Intolerance
 

After a few days rolling it round my head and what has been happening lately i decided to take the plunge on this subject. There seems to be intolerance on a scale that is growing and is starting to eat away at everything and anyone regardless of who they are. Grego posted the other night in reply to the religious intolerance I myself see up here yet it is creeping in everywere. We have seen it with banning piglet, the meat stinks threads for 2 examples. Even the euthanasia one was getting hot for a while.

We need to learn to be tolerent of others and their all but they to need to learn to be tollerent of what we believe. I see people fighting because they are of the wrong religion or the wrong football team which is to me stupid. I have watched and learned from this also the fact that being English did not go down to well at first. The attacks were at the english in general but as i was there i got the verbal kicking. Now I must admit I laugh at it and let them have their own opinion and they let me have mine. Mutual understanding wins on that count.

All it takes is a little time to listen and understand. There is too much agrravation as it is because people do not listen or understand or they do not want to. We are a multi cultural multi ethnical multi lingual society so now maybe its time to start learning about each outher and the beliefs they hold. If we show the way then others might follow and if they choose not too at least we can hold are heads high because at least we tried. Doesnt matter if christian hindu muslim athiest vegitarian meat love pro life anti whatever we have to try because if we dont society will fallinto little cliques based on beliefs and ultimately damage it beyond repair.

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I know what you mean Spuggie......it seems as if everyone has an axe to grind over something or other. But, don't you think that the media does a lot of pot stirring....?
They take seemingly innocuous situations and whip them up into great big issues.....things that we shouldn't even give a second thought to.

The posts, well.... they are like any discussion. It sometimes gets a bit heated, but everyone deserves to have their say.....and while I may not always agree with what people on here say......I would defend their right to be heard. In most cases it is just a load of hot air anyway. Live and let live should be our motto.

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The other thing about being able to post threads which seem a bit contentious is, it allows you to get things off your chest...and sometimes once you have read what other people have to say it gives the issue a different complexion.

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Could I just ask, in what way did you think the meat stinks thread was intolerent?

Was it intolerent because the person that started it doesn't seem to be able to tolerate meat eaters, or was it intolerent because people like me will leave such folk to starve to death if that is their wish so long as they don't try to convert me or perhaps the more vulnerable and eaily swayed youth that come on here?
If it was the former then I can understand what your saying, if however it is the latter, then surely the playing field has been set against the 'normal' members of society, you know, those of us that want to get on with our own lives within the law without idiots forcing their views down our necks.

By the way anyone got any idea why the 'meat stinks' thread was closed? expat was proving to be the first veggie I've ever met that has the strength to maintain a sense of humour!
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It might have been closed because it wasn't going anywhere.....and it was getting a bit heated. (I quite like a hot thread).

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Less it was the former concerning the meat thread. Everyone is entitled to their own views but there seems to be in the country in general a one sided field to which we have to bow or be damned. That kind of intolerence burns me especially if religiously motovated. If people want to convert that is their chioce unless forced upon them.

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Spuggie this is a good thread, I've let my feelings known in other threads, I believe in live and let live, the extremists well thats a different matter. I think most people just get on with their own thing and wouldn't preach to others, and I do believe that its the media that stirs up trouble. The PC brigade, well, they have gone too far its ridiculous, in our house, Ellie has a blackboard and a Wendy house!

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By trying to appear tolerant we (and by that I'm generalising) have become less tolerant. We have to be so careful about what we say so that we don't offend that we end up patronising people.

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Utter B@~llocks Spuggie.Life just doesn't and isn't working that way.It will never be 'mutual' because they choose to have their 'cliques' and not integrate.They hold the Ace card because you say one word against them you are racist when in fact THEY are the racists.Soon we'll be getting arrested for waving the St Georges Flag or for wearing an England shirt.

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damn or be damned. This is my country and nobody: black white, yellow or whatever is gonna tell me what i can or cant do in my own country. Masybe i've got the wrong idea on this thread but, when i see jobs being advertised as speaking Urdu or Punjabi a necessity I think bollox, this is our country and anybody who WANTS or NEEDS to move to uor country should be willing or able to accept our language. ways and culture. The issues of pub landlords not getting extensions for St Georges day but same pub getting extension for China day or Independence Day or St Mustapha day or whatever is ludicrous.

Our government and/or people are that afraid of upsetting foreigners that they/we are upsetting the average Joe by not allowing freedom of movement and speech by white nationals. We ARE English, we ARE here rightfully, we ARE the dominant populace and WE WILL DEFEND OUR RIGHT TO EXPRESS OUR PATRIOTISM WITHOUT PREJUDICE. If I want to fly my flag, I WILL, If I want to put pigs in my window, I WILL. And if I want to eat black jelly babies and eat their heads first then I will and be damned anybody who tells me otherwise.

Rant finished

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Wahey,standing ovation.Arise Sir Enoch (maccawozzagod) Powell.I'm impressed.

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>,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:engsmil: :engsmil: :engsmil: I AGREE ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,RULE BRITANIA

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Rule Britannia even...lol.Many years ago a man named Enoch Powell(1968) made a speech in Birmingham.If I was wearing a hat right now I would take it off in respect for this great man.He was right,he wasn't racist,HE WAS RIGHT.
http://www.sterlingtimes.co.uk/powell_press.htm

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I would just like to to say my intentions with the meat stinks forum was not to have a go at meat eaters, I was not knocking them at all,infact all I was trying to do is open up a debate, or maybe for people to repond in a positive manor.But judging from the responces out there, it seemed to me certain people just want to belittle you are respond in an agressive way.[QUOTE]Mine doesn't, it smells like pot pouirri[QUOTE]I for one would be quite prepared to eat a lovely crispy vegetarian! Because the only way they seem to be able to get rid of the wind their diet creates is to spread their cr*p around for the rest of us to endure! [QUOTE] I for one could stand my corner with these sort of people but then the forum spirals into a slanging match . and people reading the forum learn nothing, and the Moderator has to step in and close the forum which is a shame.
I have stood outside circuses holding a placard while families go in to watch a Elephant do tricks on roller skates, not once have I been aggresive towards these poeple my object just make them stop and think,you do get the aggresive people there to like'' Get job"' or" have you nothing better to do", but on the odd occasion you get someone that comes out afterwards and says " It was pitiful to see the Elephant" then all that abuse pales in significance.
I have suggested that they should open up a forum called Wanna Argue I think it would be good fun and people could vote on whose winning the Argument

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its amazing what you can do with 4 minis when you put your mind to it isnt it :D

although making an elephant roller skate is wrong i thought the only place elephants roller skated was in cartoons i had no idea some idiot had tried it with a real elephant lol

I quite agree, society needs to be more tolerant of others. However, on the point of being a multi-cultural society I must strongly disagree. We are most certainly not a multi-cultural society. The English in England still account for 92% of the population (even with the massive influx of immigrants etc this last 10 years). The bulk of the remaining population live in almost ghettoised communities if not actually ghettos (there is very little mix and interaction). Further to the point of tolerence I find it offensive in the extreme that people talk about tolerence of the English and of their beliefs! I am proud to be English, and proud of our past and I do not apologise for it. If minority groups have a problem with this whether they were born here or not then they should leave. The entire notion of the English in England having to water down being English in order to accomodate foriegners is absolutely absurd! If people wish to come here they must shut up put up or get out!

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[QUOTE=expat] [QUOTE]Mine doesn't, it smells like pot pouirri[QUOTE]I for one would be quite prepared to eat a lovely crispy vegetarian! Because the only way they seem to be able to get rid of the wind their diet creates is to spread their cr*p around for the rest of us to endure! Oh dear, expat I thought you could recognise humour obviously I was wrong I therefore wholeheartedly and fully retract the statement I posted in this thread earlier!

I promise that if you sit mumbling in your corner and ignoring me I will sit mumbling in my corner ignoring you until it come to meal times, would you prefer to be boiled or roasted?
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[QUOTE=expat]I would just like to to say my intentions with the meat stinks forum was not to have a go at meat eaters, I was not knocking them at all,infact all I was trying to do is open up a debate, or maybe for people to repond in a positive manor.But judging from the responces out there, it seemed to me certain people just want to belittle you are respond in an agressive way.[QUOTE]Mine doesn't, it smells like pot pouirri[QUOTE]I for one would be quite prepared to eat a lovely crispy vegetarian! Because the only way they seem to be able to get rid of the wind their diet creates is to spread their cr*p around for the rest of us to endure! It's called debate, most people have the intellect to argue their case, and not demand for a thread to be closed citing the fact that they are being attacked. Reading it again I still can't see where you got the idea it was a personal attack on you, like you complained to your friend the moderator, and had the thread closed. I find weakness intolerable, and feel sorry for people who can't fight their own battles, and don't have the belief of their convictions.

Perhaps you do respect other peoples views, but perhaps the next time you decide to share your's, you choose a less biased thread heading than 'meat stinks', unless you have the metal to stand and argue your case, instead of taking it all too personally and making complaints about people that disagree with you.:)

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Leave him be for now Rindy or you know who will have this thread closed down come and join me in my corner we can discuss Sunday lunch perhaps over a nice Cianti?
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Here we go again!!!!
As you know Garinda Len decided to close the thread, he wasn't promted! As for personal digs, what about the ones about punctuation,spelling and grammer??? It really is seen as bad practice in a forum, and i don't just mean this one! In my oppinion the thraed was a good debate and it got petty, lets try to avoid letting this one go the same way.
And before anybody startsto rant and rave, this is my oppinion and i'm sure were all entitled aren't we???

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I did make a joke about expat getting my name wrong and punctuation, it was called humour, he answered a question that didn't make sense and ended it with a comma like he forgot the last bit that would have concluded his argument.

I still think debate is right, and I have obvuiously struck a nerve about using friendship with the mods to close threads that I still feel was in no way a personal attack.

When people decided to discuss my personal life in threads I didn't feel the need to go bleating to get them closed, I asked for it to be moved to general tchat so more people could read my thoughts on the issue.

If all this forum is about is silly issues and not open debate, good luck.

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And that ones called PERSONAL CHOICE!!! You asked for it to be moved and discussed further, he obviously didnt want to.

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What a brilliant idea! This has my whole-hearted support. How about it, Roy????

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Looks like I opened the biggest can of worms around. I have speed read my way through and find that the posts are refecting peoples opinions with little or no sniping about what people post. Now that is tolerance and how I belive it should be in the wider world.

Willow said "I believe it's perfectly possible to tolerate another person's viewpoint and still strongly maintain your own" As soon as we forget this then it falls into a chasm of hatred and ill will and all because we have become narrow minded. Yes we can be patriotic yes we love are country and flags and footy are part of that. we have saints days so why as a multiculturel society can we not have special days for the other faiths. If the road of banning them because they are in England does that mean that as thee hub of the UK we get rid of Sts. Andrews Davids and Patricks days. This country was multicultural before the West Indian Asian and African immigarations. These peoples countries sent soldiers to die along side of the Brits in wars that were not theirs and yet we kick them at every oportunity after they helped us.

Lets live together and learn because oneday we might need the same people that are being baited. Yes they will have to learn to intigrate but that does not meen they have to give up their core beliefs. Trying to isolate them will give us the same headache the USA had up until the 1960's with the afro american section of their society.

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Spuggie, I don't think anyone is trying to stop them having their core beliefs....and they do have their own religious days too.....when Ramadan is over you will see many shops that will be wishing the ethnic community a happy Eid. I certainly have no arguments with that, but when we start calling our Christmas 'Winterfest' to supposedly protect these people from cultural insult(or alleged cultural insult) it we who are being racist against ourselves.

Frequently the ethnic incomers are given assistance over the indigent population......this is an insult to us too. I worked in the NHS and for all the time that I was in that organisation the muslim staff were given their religious festivities off.....yet I was expected to work my Christmas.....do they suppose that as a Christian my faith is less valid....? I knew when I joined the NHS that I would have to make some sacrifices...and I really didn't mind doing my share..... but then maybe muslims should be happy to do the same.
Yet, I believe we are the most tolerant nation on earth.....or maybe it is apathy.

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Excellent point I think you have hit the nail on the head there Margaret!!

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This has been a good debate bar one person and I know who you are. People like you are the reason we have these problems!

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Margaret I work for the NHS and I too have witnessed all Muslims being given Eid off work, even though it made us short staffed, last year though, their leave was restricted too (in our department anyway), it should be the same for all throughout in my opinion.

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Thats all it takes is some commen sense and comprimise.

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The nation I admire most for being so multi-cultural yet still retaining their patriotism is the Americans. They fly their star spangled banner at every opportunity without any retribution, we fly the Union Jack we get accused of supporting a far wing extremist group ... time to get a grip I think.

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The Americans learnt the hard way but now show they have matured enough to be in the position they are and proud of it. Will this country ever learn?

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Spug I mean this in a very none condescending way .......... how did they learn the hard way?

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The afro-american rights of the 50's and 60's.

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Ok cheers Spug I see were your coming from but I disagree that it was the Americans that learnt the hard way that's why I asked.

I think the minority at the time adapted to the American way of life, not the American man feeling alienated in his own country. Yes although they have black, espanic ghettos in America these minorities also fly the American flag with pride alongside their native countries flag.

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The Americans are probably the most hated country in the world...that boils down to jealousy.The United Kingdom,this little place smaller than some US states used to rule almost a third of the planet.Now we are a dumping ground for people after an easy ride.If I wave a St Georges Flag and it offends someone then great,I will carry on waving it because I know that person is jealous,jealous because whatever crap this country has turned into I will always love it.Therefore anyone who I feel is coming to this country for an easy ride I will detest.They don't love this country.

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Good point Tinks maybe we do need some of that here we are after all one nation.

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Just a note, even at it's largest the British Empire never covered a third of the globe, it was about a quarter.

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A quarter, a third, six and seven eighths or half a pound, it does not matter, it was still a hell of a big place for such a small country to govern. It was a stunning achievement. Great Britain has done more than any other nation to foster and promulgate the priciples and ideals of democracy throughout the world. Our Imperial past is something that we should be proud of.

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True to a point, but surely the future is more important?

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We need to learn from the past and the mistakes made so as to make a better future a future for all regardless of creed colour and religion. Thenand only then can we say we have succeeded in having a country without grief and intolerance. Here's to the future and I haope we succeed.

:Banane35:

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Agree with you wholeheartedly so I'll share in that drink Spug :cheers:

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AAW! this threads no fun anymore! I can't stand all this tolerance in a thread called intolerance!

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Oy Less, get a grip I won't tolerate you intolerance!!!! ;)

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Well I said "almost".There isn't much difference between 25% and nearly 33% is there?I'd also like to ask,how do you know,where you there?lol

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Tolerance. Laudible sentiment, but I fear it'll never happen.

It's human nature. There's never been any time, or any society, that has lived peacefully.

It always makes me laugh with football supporters, especially Celtic and Rangers, though they are not alone, hate each other, and will try to kick each others asses, but when it comes to the national side, these mortal enemys will join forces and direct theit hatred at another perceived enemy, especially if it's England.;)

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If you win the lottery Pilky, I'll take a third of your winnings rather than a quarter then, if there's not that much difference.

I'll also tell you if I was there.;)

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You couldnt have picked a better example for hypocritical behavior. Team on team will fill the local hospitals but nation on nation they want a rerun of Bannockburn very very weird.

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Unfortunately Willow you are correct. I'm afraid the perception, on this thread anyway, that America does not have the same problems as the UK is off by a long shot. We have exactly the same problems here with the PC brigade. Recently in a town in Alabama, I think it was, there was a collage in the entrance to one of the municipal buildings which had the ten commandments on it. They have been pressurised into taking it away so as not to offend any other religious sect. There are strong movements to have the words "under God" taken out of the oath of allegience. All the complaints which I have read on this thread compare to similarities over this side of the pond. America strives very hard to be a true multicultural society but, like the UK, too many of the immigrants do not want to intigrate and live tolerant lives within the established society, they want to take it over or dramatically change it. I really don't know what the answer to this is. I'm not even sure there is an answer. Maybe multicultural societies are unworkable and are really not a good idea, I don't know. If everyone was tolerant etc. they would work, but in the real world people are not tolerant, especially of other religions. So there is always strife. I personally have no religious affiliations being agnostic, but I don't believe I should come to live in America and try to make them take words out of their oath of allegience which has been around for centuries. I try to fit in with the American way of life and I think I succeed reasonably well with that.

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I suppose it depends what you mean by multi-cultural......if you mean many cultures living side by side, each allowed to do their own thing.....then maybe, just maybe there is a chance......but if you mean one culture adopting the ideals of another then I think you are right......much has been made of forcing the issues in multi-culturalism, and this has done nothing to move forward the abilities of different cultures to live together.......the only real way to get cultures to mix is for inter-marriage over generations......that is the only way you get a mix of cultures.

One of the greatest ways to foster intolerance is to favour the ethnic groups over the indigent population......and whether it is true or not, that is what the general population believes happens here.

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The indiginous native Americans would agree with you there.;)

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Well, they will have to take it up with the British, French and Spanish of a bygone age eh?;)

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Europeans went awandering around the world and caused more trouble in a couple of hundred years than any other set of explorers. Wonder why that is oh yes relegion politics and the natives not being civilised bit wierd that.

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Well, whatever was done in the past is done. We have to try and live with the consequences......what we should be doing is making sure that we don't leave a similar mess for our children and our childrens children to sort out.

I think it is very difficult at the time to know if what you are doing is the right thing.....and our forbears did what I suppose they thought was right at the time.

Many atrocities are carried out in the name of religion.....and we don't have to look very far to see the results of some of them......but it is really fanaticism in religion that is the problem....moderates rarely would kill anyone. It has been happening since the dawn of time......The Crusades spring to mind.

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The wat things are going it could be like the crusades again except some countries have the capacity to do some real harm. I dont think we really learned from the mistakes in the past and will just carry on with the hatred and mistrust.

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How can we be sure it might not happen life is tenacius and could be up there having a gander at us and proberly laughing as well. It would be a poor do if Mister and Misses I M A Martian is needed to unite us a bit even for a short time.
:o

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What a wonderful idea instead of killing people of different cultures and faiths we can all join together and kill Klingons, Borgs etc, etc.

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Ma Less would be standing there with half a cow and a few gallon of moonshine to make the Klingons feel at home. :D
A nice friendly how you doing buddy.

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