Panopticon set to get green light
 

Just to cheer up 'all our yesterdays crowd', Cabinet are to give the Panopticon project the green light next week as outlined in a two page report.

I am a working class lad with working class mates who works very hard, both in a factory and as a working class resident on the council. I dont need lessons on grafting, factory work, long hours, gravyard shift in pie factories, part time work, 14 hour shifts, unemployment, paying taxes, low wages, redundancy, bully bosses, making ends meet, doing overtime to pay the bills or rubbing shoulders with other real people. I've got those medals thank you and if you actually knew me you'd know it.

So what is it that makes you want to insult me, my opinions? Do you want me stop expressing an opinion? Or just leave Accy Web altogether? There are other residents on here who have a similar view to me so should I stop having that view because I stood for election? Is my view an unacceptable view?

Whats the point, or what fun is there, of visiting Accy Web when so many people feel at ease running other people down personally?

Please study the quote below and consider that with the bully boy answer you wrote?

Re: Panopticon set to get green light
 

The point is that by making the alternative point of view available and continuing to stand up for it it creates a balanced site. I've had tons of hassle because of my views on the Panopticon and it drives me mad too but it's no reason to give up. As I've said before there are a few people on here who are bullies and insist that they have the only correct view on some subjects but we all know that is not true.

Please don't give up coming on to the site as I think a lot of us have learnt more about the inner workings of the council because of you than we would have known about without.

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While I am saddened that the Panopticon is set to get the green light........I think I always knew it would. I feel the consultation was just a paper execise.

Graham, on the other point that you make.......I don't think you should stop coming onto Accyweb.......it is always good to get another viewpoint........I may not agree with your point of view, but you are still entitled to have it. I have learned a lot from the information you have posted and that can't be a bad thing.
I also get the feeling that you are passionate about your local politics. To your own self be true!

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Granted. But nothing gets learnt from people who have a closed mind, fixed agenda and who cant handle others opinion. The threat of cranks doesnt worry me, however I dont want to stir up more. One guy was sectioned under the MHA last year [what was worrying was he wasnt worried by me, just every other councillor]. I caught him outide my house and went to speak to him. And my car has been damaged. 'The Voice of Reason'!!!

Heres a quick rundown on what has happened. cabinet will make the decison. Thats 7 Tories as elected by majority by the people. The Council is the cabinet and the Cabinet is Tory. Labour Councillors ARE NOT the Council, they are the official opposition.

There have been 5 seperate resident meetings to my knowledge and no more. FoAH, Peel & Barnfield Area Council, Huncoat Area Council, Civic Trust and MPA Public Meeting. All the residents there have voted in overwhelmingly in favour. Probably 95:5 if not higher. The no voters are a myth. We knocked on 4000 voters doors and the Panopiticons never came up once. Most strange if you read Accy Web!!!!

Its not local money. Its outside money. FoAH [Thats residents and myself] have done the backbone of work to determine whether it was worth it or not and that work has been taken and is the core of the report. Cabinet itself has done little over 18 months so the debate has been poor/uninformed. The majority of the cabinet are in favour and seeing as PB has seen the Tories slide electorally he has less room for manouevre against cabinet members in favour. PB has used it as a poitical football as well to attack Labour rather than investigate and conclude the best for the people of Hyndburn.

The Pals never used the trenches. They were there in the 40's to stop Jerry landings by plane and for soldiers to train. So I am stold back in 1914 it was Accy Golf Club, you can still see what appears to be the greens for Golf from higher up. There is nothing natural about the type of ecology there, eg the horrible conifer plantation. Decidous woodland and pasture grasses exist at higher altitude only a few hundred yards away. However what is there now is spolit by a grafiti covered shelter and worn monument, all accessed by ad hoc paths which are eroding the site. Some of the early schemes would have removed that shelter.

The cabinet has promised itself to unlock funding for the coppice. We shall see. Funding is there and I would expect it around £300k plus Remade over 5 years. Remade have said No Panopticon no funding. Panopticon and the remade programme strats 2006. They are taking lead from the Regional Park who now have only £600k left from £5m as they have only 18 months to run. The Regional Park £5m was only got on the promise that investment would attract outside visitors money, ie part of a economic regeneration plan and path improvments alone did cut the mustard and hence the £5m bid would have failed.

Anyway it is now the Coppice Project and the Panopticon itself is barely mentioned. I believe public opinion has swung Conservative thinking in favour.Possibly again another reflection of the wider held view of the public rather than the lobbyists who over played their importance and lost ground by narrowing their arguments to their own agenda rather than take on board some of the things said by those in favour.

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Graham...you may have knocked on doors.....I didn't see anyone from any of the political persuasions......and it was not because I was out........I am retired. I was hoping for a chance to discuss local issues including the panopticon.

You, yourself sound a bit dubious about funding for the upkeep of the pathways (we shall see).

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Where do you live? I'll come around, you tell me why not?

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I think we've already queried exactly what the trenches are/were and when they were created. I don't know anything about a golf club but would be fascinated to find out. I guess that makes me one of the "all our yesterdays club" because I'm fascinated by history including local history.

I totally agree with you about the hideous conifers. It's a pity we couldn't have had a vote on them before they were planted and then possibly people who understood the natural flora of the area could have raised their objections and possibly prevented the planting, but then again maybe it would have just gone ahead any way.

I think the shelter should stay and be improved because the way the weather is around here that's the most useful thing up there.

Are you saying that the funding actually exists? Up to now we were under the impression that this was some hypothetical possibility depending on the attracting of sponsors following the creating of a panopticon.

I am willing to be persuaded if anything I hear carries enough weight to convince me that my opinion is wrong or misguided. If for instance a panopticon were to be offered that I felt would enhance the area then I wouldn't simply object to it because it's a panopticon. I would prefer it to be located elsewhere than on the Coppice but from what you say it doesn't sound like there's much chance of that.

It doesn't ssurprise me that the subject never came up when canvassing door to door. When I've mentioned the panopticon to people a lot have looked blank and said "what?" or "what's a panopticon?"

Incidentally no-one came round here either.

Re: Panopticon set to get green light
 

Graham, I, like Margaret P. enjoy reading your points of view on the accyweb and should you ever decide to stop your input, it would make the accyweb that much poorer.......HOWEVER! You say: "But nothing gets learnt from people who have a closed mind, fixed agenda and who cant handle others opinion."

This is certainly true but bear in mind that YOU have made sweeping statements about the politics of Accywebbers in general! It is your privilege as an individual to argue on-line with another member...but to paint all and sundry with the same brush is sure to antagonise.

I totally agree with Staggeringman in that the Panopticon should not be put on the coppice nor anywhere else. You say: "Its not local money. Its outside money" and that is my argument!

I care not for your politics, you are outside my influence BUT I detest quango's that spend £millions of pounds throughout the country (and YES, it IS our money!) and pocket vast fortunes into their own pockets for doing so. Quango's are made up of wealthy egotistical prats that are urged to find reasons to squander vast sums of money on useless projects and try to convince locals that they are SO lucky to have this project thrust upon them!

You also say: "We knocked on 4000 voters doors and the Panopiticons never came up once. Most strange if you read Accy Web!!!!".....not strange at all considering the ratio of Accywebbers to the population of Hyndburn, and perhaps the population in general are more worried about loutish behaviour, lack of medical treatment on the N.H.S, and other general issues. Just because the Panopticon is not on their "crucial" worry list, It does not automatically give it the "green light"

One more comment from you, : "However what is there now is spolit by a grafiti covered shelter and worn monument, all accessed by ad hoc paths which are eroding the site. Some of the early schemes would have removed that shelter."
Can YOU or anyone else guarantee that finance will be found for the upkeep and security of the Panopticon? Of course not! What ever is put there will be ruined within just a few years. THIS is why locals (and most accy webbers) object to our money being spent!

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I also said that I am not always right. Your right, sweeping statements are dangerous territory when used in the absolute.

Outside money local money, still tax payers money. I am not saying your wrong but your perspective implies no difference. tax payer loses. however hyndburns fortunes will vary. our money will get spent, just somewhere else. Quangos are a Tory Tony thing. Maggie loved em... keeps the Labour Town Hall fiefdoms at bay. Tony loves em...keeps the Labour Town Hall fiefdoms at bay. Locally Nigel Rix loved em... keeps the Labour Town Hall fiefdoms at bay and Tories love em [cept PB] ...keeps the Labour Town Hall fiefdoms at bay. Next quango to appear, stock transfer...

Your right. Thats why the public meetings were important in gauging opinion.

I am tempted to favour No. No upkeep money beyond a small allocation in the funding. Two things come from that. If you run away from everything thats looks a problem, you'll get nowhere. Thats one danger sign. Secondly if it gets status, then it should receive, be able to more easily get funding eg Nature Reserve. In life hard work and a willingness to progress is the gateway to success.

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I totally agree with that statement but would like to add a little quote to it

"Speed is not as important as the direction in which you travel"

Before we set off at full-tilt lets be sure we know where we're heading and that it's really where we want to go.

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Thats fine. I accept that. I feel we have come full circle. I said PB was using it as a political football and not making th effort to look into it. So we have wasted 18 months best part of and some critics have got hot and bothered and all of us have only got half the facts. Peter Clarke is the Councils man on the ELP. The hub of this program.

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This is one issue that concerns me too, and as you all know I'm in favour of the project. However, what worries me most is the not so veiled threats from members of Accy Web who have threatened to dig it up after it was built. We all worry about vandals and the bikers that use the coppice could well rip into it it but from the sounds of it there are plans afoot to spoil it from within these threads. So Busman747 can you guarantee that no harm will come to it from so called respectable members of society who have an axe to grind?

Re: Panopticon set to get green light
 

not in favour of panoptican ideas that have been given so far,at the same time not against it.think you should remain on accy web,aint got you down as a quitter. i don't think i run you down,maybe you do,i run your opinions down if i don't agree thats nowt personal an i would hope you see it like that,i also praise opinions if i agree. thats nowt personal either,iv'e only met about 3 people on accy web so its not a colusion of any sort,i'm not a god,but i call a spade a spade. not always correct-but who is?think when people can't give opinions were in the old soviet union.

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Why should I Purplelass? I am a mere resident exercising my right to agree/disagree with local and central funding. I do not want the Panopticon built but if (or should I say when) it is built, I wouldn't hesitate to phone the police if I witnessed vandalism caused by yobs or Accy webbers although those comments that you call "veiled threats" were taken by me as tongue-in-cheek.

Having met the majority of local Accywebbers, I can't think of one that is likely to find the time to go to the coppice with vandalism in mind. Perhaps you could indicate which villains-to-be you are thinking of?

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[QUOTE=Graham Jones]
. We knocked on 4000 voters doors and the Panopiticons never came up once. Most strange if you read Accy Web!!!! I think you`ll find that on Gayle Knights last posting before the election she said that debate on the panopticon was being put on the back burner because it was`nt an election issue. Next thing we hear, the project has ben passed!!
]

Re: Panopticon set to get green light
 

What about this ?

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lol

to be honest my mind is been put at rest in the knowledge that todays younger generation will soon destroy anything put on the coppice

hell if i see them doing it and they scarper off i will call them back and tell them to continue :)

Re: Panopticon set to get green light
 

[QUOTE=Uncle Mick]The project hasn't been passed yet. Things were held off because of the election and now the election is over we can proceed again. There is a cabinet meeting due at the end of May when the Panopticon is on the agenda (I don't know why but it has been moved forward because I was under the impression that it was due to go on to the June agenda). Anyway, the general mood is now that certain Councillors who were saying no, no, no to the scheme have now decided to support it if it can be classed as a Coppice redevelopment scheme and the emphasis taken off the Panopticon.

I think that's why the general feeling is that it will get the green light - it hasn't yet and could still be turned down by the cabinet. Also, it has not got planning permission so still has to be approved at that stage.

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[QUOTE=Gayle Knight Anyway, the general mood is now that certain Councillors who were saying no, no, no to the scheme have now decided to support it if it can be classed as a Coppice redevelopment scheme and the emphasis taken off the Panopticon.

[/QUOTE]
The emporers new clothes then...

Re: Panopticon set to get green light
 

Coppice redevelopment scheme

so basicly its a classic case of a different name but the same old crap..?

Re: Panopticon set to get green light
 

wow wow wow, calm down there... why would off roaders want to play on a few lousy bumps at the top of the coppice.. aint gonna happen, I have to step in to defend off roaders as I am one and we respect the enviroment and DO NOT go around off-roading anywhere where we shouldn't. We have permission from farmers when we go off roading up there... Sorry about that, but we are getting a lot of bad press these days and I aint about to just let it go on in here as well.. :)

Re: Panopticon set to get green light
 

Graham, why don't you join in with other non political type threads? Most of your postings almost invite some people to disagree with you.

Re: Panopticon set to get green light
 

NOT EVERYONE GOES ON YOUR THREADS GRAHAM some are the silent few, but do have OPINIONS, please stop trying to upset everyone //// i for one am NOT impressed/

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[QUOTE=Gayle Knight]Hi Gayle. Thats right, though the report is dated the 9th May and it is the Coppice Redevelopment Project as said. It could still be turned down however. There won't be any political oppostion to it.

Re: Panopticon set to get green light
 

apologies...

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Re: Panopticon set to get green light
 

I agree with the suggestion by Purple Lass and WillowtheWhisp? who are suggesting that problems of housing, poverty, economy are more important. I did not agree with the sidelining of the Councils Budget in March for debate on this project, though some posters disagreed at the time.

However some things act as a statement, a catalyst for regneration and whether this will who knows. When I asked there had been little research on this.

It is interesting that Gayle suggests it was shelved for the election. Presumedly because it was devisive and a potential vote loser and not a vote winner either way.

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The more I read of this act of perfidious folly the more I am appalled. Is this to become Accy's Iraq? Is the council about to pursue a policy, against huge public opposition, involving large expenditure of resources, ignoring far greater priorities, with little opposition or debate, on the basis of false or suspect documentation, such as the dossier dated 9th May, as quoted above yesterday by Councillor Jones.

Unfortunatly, today is 9th May.

What is going on here? Could someone please expain on what basis local political debate was suspended for the duration of the election campaign? We elect councillors to do their job as councillors, not to go hanging on the the coat tails of their two-bit parliamentary candidate as they do their once-every-four-years rounds. Not that it has been resumed, we are suddenly finding that "Over-my-dead-body" Britcliffe and his mob have turned and this loonatic scheme is going ahead. What has been going on behind closed doors? What have we not been told?

It looks like the people of Hyndburn are about to get a first-degree stitch up.

Re: Panopticon set to get green light
 

red lights green lights making me dizzy lol

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Re: Panopticon set to get green light
 

told you it made me dizzy lol

Re: Panopticon set to get green light
 

You seem to be missing a signifiant point here Purple Lass, and you're not the only one to have made this mistake.

AccyWeb is not a political party or organised club. It is a group of widely varied individuals who have simply come together from all walks of life to air their views and discuss topics of interest regarding the Hyndburn area as well as other non-related matters. No one person can or does speak on behalf of anyone else. Busman can therefor no more guarantee the actions of other AccyWeb members than you can.

Incidentally, who says that all or indeed any members of AccyWeb are respectable? ;)

Re: Panopticon set to get green light
 

just got to say LOVE the way you put that!

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Ho Ho Ho...........it looks like the good people of Haslingden are about to get an early Christmas present from their northern neighbours in Accy. Yep....they've gone and got themselves a Panopticon, namely the Flying Saucer variant so resoundly given the boot by HBC earlier this year. I'm sure we'll all miss what we never had, don't you?:D

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Pity it found a home it could have come up here to Bonnybridge they are into flying saucers.

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Yep, it's true! It's being built at Top O'Slate in Haslingden.

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Was reading the Rossendale free press yesterday and everyone is kicking up fuss about this and dont want it to go ahead, seemed a bit familiar for some reason :)

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Seems like this idea is a bit of a Jonah and nobody wants it.

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No, one person is kicking up a fuss - and she used to work for the Council and has an axe to grind!

The Council and the majority of the locals are very much behind it!

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I just had a look at the RFP story. The person reported as kicking up the fuss is called Andrew. Thats a funny name for a she. Still, they must be funny down there to want this crock of rubbish overlooking their town..

Re: Panopticon set to get green light
 

Not getting drawn into this Tealeaf

It's out of Hyndburn, it's all been done legitimately, they have had a lot of consultation but it's impossible to force people to read stuff they're not interested in, the Council is fully behind it and supportive.

Re: Panopticon set to get green light
 

Its away from Accy so thats all that matters.

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There isnt one its not exactly high on the list of things to do at the moment.

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There's a thing, now I recall. Is there any word on the oceans of development cash that these things were supposed to attract to the area?Has Rossendale seen an upsurge in tourism and job creation yet? Are the glitterati abandoning places like Milan and Bilbao and making a bee-line for Rossendale yet?

Or were we right to say "NOT IN OUR BACKYARD"?

The Council may very well be behind the Panopticon, but we seasoned residents of Hyndburn are all too familiar with the enthusiasms of local councils and, sadly, what they inevitably lead to.