Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

I am a little surprised that no one else has started the discussion yet. Clearly you are all to preoccupied with Christmas preparations.

Today we saw a relatively small but potentially momentous change in the law. For the first time, in England, it became legally possible for two members of the same sex to publicly affirm their love for each other and to have that affirmation recognised by the law as a Civil Partnership. This single act accords such partnerships more or less the same rights and privileges as are enjoyed by married couples of the opposite sex.

Society has travelled a long way since the days of my youth, when same sex partnerships were unheard of, because homosexuality itself was illegal and would, on conviction, result in a lengthy prison sentence. Homosexuals were also frequently the hapless victims of blackmail and homophobic violence.

The Christian right has worked itself up into the predictable moral frenzy about the whole issue, predicting the end of civilisation as we know it and all manner of divine sanctions as a result of the moral laxity which condones what they view as an abomination in the eyes of their god.

Odd how the more things change, the more they seem to stay the same.

Speaking personally, I think that all the aping of heterosexual marriage is a bit tacky and just a tad silly. I agree there has to be some formal ceremony to make what is in effect a contract, but I would have hoped that my outre brothers and sisters could have come up with a more imaginative way of doing it. After all, they have had plenty of time to think about it. Still I would like to send my best wishes and congratulations to anyone getting partnered today. I hope your lives continue to be filled with love and happiness.

Anyway, mawkish sentimentality aside, what do members think about this contentious issue?

Are Civil Partnerships seen as redressing an enduring inequality?
Or are they the thin end of a very thick wedge which will be the ruin of us all?

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

I don't have any issue with 'partnerships' in this sense. I always thought it was a bit unfair when one half of a same sex couple was not afforded the same rights on the death of their partner as a live in lover of a different sex. I think this is the inequality that it should be addressing. If two people (either same sex or different sex) share their lives for a substantial amount of time they should be allowed the same rights on the death of one or the other.

However, they are NOT marriages and I am very annoyed by the media and other people who call them that.

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

PS - it can not be 'Lady' David - that issue has already been discussed in the papers because it is not a marriage and you can only get a title like that through marriage.

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

Its time we got in to the 21st century, so 2 guys or 2 girls want to live together so what.
As you say AB it is the Christian right that will be up in arms they are as bad as the mullahs.
The new civil partnership law gives gay couples the same property and inheritance rights as married heterosexuals and entitles them to the same pension, immigration and tax benefits.
Unlike in Belgium, Spain and Canada it is not a marriage, however, prompting criticism from gay rights campaigners.
"By legislating a two-tier system of relationships, Labour (government) has, in effect, created a form of legal apartheid based on sexual orientation," Peter Tatchell of the OutRage!
Can't please everyone :)

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

This law is long overdue; and yet still riddled with differences between heterosexual and homosexual couples.
For a heterosexual couple can marry at 16 with parental consent; yet homosexual couples must be 21, which puzzles me considerably.
It's going to be a very long time yet before things are equal in this country.

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

Thanks Gayle, I was aware of that, actually, I was attempting a little tongue-in-cheek humour, what with it being the festive season and all. And to be fully frank and honest I was at a bit of a loss for a better title for the thread. But it has been a long day and I am tired and that was the best I could come up with. Not up to my usual standards, I agree, but at least it is eye catching.

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

although the benefit of been locked up with hundreds of sex starved men didnt hurt them ;)


some more tongue in cheeck humour for you there AB lol

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

Oddly enough, I agree! :eek:

But when you get to my age you realise that Rome was not built in a day and you learn to be grateful for whatever you get. It will do to be going on with and has made some people very happy indeed. I am sure however, that Mr Tatchell and his supporters will not be putting aside their campaigning to rest on their laurels just yet.

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

There entitled to share the same rights as other partnerships and should equally pay the same price when they fall apart. It’s not something that I think deserves a lot of time spent on it and for those waving the rainbow banner and shouting the odds, with rights comes responsibility, marriage in its true sense should never be an issue and I don’t believe that same sex couples bring up children.

This is perhaps a positive move forward for those previously dispossess by the state or family, but it shouldn’t go much further. I regret anyone should be offended by my views, but its how I feel on the subject. I also feel that there’s already been to much misleading information in the media already. If these folks are happy, so be it. Hopefully they will just get on with it like the rest of us have done.

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

I'm sure I don't know what you could possibly be refering to there, Chav.

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

AB and myself agreeing......strange thigs are-a-happnin'!
Im glad progress has been made though, I know if I was in a homosexual relationship Id be overjoyed, but hey I can get married at my age the way I am haha :D
Congratulations to all the couples tying the knot today.

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

Sir Elton and the Hon David. Their civil marrige commitment shows a lot more maturity and modern thinking than certain sections of the populace. If they are happy and want legal protection and rights for each other then any couple should be allowed to take this action. The world needs to grow up and realise to progress we have to embrace. I watched the reports from NI Scotland and England and in my view there is nothing wrong with wanting to be a legal couple. The church reckons its the end of civilization but I can think of a few church attitudes that will be more likely to bring us down.

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

queen knights queen ... and now sir reg dwight the sodomite will be tying the
knot with its boybride .... (it should be a noose) and all this is going on with everyone around too gutless to speak their minds for fear of being outcast as racist/fascist/sexist or even "homophobic" ...all the red lines in the union jack
should be changed to big yellow streaks! ...now i know a lot of pretentious
do-goody chompers out there will be enraged by these words...good...youve been getting up my nose since i was born ... you think you are moralistic even
though you go against your creators wishes and /or sit on the fence?
whether you are a monk or a heathen monkey, homosexuals go against both
religeous laws and the laws of nature ...and to break either one will result
in chaos ( e.g. the atom bomb... aids ...i.v.f. etc)
theres a whole world of trouble coming this way ...and only the most disciplined will survive this "mass cull" ... its no use changing your mind
at the last minute ....society is being judged right now, and if you carry on
with this facade of equality ...you will be punished by even nature itself ...
this is the short of the tale ....if you think its ok for someone to sodomise
another peson then you are an anti-god full stop .. you can hide behind your
churches and your charity orgs and fake pesonalities but you cant fool your
judge.......go on folks..speak the truth and dont be gutless ...
most of the prophets told the truth and got hounded out of town for it!
what does that teach children when you can be encarcerated for speaking
your mind??? society is sick and deluded ... no wonder your children are
raping and murdering.......and sodomising each other ...nuff said...

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

in the words of Daffyd Thomas:
BLOODY HOMOPHOBE!!!!

wake up michael, aka Mini Hitler

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

If same sex couples want a union then let them. How would you feel if someone came along and told you that you will marry a certain person or you will be exiled from society. These people are doing no harm and should be left in piece to get on with their lives.
I have seen gay people especially guys suffer in the past because the law said gay is only for 21+ year old people. These guys went to hell and back to try and have the life they wanted and the suffering they went through tortured me because they were targeted for what they were.

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

It would seem that the prospect of almost equality under the law for a sizeable section of the population brings out, not rejoicing at the triumph of democracy, or the grudging acceptance that since we all pee in the same pot it is a good idea to try and live and let live or even the most basic "well it wouldn't do for me.". Instead it seems to bring out the hysterical religious zealot in some of our fellow citizens. If this zealotry were accompanied by any understanding of the texts quoted one might be prepared to listen and even attempt to debate the point, but, sadly, I see no evidence to suggest that this might be the case.

For the record: Adam and Eve had two children, Cain and Abel. From whom, according to genesis, mankind is descended. It does not take a genius of theology to work out that mankind is thus shown to be the product of an incestuous union, which is expressly forbidden.

The sins of the cities of the plain for which god is said to have destroyed them were luxuriousness and over production, no mention at all is made of unorthodox sexual practices.

The Book of Leviticus, upon which all this "abomination" malarky is based makes very interesting reading, it is perhaps a pity that more religionists do not read it. Among it's many gems, there are one or two which shine brighter than the rest. Did you realise for instance that wearing clothes made of two different fabrics is an abomination? Or that eating shellfish renders one ritually unclean? Merely touching a menstruating woman has the same unfortunate effect and women who wear trousers are such a threat to an ordered society that they are condemned to be stoned to death. It is considered totally acceptable to sell your daughter into slavery provided that she does not do the work traditionally alotted to men. And it goes on....and on... for page after depressing page, and would be laughable were it not for the fact that some of us actually pretend to believe it. Most rational folk look at the bible and see it for what it is; a social history and an attempt to explain inexplicable and threatening natural phenomena.

Thankfully most people of a religious persuasion are more prepared to accept the words of Christ who came to offer the world a new testament. This has love and tolerance and forgiveness at its heart, along with the chilling phrases "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." and "Judge not, lest ye be judged."

Coincidentally, it also has plenty to say about people who would attempt to use scripture as a cover for their own bigotry, prejudice and hatred. I am sure we are all familiar with the term "whited sepulchres".

Perhaps our resident Cassandra would like to take a couple of weeks to check his sources and then get back to us. In the meantime, I suggest we all carry on as usual.

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

The real Michael, don't you just love him?:)

In my vast experience of the sliding scale of human sexuality, men like him really do work themselves into such a tizz about sodomy, only because they have deep self loathing and fear that what they really want is to be sodomised themselves. 'Real' men, ie: those totally happy in their hetrosexuality couldn't give a literal toss about what homosexuals do, mainly because it leaves more women for them, and secondly because 'they' are secure in their sexuality.

By the way you focus on sodomy, and from talking to my lesbian friends that is not too high on their list of most haves things to do. Also most scientists will quite happily tell you that homosexuality is indeed natural, as it happens in every part of the animal kingdom.

Anyway moving on, from silly chaps who really desire a good rogering, just returned from Windsor. The flowers were out of this world, but Elizabeth Hurley looked a bit of a sulky chops, partly I fear because I caught the bouquet.:)

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

Lol, just realised this is the same nutter that threatened Lindsay Ormerod for not selling his record in her shop, and accused the BBC of being biased because they refused to play the said record because it contained racist lyrics. The real reason being mainly that it was crap.:)

NURSE. NURSE. More medication for the poor sap please.:)

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

Why, are his piles hurting? (I wonder how he got them?).

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

Not me, even though I may have fingered him as a closet case.:eek:

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

I was going to make a comment but after the last one I don,t think I,ll bother.

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

Oops, I missed the whole second page. I realy don,t care what anyone does as long as they don,t flaunt it. And there,s only one marriage, really. They can call it what they want it doesn,t make it so.

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

there's an apostrophe key next to that comma one of yours.....' see there it is...' oo! there agen '

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

Darwinism at its best, hey why not start a political party call it the reds or something similar, I know why not the Brown shirts, everyone could wear a uniform and stuff, then you could be in charge and be a right Michael and then when you've got rid of all the gays, women of ill repute, Jews (they are a bad lot) and if you have a choice, just my suggestion, Man U supporters you could overthrow Tony and invade France (they would give up real easy, just shout at them in German and low and behold capitulation). After France the world.............

A judge in the USA has had some sense
At the trial, held in Harrisburg, the state capital, Jones heard testimony from leading advocates of intelligent design and experts on evolutionary theory.
The "overwhelming evidence" established that intelligent design "is a religious view, a mere re-labeling of creationism, and not a scientific theory," he wrote.
The public statements of school-board members, he said, made clear they adopted the statement to ninth-graders to advance specific religious views.
Intelligent-design arguments "may be true, a proposition on which this court takes no position," he wrote, but it "is not science."
"The centuries-old ground rules of science" make clear that a scientific theory must rely solely on natural explanations that can be tested, he wrote.

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

i attended a lesbian "marriage" some 4yrs ago , the vicar told us at the start of the "ceramony" that it was illegal.... the ceramony itself was beautiful, whilst not being of the "gay" persuasion myself i do not hold their perusasions against any of the "gay" community,the actual ceramony was held in manchester...was well attend by a mixture of all persuasions..i even made the wedding cake for them..... they are still happily going on with their lives in their "marriage.

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

Honestly Real Michael you're going to have to learn to form an opinion and stop sitting on the fence...:D Reading your post makes me feel like you are not comfortable in your own skin.

I think civil partnership is a great idea for those who want it. There's nothing wrong with protecting the legal rights of someone you love.

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

Good luck to them all thats my opinion :)

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

I think if anything optimises the case for Civil Partnerships it was the report on last nights News which told the story of a Gay couple who had spent many years together and had been granted a special dispensation to take the ceremony early due to the terminal condition of one of the gentlemen in question.

There was no doubt in my mind that for those people this was the right direction, so much so I was moved by the report and the fact that there was a very deep and genuine love between them. Obviously the right of kinship was a main issue, but the overriding factor was that both these men wanted to end there relationship as a couple.

My understanding is that the next day the gentlemen in question slipped in to unconsciousness and died a short time later.

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

What i want to know is...

If the police were called out to 'domestic violence' would the police behave in the same way with same sex couples as they do with opposite sex couples??

Re: Is it now to be Sir Elton and Lady David????
 

Lesbians are ok but I couldn't eat a full one.:rolleyes: