The Worlds Oldest Profession. (merged)
 

After a two year study the Government has decided to review the laws regarding prostitution.

They have decided against prostitution tolerance zones, and will instead target kerb crawlers. They are also going to use education to try and deter young people from entering into prostitution as a career. All very laudible.

The law is also to be changed to allow two women to work as prostitutes from the same address for their own safety, something which at the moment is illegal because that would be classed as a brothel, which was and will remain illegal.

The Government appointed head of the study is quoted as saying that people who use prostitutes are child abusers, a comment which has been widely condemed by child welfare workers as well as the English Collective of Prostitutes.

This two year study will do very little to tackle the archaic laws regarding prostitution and the problems it brings, nor will it make it go away.

The Worlds Oldest Profession
 

Fiona Mactaggart, the Home Office Minister - not to be confused with Charles Clarke, the Home Secretary - has launched yet another crackdown on the practice of kerbcrawling - yawn!. This crackdown will view all customers as criminals and all prostitutes as victims, no matter how many times they have apprehended by the police and dragged into court for soliciting.

Yet again this will have the effect of merely moving the problem from one established area to another. It will do nothing to stop young girls prostituting themselves as a way out of poverty or to maintain an expensive drug or alcohol habit. The pimps will still make money as will the drug dealers and customers will still be there, in numbers, eager to buy whatever is on offer.

I am heartily sick of the hypocritical attitude this country has towards anything to do with sex. For goodness sake sex is a fact of life, people engage in sexual activity all the time, and most of them enjoy it. Lets face it, none of us would be here if our parents hadn't been going at it like rabbits!

Prostitution is as old as humanity, but this government is arrogant enough to think that tweaking a regulation here and a bylaw there, will be enough to eradicate it entirely. Who are they trying to kid?

It is about time that this country engaged in a serious grown-up debate about sex, sexuality and sexual expression. They don't seem to have a problem with it in the Netherlands or in New Zealand!

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i dont believe that the governent think that this is enough to eradicate it completely.

just a way to get the poor dears out of the cold :)

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Oopsie.

Spooky Acidic-babs, we are growing more and more alike.;)

Could the two threads be married together please, but without the need of a wedding bed?

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Are you sure you don't mean self abusers?

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Yes, lets have a merger, please.

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These women in a very unglamourous and unhealthy way provide a service, which in the past MP's have used.

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The two year jaunt included trips to red light districts all over Europe, nice work if you can get it I suppose.

The recommendations and changes will make not one iota of difference, either to the health of the workers and punters, or to those residents who have to live with this on their doorstep.

In some European countries where there is some sort of legalised prostitution, the sex workers pay tax on their earnings. For that very reason alone I'm suprised the Government aren't shouting for legalisation, just so they can get their hands on the millons of pounds in lost revenue, which now mainly goes back into organised crime rackets.

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http://uk.news.yahoo.com/17012006/325/prostitution-laws-set-u-turn.html

what an absolute load of total crap. how the hell is going with a prostitute child abuse, and how are they supporting drug dealers. that statement goes back to the paul caused ireland conflict cos he didn't figh the government at that time.
Whoever said it wants to get a life, and legalise it, so that it can be monitored propperly, then perhaps you'd stop under age girls and boys prostituting themselves and they'd be safer, they could work in monitored areas where the punteres know the can pick girls up without getting done for it. Protects the girls and punters. It also helps keep it where it's less of a problem to innocent passers by being asked if they want business and stops peoples house prices dropping. a red light district can move to a new residential area over night, due to the police forcing the girls and punters to move on.
I can't believe our government has debated this sensitive issue and come out with such uninformed crap.
And It dilutes the seriousness of real child abuse, it's like the idiots who go round calling ex's pedos and stalkers or rapists. it's wrong and they should be made to withdraw the comments.
She should be sacked for making such comments :mad:

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Maybe it constitutes child abuse because some of the prostitutes can be as young as 12 years old.

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And some of these women turn to prostitution to fund their (or their pimps) drug habit.

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BW hope not because that is sick and disgusting a 12 year old kid being used to gratify some worthless immoral piece of excriment! What kind of society allows it to happen and does nothing until they are forced to! :mad:

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"I don't think most men who use prostitutes think of themselves


as child abusers, but they are," she told the Observer newspaper on Sunday.

She says Most men. That must mean most prostitutes are under age. Even if they are, and some are, that does make it child abuse. If the guy doesn't know they're under age, and she doesn't say that makes it under age sex, sex with a minor, what ever, but not child abuse. There are some who purposely go out and pick up under age girls up, now that is child abuse, but thats some, not most.

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It was in last Sunday's Observer that I read her comments. She stated that men (or women) who use prostitutes are child abusers. That as a comment from a Government minister is obviously wrong.

It was vehemently disputed as a fact by all child protection angencies. Child prostitution is a serious problem, and a sad inditment on society, but making stupid statements doesn't help their cause.

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if men who use prostitutes are child molestors does this make men who goto strip clubs perverts who look at naked children dancing on poles..?

theres a big difference between molesting a child and paying an adult for sex

foot note

no i havnt paid whores :p

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It was widely reported that Wayne Rooney was caught visiting a prostitute who was older than his Mother.

Hardly child abuse, unless you consider her the abuser.

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What I find most peculiar about this proposed policy is the selective trade discrimination involved. There appears to be an element of protection for the small enterprise here, which is curiously absent from other types of business. For instance, if I was the owner of a small grocers shop or pub there is very little I would be able to do to stop a giant ASDA, Tesco’s or Barracuda bar from opening nearby; yet by law, brothel size will be limited to just three working girls, with mega-brothels being illegal. On the other hand, from the consumer’s viewpoint, arguably a lack of such large establishments means failure to take advantage of economies of scale and thus provide downward price pressure for the buyer.

No doubt HM Revenue & Customs will welcome this measure. If there are currently an estimated 80,000 Ladies of the Night, with average earnings of fifty thousand quid, all undeclared for tax purposes, I make that fifteen thousand quid tax/NI loss per tart. In total, £1.2billion lost to the exchequer. Therefore I can see Gordon Brown’s grubby hands, rubbing in glee, behind all of this – legitimise and collect the tax! . Think what all that extra money could be spent on!

Irrespective of the economic debate on brothels, there is that minor matter of the moral issue. Most women, of course, believe that those men with regular partners pay prostitutes in order to have sex; this is however, rarely the case – men can just as easily have sex with their said partner. No, payment is for silence after and not having someone nagging you for the next three days (or whenever)

Anyway, should the maximum brothel size law ever be relaxed, I’ve just had a good idea for Hyndburn Council’s Church Gateway redevelopment scheme using the old Commercial hotel and Hargreaves whorehouse……

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Apparently they are to be called 'micro brothels'.

There can be, like Tealeaf said, up to three prostitutes (male or female,) working from the same premises.

They can apparently also employ a 'maid'. This is were they will come unstuck. If they advertise at the local job centre, they will have to advertise for a male, or female maid, otherwise they will be breaking the law regarding sex discrimination.;)

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Are they to control these brothels though, make sure the girls (or men) are clean, and free from std's, that they aren't being forced to do it, are in this country legally, and not sex slaves.
If not, why hasn't it been done properly, how can they tax something thats legal but not legal, not legit, girls that shouldn't be here.
In my opinion the gov have messed up big time with this.
The street prostitution in an ideal world wouldn't exist but it's not ideal and never will be, esp while they're pussy footing around with the brothels.
They should set up tollerance zones and police them. legit girls will use them, the underage won't. If I was looking for a girl, I'd rather pick one up in a legal zone thats camera'd and safe . It protects me from accusations and her from attack, to a certain degree.

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Madhatter, would you want one of these so called 'tolerance zones' where you live? If you wouldn't mind having one where you live....how would you propose to protect the children and young people of that area?

It is a very contentious issue. None of the problems will be easily solved as they are fraught with difficulties.

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protect children and young people from what? victimised young girls living hand to mouth?.......

.....we should aim to help these people not run scared from them.

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no Shaker.....protect them from seeing the negotiations and the used condoms and the used hypodermics......because all of those things go along with tolerance zones.

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For 'negotiations' perhaps read Kerb crawlers.

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i see your point, really i do but i doubt much is going to change!! no rubbish tip is going to suddenly appear full of 'used condoms and hypodermics'.

i mean no 'houses of ill repute' are going to suddenly spring up in our 'respectable areas'

these people know where the business is and it aint anywhere near the families Barratt estates

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Well, maybe not at the moment.....but there are residential areas that Are plagued by this kind of activity......I can remember reading of an action group that patrolled their own residential area to rid themselves of the nuisance of prostitutes and drug dealers...and this was in one of the so called respectable(affluent) areas of Liverpool.

And I am not talking of rubbish tip proportions of used condoms and syringes.......you don't need much of that kind of rubbish for it to become a hazard to children.

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I know that; but I think if anything there will be LESS of these type of, erm, 'products' on the streets.....afterall a lot of the working girls are being taken off the streets aren't they?

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I still would not hold your breath for these 'micro brothels'......I'm sure there won't be many residential areas who will welcome such trade.

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I dont know, I in no way condone prostitution but (in my cynical way of thinking) it may help reduce the number of rapes/sexual harrassement cases around here. We all know what sick and evil things come of blokes with too much testosterone/sexual frustration.

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Prostitution has and always will be around. As long as a bloke wants it and is willing to pay there will be a woman (or man) willing to take it.

The question as to "do you want it in your area?" will always result in a resounding "NO!" There was a pilot somewhere (Southampton rings a bell but don't quote me) where a tolerance zone was run around an industrial estate but I can't give you the results as they weren't published.

No Margaret no-one wants a brothel next door, but surely a tolerance zone from 9pm - 5am in an industrial estate can hurt very few people, as regards brothels why not follow the Amsterdam model?

Remember it will always be here do you want it policed and in a safe area or just anywhere the girls feel safe?

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Well MP you've asked some interresting questions there, I can see you've put some thought in to it.
Yes the tollerance zones are awkward to site because nobody wants them in their area, and if they are in a residential area, it's as bad as an illegal area, girl residents get harrased by punters asking if they're looking for business. A lot of the problems such as used condoms and needles you'd get in an illegal zone too, but legal zones tend to be out of residential areas. That to me is safer. I would rather have a legal one on an industrial estate than having one illegal one on my residential estate. Brothels don't generally cause problems mp, there are two in lutterworth in leics, they've een open years, and have always had two or more girls working at any one time. I've never heard of any problems with them, or complaints from neighbours, or residents of the town with or without children, never seen condoms or needles. They are the way forward as long as they're run properly. those two are, but I'm sure there are loads full of sex slaves down london. I'm sure you'll have some parlours in accy, why don't youy look it up, I'm sure george will tell you .

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Tolerance zones have been sited in the Netherlands, and also tested by some councils in this country including Edinburgh, and are usually in non-residential areas, primarily industrial parks.

If the Government were brave enough to legalise brothels and prostitution, instead of these mealy-mouthed compromises, it would mean the end of kerb crawling in residential areas, and the hassle that entails.

Just a point regarding a prevoious post, althought it's primarily men who are the customers of prostitutes, it's not always the case. There is a growing industry of male 'escort services' for women.

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yes rindy thats true, hows about we start a business up, studs4u, You do the northern branch I'll do the midland branch

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..................start?;)

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Its a long way to go for a shag though isn't it?

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Harwich ferry to Hooker van Holland, six hours.;)

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Short walk to the Duke of Wellington. Couple of minutes......:D sorry. :o

I don't have alot to say on the subject really, any weekend evening your'd get it for free in any pub, club or slap house in Blackpool.

I would like to see these people off the streets and into controlled and safe environments. Managed brothels would increase sexual health of the providers and punters would reduce NHS costs and increases cases of HIV and Aids and most of the increasing STDs. They would also be able to contribute to the treasury and the pimps, thugs and immigrant mafia would have less of an influence.

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There are, in fact, a number of 'managed houses' in the Hyndburn area. Until the local residents get wind of what is going on , all is fine. After that they act as though the devil himself is in residence. The kids in the area know nothing until their parents/guardians/other adults enlighten them!

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whats the problem here? no matter where you situate these dens , or whatever you want to call them ,they provide a service to the public! they have a living to make just like you are me thats the way they have been brought up! thats the way they will be! you choose the job you wanted , so did they so instead of forcing them to walk the streets let them have an office in a warm building, instead of littering the streets and asking the wrong question to the wrong person!

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if brothels are going to be legal why not create whore industrial estates out in the middle of nowhere like they do buisness estates..?

keep it out of residential areas

or designate areas like the green belt area but instead call it the white necklace area :D

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haha
Thats the problem with it, they've done neither, just allowed an extra girl to work legally, and a crack down on punters, like they've never had a crack down before, and like it will make a difference.
Who's paying for these crack downs that just move it from one residential area to another?

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Edinburgh tried a tollereance zone which worked for a while but there is a limit to what people will endure. Maybe its time for the dutch model.

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The one in Edinburgh failed because of where it was sited. It was gentrified, and people started living in what became a trendy area. It did work originally, and kept other residential areas clean and safe.

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has accy got a red light district? I don't think it has but i'm not sure.

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Its a cyber one in Accy Chat.....LOL..:) :D

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Alledgedly that is. It is definately XXX at times :D

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I worked in Womens Health before I retired......so I know about the health issues.....and Yes I do agree that these people will always be there.....and that they do need to be 'managed'......however, I do not think that having services like these provided will reduce the rapes and the sexual crimes.....because these crimes are not about the sex act per se......they are about the domination of one human being by another......for some people it is how they get their kicks.....and prostitutes don't always provide this kind of service.(Though I know some do - and very risky it is too)

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One professional lady that I came into contact with during my working life told me that even they were feeling the pinch......She told me that the 'Toms'
were now reluctant to pay for services as there were so many willing amateurs who would give it away for free (or the price of a drink).

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well yes when girls offer anything goes unprotected full sex for 15 quid shes right. I do believe they reduce sex crimes though. A lot of those guys desperate enough to use the services of a prostitute may well force themselves on a girl if theres no protitutes to have sex with.

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:eek: Your a cheeky b*****d!

No more 'mates rates' for you, guess who's prices have just doubled! ;) You'd better hope that you can still afford me! :D

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There are red light areas already. Shepherd Market in London is for the upmarket stuff, and just try walking around Soho in the evening. Same in any large city - even in small towns - remember the Barbary Coast?

Anything that keeps girls off the street and makes them safer is okay by me. Licensing will do away with a lot of the abuses, but I'm not sure it will stop pimping, even if it is by the "landlord". Using industrial estates may be a good idea, but they are empty and not very safe at nights - and once the mugging crowd catch on to the fact that there are punters turning up with hard cash, they could be less safe still.

A previously well-known "lady" had a flat in our block once (before I lived there) and apparently the number of visitors grew exponentially! They didn't bother anybody else, so where's the problem.

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I know the governments view on this - and also the Torys; but does anyone know what is the opinion of the Liberal Democrats' on this issue? I I think their spokesman is called Oaten. Has he had 'owt to say on prostitutes?

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Oooo cheeky tealeaf ;)