Strike Action
 

Just out of curiosity i'm wondering how many Accy Web members are on strike tomorrow, fighting for their pension rights? (I'm on strike.)

My daughter thinks it's great because we've got a letter home from her school (Mount Carmel) saying it's shut tomorrow, and i do know of a few other school closeures as well.

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I'm not actually on strike but I'm not required to work because the school is closed to pupils.

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yea blackburn college closed too.

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Im sooo pleased my kids didnt bring a letter home so presume their school is open - yippee:D

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I work for a company where most of the staff are on strike but because I am not a union member I am not allowed to strike (explanation in my journal), but I have taken leave as support as it affects my pension too. But my lads are at school tomorrow though:)

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Yup my younger brother is off from Mount Carmel tomorrow...can I just say why was there nothing like this when I was there?!!!

Methinks we shall be getting up to no good at all in the morrow!!!:D

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What I would like to understand is why do you think that you as public servants should be treat differently to the rest of the working public?

As I understand it you get the equivilant of final salary schemes paid at 60 whilst the rest of us have to manage on money purchase schemes with target age of 65.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

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It looks like they are falling into line with the rest of the country. My company ended its final salary scheme a few years ago. All new employees are on money purchase. Th old fianl scheme still stands for those who originally got it (for now)

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I didn't realise you worked for LCC. I thought it was a private housing association.

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It is, but because the company was created through a stock transfer from the council all the staff transferred from the council too, so part of the agreement was they could keep their LG pension. I joined after the transfer but was also offered the pension

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I missed a final salary scheme with Barclays by 6 months.

What makes me laugh in the press is that the Daily Mails etc of this world lambast companies for shutting final salary scemes yet this was exactly what its owners did themselves. Then they have the cheek to complain when final salary schemes are being pillaged for the funds by gordon brown, co secrataries etc.

Money purcahse schemes may not pay out the levels of teh best FS schemes but at least yoe know the money will be there when you retire.

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Sounds odd, non LCC people on LCC pensions.

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im drawing my pension, ill be a spectator on this one.

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You'd be amazed there are a few. I think it may have harmed the transfer if they hadn't agreed as many have been paying into this pension for years! It's quite normal for the pension to be transferred to the company the employee has had to move to in the case of privatisation

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I am with Entwisi on this one. Why should local government workers and civil servants be treated differently than the rest of the working population? What makes them so special?

As we have seen with any department of HBC you care to mention, it is not as if they do a particularly good job, or are super-efficient.

And why is it that the rest of us poor schmucks will be the ones who have to fork out and pay for this through increases in council tax.

If you lot want to retire at sixty - fine! Good luck to you.

But I think that you are the ones who should be paying for it,


And I think that it is disgraceful that services which we pay for should be disrupted simply because you cannot get your own way.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...106449,00.html

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Where do I apply for my refund on my council tax?

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I can't speak for council workers but I can speak for midwives and nurses and say that working until 65 or 70 would be completely impossible.

At present, nursing staff can still retire earlier, similar to the police and fire services. We won't be entitled to state pensions any earlier than anybody else, it will be our own pensions that we access from 60 ish, or so I believe. Pensions that some of us will have paid into for 40 years, in other words.......our money.

It has always been understood within nursing that as public sector workers we have had much worse pay and conditions than private sector workers. Early retirement was the only perk, in return for years of underpaid service. I know that if I'd have worked privately as a nurse, I would have earned more and had more perks of the job. However, I would have had to contribute much more to a private pension in order to get the same benefits, so ultimately it wasn't worth the extra money working in the private sector.

I do think that there are many jobs which would be detrimental to the health of the worker, if they were to do them beyond the age of 60. Being a desk jockey is not one of them. I can understand the care assistants protesting, it can be a heavy, nasty job wiping bums for a living, but council office workers........ :rolleyes:

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yes but i draw my pension & a private pension that i paid into & i get taxed on the private one & its not much either that im getting so do we win? is it worth it?

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And that goes for workers in the real world as well.
Am I supposed to expect my 60 year old electrition to be as able as my 24 year old one. Would any 60 year old's like to try climbing a 40 foot vertical ladder to check a fan motor is ok, repairs faulty gantry cranes 45 feet from the ground above a melt furnace ( its a tad warm up there ) or work 5 feet from cast iron pouring at 1400 degrees centigrade?
So what shall I do fire him becasue he may not be as capable as he once was or look after him by giving him lighter type jobs as often as I can?

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Just out of curiosity i'm wondering what it is you are striking for Sara? I am a little confused by this pension thing so any information would help.

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I might be able to help on that one Neil. It's about what they call the 85 year rule. Currently if your age and your continuous length of service comes to 85 years then you will be entitled to a full pension when reaching the age of 60. This is the part they are trying to abolish.

But the rules on state pension remain the same as everyone else.

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yep that sounds about right. I joined the scheme at the age of 31, I would only satisfy the 85 year rule after working to the age of 58. (58 years old + 27 years service). But it doesn't mean everyone can just retire when they reach that age and if they do they don't just get the pension paid out! unless they take a reduction.

I understand what people are saying about why should this pension be any different than others, but then why should we accept changes to something we signed up for!! And we do pay quite a large contribution, so no it's not paid for by the govt!
Strike was a last resort as this has been discussed back and forth for over a year. As I have mentioned before I am not on strike today as I am not part of a union, but I have taken leave to show my support as the pension issue does affect me!

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I saw 'em too, this morning. The only thing they got off me was a very clear "V" sign; it was not for victory.

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thats it exactly willow. Its a bit like signing up for a fixed mortgage and then suddenly being told oh we're stopping that now before the term of the agreement ends. If they were to say anyone who now joins the scheme will not have this clause in their pension then thats fair enough as you have the choice to sign or not. But to make an agreement and then just accept any changes they feel like making.... why should anyone accept that???

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I work underneath a council building (we rent space off them) and they control our heating. They are all on strike today and have turned the heating off. I'm sat here in my coat and scarf with a mini heater pointed at me and it's still cold.

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Office buildings must be over 16 C or you can go home on full pay

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HR said it all Neil, so i won't repeat what she's said. But i signed up for the pension 12+ years ago, expecting to retire at 60 but now they're saying i can't retire with a pension until i'm 65. And i certainly don't want to work until i'm 65.

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It does appear rather unfair they want to make changes for people already in the scheme. I can understand changing it for new employees though.
Do you not think yourselves very lucky to have been employed by the same organisation for the rule 85 to apply to you? Maybe 20 or 30 years ago but not anymore. There is no such thing as job for life anymore.

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Well, if you don't want to work until you're 65, then don't. Retire.But at the same time don't expect the taxpayer to cough up for your life of leisure. Everyone else has to retire at 65 - or even 68 - so why should an unproductive & overpaid public sector "worker" be any different? Here are a few home truths:

1) Average incomes among public sector workers are now higher than in the private sector.

2) Unlike in the private sector, public sector pensions are paid directly out of funds received from general taxation. Those pensions are indexed linked, unlike private sector pension funds whose value may fall depending on the income generated from investments.

3) In the last 9 years, the public sector FTA-equivalent payroll has increased by 600,000; public sector productivity, as defined by measurable outputs, has seen a year-on-year decline over the same period.

4) All these additional jobs need paying for; hence the tax burden has increased from 37% to 43%; but not only that, the government is borrowing billions each year to pay for it all.

5) What do we get in return? Not much is the simple answer. Apart from a few good Doctors & Nurses, we're lumped with policeman who can't police, teachers who can't teach, and a whole plethora of whinging, wastrel bureaucrats who are neither use nor ornament. Sack the bloody lot of 'em is the simple answer; we'll all be better off.

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I was trying to stay out of this argument but couldnt. Public sector workers can if they want at 60 but where I am now you do retire at 60 which if I stay that long will have to do. A hypothetical question is "what does a 60 year old do until the state pension kicks in?" I cant see that many jobs being available and as my pension is not FS but a private pension and therefore succeptable to the whims of brokers on a stockmarket.

I am not knocking your rights but some of us have the opposite and are having to live with it.

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Covered under the Factories Act IIRC

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I would give my manager 30 mins to supply heating or I would go. In fact I did, At work the heating is turned off in the building I work at weekends to save energy(it seats approx 1500 people. I went in one weekend and it was 13 C. I rang my boss and told him if there wasn't heating supplied within 30 mins I would go home. He rang teh project manager who I was workimg for who went and brought an oil filled radiator for under my desk. The next weekend there were 6 waiting for anyone who was working.

There is nothing wrong with standing your ground. In fact most managers appreciate it as it means they know you won't let stuff go for an easy life.

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Rest assured we found a heater and it warmed up a bit. We do need to have a word with the people upstairs though, it was a bit out of order to turn the heating off because they were striking. We're nothing to do with them and we weren't striking.

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I am with Sara.. if you are employed by someone and your pension is taken into account then this is a contract.. everyone has the right to strike, but most of the people that oppose strikes are contractors.. they work for X.. amout per hour .. but if the X isint enough they don't work..so they technically strike

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Oh I am! :p :D :p :D :p :D

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some people joined the civil service (on low wages) because of the security of pensions.. now they are told it means nothing..I agree with the strike

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I personally think that a large number of civil servants do a poor job and don't deserve the excellent terms and conditions they get. Many Council services would be much better carried out by contractors. By this I don't mean little companies set up to take over privatised Council services comprised of ex-Council workers. For example Hyndburn Homes. I really can't see them doing any better than HBC did. The problem is with the workforce and managers. They don't appear to be accountable for their actions like us working for private companies. If I stuff up at work I could and would be disciplined for it, ultimately I could be sacked on competance grounds. I can't ever see that happening at a Council.
It's silly things they do like having park keepers start work while it is still dark. This morning the road sweeper came round before 8am, the streets are still full of cars so whats the point of trying to sweep them? If they started after 9am then they would catch litter dropped by school children as well.
What are the managers at HBC actually doing to improve the service they give to us?
The way it comes across is that they don't need to make any improvements, they are in a 'job for life' so why bother?
I know this is not true for all of them, I have met several that are very committed. Like usual though the good ones are out weighed by the many bad ones.

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Who says Civil service has been low paid?

IMHO it is normally higher than private sector

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lets's strike- anarchy for the UK!!!!

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The fact is that succesive govenments over the last 50 or so years have increased the number of pen pushers. This is at national county and local level. Now they cannot afford the pensions on the 85 year rule so the answer is what the private sector has to do and that is become lean and mean. Then the could still have 85 year rule forthose who remain. The civil service is now growing fast than it ever has since Augustus Ceaser created the Roman civil service.

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i don't think it's just the civil service. what about council workers that we actually need??? cleaners etc.. i think they have a fair gripe. you pay into a pension fund, you draw from it when you retire. WHEN you're meant to retire without the goalposts being moved. We're not talking rich people here we're talking about the man in the street.

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I recall that the majority of the british public were against the miners strike in the 80's... holding the country to ransom! what happend.. no more miners 50,000 60,000 70,000 people put on the dole and now we get our coal from poland.. if you want your civil services run from India then go ahead..denonce this action.

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My potshot was at those who would find it hard to justify their job as in big salary big desk actual job err pass not the ones at the frontline.

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Why should the real workers suffer just because they've taken on too many pen pushers though. Some work very hard and do an excelllent job.
I agree with the strike, they signed up to a scheme, on contract, and now it's been changed. That can't be right.
I don't see how you can say they shouldn't be entitled to it if they've been offered it, they signed up for it, they've paid in to it, they've stayed with the same company for all those years to get it, when thay might otherwise have gone off and got a better paid job.
It's a perk thats been offered and descisions have been made based on it.
I didn't work anyway, I've only worked monday so far.

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Why not? Terms and conditions are changed all the time out here in the real world. We now have a situaton at work where people loose pay if they are off sick in the form of waiting days. That wasn't in the contract when they joined up but it is now.

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I thought it was wrong for people to strike, my sister had a day of school and she can't afford it, she has her g.c.s.e's in a few weeks and there are people striking about pensions, at least let some youngsters get a decent education so they can get a job and a foot on the pension ladder! :rolleyes:

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Doesn't make it right though, just because they can do it.
Doesn't mean that the people who are going to loose out should just shut up and suffer. Too many people in this country just sit back and let others do what they want to them, and it's only when a union gets involved does anything get done.