Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

After reading Gayles' letter in the Observer........I read further and noted that HBC councillors had voted themselves a massive 26% rise in expenses........I wonder if PB has been advising Time/Tiny/Granville on their business practices.....!

Oh, and Gayle...well said.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

And Britcliffe has hit the roof because some, including Graham Jones, (who has gone very quiet, and I don't know why , he has nothing to hide) have objected to the rise in the light of the councils financial situation want to freeze any rises. \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\well done Graham.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Any chance of someone scanning Gayle’s letter so we exiles can keep up to speed?

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

well said gayle!! Doug I don't have a scanner but the letter is as follows:


Sir - I was amused and a little angered by a quote in your paper last week from Councillor Peter Britcliffe.
He said "Councillors do not have good records of running businesses which is why we are letting the professionals do it."
What is the council if it is not a business with a £10M budget? What else is the council elected for but to run the business of Hyndburn?
Perhaps this goes some way to explaining why our council run by the conservatives is continually in debt, if it is run by people who are not professional enough to run it.
Laughably this was Councillor Britcliffe's excuse for hiving off yet more of the borough's assets.
Perhaps it is time we elected some councillors who were capable of running businesses while there is still something to run - Yours etc..

GAYLE KNIGHT


Right thats me done I have typers cramp!!!!!

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

****** the cramp......Well said Gayle. Free drinks tomorrow I should think.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Cheer's for that Harwood..............:)

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

excuse me doug but what about thank you red for typing it all out just for you!!??????? :mad:

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

oops sorry doug you thanked me whilst I was typing my whinge!!! Please forgive me :o

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

No...............:p

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

ok don't forgive me then, I'll remember that next time you want to know about something in the accy observer, ha ;)

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

ooooo I spotted Graham Jones reading this thread but yet no reply???? Come on Graham tell us what you think of Gayle's letter and the allowance's issue??

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

:o Sorry, I forgive you Harwood.













:p Bitch....

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

ouch, if you are attending tomorrow night then I'm going to sit in opposite corner and this bitch is gonna scowl at you all night :p

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

No just keeping quiet... been reading most threads, particularly the one about Dave.

I would like to add that I did speak at Leaders Policy Board. I stood in that day [the only time I have attended] and listened. David Myles and Peter Britcliffe did all the talking. Peter then asked me my view after about half an hour!] just so everyone was signed up and ****ing in the same pot and I said exactly this;

"I don't know why you are asking me if I agree, you have 20 years experience plus in politics and very well know the Labour Party is a democratic party and decisions are made by all members, not just [the 3] Labour members around this table. I will be taking these proposals back to Labour Group and you will no doubt get a response by the next [Leaders Board] meeting. This is not about my opinion, its about the Labour Groups opinion".

Cllr Britcliffe's responce [because David Myles was in favour] was sarcastically to say;
"Oh we have got a Labour Leadership contest going on then haven't we"....

He then went into a long dialogue with David Myles and that was that.

I got 2.9% through Amicus at work. Staff at HBC got 2.5%. The total bill will be an extra £50,000 - £60,000 per year from somewhere. And yes I know Dial a Ride was subsequently refunded after a row but 12 other orgainsations were not including Mid Pennine Arts but the point was the initial budget cuts were as a result of mis-management and only corrected from elsewhere.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

glad to hear you give your side Graham :thumbsup:

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

You won't be sat on your own I'm sure................:) Sorry, I was only joking.......

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

<<<He that's my first drink taken care of!!!>>>

Oops I think I just said that out loud :eek:

All forgiven doug, I'm looking forward to a good laugh tomorrow night and then by the end of the night you will prob be able to understand my kind of humour :)

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

I agreed with it. Gayles was a good letter.

Basically Council Housing has gone down the tube because it has been run like Leeds United and not a business, ditto the Market Hall and anything else. Its not that we [residents of Hyndburn] are not capable. Cllr Britcliffe has kept out of Globe Enterprise's [just] and thats making a healthy profit for the Hyndburn public [as well as jobs, regen etc..]. Mind you he was pushing to shut that down and sell it off some months back.

There are loads of people capable in Hyndburn, we just elect people as Cllr Hamilton said "who are self serving". Thats why demcracy is in crises.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

The thing about the allowances is this. The basic is what all 35 councillors get. The leader gets a bonus 4 times that ON TOP of that basic [so x5 in all]. Thats £4,000 basic plus on top £16,000 extra. Total £20,000 plus expenses like travel, child minding etc..

The duputy leaders get an ON TOP bonus of 2x the basic + basic. The 6 committee chairs get 1.5x BONUS. The 5 vice chairs get 0.5x BONUS. The Opposition leader gets 2x BONUS and opposition deputies 0.5x BONUS. Area Council chairs get 0.65x BONUS. Cabinet members get 1.5x BONUS. All on top of the £4,000 basic. Missed a couple out somewhere.

The outside body that made the recomendations made up of a solicitor, an acountant, a business man - 5 people in all - suggested [after an indepth review] a rise of just 2.95%. Obviously the independent panels views were thrown out in favour of a 26% rise.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

The Labour Group itself was split, 70:30 against the rise.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

thanks graham for your well put responses

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

I am not sure who deducted Karma in this thread in respect of the fact that:

Councillors vote themse... 29-07-2005 18:11 Children read this forum

If I offended you have my apology. But I can assure you that there is far worse said that is by far, more offensive and corrupting. However, I take you point and accept you criticism in the manner you intended. Which I assume was constructive.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Any suggestions?

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

oooh, think I've started something here...!

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

[QUOTE=Graham Jones]I agreed with it. Gayles was a good letter.

Basically Council Housing has gone down the tube because it has been run like Leeds United and not a business, ditto the Market Hall and anything else. Its not that we [residents of Hyndburn] are not capable. Cllr Britcliffe has kept out of Globe Enterprise's [just] and thats making a healthy profit for the Hyndburn public [as well as jobs, regen etc..]. Mind you he was pushing to shut that down and sell it off some months back.



Graham is this why Joe McIntyre can say that HBC have turned their finances around in another article in this weeks Observer.....?

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

People that decided to stand for election, knew the allowances they were entitled to before the election. To then start moaning that it doesn't equate with the mimimum wage, as Peter Britcliffe did is disgraceful.

Very heartening to see two of the youngest members of the Council standing up and publicly stating their opposition to this massive hike of 26%.

Hardly cutting our cloth accordingly, when the Borough is still in such financial dire straits no matter what recent spin they try to attach to it.

Well done Cllrs. Hamilton and Jones for speaking out.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

It’s better than inertia Margaret. If we’re going to have a debate it may as well serve a purpose. Having said that it would be an advantage if I knew what I was talking about……..

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

I just saw the article and thought it was a huge hike. Especially as the Council have been is such dire straits recently.......except according to Joe Mc Intyre......they are on track again now......but they have no 'family silver'left to hock.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Think that comment is a little unfair graham, council house maintenance, and lack of has been a problem in hyndburn for years, not just in the past 2/3 years. BwD have the same problem as have all other local authorities and BwD is labour controlled is'nt it.

Not had the chance to read gayles letter yet, but I'm sure there will be some interesting comments in there.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

I applaud Graham and Councillor Hamilton for having the guts to speak up and for telling it like it is in the real world.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Just a note, when election time comes round again next time, remember this.

We voted for them.

Strange this wasn't done just before the last election.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

The letter is more or less the same as the one I posted on here last week - you've got to laugh.. or you'd cry - thread.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Watch out for mine in next weeks Observer........Mr 'It Really Makes My Blood Boil' Angry.

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Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

The grabbing, incompetent, self-serving, self-satisfied, smug, pompous, inefectual, overpaid, underworked, conceited, sanctimonious..B*ST*RDS!

This has to be the final straw. I cannot believe that they have the nerve or the bare faced cheek!

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Go on Margaret give us a preview.
Funny though, you can reply to an observer article on line, had a few wines one sat night, went on to observer web site, saw an article on the old fav. "the wheelie" and sent a reply, got a right B******* off the wife when she opened the observer the week after and looked at letters to the editor :D

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington]
Hi Margaret, I think there are two seperate issues here. Joe McIntyre was refering to this years [current] account only.

We keep overspending and this years first quarter April-July ledger was showing a predicted year end overspend of 2% [£300,000] but he was saying that was not a lot in the big scheme of things and that measures had been taken so we finished level at the end of the year. ....And it refered to revenue [current account] spending only, not large receipts/big projects monies which are seperate [Capital Spending] or Council House spending which is also seperate [HRA]

My point was different and is about the general policies over years. They [Joe McIntyre and co.] might have balanced the books but a lot of what was spent was wasted, including non council monies which the council spends. Such as European and Government assistance to poor areas grants. ie Poor priorities, even poorer management and poor outcomes in general.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

That's what I like Graham........a straight answer........It may be that I have misconstrued what is reported in the Observer......or it may just be my naivete in the finer points of local politics. I can always count on you to educate me.......thankyou.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

A think thats a fair point and opens up the debate a bit. So to respond I would make this point.

Under George Slynns Labour and Peter Britcliffes Tories, £m's of waste have been found. That has had a knock on effect as Council Housing has been milked to pay for other Council policies. Central services [in the Council like payroll] have always overcharged the Council Housing Account [HRA].

Council House sales have not gone back to help 'Our Council House Business' but again diverted to prop up councillors other big spending policies elsewhere. Rents have not been based on any business sense of rent vs repairs/maintenance but panic over council house votes.

Council Housing was NOT run as a business and it wasted £m's. eg concentrating on responsive repairs instead of capital spending. Of being too socially responsible and footing huge debt and damage bills. Upgrading Council Housing to the of £ms without any plan.. eg £6m spent on Bolton Avenue in 95 and in 2003, we demolished 49 houses as unfit. That £6m debt is still being payed off over 40 years and hence affect the capacity to keep up with repairs now.

And many authorities persued similar policies regardless of political allegances.

Anyway, I'll get pulled for thread wander.... so back to allowances..

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Graham it is my fault......I caused the thread to wander, but it all seemed to be in the same shire...if you see what I mean (finances and all that).

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

I applause you Graham for standing uop for what you believe, Britcliffe is making a fortune out of his position as it is and a 26% rise would be a disgusting travesty of justice for the council leader to take out of a failing council expences in excess of £30,000. Stick to your guns mate and block what you can or this bloody idiot will vote himself a knighthood and the freedom of the borough.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Can't see any reason at all parks why you should have lost karma but people should not hide. I they think your karma should be deducted they should say why and put a name to it.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

oops sorry doug if you calling me a b*tch led to you losing karma (and calling me that was taken in the fun way that you had intended). It is annoying when they don't leave their name but I have to say I would like to see more people leaving their name when they give it too!!!

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

it must be bad if its got AB swearing :eek:

just one more thing to add to the list of things that makes me resent paying my council tax and what makes it worse is that the same idiots will be voted in next time

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Not necessarily - our Council is a split Council 18-17 to the Conservatives. The way the Council is run is a cabinet system which means that the party in power - in this case Conservatives - allocate portfolios to some of their Councillors i.e. Brian Walmsley has the portfolio for Culture and Leisure. This effectively means that the borough is run by only half of the elected Councillors. Yes, the opposition do have a voice and they can work effectively within their own ward but essentially they are unable to actually change decisions and influence policy.

The Labour party isa younger party - not such a retirement party as the Conservatives is. So, you don't have to vote the same idiots in, all you need to do is swing the balance of the Council towards Labour and allow them to manage it effectively.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

just out of curiosity how the hell did they justify such a high percentage of a pay rise 26% when most companies i know of give as little as 2% each year to employees who actualy work for a living and in some cases they get nothing at all

if 26% is classed as keeping up with the rate of inflation then a lot of employees are getting shafted by their employers

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

I know, it's ridiculous isn't it. Most people would be grateful for 2% these day. Although admittedly the basic rate for being a Councillor is only £4,000, after the increase which is not a lot. If you want to attract younger people to become Councillors you have to pay them a decent amount to make up for the loss of other income through going to meetings etc. It is one of the reasons why we have so many ageing Councillors because they've all retired from their day jobs. I'm not defending the 26% hike, just trying to play devils advocate and understand the rationale.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

On top of the increase, have they not scrapped the rule where they had to attend so many meeting for nothing. Don't they also get out of pocket expenses on top of the £4k.

There seems to be a %age of retired persons on the council, so they are making a nice little living out of getting on as many committees as possible. Are most of the meetings not at night?

At the end of the day, what is the reason for becoming a councillor, to earn a living or to help the community.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

I do agree with you that the purpose of being a Councillor is not to make money, it's to work for the community but the point remains that the council is going to be full of people who have money already and time on their hands - retired people - if they don't at least recompense councillors who lose part of their income from their day jobs.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Which post didn't they like?

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

I'm not saying that retired people aren't capable of representing us, just that the council should reflect the population of the town and shouldn't be weighted towards retired people just becaause they are the only ones who can afford to do it.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Be good though eh !! think there would be a great outcry from certain councillors :D Serious the council should be made up of a good cross section of age groups, youth and experience.

If there were an age limit, then I would not be able to stand for council.........shame :eek:

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

I don’t agree that age limits should be put on public posts…..If local councils are to be representative of the community then we must have representation across the age group of the community. I agree that too many wealthy people get themselves involved for the wrong reasons; all too often councils are treated as private clubs with jobs for the boy’s. But all too often it’s us that put them there.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Thank you Doug.
Fair comment, any representative committee, council should be made up of a good cross section of age groups,backgrounds, and all should be given a chance to have their say at meetings.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

There are several arguments here. I cut my hours at work by 10 and lose £4,500 gross per annum [plus opportunities to work o/t at x1.5] So call it £5,000. I get £3,200 allowance so I am out of pocket. I do about 20+ hours a week for the Council. Its not particulalry hard work either, lets face it listening to residents concerns on a sunny day beats a production line... It is worked out that councillors do an average of 16 hours a week at minimum wage and that comes to just over £4,000. Hence doing away with the 25% voluntary rule justifies the move from £3,200 to £4,000 keeping to the minimum wage. Thats the pro argument.

Now the anti-argument. Every £ spent on allowances comes from somewhere else. The Council is massivly in debt and making severe front line cuts. The Council is badly run so this is a reward for poor perfomance. The 16 hours are not a normal 16 hours job, quite contrary, they are by comparison easy. Hyndburn has Britains youngest councillor and letting a secret out, Labour have 3 or 4 more lined up to see if they can get selected/elected so the wealthy retired argument does not stand up either. The minimum wage argument falls by the wayside because half of all councillors get special on top allowances which have all risen by 26%. Only half are getting the full 16 hour minimum wage £4,000. The other half are much further up the pay scale than the minimum wage. The minimum wage also falls because 1) you dont enter the Council for money and a job 2) Some councillors dont do 16 hours, or anywhere near and also get speciall extra allowances. 3) Hyndburn BC can never ever pay a living wage to attract in councillors, it will always be for civic pride

Voting yourself - with no opposition - a pay rise from the pockets of residents grossly disproportionate to their income growth is immoral. Picking July's meeting to bury bad news cuz it is furthest from the next election and a lot of people are on holiday and papers sales down is deceitful. An outside independent body of 5 members recomended 2.95% - with no justification for 26% in their opinion. That report was binned. It will cost £50,000-£60,000 pa and after tax and NI probably some £20-£25,000 will simply go to Gordon Brown. Just about the amount saved in tax when hiving on the management of Town Halls and Civic Theatres in to the private voluntary unaccountable profit motivated sector.

I now need to decide how I wont profit from this increase... Option 1 dont take it and leave it to be spent by the Council on services. Option 2 take it [be taxed and receive half] and give it to the Labour Party election fund until PB is removed??? Option 3 - as 2 but give it to charity.

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Option 2 sounds the best idea, Graham, that way you can benefit the prospective candidates for the next election.

Will other councillors be as noble as you?

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Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Just hang on here. I may have misinterpreted what your saying Graham, but I don’t believe that an individual should lose income in the course of serving the community in this manner. You shouldn’t be seen as volunteers working for expenses. Working for the principle of Civic pride is all very nice but its business acumen and social foresight that’s needed to grow communities. If you are to respond to the needs of your community you need to be viable and if that means accepting an income that covers your losses and allows you to develop as a councillor so be it. We need integrity, openness and compassion from our representatives not martyrs. If the income is there and it can be used to fight for what you believe in then use it…….If I have got this wrong the ignore me.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

I cut my hours an agreement with my employer because I was worn out all the time... I have a full time contract so any extra hours [when I was not doing council business] was paid at normal 1.5x rate [yes some people only get 1.25x and salaried staff get nothing].

IN answer to Doug's very good point, many councillors receive a top up allowance so for their 16 hours [if they actually do them] a week they now get £10,500. I still maintain, going listening to officers, chipping in the odd idea, going back to residents and listening what they want and making a few phone calls is NOT work as I know it.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

I think that it is about time that we had a listing of who claims what when it comes to allowances and expenses.

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Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

I haven't seen the paper this week but the high earner wouldn't be the Idiot-in-Chief would it?

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Spot on A-B........

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

There are 9 councillors over £7k, a nice little earner for them and add their pensions to that not a bad income.
Our own Graham J has claimed a reasonable figure just over £3k. The councillor with the £1 claim must be a very public spirited person, or it's a printing error

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

The £1 claim for Malcolm Pritchard is not a printing error. I know the man, he does not believe in being paid for what he does. He is the local councillor in my area, i have always found him to be helpful and very approachable

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.
 

If I tried for that kind of pay rise the boss would think I had gone cookoo. The voters gave them a job so can it be removed the same way. Voters should diside the rise given and if that ain't allowed make it performance related (like mine) were goals and objectives are set and your pay increase depends on how well you did along with attendance.

Re: Councillors vote themselves a 26% rise.