Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

Over the weekend I have been following the unfolding tragedy in Pakistan and India following the Earthquake. Terrible pictures and every story as sad as the last one. One's heart naturally goes out to those poor people who must now face the onset of winter without a home.

Listening to the additional media wallowing this morning on breakfast news I was struck by one or two salient questions which I think it is only right that someone should ask.

I recall that shortly after the Asian Tsunami last Christmas there were voices raised in Pakistan who insisted that the tsunami was an expression of God's wrath and displeasure at the sinfulness of the people in the countries affected. Are we now to conclude that the people of Pakistan and Kashmir and India who have lost their lives and their relatives and their homes and livlihoods are similarly sinful? This despite the majority of them being good Muslims who have spent their lives rubbing their foreheads in the dust in obeisance to a seemingly fickle and capricious deity? Has their observance of Ramadan and their pilgrimages to Mecca earned them so little consideration and mercy?

It then occured to me to wonder how those voices who are so quick to criticise the west for being wicked and ungodly to the extent of training their youth to make war against it are now crying out to the west for assistance; there were calls today for everything from blankets through search and rescue teams to helicopters to assist with the rescue effort.

It struck me as odd, but in a way understandable, that though the region affected has a history of earthquakes going back way before mankind first came to settle in the area the Government of Pakistan has done practically nothing to ensure the safety of it's citizens. Instead it has preferred to spend what little income it has on the ridiculous pursuit of nuclear armaments. Fat lot of use such macho posturing and dick waving is to those who are now grieving without a roof over their heads, to say nothing of the plight of the thousands of children who have been orphaned.

I wonder how much Al Queada will be donating to the rescue fund?

Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

Well, A-B.....it struck me as a bit ironic that 3 months ago our firemen and ambulance personnel were picking over the wreckage (human and mechanical) that was caused by young men who originated in that country......who had training in the religious schools over there......who were brainwashed into believing that the country that they had adopted so willingly was evil and wicked......and who are the first people to line up and go out there to search for survivors.....to put their skills at the disposal of the people.....Yes, our firemen and ambulance personnel. And where does this muslim country look for aid.....why, the WEST.....and before anyone starts accusing me of racism.....I am not being racist......just stating facts.

I know there are lots of people over in Kashmir and Pakistan who have lost their lives in this tragedy......and I wouldn't wish this kind of event on anyone. But I just wish that when the fundamentalist Muslim clerics are spouting their venom, they will remember where aid has come from.

When Hurricane Katrina devastated the US, there were some muslims who rejoiced and said it was the judgemnet of Allah.......I wonder what these same people are thinking now.

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And before anyone points out to me that aid in circumstances like these knows no religious boundaries.....I know.....It is humanitarian. Did someone mention tolerance?

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although the people who are rescued will be greatfull i highly doubt the likes of these clerics and binladen will care about the wests helping out or infact even give a damn about the victims of the earthquake

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Nothing to do with being a racist Margaret you are just stating the facts as is AB.

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You can guarantee we wouldn't get any aid off Pakistan if it happened here,unless it was muslim areas that had been affected.

Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

Whose voices were raised? I can't remember reading anything like that. There might have been a crackpot cleric who said it, but there is always a crackpot cleric blaming every natural disaster on some God's displeasure.

Since a lot of the victims were from the east as well as west, and of numerous faiths, you can't give much creedence to that.

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There are children who have suffered in this disaster and dispite what people feel its the inocent that are suffering and they need our help. Its times like this that all malice and mistrust must be put aside in order to help those in need.

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There is nothing wrong in highlighting these facts so described or discussing the failings of the governments concerned and their leader’s lack of ability. But I would ask you to consider that British personnel both civil and military went out to Pakistan and the surrounding area without question and without prejudice; they have rescued people already and will continue to search for others and provide help and advice to local people for as long as it is practical to do so. Again without question and without prejudice the British people have donated money, goods and clothing. The British Government will provide Air Transport, Funding and undoubtedly assist further by providing British military personal, equipment and know how. Whatever our feelings about what have gone before, I believe that the British People should be both proud of what we have been able to achieve and grateful that we will sleep peacefully in our beds tonight………

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I do agree though with A-b [ring dem bells!] It is outrageous that such a poor country spends such a large amount of it's income on arms, and wanting a nuclear arsenal costing many millions of pounds.

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Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

"THE BOMB STILL THE ULTIMATE DETERENT" yes and the unfortunate thing is that those who want it are the poorest states, who think it will make them secure. A damning inditement of the times we live in. Untill these nations fell safe they will carry on developing them at the expense of their own people. Yet even with that these poor people need our help and it might create a smidgin of trust between nations. Its sad that earthquakes and sunamis are needed to bring use together.

Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

Well said Willow.

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I agree Doug, the scenes were heartbreaking, and like Willow said, most of the victims seem to be children who had just gone into school.

However I do think that a country with such a poor population, and very little infrastructure in place, does spend too much of it's gross national income on arms.

I also think we do, but in relation to Pakistan we have the luxury of wealth to do so.

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Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

I’ like to say Bo**ocks but it’s not allowed. Look on a map; look at the size of that country and the length and complexity of its borders. The aggressors that threaten them are of our making for god sake and If they are poor, we may have had something to do with it and we most likely still take money out of the place. People die in this country because the NHS can’t afford the drugs that will keep them alive so are we really that rich?

Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

In relation to Pakistan? Er...yes.

I can't remember seeing limbless children begging in the streets in England, otherwise they'd die of starvation, which I have in India.


The N.H.S does have it's problems, but at least we have one.

Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

Now then just be careful with that dummy. We wouldn’t want it to pop out………. You’re describing almost every nation state east of Turkey. The pity is my friend is we sold them a lot of the arms that put limbless kids on the streets. Mainly anti personnel and land mines…….

Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

So we agree.:)

Buying arms when your population is malnourished is a bad thing.


P.S. I can name at least ten nations off the top of my head east of Turkey, that doesn't have starving children begging in the streets.

Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

Clever little flower bud……..

Can you; please do so as I am sure your right but I bet they have stock piles of mines in their armouries with “Made in Britain” stamped on the bit that goes Bang..

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Japan, Australia, North and South Korea, Saudi Arabia....... want me to go on?

Yes some have bought arms from us, but all don't have the same levels of poverty as they do on the Indian subcontinent.

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You've died of starvation in India? Or are you just poorly punctuationally-educated?

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Of course you are right Willow, I just find it ironic, but laudable.... that the ambulance personnel and the firemen have gone out there to help.......and yes, of course all people in Kashmir and Pakistan should not be tarred with the brush of terrorism........The aid being given is humanitarian........and as you say, bears no grudges.......so we should be proud of these selfless volunteers.

Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

There has been a good point raised here, that the wests are very bad & so called evil by millitants of those countries yet are sooo quick to take whatever is offered from them though. I mean why should those countries help their own when wests bail them out so they can afford rucksacks & explosives to attack innocent people!! Maybe god has spoken.

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Thing that is curious to me & has been brought up in the news is that their country is on the borders of tectonic plates & that earthquakes & Tsuarmi's are of apparent that the buildings weren't upto specification & was unable to withstand the quake seemingly their gov has done nothing to protect their people.

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Wow accymel thank you for giving us a post that's to the point instead of all the b*lls*it that is being posted.

What really annoyed me today was the sight of two muslims collecting for the appeal, the same two that that where deliberately making noise when we had two minutes silence only a few months ago for the London bombing, what goes around comes around so they say.

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Obviously both, but unlike you I don't resort to text speak, as can be seen from one of your post below, unless it's to be amusing of course.;)


Wonder wot he's doing now? I met the old head-teacher, the one after Mr Cassidy, his name excapes me, on the train the other week and he had some fond memories of the Carmel.

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Does it matter what the Pakistani Government or the rebel-rousers are doing/have done? Innocent people have died or are in great need.

I hate the extremist terrorists as much as any of you but I still feel compassion for my fellow human beings. How can you look at pictures from the devastated areas and think only of evil, fanatical people who hate the West in their twisted ideology? I see only orphaned children and grieving parents, people who have lost everything and are suffering. In the name of Humanity they deserve our help.

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Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

excellant thread and some very very good posts.

as someone said the bomb is the ultimate deterrant. when ur faced with a rival country who is next door and is bigger and better than u - u dont have much choice but try to match it. not quite next door but the whole ussr vs usa is a prime example of this.

i know alot of people are going on about the people who mocked the tsunami and mocked the hurricanes. but think of this. what wud make a great tabloid headline - a joe average guy sayin how upset he is about this or a rare loony who shouts out from the rooftop?

there's been quite a strong feelin of anger amongst asians themselves at those who said such things bout USA and the tsunami etc. what u have to remember is that there are twisted people who will shout at the top of the voice that an american bomb blew up a mosque yet they'll fully support a group who's muslim and blown one up killing 50.

i'm not sayin that anyone deserves a natural disaster or death. but the asian community and most the muslim pakistani community needed a reminder that no one is invicible from the wrath of god. as it says in the bible let he who is without sin caste the first stone. but people forget that. yes it is ramadam right now. and maybe it was the best time for god to remind his followers i am here.

i dont know how much u guys follow the goings on in pakistan but my view is that since the general took over the rule by force a few years back this is the best thing to happen for a long time. long has corruption been bleeding the country dry - people linging their own pockets. yes its goin on now but things have been done never before imagined. the strict control on the mosques and madrassas would never have been dreamed of. yet it is coming into place. the mention of pakistans weapon expenditure, it wud've been unimagined that indian soliders would be in pakistan BY INVITE helping out the old enemy. yet they are. 50 years of hate. 3 wars. many major skirmishes cannot be forgotton in 5 years. how long will it take for the people to trust sinn fien and the ira? imagine that then you will know what steps pakistan and india are taking to eliminate that hate. in the earthquake in india four years ago it refused all aid yet accepted two plane loads of aid from pakistan. steps are being taken to mend those bridges. it isnt easy both sides have people who hate the other more than you can imagine.

it was inevitable that people wud make such comments aobut pakistan, its people and the british pakistani's here. in some way the comments are a harsh reply to the community's two facedness. they are more than willing to spew the hate for uk and usa yet are more than happy to stay here and live off the system. as a muslim i feel there has been an almost deafning silence to terrorism and al qaeda until 7/7 happened. then it was our back yard and people spoke up. but still i felt it wasnt enough. instead of saying look at how we integrate i feel that the response of the muslim council was protect us and our interests.

but thats my two cents i think... i cud go on all day

Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

You Sad Sick Bitter Old Man

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all in all there are bad on each side.What it boils down to now is the young, old and people that are in general need.In helping these people maybe the general public in Pakistan will see that the West helps them no matter what they have been preached to by Bin L and his decrepid mates and followers.
Would or could any of us walk past someone dieing in the gutter? I think not.

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Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

Along with other mistakes in the above statement, you'll find Mani is actually six years younger than you.

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*L* woohoo i'm younger than someone!

the most likely scenario for people who's houses have been destroyed and do not have family in the uk is that they will emigrate to other areas which are better off. my home in pakistan is about a few hrs drive from there and we do get alot of folk coming in from the hilly regions lookin for work etc and offering to look after ur house whilst ur out of the country

for the ppl who are lucky enough to have relatives here most likely they'll decide to move stock and move to the cities as they have nothign tying them down. too many bad memories

Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

Several days after the incident the company puts this into my inbox;

Saturday's earthquake in Pakistan has reached catastrophic proportions, with
an estimated death toll of over 41,000. Although weather conditions have
slowed the response of aid to the many victims, relief continues to be provided
by agencies on site.

As a global corporate citizen and community partner in well over 50 countries
around the world, Sun wants to do its part. In addition to providing links to
websites where you can make contributions to reputable organizations, Sun's
Foundation also provides employee matching, based on guidelines.

Sun's Global Government and Community Affairs organization has recently
established an online disaster relief drive, hosted by non-profit organization and
Sun partner, Aidmatrix. This is a new year-round offering to help employees
donate easily toward relief for victims of natural or man-made disasters. On
this site, employees can have their donations automatically matched by the
Sun Foundation. Gift matching guidelines and limits will apply.

Visit our Disaster Relief website for links to information on donating, matching
gifts guidelines and current updates on the Pakistan earthquake.

Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

Try waiting a bit until you have power before you try and take karma off me, and if you haven't got the balls to sign it Make Sure That You Don't Start Every Word With A Capital Letter, It Was A Dead Give Away.:)

Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

Why? What Did He Say Rindy......:p

Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

He said....


Don't Feed The Troll *****



..about my post defending Mani's post, were he called him names, and which I thought was a very reasoned post.

Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

It's only disallowed with a lower case letter. Surely you remember that from your chatroom days?

What's wrong with Troll anyway?

Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

I've edited your post garinda as it isn't really appropriate. I've also checked your reputation comments and that word was not present. Also, it wasn't from killin joke and it included some good advice.

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Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

Psssst - Not anymore.........:)

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Quote:

Rindy Holmes in-

Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

My evil plan failed. Sorry for saying a rude word.

I've had a dreadful nights sleep worrying about it.

I think I've had a bad lot of opium, that have blunted my powers.

Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

Aww Rindy you been at the poppies again ;) if any consolation i cant remember what rude word you said im going senile already is my excuse though dont say it again dont want to get ya in trouble pmsl ................ah well todays another day:D

Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

The plan was wrong and backfired anyway, and I should have edited it last night. I still think Killin-Joke's comment about Mani's post was pointless and rude, but I should have been satisfied with deducting karma, which I signed.:)

Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

LOL Aw well put it down to learning experience :)

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Me learn from my mistakes?


I'm more intrigued than ever now. Roy said the message with the karma reduction was good advice. I'm gonna hunt me a troll.

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Quote:

Rindy Holmes (on the eve of getting banned for bad language)-Stand with me here upon the terrace, for it may be the last quiet talk that we shall ever have.

Quote:

Rindy Holmes talking to himself about himself!-But there are always some lunatics about. It would be a dull world without them.

Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

I dunno what it meant but i am intrigued to know who & where is the troll:confused: i didnt know there was one lol:D

Re: Some questions on the Asian Earthquake
 

In internet terminology, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory messages on the internet, such as on online discussion forums, to disrupt the discussion or to upset its participants. The word, or its variant, "trolling", is also used to describe such messages or the act of posting them.

Anyone who posts something that is wilfully stupid or intentionally provocative. It's called "trolling" in Internet-speak.
Sometimes, people who are merely attempting to be funny are accused of "trolling", when that is not their intent. Many trolls now find that the traditional trolling tactics are so overused and commonplace that they have to disguise their trolling to make it effective — quite often, the disguise involves accusing others of being trolls themselves.

Often the phrase "Don't feed the troll," gives trolls ammuntion; replying to their posts makes them stronger, and perpetuates the argument

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Ahhhhhhhhhhhh so thats what it is it answered my curiosity, i was expecting a little thing with green or pink spikey hair :( ah well

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Just hearing the news about aid effort to pakistan & their president had the cheek to critisize the international aid efforts!!!!!!!! Blaming cheek & ungrateful :mad: What about him pulling his own finger out for his country!!