War! hun What is it good for?
 

Three years after the second Gulf war started, what has it achieved?

This weekend saw a helicopter shot down in Basra, formerly considered a safe/friendly area for British troops. Not only did the Iraqis celebrate by dancing in the street, but when further British troops came to assist, they were attacked by a hostile crowd throwing missiles and petrol bombs.

How many more British troops are going to die?

How many more millions of pounds are we going to spend?

What has this war achieved in three years? Absloutely nothing, except for the removal of Saddam Hussain, which I should imagine the majority of his country men would welcome back if it meant the return of infrastructure no longer there, including water and electricity, and the end of curfews etc. He may have gassed Kurds, but Iraq wasn't on the verge of civil war. Iraq is no more stable, or western friendly, than it was three years ago.

Blair should realise that the shedding of any more British blood isn't worth it, and should withdraw troops as soon as possible.

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

His buddy Geo W wont allow him. Blair is in fear and awe of the Bush dude and doesnt want a caning for not doing as he is told. He follows Geo like a little terrier. The money spent could have been spent on more important things at home. Alas bussiness and political needs ie oil will not allow a pull out in my view.

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

The problem is (and I did not agree with the war in the first instance) that if we do pull out now teh country would descend into total chaos and militia rule. Someone does need to be there untill the Iraqi goverment have had chance to put some infrastructure back in place

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

I also don't think Blair can withdraw them until the country is stable for the reasons entwisi has already given. Only time will tell if this war has been a waste of human life. Yes I see your point Rind about the people of Iraq resenting the Forces there and they would proboably prefer them to leave but I really disagree with the beating Blair up over sending them in to fight originally, it must have taken an enormous amount of soul searching on his part whether it was the right thing to do, I personally would hate being in the position were I had to make that kind of a decision.

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

Although I didn't support the war, I agree with Entwisti now - it would be wrong to leave the mess behind.

I also don't think Blair went into it lightly, imagine the hardest decision you've ever had to make in your life and then multiply it by a 1000. Plus, whilst we're perfectly capable of discussing this in hindsight what we have to remember is that Blair had all the information - all the information that we've got to base our judgment on has been fed to us by newspapers! We know how trustworthy they are don't we?

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

About as trustworthy as our government.

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

It seems that the Coallition has started something they can't finish. An attempt to bring freedom and democracy to a place of dictatorship rule by a bonkers tyrant seemed the best idea going, right? Wrong.
It seems Bush reacted out of sheer panic; seeing his country at an all time morale low after 9/11 & being unable to catch the instigator no matter how many acres of Afghanistan they bomb. The country was becoming ever more anti-government. Perfect situation to start a 'war on terror'. (hmm...contradiction?)
So what has actually been acheived? Nothing. A somewhat ageing dictator has been thrown out at indefinable expense of life & money - a war started at laughable reason has left a country in turmoil; robbed of all dignity & assets by the blood thirsty westerners.
If there was ever a volatile time at risk of Holy War; it is now.
In my opinion things are only going to get worse.

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

I agree with the general jist of your post Gayle...however; how many WMD's found to date?
The date Blair announced war was the day I lost faith in Britain's leaders as a whole.
Every single one of them - bent over to absurd 'Yosemite Sam-esque' Americanism.
Whatever happened to Blake's Jerusalem in England's green & pleasant land? I do believe it now resides in George W. Bush's laundry basket.
:o
Who'd have ever thought it? Embarassed to be British.

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

Yes that Iraq under Saddam had weapons of mass desruction, which we know now it clearly didn't.

Doesn't fill you with confidence about the inelligence services in the west.

I too agree that an immediate withdrawl is impossible, but the process should be hurried up, and be realistically done as soon as possible.

(By the way the thread title should read 'War! huh What is it good for?' Not hun.:( My mistake, good job I didn't sing it to you.)

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

Erm ..... If I remember right, didn't Sadman make it virtually impossible for the weapons inspectors to do their job?

Once in the country it was the first thing they did, check the areas for wmd that they hadn't been able to investigate.

Not to check what that crazy swine was up to in his country could have been disatrous. OK so they didn't find wmd but at least now we know for definite that he didn't have any.

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

John Lennon's song Imagine,,, seems unachievable ..Its getting like Soddem and Gomorra .i.m.h.o.

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

At what expense?
Hans Blix confirmed to the UN that Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction. Yet this was deemed advice not to take heed of and go bomb the bloody place anyway.
Way to hustlllleeee.

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

No one will ever know now will they!

How many more people would have been murdered at his hands had he not been stopped?

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

We were told they had evidence of weapons of mass desruction, they didn't.

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

I agree that Hussein's regime should have been removed. I have a big problem with the fact that war was most definitely not the last option available. Attempting to enforce democracy in a dictatorship country with an unreasoned force does not settle well with me.

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

True but there is also genocide in Angola. No western intervention there because it isn't strategically place near oil fields.

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

Yes but from the news items I saw Saddam himself tried to make it look like he had them. He was having large items moved during the night from compounds to other compounds which, IMHO, he was just generally trying to play a game that he lost. He never believed the coalition were serious, good God they gave him enough chances.

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

The way I see it; Hussein has won.
His evil slaughterings of innocent people are still being carried out, yet it is not at his expense anymore, it is at the expense of his enemies in the west.

Bush has succeeded in making him a martyr.

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

Yes I agree but on the scale of things the Governments have information we don't they must have assumed on the scale of things that he was the biggest threat.

Oil fields lol! That I give no credibility, again only my humble opinion, but it's just anti-war propganda.

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

I think that the people that lost are the ordinary Iraqis and the British and American service people who have given their lives, and for what? A country basically on the cusp of civil war, and a place where there isn't any law and order, and the loss of basic amenities that they enjoyed before.

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

A war based on assumption....scary huh?

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

You don't think the position of Iraq to the middle eastern oil fields played a part in both Gulf wars?

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one Tinks.

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

I disagree, quite probbly this generation of Iraq's won't benefit and I do feel great sympathy for them having to live in a country that is in absolute turmoil, that we, as a civilised country can only imagine but I do hope later generations benefit from coalition intervention.

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

Threat to whom?

Britain?

America?

I don't remember any aimed at those two countries.

I'm not anti-war by the way, but I think our troops should be used to protect our country, which they aren't doing placed like sitting ducks in Basra, and being cheered every time one of them dies, by the people they have supposedly liberated.

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

We will just have to disagree there; I do not believe that the generations of the future will benefit from this. Imagine seeing parents, sisters, brothers, aunts, uncles shot at the hands of 'evil men from the west with guns'.
Now forgive me if I sound too forthright here as I do not intend to generalise, but it is these young people that may well grow into the Osama Bin Ladens of tomorrow, fuelled by hatred towards the men that came into their country and killed.

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

Yes I agree with you to an extent. I just wish I wasn't so tired lol! I know what I mean it's just not coming out right.

Its ok saying none of his weapons were directed at Britain or America, he was a very dangerous man. Look back through history what happens when idiotic tyrants are given a free reign and go un-checked.

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

Well we'll agree then.:)

I'd just rather our troops were out looking for scum Al-Quada, where ever they might be lurking, home and abroad. They to me our more of a threat to Britain than Saddam ever personally was.

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

Ok Shaker just turn that one around for a moment, so it's ok to see their parents, sisters, brothers, aunts, uncles shot at the hands of their countries own leader?

Maybe, but wht else can you hope for except they will come to understand that democracy is a good thing.

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

agree fully with entwi in all he says, but i would add that any of our troops who witnessed the celebrations of the poor sods burning should have mowed the bloody lot down wether there where kids dancing or not,and if that offends anyone TOUGH.:mad:

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

i just have real heartfelt sympathy for the families of the boys who die out there.

RIP.

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

I think trying to run the place with one central govt. is proving to be a lost cause , the Turks ran the place for over 300 years as three separate and distinct ethnic provinces without too much trouble, it was only after WW1 when the British took over the area and wanted to run the place on the cheap that trouble began (assinating the non Iraqi King and and a couple of presidents).
Divide the country up into Kurd, Sunni and ****te areas with Govts. in Mosul, Baghdad and Basra and leave them to it , As with the former Yugoslavia ,(distinct ethnic groups),the place fell apart without a strong leader(dictator) , same with the Czechs and the Slovaks, communisn fell and the two ethnic groups went their own succesful way.
Maybe it's not Politically Correct to say , but some people are not ready for Democracy, (where the rights of the minority are respected and protected,) even in the west some groups prefer to vote for there "own kind" no matter what the politics of the candidate .

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

i just feel genuine heartfelt sympathy for the families of the soliders who die out there.

RIP

Re: War! hun What is it good for?
 

I have two or three issues with the whole of this.

Firstly, Who voted America World Police? I believe that no one country should ever have the right to go starting a war because they claim to feel threatened. They should be able to defend themselves if attacked but in NO WAY should they ever become the agressor. Iraq and Saddam have never been linked to Osama Bin Laden in any way shape or form, in fact I believe OBL actually is opposed to Saddam. WMDs have been proven to be a figment of American imagination.

Second: Democracy is 'our' view of a perfect state. Once again, we have a country who want to impose a way of life on another with NO proof that it will improve anything. There are a lot of people who believe Sharia law to be a perfect system. it is not for us to feel superior to them. Yes we see some things as barbaric and restrictive but that is because we see it from OUR viewpoint, not those whose believe in the system. There are two sides to every coin, it takes a lot to be able to see both sides in their own right.

The way the UN was effectively rode roughshod over scared me. It again showed that America will do what America wants with no regard for anyone else. The fact that a somewhat illiterate man is in charge of such a powerrful nation is plain scary. Whatever others think as has been pointed out elsewhere there are a lot of countries that have genocide issues yet because they have no oil they are left to get on with it.

These of course are my opinions and you are welcome to agree or disagree with them. I do though feel sorry for all those who have lost someone or have to live through pain and suffering because of this and all other wars.

Ian