Accrington Pals project
 

Hyndburn Women's Forum has applied for some money to run a project which looks at the socio-economic impact on the town of the loss of a generation of men in the first world war - The Accrington Pals.

As the 1st July this year is the 90th anniversary of the battle of the somme this seems an appropriate time to do it. There are lots of other activities going on around the same time, including Oswaldtwistle Players radio dramatisation of the play, Baxenen Bash are holding an event and of course, the council is planning some activities.

The end result of the HWF project would be a travelling exhibition which could be placed in public buildings and schools, there would also be a website. It would be an educational tool on the way women lived at the time.

So, whilst the aim would be to commemorate the Pals, it would mostly be a look at the way world events changed the women of the town's lives forever.

As part of the application requirements we have been asked to do further consultation. So, this is a genuine request for help and suport please.

Could you please give your opinions or comments on this initiative? Bear in mind that I will be sending this to the funding body as part of the consulation process and it could affect whether they decide to fund the project or not!

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

This is something the whole town sould get behind without all the usual bickering about funding. Those lads and men died for the freedoms we enjoy and should never ever be forgotton or pushed to one side! Hope it dosnt fall at the final hurdle Gayle.

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

What is the point
What will it REALLY achieve?
I say its a waste of money

I know everyones going to comform against my comments (most of you agree with each other just to be popular)

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

It well help keep alive the memory of the people who gave their lives for our freedom, and the women and children these young men left behind.

From such a crass comment, I think there is every need for people to be educated about this tragic event in our town's history.

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well why don't we keep some happy memories alive instead of death and misery

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I see from your past posts you are a practising Muslim, why don't you show some innitative yourself and apply for funding to show the good things young Muslims are doing in the community instead of criticising this project?

What do you know about the Accrington Pals?

Wouldn't you like to learn more?

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Here Here Spuggie thats the most important thing to remember & a subject i hold with greatest respect!!!

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i think that the money should be spent on bringing the accy community together by showing how similar islam and christianity are. especially with the divides in todays society

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There could be money found for that but WWI killed men of all faiths and they stood as one. Maybe we should learn from that and be richer of mind and soul for it.

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Good idea.:)

This project though is seeking funding for something else.

A whole generation of this town's men were killed on one day, fighting for our freedoms.

I think it's quite clever of Gayle to seek funding based on the fact that women and children were left behind to carry on with their lives.

If fundind is given it won't cosy you a penny Kash, and you might learn something.

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

Without the unfortunate episodes of death and misery we would not be here. The Muslim world fought for its rights from the time of the crusades so that the countries of that faith have their independence without which the British Empire of old might still hold sway.

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Popular has nothing to do with it its how you feel in your heart to what is on the post. Members here have stuck to their guns about something that others find they have the opposite view to. The result can be a very invigorating discussion to which both sides see the point of the other and agree to disagree. If "just to be popular" was what happened here the sites purpose would be defeated and just drift slowley away. You are entitled to your view and most "seasoned members" will respect it if followed up by a proper argument as to your reasons for your view. To commemorate something that was world changing and the end result is the people Gayle is trying to remember is in my opinion VERY NOBLE and shows the appriciation of those that died. Those that died at Serre where not the only victims as Gayle hopes to show.

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It happened a long time ago, from this how will it help the Women of today?
We already know of the impact it had as a lot of people grew up with it and our grandparents told us how it affected them.
How is it commemorating the pals or am I missing something? Commemorating means To honor the memory of with a ceremony or To serve as a memorial to, don't see how this does it.

I know we all revere the Pals and anything said that opposes that view is deemed sacraligous but come on this is getting money using the Pals name.

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whenever someone wants some money for a project/ innitative all they do is make a link to the pals, thinking the money will come flooding in

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

Gayle,
I'd support the project, covering as it does an area which up to now has been largely neglected.
I would though suggest that you take in the impact of the town's war dead as a whole. Although the devastating losses suffered by the Pals on 1st July 1916 had a traumatic effect on the town at the time, they didn't amount to the loss of a generation. The casualty rate among Accrington men in 1917 and 1918 equalled and even surpassed that of 1916.
Although we are right to commemorate the Pals, in doing so we should never forget the majority of Accrington men who served and died with other units.
I look forward to hearing more about the project, and hope to be involved in it.
Kind regards,
Andrew

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

Thank You.

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it always worries me when we start talking 'socio-economic'. Thats business bull**** for 'the real world'. I have a LOT of respect for those who fought and died in teh 2 world wars(My dad fought in far east in WW2). those of us with common sense already know that the women left behind were hero's as much as those fightng in foreign fields. They worked hard and continued to bring up families in what were despicable conditions when compared with today.

Why do we feel the need to waste countless thousands of pounds that could be used far more efficiently because someone feels we need to have this obscure understanding of what in reality we all know. Life was hard, they got on with it without consideration of what someone 90 years later would give the title of "A Socio-economic study of the effect of WW1 on Accrington".

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It was the time scale that made the Accrington Pals so noteworthy, and I disagree, it was a whole generation of men that was killed in such a few short hours, and hence were unable to afterwards fulfil their roles as sons/husbands/fathers etc. afterwards.

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anyone interested in the history of WW1 should check out a book called "Paris1919" by Margaret Mcmillan ,a history proffesor at one of Toronto's universities , it gives a great insight about all the scheming/wheeling / dealing and backstabbing that went on by the politicians of all the allied countries after the armistice at the Paris peace conference ,it explains the economic reasons that led up to WW2 (excessive reparations etc) its available in paperback and in my opinion (which is worth nowt) should be used in schools as a history textbook and should be compulsory for any politician

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...because a lot of people still don't know.

My Mum was born after her Dad was killed in Normandy, aged twenty two. The consequences of war still live on for a lot of people, and the sacrifices made by both men and women should never be forgotten, no matter how many years later.

Blood wasn't shed in vain, and if this funding can enlighten even one person so much the better.

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I think it is a lovely idea Gayle, albeit on the back of the Accrington Pals, would find it very interesting to see how the town's male population has recovered from both the losses in the 2 world wars and anecdotes from the women and children after the event and how they got on with their lives. Surely, someone has written a book somewhere on this subject, although not necessarily Accrington.

Think might be a good idea to talk to all the football widows this week too >> bet some good stories there :)

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Enlighten them to what?

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People always have ideas on how funding can be spent in a better way Kash, and, yes, I agree at some stage what you suggest is a good idea. I would like to know a little more of islamic and muslim women, 'cause I have created in my mind, this picture of subservience, fixed marriages, ostracism if refusal to comply, the pressure to produce a son, to wear those restrictive garments
most of the time and to have no opinions of your own. All very scarey to me.

YES, YES, I know this is probably not the case so pleeese don't come back at me, 'cause some will be absolute rubbish, but that's why I would support you in this idea at some stage.

Back to the thread however; I would just see it as an enjoyable part of our history in Human Geography and as you can see by the Nostalgic threads on here, lots of us do enjoy this. I believe that you can live better in the present if you know something of the past and the history of your surroundings and maybe the word 'enlighten' can be looked at from two different aspects.

After all, would the Accy football fans be celebrating so much this week if they had not been enlightened on the history of the club and it's ups and downs.

So let's all be taught how we have recovered from awful events in the town's history and celebrate this. Mines a bacardi and coke in The Stag :D

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People always have ideas on how funding can be spent in a better way Kash, and, yes, I agree at some stage what you suggest is a good idea. I would like to know a little more of islamic and muslim women, 'cause I have created in my mind, this picture of subservience, fixed marriages, ostracism if refusal to comply, the pressure to produce a son, to wear those restrictive garments
most of the time and to have no opinions of your own. All very scarey to me.

YES, YES, I know this is probably not the case so pleeese don't come back at me, 'cause some will be absolute rubbish, but that's why I would support you in this idea at some stage.

Back to the thread however; I would just see it as an enjoyable part of our history in Human Geography and as you can see by the Nostalgic threads on here, lots of us do enjoy this. I believe that you can live better in the present if you know something of the past and the history of your surroundings and maybe the word 'enlighten' can be looked at from two different aspects.

After all, would the Accy football fans be celebrating so much this week if they had not been enlightened on the history of the club and it's ups and downs.

So let's all be taught how we have recovered from awful events in the town's history and celebrate this. Mines a bacardi and coke in The Stag :D

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People always have ideas on how funding can be spent in a better way Kash, and, yes, I agree at some stage what you suggest is a good idea. I would like to know a little more of islamic and muslim women, 'cause I have created in my mind, this picture of subservience, fixed marriages, ostracism if refusal to comply, the pressure to produce a son, to wear those restrictive garments
most of the time and to have no opinions of your own. All very scarey to me.

YES, YES, I know this is probably not the case so pleeese don't come back at me, 'cause some will be absolute rubbish, but that's why I would support you in this idea at some stage.

Back to the thread however; I would just see it as an enjoyable part of our history in Human Geography and as you can see by the Nostalgic threads on here, lots of us do enjoy this. I believe that you can live better in the present if you know something of the past and the history of your surroundings and maybe the word 'enlighten' can be looked at from two different aspects.

After all, would the Accy football fans be celebrating so much this week if they had not been enlightened on the history of the club and it's ups and downs.

So let's all be taught how we have recovered from awful events in the town's history and celebrate this. Mines a bacardi and coke in The Stag :D

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Oh sugar !!!! How did that triple happen !!! Kept telling me network error.
Please delete two mods. before all opponents to my opinion tell me how stupid I am :bingobang

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That the freedoms we enjoy today were hard won, at the cost of a lot of people's lives. Both those that gave their lives and those that were left behind, incuding my Mum who grew up without her Dad.

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There is already a lot of money due to come into this area this year because it is the year of the Festival of Muslim Cultures. From what I understand there are going to be many events bringing the accy community together and celebrating the similarities and diversity between the cultures.

It's not a case of getting some money and having to choose which one we want to spend it on, it's a case of saying shall we go for some funding for an Accrington Pals project? The two things are not the same issue or the same pot of money for that matter!

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You forgot the bit about the American General that forcast what would happen (Pershing) and that the squabbling over reperations in part lead to the USA not joining the League of Nations.

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Thats not what the project is about, it going to tell us how the town changed for women, you already know this, how is that going to enlighten someone unless your going to get an anti war agenda which I don't think the pc brigade in Accy would even dare to surgest.

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

I should imagine the background as to why nearly a whole batalion of men were wiped out in a few hours, might be mentioned in passing.

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

I'm not convinced this "project" should cost anything .. money for what?.. the research will likley be done on the web or from books.. so how much funding do you need?

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The Generals of the day Haig Gough Plummer etc thought that if you bludgened the enemy hard enough you could beat him. The Western Front was a war of attrition which was a bit daft as the American Civil war showed the men attacking a fixed defensive line always came of worse. Chuck in the fact that the shelling turned the place into a muddy moonscape did not help. A certain party just wanted the tommies to open a gap for the cavelry and even in later battles did exactly the same. The young men of Britain were cannon fodder literaly. The country lost a generation and those that survived were in many cases crippled and proberly could not earn a shilling for there families. I for one only have a vague idea about how the women coped with those who came back and those that didnt. In a time when it would have been hard enough on families how did they cope? There would have been no welfare state or pensions as such so it must have been horrendous. Today we live in a society that looks after the unfortunate with free health care social security payments etc but what of those poor families? I think it will be very educational as we have it so damned easy today.

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

So on the back of that we have a project funded, which would mostly be a look at the way world events changed the women of the town's lives forever.
How about the effect about the men who didn't go or the import of labour or Despite the mainstream Labour Party's support for the Coalition, they were instrumental in opposing mobilisation through organisations such as the Non Conscription Fellowship based in Accrington and surrounding areas.

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

I presume Gayle is applying for the funding from the woman's perspective, but I think all aspects of the tradgedy will be covered. Personally I think that's quite a novel way of getting funds that wouldn't be otherwise available.

I don't really see your gripe, it's not costing us anything indirectly. Plus it will be great to hear the play on the radio, which incidentally doesn't focus on the feamale perspective, and people that get to hear it might learn something important about out town's history.

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

Sorry G just needed a discussion that didn't include the fluff thats been on recently.:D

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Don't know whether you're apologising to me or Garinda but either way your views are important.

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

Actualy Garinda, what have I done to upset you?

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

Nothing, it was just my thread that started it! That's why I was questioning it!

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

:) No matey, I'm not upset at all. In fact I'm relishing the debate we've had, because it's been a bit sluggish on here lately, so thanks.:)

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

There is a slight problem here. If you are thinking of putting togeather a travelling exhibit of the Pals, then you are mainly concerned with the events leading up to and then occuring on 1st July 1916 in France. However, if you are talking about the wider socio-economic impact of WW1 on the town then you have to take into account the following relative number:-
Despite the carnage sustained on the morning of that fateful day, the dead (& missing) of that battle represent only about 1 in 10 of the total losses sustained by the men who joined up from Accy and the area. ( Andrew Jackson can possibly give a more accurate figure). All the rest - several thousand - were killed while serving with other East Lancs battalions, other infantry regiments - such as the Lancashire Fusiliers - others corps, and other services. They lie dead not only on the Somme, but in the mud of Ypres and Passendale, the beaches of Gallipoli and in the desert of Iraq.

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Re: Accrington Pals project
 

A very good point Mr Tealeaf. My Great Grandfather lost his leg in 1917 while serving with the Kings Liverpool Regiment in France. He was born in Blackburn, but spent all of his Adult/Married life in Accrington, specifically Stanley Street where he lived from the First War until his death in 1955. After losing his leg he joined the 22nd Labour Corp and continued to serve until the wars end.

The impact of the loss of the Pals was a major blow to the Town. However, many others served in other Regiments and other theatres of war, as well as hundreds of men who served underground in our mines or in the foundries producing Iron and Steel for the effort. Many of those men served and died without memorial in the town.

I accept and appalled Gayle efforts to reflect the impact of the First World War on those left behind in Accrington, but I would feel more supportive if it reflected to war in Total and not just the tragic loss suffered by the heroic Pals Regiments of East Lancashire…..

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I'm not sure yet....:D :D :D . Sorry, yeah your right there Busman :)

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It will pay for some freelance workers to deliver workshops in schools, do the research, write the education packs and will pay local businesses who will do the printing and web design. All the money will come into the local economy as HWF is non profit making and made up of all volunteers (although having said that, if any of them actually 'deliver' any of the work they will be paid the fair rate for it). I personally get paid £200 per month for working for the forum but that's already covered by funding that we got from the Big Lottery ages ago for that purpose. If I was to deliver any workshops then I'd get paid the going workshop rate as would anybody else who was doing the work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busman747 2) What figure are we talking about, £hundreds or £thousands?

The total that we are applying for is in the region of £25k - that will all go into the local economy as described above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busman747 3) Who ARE The Hyndburn Womens Forum? (Another of my pet hates is predudice against men like "Womens Institute," "Shelter for Battered Wives" (I witnessed the wounds today of a man that was hit repeatedly by his "partner" who also trashed their car and refused to report it, the idiot is returning to the house tonight because she phoned to say "sorry!":mad: ) and all the other quango financed institutions that are aimed at women only.

Hyndburn Women's Forum was formed about 12 years ago. Their aim at that time was to put on an event to celebrate International Women's Day on 8th March each year. Now, it just happens to be the name of the group of women who get together to organise various community events - last year we did the VE/VJ event at the Town Hall which wasn't a specifically women's orientated event. If we raise any money through raffles and stuff it tends to be donated to the Women's Centre but that's not what we're about. Basically, you need to be a group formed by constitution to go for any of this sort of funding so we sort of use it for those means. Our basic aim, I guess you could say, is celebrating women - that's why the main focus of this project would be to look at the women who held it all together back home whilst the men went off to war.

Quote:

Originally Posted by busman747 4) How will information be attained? - - - and

Not sure what your question is but we'll be looking at interviewing descendents of the Pals and people who have stories to tell about them. We'll be using some of the regular resources i.e. library and internet as well but as our focus is on the women they won't tell us everything that we'll need to know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by busman747 5) Lastly, will the information received become public knowledge - in a book? local press? internet?

Part of the funding is to produce an education pack which will be held at local libraries and issued to schools. It's also hoped that it will be transfered on to a website aimed at the education angle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by busman747 If the answers to these questions are favourable, then you have my full support Gayle :)

Hope that helps.

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

It will pay for some freelance workers to deliver workshops in schools, do the research, write the education packs and will pay local businesses who will do the printing and web design.

I appreciate your honesty Gayle in answering my questions but to me it is just a way of giving funds to those that are in favour with political parties or politicians that seek future favours from business people.

HWF is non profit making and made up of all volunteers

So what exactly will the HWF be doing if they are non-payed volunteers?

I personally get paid £200 per month for working for the forum

Not bad for a forum that is non-profit making, Do you realise that you are earning 25% of MY full time wages - and being paid from a group that do not make a profit?:confused:


but that's already covered by funding that we got from the Big Lottery ages ago for that purpose.

The lottery has such a big turnover simply because many dream of winning the "big one" - and to many, getting £50-00 extra a week would be a dream come true.

Their aim at that time was to put on an event to celebrate International Women's Day on 8th March each year.

I wonder how much is funded to celebrate St. Georges Day this year?:confused:

Sorry Gayle, I would love to support you but I personally feel that the whole project is motivated by people including yourself that are doing it for personal gain and using up funds that SHOULD NOT have been released by central government. Quango's should NOT be fed money like this especially when the finances of the nation are in such a critical state. Monies from Gordon Brown should be fed into local councils to ensure that tangible priorities like refuse, road repairs, hospices, the list is endless and NHS are topped up in order to maintain the standards we and our parents have paid for all our lives.

Take away the quango's = Billions more into OUR economy, paying for the things that really matter. THIS is why your proposal of a panopticon was rejected by the majority of Accy webbers.

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

It will pay for some freelance workers to deliver workshops in schools, do the research, write the education packs and will pay local businesses who will do the printing and web design.

I appreciate your honesty Gayle in answering my questions but to me it is just a way of giving funds to those that are in favour with political parties or politicians that seek future favours from business people.

Sorry, but that bit's just not true.

HWF is non profit making and made up of all volunteers

So what exactly will the HWF be doing if they are non-payed volunteers?

The people who represent the committee of HWF are volunteers in the same way that other people volunteer for community groups - they're either retired or they have other full time jobs.

I personally get paid £200 per month for working for the forum

Not bad for a forum that is non-profit making, Do you realise that you are earning 25% of MY full time wages - and being paid from a group that do not make a profit?:confused:

I work very hard for HWF - I am being honest about what I get paid for them. And I only get paid for eight months out of twelve.



but that's already covered by funding that we got from the Big Lottery ages ago for that purpose.

The lottery has such a big turnover simply because many dream of winning the "big one" - and to many, getting £50-00 extra a week would be a dream come true.

I agree but people play the lottery because they want to win millions. The money that is raised is then available for people to apply for. Hyndburn is one of the least well funded places in the country because local community groups don't apply for funding. That means that money that people round here pay into the lottery is going to other areas of the country so this area is well and truly missing out.

Their aim at that time was to put on an event to celebrate International Women's Day on 8th March each year.

I wonder how much is funded to celebrate St. Georges Day this year?:confused:

I don't know - we didn't apply for anything but then again, did any other local group? I suppose we could do in future years. It wasn't a concious decision to ignore St George's Day but HWF can't do everything.

Sorry Gayle, I would love to support you but I personally feel that the whole project is motivated by people including yourself that are doing it for personal gain and using up funds that SHOULD NOT have been released by central government.

Heritage funding is also lottery funded so not central government at all.

Quango's should NOT be fed money like this especially when the finances of the nation are in such a critical state.

Obviously understand your dislike of Quangos - it puts an unnecessary level of adminstration in that wastes money and shouldn't be there in the first place. I can't argue with you on that but the fact is that they are there and to get some of the money back into the area you have to work the system.

Monies from Gordon Brown should be fed into local councils to ensure that tangible priorities like refuse, road repairs, hospices, the list is endless and NHS are topped up in order to maintain the standards we and our parents have paid for all our lives.

Take away the quango's = Billions more into OUR economy, paying for the things that really matter.

Again, can't argue but money has been allocated to certain pots - i.e. sports, arts, culture etc - it's not a case of us on the ground saying can we have this money but we don't want to spend it on sports, arts, culture, we want to spend it on hospitals etc. It's a case of the money being made available for specific reasons and people tapping into that. Whilst I can't argue that hospitals, road repairs etc are far more important than arts and sport, we aren't taking it from pots that have been allocated to those things.

THIS is why your proposal of a panopticon was rejected by the majority of Accy webbers.

Sorry, but that's the same argument. Whether you agree with the way the funding is structured in this country or not, isn't the issue here. The money for the panopticon was from a pot of money that had already been allocated to the arts whether we used it or not. By us not using it, it didn't get ploughed into a hospital it most probably will be reallocated to an alternative art project somewhere else in the country.

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Thank you and I don't disagree with you about quangos, I just believe that you should work the system if the system can't be changed. If the money's out there I think as much as possible should be brought into our area and not to fund more quangos but to actually make a difference - i.e. either paying for local services and/or put on events that are relevant to local people.

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Not a question I can answer I'm afraid. Like I said, I'm just working a system that's already there! :D

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Without wishing to appear as a stooge for Gayle, as we have vastly differing opinions on a number of issues, if that is the way funding is handed out, without people like her looking for inventive ways to secure money for the borough, Hyndburn would miss out yet again, and I do think the project sounds worthwile, for us and future generations.

As for the comments about Hyndburn Women's Forum. I don't suppose there is anything to stop somebody from starting a men's forum, if they see fit. After all our forefathers started Working Men's Clubs all over Hyndburn.

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Yes but "men only" bars in working mens clubs were banned many years ago because they were "sexist!"

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You are right. Although Gayle said that the Hyndburn Women's Forum's events are open to all, including men, can the male of the species join?

I presume they legally could....go on Busman, give it a try.:D

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Yes Willow it does look a lot like madness to most people, that is the problem, they don't understand how the "pots of money" work so are too quick to be against the money spending. That is the way it is though at the moment and we are, for now at least stuck with it. I think it would be more like madness if we all sat on our backsides and did nothing with this available money while people in neighbouring Borough's used it, don't you.

As an example: Rhyddings park has a nice new (2 year old) play area, there is nothing wrong with it and the kids enjoy using it. If there was a pot of money that was only for play areas and we could get a grant to double its size to allow more children to play, should we:

a) Say thank you very much for the money and double the play area size
or
b) Say no thanks the play area is ok and we don't want to spend any money on the play area when the paths need repairing - even though you can't give us the money to repair them and can only give it us for the play area.

I see the Panopticon has cropped up again. I wonder if anyone actually bothered to find out what people were really against. Was it the actual design, location or the fact that they thought the £50,000 (I think it was that much) could be better spent on other things?

Whoops that got a bit woffley - I best go and get some decorating done before my brain over heats.

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

There IS a pot of money available for parks at the moment. It's for councils to apply for and you'll notice that the first deadline for applications has passed at the end of march. Did our council apply for any money? You guess!!!


http://www.biglottery.org.uk/program...ople/index.htm

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

The War Widow's was a pittance until the conflict in the Falklands, and was taxable until 1979. For thousands of women it didn't replace the earnings that their dead husbands would have earned in wages, and many families struggled to make ends meet.

I think the fact that this project will remember something that happened ninety years ago matters not one iota. From some of the crass comments in this post, I think it shows there is every need for more education about the Accrington Pals. It's indirectly costing us nothing.

If people wish to commemerate some other aspect of war, and remember the British people who are giving their lives even now, I hope they would show some initiative, and seek some of the funding that's available, instead of criticising this one.

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Re: Accrington Pals project
 

Well said Willow. The way that lottery proceeds are spent is a disgrace. It involves umpteen quango's and thousands of bureaucrats, none of whom are accountable to anyone; they make crackpot decisions on expenditure mainly based upon how well a form has been completed. Is it any wonder that lottery participation is now half of when it began 10 years or so ago?

The simple solution would be to allocate post prize-proceeds to the area in which the money is raised, with maybe a bit going to a "county" pot and a bit going to a "national pot", i.e. 70% goes to Hyndburn/20% is spent on Lancashire projects and 10% goes into the national pot. The local coucil - who are answerable to the electorate - would be responsible for deciding priorities. The overall take would invariably rise because a) there would no longer be stupid expenditure on unwarrented projects and b) people would see the money spent where it was raised.

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

It was all making sense Tealeaf until the bit below

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

Well, at least the council are answerable to us. We can vote 'em out. As things stand with the current lottery "Good Causes", now't makes sense & there is bu**ar all we can do about it.

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

Yes but as Gayle has said, currently this is how financial grants are given, if no one tries to secure funding we won't get anything. You have to work within the system, unless you are planning a revolution.;)

Go anywhere in the country, and the two things people might have heard of regarding Accy is Accrington Stanley and the Accrington Pals. Though suprisingly some younger people in our town don't seem to know much about it.

Admitedly there are lots of people from our area who were killed in other wars and conflicts, my own twenty two year old grandfather being one, but this shouldn't be used as an argument for this project not going ahead in my humble opinion.

Remember, and learn from history, and hopefully the future will be brighter for all of us.

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

Maybe we could do with a revolution. :D

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

With large or small wheel. :p

As G said the younger people not knowing much is a disgrace. They proberly know more about the EU than they do about the First World War. :(

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

You set up the guillotine, I'll grab my knitting.;)

Vive la revolution!

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

Maybe because the EU is more relevent than WWI

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

Whilst I like the idea of your system Tealeaf there still would be some sort of application system - how else would a Council or any other body know that a group required funding. They couldn't just hand out money to all community groups without some assessment of some sort. Therefore, whether you give the power to the bureaucrats in an office elsewhere or you give the power to someone who sits in Hyndburn they would still be working a similar system.

I have sat on judging panels for the CVS in Hyndburn. We had over £50k to dish out but applications that totalled £80k, some groups were unsuccessful in getting the money they wanted. The panels were made up of local people who were involved in community groups and so in a sense the idea was that applications were being judged by your peers. The problem was that everyone had their own agenda - some people didn't like groups in a certain town getting money, some people didn't want certain ethnic groups to get anything and some people would reject forms simply for them being written in red ink or the like. At least you could argue that someone who is outside of the area is judging all applications objectively.

As for the Pals project, I understand your ideas Willow to incorporate other war victims in the project, but every project can not be all things to all people all of the time. This project has come about for a few reasons

1. Heritage lottery has made money available for this type of project throughout the country.
2. It is the 90th anniversary of the Battle of the Somme and therefore pertinent to do a project in Hyndburn around them this year.
3. Hyndburn Women's Forum focuses it's projects on things that are relevant to women therefore, a look at the way life was lived at home and the way the women coped could be of interest to the people of the town.

I don't know what the answer is to the way funds are allocated, I don't like the endless bureaucrats and quangos particularly myself but, and this is the big BUT - this money is available for this sort of project and I believe that any investment of any sort should be brought into the town.

It just so happens that I am quite good at filling in these forms and have been quite successful in getting the funding for some local groups. I see a pot of money out there and think yes, there are groups in Hyndburn that should benefit from this so I try to find a way of it happening.

The money that these groups get from funding like this doesn't just go into their bank accounts and then left there - IT GETS SPENT! It gets spent on printing, hire of venues, freelance staff and the actual infrastructure of making these things happen, etc, etc. You can be sure that the majority if not all of the funding is SPENT in Hyndburn thus benefitting the entire economy of the town.

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

Whilst I like the idea of your system Tealeaf there still would be some sort of application system - how else would a Council or any other body know that a group required funding. They couldn't just hand out money to all community groups without some assessment of some sort. Therefore, whether you give the power to the bureaucrats in an office elsewhere or you give the power to someone who sits in Hyndburn they would still be working a similar system.

I have sat on judging panels for the CVS in Hyndburn. We had over £50k to dish out but applications that totalled £80k, some groups were unsuccessful in getting the money they wanted. The panels were made up of local people who were involved in community groups and so in a sense the idea was that applications were being judged by your peers. The problem was that everyone had their own agenda - some people didn't like groups in a certain town getting money, some people didn't want certain ethnic groups to get anything and some people would reject forms simply for them being written in red ink or the like. At least you could argue that someone who is outside of the area is judging all applications objectively.

As for the Pals project, I understand your ideas Willow to incorporate other war victims in the project, but every project can not be all things to all people all of the time. This project has come about for a few reasons

1. Heritage lottery has made money available for this type of project throughout the country.
2. It is the 90th anniversary of the Battle of the Somme and therefore pertinent to do a project in Hyndburn around them this year.
3. Hyndburn Women's Forum focuses it's projects on things that are relevant to women therefore, a look at the way life was lived at home and the way the women coped could be of interest to the people of the town.

I don't know what the answer is to the way funds are allocated, I don't like the endless bureaucrats and quangos particularly myself but, and this is the big BUT - this money is available for this sort of project and I believe that any investment of any sort should be brought into the town.

It just so happens that I am quite good at filling in these forms and have been quite successful in getting the funding for some local groups. I see a pot of money out there and think yes, there are groups in Hyndburn that should benefit from this so I try to find a way of it happening.

The money that these groups get from funding like this doesn't just go into their bank accounts and then left there - IT GETS SPENT! It gets spent on printing, hire of venues, freelance staff and the actual infrastructure of making these things happen, etc, etc. You can be sure that the majority if not all of the funding is SPENT in Hyndburn thus benefitting the entire economy of the town.

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

The EU is in part a direct result of both world wars, if you have the slightest bit of interest in the history our country.

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

As war has always been fought for economic benifit orginisations like the EU though a pain in the Arthur at times have helped stave of little wars over resources. Germany in WW1 felt intimidated by the B.E's trade power. In WWII they wanted space to live, Japan wanted access to the resources of the Pacific. Iraq comes down in the end in some part to oil. Suez was an economic war which only ended because the USA used its economic weight to subdue it (black gold restricted). Soldiers died for the economics of the day so if lessons can be learned even if to some think its "ancient history" then those that sacrificed themselves for us can be remembered for what we gained.

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

That not true. People are voting for it every time they get their pound out of their pocket and buy a ticket.

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

I agree with you there Willow. If people wanted to give money to good causes they would hand their £1 to a charity box. They buy the lottery ticket to win a million and rationalise it in their mind by saying some of it goes to a good cause.

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

That's why I continually offer to groups to help them get the funding they need. I don't know how many times I've offered on here to help community groups and can I tell you how many people on here who have taken me up on the offer - a big zero! I do it for free and because I think the money should be coming to Hyndburn, it takes an hour or so of my time to get the bones of the bid written for them and I leave them to complete the details.

But just for a minute put yourself in the position of a judging panel - you get two applications in but only have enough money to decide. One of them has all the questions answered and justifies why they need the money and how they need the money, the second one simply says we live in an old folks home and we need some money. It is not enough to say 'we need the money', everyone needs the money - there has to be some way to judge it. How many people will benefit, what ages are they, is it an event or to buy them some books, have they held the event before, have they had any funding before and how did they spend it, will visitors get to enjoy it or is it just for residents, can they not raise money through holding raffles, are they a reputable old folks home or is it just a group of old friends who share a house, can they prove that?

They can not send adjudicators out for every single small award so they have to ask questions so they know whether it's a genuine needy request.

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

Can I stress that I don't get paid for this sort of stuff other than through Hyndburn Women's Forum which is a different sort of set up because I actually deliver the events as well.

But they don't pay if they don't get the money - the principle is that funder finders add 10% or so onto the bid and that pays them.

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

I don't see a problem with that in principal. It is like paying a project manager to manage your project isn't it?

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

That's how most funder finders work, yes Neil.

You have to ask the question - if you need £4,500 to run a project, build an extension to a youth club, hold an event - are you able to get that money on your own? If the answer is that you would probably be refused funding then surely it makes sense to have a professional, or even a knowlegeable amateur, apply for £5,000, pay them £500 if you get the money and have your £4,500 awarded to you.

As it happens, I don't personally charge at the moment because the odd few that I do don't really take up too much time but I did at one time consider doing it professionally. Obviously, if I was elected I'd continue to do it for free as I would consider it part of the remit of being a councillor but if I don't get elected then it's certainly an option.

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

It may alarm several webbers on here to learn that our primary age children are not taught a great deal of local history;indeed my 10 year old had been taught nothing about the Accrington Pals until she took a magazine article in about the Pals and asked why they hadn't studied the story. The following week thay had a guest speaker in school to talk about the Pals and had to do research about it as a project.I would give Gayle's project my approval if it helps to educate both adults and children about the Town's loss.

Re: Accrington Pals project
 

Oh, well, another defeat this week.

We just heard that we didn't get the funding for this project that we'd applied for. It happens sometimes and as I've said on other threads worthy projects sometimes get refused. It's a shame because I think it was an interesting project that could have been a benefit to the town but it was being judged by someone who probably has never heard of Accrington and has no idea what relevance the Pals have to this day in the area.