Work 'til you drop....!
 

The government is planning to make people work until they are 67.... this is to cover the shortfall in Pensions......maybe if Gordon Brown gave back the money he raked off the pension schemes it wouldn't be necessary.

20% of Men will not live to draw their pension if the pension age goes up, so there will be a saving there. There are also plans for the government to start up a pension savings scheme......everyone will automatically be included but there will be an opt out clause. The government know that once people are in a scheme, inertia often keeps them there.

Indeed, though I think that the whole thing (as you rightly pointed out) is just another ploy to make more money.

I think it would be worth asking the question as to whether or not this new scheme that we are all going to be made a part of (granted there is an opt out clause), will carry with it another tax?

I should be very surprised if it did not!

What we will ultimately end up with is another government scheme for placing a secondary income tax on your hard earned pay.

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No it won't be a tax....it is proposed that the employee will contribute 3% and the employer will contribute 3%. I think it would be more beneficial to prevent those who have not paid into the benefits scheme(which is in an almighty mess - and those are the governments words, so we have to assume it is pretty bad) from accessing benefits...or making it so that they can only draw benefits for 6months..to maybe help them get on their feet.

Which ever way you slice it.....it is still going to be money that is coming out of your disposable income.

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Indeed it is. Though once there are savings in this scheme surely the government will tax the total amount aquired as they do with all other schemes regardless of who there contributors may have been.

That is my main concern.

Even the state pension has been taxed. You most certainly do not get back what you paid into it. They may not call it a tax but it amounts to the same thing.

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I think you are right.

We could see how many people are likely to have to pay for their funeral before they get the chance to draw a pension, or indeed get their savings back!

However, funerals do not really apply to me as I have already died and am unlikely to do so again..... Once was enough!

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For some working until they are 67 might be the only option available. As it stands there are so many people who cannot make a living wage as it is and throw in geographical location it makes it a money nightmare. I pay into a private pension scheme which when I was opening was offered the chance to take out the pesion contribution from my NI payments. I refused and am glad i did. Those who went down this road have suffered from the lack of returns on investments and will have a large shortfall to make up in their pensions.

The govenment proposals for a pension savings scheme might help these people but would it help me? The pension pot has been raided that often by sucessive govenments that they should be partly to blame. What would the next step they take be deny all those with private pensions their right to a state pension? As it stands public sector workers can retire before private sector and have a nice pension from it and are against an increase in retirement age. If it is a "cash grab" then like most before it could fail and put us in a worse position than we are now. Is this what we want to happen and then end up worse of than we are? GB is very low down the pension provision list with outher smaller poorer countries high up than us and some with a lower retirement age.

The company I work for has a set mandetory retirement age of 60 for all workers so what will i have to do to suvive after that? There are people who have worked all their days paid their stamp and end up amongst the poorest around. Yes we will end up working untill we drop and have nothing to show for it. Retirement is the reward for putting in the hours paying your taxes and providing for the family. Yet thanks to incompitence at the highest level and not what some believe is the aging population and longer lifespan we are in this mess. Personally I dont like the idea of 67 as the retirement age because thanks to the hours i put in I would have done enough and paid enough by the time I am in my mid fifties.

Then we have those who have never really worked and payed nothing to the state who will have the same as those who have. Its all wrong and will ultimately help this crisis grow.

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Spug, you are quite right. It is a very unfair system. I think you were only mocking when you mention state pensions being stopped for those who have private ones.

However, you may like to go to the Labour Party Thinktank, as this is something that is currently under review.

A scary thought!

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When NIC was first introduced it was to pay for your pension, your NHS and any Benefits you might need in your lifetime. You are still paying NIC. How dare this government decide that you must contribute to another pension fund in order to get enough to live on in your old age? How dare they suggest that you must work longer before you receive the meagre amount they have decided will keep you (barely) alive?

Some of us have private or company pensions. As a Civil Servant I will retire on a pension though, after only 20 years reckonable service, it will be minute. I have a pension from my late husband's last employer too, though the fund went bankrupt shortly after he died and it hasn't increased in 9 years. What about the person who just hasn't had the wherewithall to contribute to a pension fund? What about the person whose work is heavy and manual? Does he continue to swing a pick-axe while his bones ache and his eyesight dims?

If this government wants to save money it should stop the wholesale immigration of opportunists who come here to live on our State Benefits and who have never contributed a penny towards them. Why should you work longer to keep them?

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It would be interesting to know if the members of parliament will have a private pension funded by the tax payer!

I say the tax payer as we are there employers (at least officially speaking).

If this is the case (and I am quite sure that it is), then I would like to know how much the Tax Payer is contributing to it!

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Yes I was moking but I wouldnt put it past them in order to save a bob or two.

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Just laid an egg at that piece of info. Whish I could have that kind of money handed to me. :(

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Re: Work 'til you drop....!
 

%100 agree with you on that and i got a few other things i could add to the list of things people will have to work longer to pay for as well

edit

heres an example of stupid spending of our national insurence

a person who by no fault of anyone else but themselves decides to drink themselves to near death and becomes an alcholic , our govenment in its wisdom allows these idiots to fall under the category of been ill infact in some cases it is called a disability

to treat these people our govenment not only allows them to stay on the sick but also provides them with EXTRA money to keep them in drink so on top of the NHS bills they run up with their couciling and treatments etc ,their incapacity benefit they get even more money to go buy booze with while muggings average joe goes to work while they sit in the pub getting drunk

what is so special about alcholics anyway i ask because when i had cancer i didnt get any EXTRA money for cigrettes infact i was advised to stop smoking so why are alcholics not told to stop drinking

i have no problem with an alcholic that buys their own beer but why should we be buying their beer i for oine would never buy a stranger beer ( unless the stranger had big boobs and found it hard to say the word no )

oh i also think we waste too much money treating drug addicts but at least they dont get extra money to buy drugs that i know of, maybe we should just ask the dealers to make the drugs more dangerous and wipe the lot out

kind of ironic that ime sat here with a few cans of beer but at least its MY money paying for it ;)

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I'm all for equality between the sexes, but as Margaret Pilkington pointed out if the retirment age is raised still higher, a greater percentage of men will never get to draw their pension anyway.

The retirement age should be the same for men and women, bearing in mind that male life expectancy is shorter than that for females.

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Looks like they are praying 1 in 5 of us kick out before they have to pay a pension. On another point did women up to a short time ago lose out on pension entitlement because they had not paid enough stamp because they stopped work to raise kids?

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They still do. Many women who haven't paid enough N.I. stamps loose out on a full pension at retirment age.

Hardly encourages so called family life does it?

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So thats why all these high flying carrer women dont have families they are scared of not getting a pension.

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Because of my health I managed to get my private pension to pay out this year at forty. It was a real struggle, but it just about keeps my window boxes in plants throughout the year.

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I'll just ring up and claim to be asian.

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just watching hard talk and they got onto pensions

apparently its all OUR fault theres no money for pensions because people dont save enough money through their working years

i find this a little bit rich coming from a government that has made more tax increases than any other party that has been in power despite prommising NO tax increases

maybe if we got taxed less we could actualy have some money to save for our later years and i dont just mean on our wages , it seems that no matter where you go in the world you can buy things cheaper than in the uk

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There's no way I'm working until I'm 67........ Some jobs just cannot be done safely after the age of 60. I'm lucky in that I have paid into an NHS pension scheme since I was 19, so by the time I retire it should be a decent pension..... Not as decent as police pensions, but passable non the less.

The problem that we have now is that the population of the UK has changed over the last few decades.

1)The birth rate dropped, (especially evident in the 80's) but there has been a drop since the introduction of contraception. This means that we have fewer young people, therefore fewer workers paying into the system.

2) People are living longer, the natural pre NHS killers TB, Childbirth, Infections etc. no longer pose much threat to life and are treatable for most people, therefore people who would have normally died younger are living longer and have to be supported in old age.

3) We have more people getting away with not working (immigrants included). It's high time that the scroungers were weeded out and made to work. Benefits should not be given to anyone for more than 6 months, unless they are genuinely sick and under the care of a specialist. You have no idea how many people I've come across on incapacity for depression and have never seen a psychiatrist!!!!!! There are plenty of jobs out there, why else would we have to import people from Eastern Europe to do them???? Is it that us Brits consider some jobs to be too menial??? :cool:

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I did a presentation on this in politics and I think they came to some sort of agreement whereby public sector workers (or maybe anyone whos currently in the pension scheme, not sure) can take advantage of the current rules although any new workers would have to take up the 67 years old pension when it was implemented..

something to that effect, its a load of rubbish if you ask me.

(My presentation was mainly on UNISON so I didn't go into that much detail, but thats what I gathered above :p)

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I am surprised that this one passed without comment; apparently the Post Office have just asked the regulator to agree an increase in postage charges to cover the massive shortfall in the postal workers pension fund (£400M approx). Postmen will still be allowed to retire at 60, their Union has insisted, and you and I will have the priviledge of paying for it every time we post a letter.

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At 68 this proposed new retirement age will not affect me, unless they make it retrospective but I sympathise with all those who will be affected.

I read in this and other forums posts people complaining, quite rightly, about the level of taxation that we are burdened with. However, what we should be campaigning against isn’t so much against the level of taxation but HOW THOSE TAXES ARE SPENT.

Billions upon billions are wasted on, among other things, multiple layers of unnecessary bureaucracy. We have an ID card system being foisted on us the cost of which would practically solve the NHS problems overnight if it was abandoned. Computer systems for the DSS, or whatever it is called nowadays, that didn’t work and more money has to be poured into the cyber hole. The list is endless.

If you, as the family bread winner, spent the bulk of your earnings in the pub, bookie etc. leaving your family with not enough to exist on, you would quite rightly be condemned for doing so. That is exactly what this and previous governments have done to us the UK family.

Complain about taxes and the retirement age if you must but complain even louder about how your taxes are being spent.

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If i remember rightly or understood the Sky News report on this there will also be an increase in Pension Payouts of roughly 28% a week????

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Erm' Jambutty was that just some sort of O.A.P. ploy to be able to say, "I'm 68 you know You wouldn't think it would you?". If you are now 68 then obviously even if it was introduced that retirement was taken to 67 IT WON'T AFFECT YOU!

I think if you read a few more of the threads on here you would find there are quite a few people that do complain and in a very loud and articulate manner, as proof of this I'm sure AB will have plenty more to say in this very thread.

P.S. Kill the frog in your Avator he looks too wrinkled even for someone your age!
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/11/11_5_6.gif

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I will only believe that when I see it. How can they give 28% for working an extra 2 years and say there is no more money in the pot now. :confused:

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Hum lets see now i think that for the person who maybe a librarien or other equivelent should work til they are 67 but the person who works their guts out like my daddiboo (he is an asphalter) should retire on a good pension at an early age.

What i am trying to say is it should depend on the job they do it gets me how there can be men who work 65 hours a week and slogg their guts out eg: labourers, brickies, asphalters, binmen and so on and yet they get paid pitence for the hardest jobs never complaining!

and on the other hand you get mr Smith who works as a manager in a 9-5 job who barely even gets his hands dirty and can't stand it if he has to lift his fingers gets paid £ks.

surely the man who works the hardest should be paid the most!

You may think i am wrong but i see daddiboo's hands covered in blisters on blisters and burns on burns day in and day out and i know that by the hour he earns less than me and he never complains about it.

Daddiboo and i know that if he had to work until the new age of pension he would never collect it.

That is why i think it is wrong i dont expect you all to agree with me though.

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Unfortunately the workers that mummiboo is on about are the ones that are more likely to die before they can claim a pension. :(

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On the contrary, Mummiboo. I wholeheartedly agree. In my opinion it is the pen-pushers who should be at the back of the queue when it comes to pay and pensions, along with those who think that they have some sort of divine right to decide how I should live my life. As well as the idiots in Parliament and County and Town Halls across the country, who, if it were not for folk like your dad, would have to sit and spout their nonsense in the open air.

My father fought for King and Empire in the jungles of Burma during WWII, which ruined his health. But he continued to work and pay Tax and NI despite that. He was not permitted to claim anything in disability benefits despite being afflicted with severe angina. It galled him to see wave after wave of immigrants come into the country and turn up at the DSS to claim benefits which were denied him and a pension he knew he would not live to enjoy. He lived just two months into his sixty fifth year.

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At one time the Lord of the Manor dictated how people lived and died, Here we are in the 21c and we are heading back to those medievial days with a new bunch of suited "Barons" is that why all those soldiers died for their country? An imegrant gets a bonaza on arriving here, our pensioners get a right reaming where is the logic and caring for ones own in that.

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I don't think the retirement age relates to just men......I think that they are hoping to make women work until 67 too.......so that is an extra seven years.
The jobs where you can sit on your BTM...well, it may just be possible to continue until 67......I retired at 55 from nursing and I can tell you... it is a physical job and one that is stressful.....I would also ask you whether you would be happy with some 67 yr old arthritic nurse looking after you when you have just had a heart attack? Talk about dying in harness.

I would also like to say that over the years I have worked and contributed to my pension.....nobody is GIVING me anything......I EARNED the bloody thing...and I am still paying tax to keep the idle workshy in wide screen TV's and PSP2's.

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Got to agree the retirement age should be based on your job.:) As for the "cared for workshy" then when people retire due to the wear and tear of the job they are in the "workshy" should be forced to take some of these jobs. :) Then they could feel what we go through and what its like to be paying taxes so their kind can slob about all day!!!!!:(

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I could be persuaded to accept a raising of the retirement age, if that age applied equally to everyone - men and women, and if the pension was payable only on the achievement of a minimum number of years of contributions, say twenty five. I do not hold with handouts to those who have never done a tap in their lives or handouts to immigrants on the make.

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The irony of my comment obviously escaped you Less.

It must be hell having to retire at 67 from living on the dole.:Banane39:

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My job is tertiary, however it requires a lot of skill and training in order to do it.(I'm currently able to program in over 6 languages, can script in three more, I design, build, and test sytems over distributed computing for an industry that handles billions of pounds a day) Why should my retirement be compromised because I do a job that not everyone could do. It takes a certain mindset to be able to do it. I may not be physically tired when I get home but I can surely be mentally drained. I do have respect for those who work in physical jobs but please don't think that their work is somehow superior. It takes a whole lot of people to make this world go round and without the order and planning labourers would rarely do an efficient job. Likewise how would a builder know what to build without an architect sitting on his arse and drawing the plans.

Ian

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I think this is a narrow minded and ignorant comment, that shows a considerable lack of knowledge and understanding as to what goes on in the real world!

I strongly suggest that you get a grip on reality!

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i can see both points of this argument

pen pushing jobs as they are called can be very stressfull but at the same time statistics do show that people who do manual labour jobs do die younger and the statistics show that people who work shifts die even sooner

than again thats just statistics :)

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Hope its just statistics because if not I had better start planning my funeral as I have been doing shifts for many a year. ;)

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theres a difference between doing shifts and WORKING shifts m8 so you should be ok ;)

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Work a 3 shift pattern done constant night shifts 12 hour shifts 7 days a week. Have over done it in the past but if I aint going to see my pension then I will carry on. ;)

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i would hate to be in the army can you imagine been on the front line at age 67 onwards lol

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Better than the ones on drink and drugs. ;)

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Age doesn't seem to be a hinderance to Commissioned Officers!

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Wonder if thats because of the easier life they have?;)

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My job is both physically and mentally knackering including shifts where I can be working days and nights in the same week. I will be going at 55 whether they like it or not, otherwise I will go on long term sick and they can move me to a desk job.

Chav is right about shift work shortening your life. A study in the US showed that people who work shifts can expect to die 5 years sooner than those who don't. Then again, they are the last 5 years when you've lost control of your bladder, can't remember your name and wish you were dead anyway....;) :D

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Perhaps lack of leadership is demonstrated once more on Broadway, those poor blokes have no chance of doing a good job! (I think all the management took early retirement!).

How anyone that has such a bad outlook on his personal life, (see thread) can advise someone else to get a grip on reality is beyond me!

Myself I would rather live in a world filled with scented flowers and sunshine and where we are all friends together, that has got to be better than reality!

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Well have to now go and shorten my life a bit more. Life is a pain.

:eek: :confused: ;)

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Sorry dont mean that your job is less superiour to others or anything like that i just mean what i said doin the job daddiboo does is so much more physically more demanding and in return i know that he will be dead before getting his pension at 67 where as you probably would'nt be, i just dont think its fair that knowing this the government could still up the age as people say it should be equal, and by that i mean that it should be at an age where he wont work himself into an early grave!

I certainly do not mean to say you dont know how to do the job you are doing and its like you say if the architect didnt have all his little people running around doing the sh*t jobs for him then nether would the job get done so you see as it works vice versa.

I know daddiboo could not do your job without the correct training but neither could you do his job without the correct training and the physical side well lets say i dont know many people who can do his job and stick at it!

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One thing to remember is that no-one forces anyone to do a specific job. Up to now in my career, I've sold TV's video cameras and Hifi, worked the pub restaurant game(very physically demanding when you are running up two flights of stairs over 200 times a day plus shifting 36 gallon barrels), organised shifts for call centres and now do the job I described earlier. I have done these jobs as ways to improve myself both mentally and financially. If daddiboo is unhappy with his job/life prospects then it is up to him to change it. There are more opportunities to retrain now than at any time. I could take on other opportunities that would increase my salary significantly over what I earn at present but as this would likely mean working away from home I will not do it. My family are more important to me than any job will ever be.

Please remember you work to live not the other way round.

Ian

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If you had read in my other post i have said that Daddiboo does this work and as i said he does not complain and i have never said anything about him being unhappy in his work Daddiboo has done this work since he left school he went to college to better himself at the work he does. You can tell me about running up and down stairs Asphalt goes on roofs to can you guess how it gets up there when the hand pullys not working! lets not forget the reason we are posting in this thread and that is the about the government wanting to up the age limit for you to claim your pension. I really dont mean to sound like i am being funny with you i was just trying to put forward my point of view.

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This all getting a bit post-modernist.

I think that a lot of the disagreement centres on the value we place on certain occupations. For example, The Idiot-in-Chief reckons he is worth every penny of £16K per year, plus pension, plus benefits, plus allowances, although the majority of members here, given the choice, would not pay him with the holes out of washers.

I cannot for the life of me see why a football player deserves to be paid £60k per week, though I suspect that the football player, like the Idiot-in-Chief, would disagree with me.

The crux of the matter is the crappy way the State Pension System was set up in the first place. Had the income been invested, as it should have been, there would not have been a problem. But it wasn't. Income came in through one door and straight out through the other. What was left over at the end of any particular year was then absorbed into general government funds. Can you imagine the monolithic size of of the state pension fund now if it had been invested, it doesn't bear thinking about. The Labour Party have never been very good with money.

Post-Modernist: Susan Sontag; "Once you have decided that something is art, it is pointless saying that A is better than B, because they each have their own inimicable qualities." She has a lot to answer for, that woman.

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And if Gordon Brown had not skimmed the cream off the pension schemes then perhaps that would have helped too. I suppose the investments would have had to be sound to have been any good...and as your observation about the Labour Party's financial accumen...what would have been the chance of that...? The whole of the benefits system is a total shambles. People who have not contributed in any way can draw benefits ad infinitum - there has to be something wrong with that concept. I am all for a welfare state that helps people to get back on their feet.....but I am not happy with supporting the same folk and their dependents for generations to come.

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No Margaret, the dodgier the scheme the more chance of a good solid return on any investment, actually you are quite right, they would have to be sound, but that doesn't mean that the top men would have invested it wisely on our behalf.

Someone somewhere would have created a South Sea Bubble that would have seen all those funds disappearing into nothing!

In fact, oh! look, those funds, (Dramatic pause called for here)..........
They've disappeared into nothing!

Who said magic is an illusion?

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Even a sound investment stratagy doesnt always return a healthy gain. When the stock markets have a hiccup or a sneezing fit as has been known then the sound investment still looks good compared to others. At least the state pension is there a private one is subject to whims of every stock market it has invested inand as the US is the biggest every other follows when it crashes. Even so called low risk investments can suffer then.

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A-B is right. The State pension system was flawed from the start. Pensions were given immediately to those who were of the right age, even though they had paid nothing in. So we have a system where those of us paying NI are paying the pensions of the previous people who paid NI, because none of it was invested for the future. The fact that we are also paying massive benefits to those who have never paid a penny into the system, plus free health care (in large quantities), doesn't help one bit.

I have a better State pension than most people, simply because I have paid in more over the years. How long the State will be able to pay it is another matter. At 58, it is a worrying thought. And yes, I did pay into a private pension, but since it was with Equitable Life (as was one of my occupational pensions) the chances of my seeing much of it are very small.

I can't afford to retire at 60, not if I want to have a good lifestyle. Yes, I work at a desk, but I have an extremely stressful job, which demands a great deal of effort and mental energy. On working days I frequently fall asleep at 9:30 because I am shattered.

I have worked hard and paid in all my life. I should be entitled to spend my declining years (shut up, those of you who are muttering that I am well into them) in reasonable comfort, without worrying how to pay the gas bill. Perhaps I should have been an MP - it is their index-linked, inflation-proof pensions that are helping to drain the system. So come on Tony and Gordon, don't plan on retiring until you are 67, but it would help if you died of overwork before getting there - that would be a real help to the State pension funds!

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The point about the vagiaries of the Stock market is well made, but there are other things to invest in other than Stocks. For example, does anyone remember the British Rail Pension Fund? It put huge amounts of money into buying art and was a contributor to the rise in prices in that market. Higher prices means higher value.

If the government had on hand a pension surplus to invest when the Channel Tunnel was first mooted it could have been used to pay for the lot and taken all the profits from day one. Instead we are left with a monster that, fifteen years on still owes £6 billion and rising and will never make a profit.

An investment fund of that size could have made such a difference to the whole country as well as paying decent pensions. But isn't that Politicians all over; Short term, short sighted and self obsessed.

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If I have to work till i'm 67 I will be mistaken for one of the clients.
MUMMIBOO'S right I have seen the state daddiboo comes home in.
A mental job can make you just has tired has someone doing a labourious job. But it is not going to stop you from being able to sit in a chair at 67.
Unlike people like daddiboo,bin men, fire men,nurses and carers.
These are just a few of the jobs were people who have to retire at 67 will get no benifit what so ever to enjoy a retirement they have worked hard for years and years for.

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Its a govenment cash saving exercise and nothing will alter that fact.

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Had a look at my pension gunf and looks like I will need to up my contributions. :( What a carry on in order to enjoy my twighlight years:(

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isnt it a wonderfull to know that when you are peeing your pants and crapping down your trouser leg you can take comfort in knowing that you misse dout on all the good stuff when you were younger just so you can keep warm in winter when your 80

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Those echo my thoughts. My Dad was wise with money all his life. He retired at fifty, and died at fifty one.

We did think about putting the money he'd saved in the coffin with him, but decided to spend it ourselves.

Live for the day.:)

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Ask your Boss to give you a nudge as he walks past your desk, 11.00A.M. is the traditional time to start sleeping it just perks you up ready for that busy lunch time shopping!

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I might not reach 80. Besides if I did incontenence is the least of my worries. :D

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A couple of months ago this problem of pensions came up on the TV and they got some insurance know-it-all to do illustrations of how much people would need to put away in a private pension fund to guarantee £20k per year on retirement. At nearly 50, I would need to have a fund of £400,000. This would then be used to buy an annuity. Supposing that I retired at 65, I would need to live until I was at least 85 to get back what the annuity cost.

If I died before I was 85 the lot would be claimed by the insurance company as a profit on the deal.

For some reason I cannot get the term "legalised robbery" out of my head.

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Based on that I would have to work untill 85 to get 20k a year. :(