Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

I always thought that the Archbishop of Canterbury was a defender of the faith, but apparently he is apologising to the nations of the world who he says were 'wickedly' taught hynms and carols by missionaries. By the way, this all happened in the time of Queen Victoria. I am fed up of these people who are so disenchanted with our heritage that they feel they have to apologise for our cultural background.

If this man....the figurehead of the Church of Engalnd feels so bad about our ancestors having sowed the seeds of Christianity in the dark recesses of Africa - then maybe he is in the wrong job.

Islam is looking for converts.

Oh, and while I am up here on my soapbox. Lambeth Council (hey, isn't that the Archbishop's neck of the woods) has banned the Christmas Lights......well, no...... they are still having the lights, but they are calling them 'Winter Lights'......they don't want to upset the Ethnic minorities.....but I bet they have a poster up somewhere in the borough the proclaims 'Eid Mubarak'

Oh, I think I should just mention that I hold no particular beliefs or affiliations to any Church or religious organisation.

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: When the church desides to follow the "in thing" then we are all in a mess. Could Lambeth council change the name of EID and get away with it? Doubt it so why does christmas have to change to suit the "in thing":mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

I've lived in loony Lambeth, but when I also lived in neighbouring Wandsworth our streets were lit up by the council, not for Christmas but for Dwahli.

All faiths should be respected, but we are a Christian country. We've had Jews living in Britain for centuries who haven't felt threatened by Christian celebrations. Most of my Jewish friends love Christmas, as well as their own holidays.

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

Integration, coupled with tolerance is fine, seperatism isn't, as can be seen in the suburbs of Paris this week.

As long as the 'pc brigade' insist on diluting British culture, the majority of people will feel threatened, and the flames of a backlash will keep on being ignited.

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

Agree, agree. agree .. I have no religious beliefs, but love my country.
Crunch was re. the Christmas Cards last year that couldn't depict any 'Jesus' thing or whatever. It is the councils that are inciting racial prejudices, not us humble folk. Why ? Just too scared to lose a vote and defend our culture. No .. not defend, incorrect word .. uphold.

I quite agree. I am proud of my country its past and its culture. If we are going to ban the majority of people in this country from celebrating there religion in public becasue it might offend people of other faiths, mainly immigrants and there decendants, then perhaps we should ban all of the others as well. I have never heard of anything quite so stupid! This is England.... England home of the English! If other want to come here they must accept our culture and our people or go somewhere else:engsmil: .

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

I’m a believer in respecting the faith of the country you live in and that in return they should show respect for yours….We should keep in mind that we have been fighting over religion and beliefs for over two thousand years. What we should note and what our local representatives and central government should be keeping an eye on is the events that are being played out on the streets of Paris at this moment. It’s going to happen here of that I have little doubt if this lack of pride in our heritage continues to be degraded.

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Christianity brought many good things to the people of the developing countries. One Victorian missionary was hacked to death when she tried to prevent a young African girl from bleeding to death after she had been circumsised. In India, many of the hospitals were started by missionaries....who incidentally, would treat people regardless of their religion.
How can we apologise for our ancestors bringing faith to communities?......we cannot change our history......and apologising does nothing constructive.

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You are right Margaret; do you remember a couple of years back when we had all this in regard to slavery?

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

I do indeed. I worked with a Consultant who would devote part of his holidays to going back to India to help run the missionary hospital there.....this man is white and was raised in Liverpool and is a committed Methodist. He has encouraged members of the nursing staff to go with him each year and they take items of equipment that is outdated but still working.....this is the mark of a true Christian....... OK, he might sing a few hymns (badly) while he is operating........and Dr Rowan Williams wants to apologise for this.

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

so as not to offend christians " eid " will now be known as Eidmas :)

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Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

why would less want my balls cutting off...? :eek:

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

First, I'm not a "Christian" in the sense that, brought up by a Roman Catholic mother and an agnostic father, I eventually chose the latter persuasion. I am, however, English (no, I've no Scottish, Welsh or Irish in me for the last 400 years but OK, if you like, I'm British).

My country may have, indeed has, some murky events in its history but what country hasn't? I'm proud to be English (British) and I'm proud of my country's history, culture and traditions. One of those traditions is that it's a Christian country. I appreciate that it has, at times, been a divided and somewhat sectarian-intolerant Christianity but none the less Christian for that.

We English (British) have, particularly in the last century, welcomed and accepted people of all faiths into our midst but we have retained our essential Christian identity. How dare these ridiculous people try to belittle and deny our heritage?

I will not bow to the PC brigade by moderating Christian terminology in order not to cause offence to anyone who is arrogant enough to be offended. I will not pretend that Christmas is not about Christ, even if I don't adhere to the dogma. I will extend Christmas greeting to all, Muslim, Jew, Hindu or whatever and he who objects to my sentiments can go elsewhere and object from far away. I don't think there would be many takers - except the looney councillors.

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

Chav...somebody said they could get him some bloody nuts for Christmas!

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

Well said West Ender......I would give you some Karma but it seems to have been affected by the changing of the clocks.

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

Me too.............and others.

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

I've been affected by changing the clocks too. In my case it just means I'm waking up at 5:30 a.m. and I'm permanently knackered. :D

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

[quote=West Ender]First, I'm not a "Christian" in the sense that, brought up by a Roman Catholic mother and an agnostic father, I eventually chose the latter persuasion. I am, however, English (no, I've no Scottish, Welsh or Irish in me for the last 400 years but OK, if you like, I'm British).


I have a mother who is English a Scottish father with some Irish in the mix somewere and I do thik I am British . I celebrate christmas the traditional way with my daughter and do not agree with this interference. I am not sure if polititions should be messing with are traditions and worried whats on the list next. How can we explain to our kids why Christmas is Christmas but with a different name and the so called "reason" for this. :( :(

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

I'm all for the Scottish and the Irish, SpuggieJ. :) I just happen to be English, Lancashire with a drop of Durham thrown in, by accident of birth. ;)

Don't give in to the madness of these people. Keep celebrating in the traditional way and - I hope you and your daughter have a very happy Christmas.

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MERRY CHRISTMAS to all my readers.:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

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Cashy better watch the PC brigade dont try and sue you.:eek: :D

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I think some respect should be shown to the indigenous people of the British Isles and their religion, the Druids.

Those nasty Christians, who came here spreading their Middle Eastern beliefs, showed scant regard to those already here.;)

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_2_87.gif http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_2_64v.gif http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_2_73.gif http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/741.gif http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/6/6_16_5.gif http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_8_11.gif in my humble opinion if people dont like our way of life, then they are quite free to go back to their own origins ..but leave us english alone





http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb066&pp=ZN

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

Druids? You pillock "said in a clumley short of manly way" that was the Romans, the left footers came a couple decades later............

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

Don't you pillock me, the indigenous Britains were quite happily cavorting around their stone circles, worshipping nature, until all those outsiders came with their Judaic- Christian traditions from the middle east.

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

Yes I know all that thank you. I'm just saying that scant regard was made to accomodate the beliefs of the people who were living in Britain before the arrival of Christianity.

We, I speak as a high druid, are a down trodden people, similar to the Aboriginies and the native Americans. The Christians won't even allow worship at Stone Henge at the summer solstice.

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

Have you found your pile of Look and Learn comics?

Your point eludes me.

Remember you are supposed to be the funny one to my straight man, in this comic marriage.;)

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

Oh and by the way Emperor Constantine was a Briton, he was born here, his Mother was a pure Celt, we’re not to sure about his father though.

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

Look and Learn where not comics, I wasn’t making a point I was correcting you. Anyway you shouldn’t tell them that we’re a double act. They just think its natural talent....:rolleyes:

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

No dear boy, you've lost the point.

My original post was ironic, comparing how Christian Britain is being eaten away by the pc brigade defending other religions, and making a joke about how the indigenous pre-Christian Britains lost their idetity, except the bits that were nicked to make Christianity more appealing, like the moving of Jesus's birthday nearer to the mid winter solstice.

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That'll be the day. [Can you sing that, or is it just Cliff's you do?]

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

getting back to the original topic...

first off i'd like to state that i don't believe in organised religion, as i'm more spiritual than religious..

but i would like to think that maybe the Archbishop wants to change negative views on his denomination set by Victorian Britain? i dont know, i obviously wasnt around, but maybe the Archbishop just wants to get his point across without having to deal with a prejudice against everything he is saying due to the ways religion was taught in the last century?

In response to the 'Christmas/Eid' debate, I would just like to say this; ignorance is bliss - i bet most people in Accrington don't know what religion most people belong to, and presume that all the people of Asian descent in Accrington are muslim - I would just like for everyone in the area to have a little bit more of an open mind and a little more tolerance....y'never know, it could happen!

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

Jesus was that woody?.........:eek:

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

Woody has decided to show a little of the tolerance he forgot to show in his greatest rocker thread.:)

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

s'pose i deserved that haha

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Excused.................:)

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

...still shocked, Doug? haha

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

Well said Woody lad.....…..Right Mr Rindy the point you’re missing is that throughout this lands history of the last 2000 years or more is that its make up of peoples has always been Multi Cultural with an actively equal and diverse religions Mix…..

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

Tolerance Woody, give him a minute.

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

im 16 fer cryin out loud tolerance has its limits man!!

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Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

Don't take the p***, I'm 46 not 64. :p

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

i feel born again! maybe i should join a religion! suggestions, anyone? har har har

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

Dear Doug, I know very well the ethnic diversity that goes to make up this country. I actually wrote my one and only letter aged sixteen in 1981, to the Observer about this very issue. It was in answer to someone from the National Front, who the previous week was trying to make the point that the British race was 'pure'.

I'm glad to report that the death threats I received still haven't shut me up.:)

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

The terms 'British race' and 'pure' cannot be put together - as Britain itself is a result of every single country who's invaded us!! ;the vikings, those normandy blokes who killed our kid harold...the list goes on! (probably!)

spose what im trying to say is that britain is a country built upon cultural diversity, and that we shouldnt exploit 'differences' in culture within our own people...as evidently all these 'different' cultures make up our British culture!:D

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

Here here woody just a pity the bods at Westminster are throwing a deaf ear about.:(

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

I can assure you that with the possible and rather tenuous exception of the last 15 years or so, that Britain whilst indeed has had many cultural and religious groups here has been anything but tolerant. To name a few incidents. The Reformation both Catholic and Protestant, the massacre of the Jews of York and else where. Not least the Civil War which saw more bloodshead on religious grounds than either of the precious reformations, and of course last but not least the British Empire. Now do not get me worng I am not ashamed or our past, but I think is is about time people realised Britain's past has been a great many things but tolerant is not one of them!

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

I think it is fair in this instance to say that you have hit the nail on the head!

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

Doug you have echoed my point very succinctly. We can no more apologise for the doings of our forbears than fly to the moon unaided. They acted in good faith at the time. The apology does nothing at all.......and the missionaries were under the impression that they were doing good works.
Maybe it was jesus who set the ball rolling by telling the apostles to be 'fishers of men'. Most organised religions are on the lookout for converts.....why should christianity be any different?
I just think it is a bit rich for the Archbishop of Canterbury to be getting into these sad PC issues.

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

Thank you Margaret. He would certainly be better off tending his flock and ensuring that Christianity and its values are up held in the face of the pressures of the modern world.

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

Unfotunately for us the church is becocoming more and more involved in politics with an outcome that could make the problems ith race and culture more prefound. Until they butt out and do what they are there to do thesituation as it stands will only get worse. Hisotically when the church and politics mix mix there is all hell let loose and it the innocent common person that looses. It is time for Mr and Mrs Common to stand up and tell them what they think.

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

I am getting just a bit fed up of folk apologising for our traditions and cultural heritage......because it might upset some incomers......when you question the said incomers......they are not offended at all.
I know we are not a pure race and our culture and traditions have evolved over the centuries......and will probably continue to do so.....if people would only stop trying to influence and manipulate artificially how this happens, we would all be much happier. All this meddling does is to throw racism into bas relief.....which makes it much more of a contentious topic. British people are extremely tolerant of other cultures and religions......and I am talking about NOW.......not centuries ago.

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

Exactly what sort of repressive regeme do you want. One where no one and no institution may speak there mind. How do you think people would react if they said trade unions or moslems or any other group should keep there mouths shut. We live in a free society where we are free to express our beliefs. Supress one and you will have to supress everyone.

Like any other individual or institution the Church and its members have every right to speak its mind on political issues whether you agree with it or not. If it has an opinion it is entitiled to express it.

As for getting on with what they are supposed to do, well they are. I suggest you actually learn what the church is there for. When you do, you will find it is not just for weddings, baptisms and funerals. It is also there for speaking out against what it considers to be wrong and speaking for what it considers to be right. This will not change nor should it!

This is one of the many tasks given them by its founder. If people do not like it then its too bad.

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All religions have their political side and always will but there has to be a balance. Is the govenment opposition in parliment or the pulpit? Not against people speaking up I just believe its best done in neutral surroundings.

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I have to disagree! It is more than just a political side. Religion is by its very nature political.

As for the pulpit, the Churches, regardless of denomination have every right to address whatever issue to their congragtions, they have every right to influence there members on whatever subject in whatever fashion they see fit!

Where politics is concerned there can be no neutral ground!

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

If polititions started the same antics with the church as the church does with polotitions the church would be up in arms ove interference.

Re: Onward Christian Soldiers.
 

The point is irrelevant!

Fact however, still remains!

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The point to me is not irrelevent even if it is to others.