Middle East Crisis
 

I do take alot of notice of media affairs but with the nice weather I've been neglecting the news for the last few days. What's all this about? Why's Lebonon and Israel going at one another? I can't get the gist of what's going on with the news. :confused: Can anyone put it into lay-mans terms for me please?

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my guess would be because they enjoy it :rolleyes:

lets face it every time you switch the news on and theres a "crisis " or "war" its one of those dirtback countries rowing over a piece if land or some religeous cause

the only way we will ever get world peace is if one day they actualy nuke each other :)

i gave up caring about them many years ago and i can even remember counties in the east been at war when i was a child :rolleyes:


oh and what a perfect excuse to bump petrol prices up yet again making us as usual the innocent victims in all this :mad:

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Our countrys hardly innocent.. Bush supports Israel and we support Bush ;)

(When I say We, I am of course refering to Blair)

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i thik blair and bush should be supported....


on a bloody rope :D

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Wow when did the U S and UK get run by one person each, thought it was 2 democratic countries, must have missed something, maybe you could explain how Bush/Blair support the Isreal in this conflict against Hezbulla?

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without taking sides, from what i can gather isreal is zapping lebanon cos hezbolla snaffled a couple of their soldiers, what really brasses me off is the isralis have snaffled hundreds of the other side pre this, so its ok for them to do it but not for the palestinians, no big deal in the press about this neither, and cyfr refering to us as (blair) your as two faced as the isralies, your lot has been the biggest supporter of the u.s. in my lifetime. is that laymans enough for you tinks?;)

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chav1 wrote........." oh and what a perfect excuse to bump petrol prices up yet again making us as usual the innocent victims in all this"

in my mind the innocent victims in all this are the Lebanese and Palestinian kids being bombed and shelled by the Isrealies

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I don't particularly care...but I do know that there are some very good last minute bargains going for 1-week holidays in Tel Aviv...lovely beach, evening firework display

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Ya know Tinks, I was looking forward to a straightforward explanation on this, as don't understand it all myself, but what do our wisemen of Accyweb choose to do? just personal clever comments on the situation and their feelings towards it and not exactly what it is all about in the first place.

Am I understanding your question correctly ??

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The Palestinians kidnapped an Israeli soldier and then later on the Lebanese pinched two.

This upset the Jews so they said, “Give us back our soldiers or else.”

The Palestinians and the Lebanese said, “Get knotted we are keeping them until you release our people.”

So without any further ado the Israelis showed that they do not bluff and started to knock ten bells out of Palestine and Lebanon. The Palestinians and Lebanese retaliated and we now have a mini war in the Middle East. Drat! This could severely and adversely influence the value of my Iraqi Dinar.

The Americans will not say boo to the Israelis because there is a powerful Jewish lobby in the states and in any case the Jews own most of American businesses.

Will that do you Tinkerbelle and anyone else who is puzzled by the events?

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Unfortunately most conflicts are bassed on religious intolerance. I am an RC of Irish desent, but I never agreed with the IRA or the other side either for that matter. how any one can kill or maim another human being in the name of any god is quite beyond me and I suposed most right minded people, but alas this is the way of the world today.

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Well, Jambutty, that was certainly lay-'woman's' terms ... thank you for passing on your expert knowledge as usual x

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Jambutty wrote ...."The Americans will not say boo to the Israelis because there is a powerful Jewish lobby in the states"

and Lord Levy (Tony Blairs financal fundraiser) is a graduate of Stonyhurst College ............. I think not

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Yes thankyou jambutty :)

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I don't really understand it either Tinks.

Israel has two soldiers captured in Lebanon, so they are firing misiles at Hazbellah soldiers but which are killing civilians?

Good to know that the two most important leaders in the western world today greeted each other, thinking they were off record, with
'Yo, Blair,'
and then talked about knitting!

Very reassuring.

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The Palestinians kidnapped an Israeli soldier and then later on the Lebanese pinched two.
Sorry wrong, Hezbulla kidnapped 2

This upset the Jews so they said, “Give us back our soldiers or else.”

The Palestinians and the Lebanese said, “Get knotted we are keeping them until you release our people.”

Wrong again, Lebanon said nothing, Hezbulla did it to increase conflict in the middle east. Hezbulla are backed by Iran and Syria and started as a terrorist organization after the 12 day war, when they started to run out of money they changed to an anti Jew and Christian organization and vowed to wipe Israel off the map, this of course got them a lot of money from Iran and Syria, after Syria got kicked out of Lebanon they armed Hezbulla with rockets and morters and small arms.

So without any further ado the Israelis showed that they do not bluff and started to knock ten bells out of Palestine and Lebanon. The Palestinians and Lebanese retaliated and we now have a mini war in the Middle East. Drat! This could severely and adversely influence the value of my Iraqi Dinar.

Not bad half right, The Israelis were already knocking seven bells out of the palastineans, but because of a rocket attack in northeren Israel by Hezbulla and the kidnapping of the 2 soldiers they decided to attack Hezbulla strong holds and villages. Your Iraqi Dinar is now worthless unless it has a picture of Saddam on it.

The Americans will not say boo to the Israelis because there is a powerful Jewish lobby in the states and in any case the Jews own most of American businesses.

Spot on.

So basically you have 4 sides to this Israel, Palastine (Hamas), Lebanon and Hezbulla.
Hezbulla are a terrorist organisation and on the UN list of Terrorists, they are backed by Syria and Iran and their mandate is to rid the world of Isreal by any means, a bit like the IRA did with the NI thing.
Lebanon don't have a strong enough goverment to throw them out and in fact they hold about 10 seats in the parliment, so it puts the goverment in a bad position because they can't condem Hezbulla as the rest of the world wants them too and if they side with them then Isreal will declare war on Lebanon. Obviously the UN will back Israel because you can't go around kidnapping soldiers and crossing in to enamy territory to do it.

Hope that helps :)

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There was a man from Blackburn on the local TV news last night. I don't know his ethnic background but he looked Arabic and had an Arabic name.

He'd recently returned from Lebanon, leaving his wife and children there still on holiday.

He said that if the British Government didn't evacuate his wife and children immediately, he would hold them personally responsible if anything happened to them.

Whilst it's understandable that he's worried about his family, unless the British Government paid for and forced him to take his family to a highly unstable part of the world for their holidays, he has to shoulder the responsibility for his actions, not anyone else.

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That depends on who you are and how you luck at it. They see themselves at war so to them it may just have been a recon mission that took prisoners.

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I have a friend who works at the American University in Beirut and we are trying to contact them at the moment, hopefully they don't do that courageous (stupid) thing of trying to sit it out.

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these countries arguments remind me of school yard arguments but on a greater scale

my dads bigger than your dad = my missiles are bigger than yours

he started it miss = they started it

thats my ball its got my name on it = thats my land we were there first

no its my ball he scribbled my name off and put his name on it = we were there before even you were

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Well, in the next few days you are going to see on your TV news, pictures of a mini-armada assembled off the coast of Lebanon; you will see a large Royal Navy presence, togeather with elements of the US 6th fleet, French & Italian warships plus a number of civilian ships. This will be to provide the logistical and defensive support for an "Air Bridge" between the Levant and Cyprus. The question is will this be suffuicient to avoid casualties amongst the evacuees?

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My you are being pedantic Bazf. The Hezbolla are a faction of the Arabic Lebanese. The Christian Lebanese are the piggy in the middle.

Both Palestine and Lebanon have told the Israelis that they can have their soldiers back if they can have their people back. They reinforced their terms by chucking a few missiles at Israel. Israel responded, as they do, with a greater force back, so Hezbolla upped the anti some.

My explanation was as simple as I could get without getting bogged down in details.

However this Israeli problem goes back further than many people realise. 4,500 years or so to be exact!

Thousands of years ago when God instructed the Israelites to throw off the tyrannical shackles of the Egyptians and head for the Promised Land he failed to mention that it was already occupied. But the Israelites being God fearing men and women did as they were told and soon were obliged to attack Jericho, kill all the incumbents and take it over. Ai came next and one city after another fell to the Israelites until the whole of Palestine became Israel.

Then Christianity came into being and around 550 AD Islam was born and was embraced by the bulk of the Arab countries in the Middle East. Christianity was too close to Judaism for the Arab to become a Christian so he became a Muslim. The Arabs took back Jerusalem and the surrounding country and the Jews scattered around the Western world. This sparked the Crusades as Christians fought Arabs but it ended up as a score draw.

WWII saw the Jews leave Europe with Hitler chasing after them and head for the States, in the main. Being Jews and therefore excellent at making money, they made huge inroads into banking, jewellery and precious metals and the film industry plus many more lucrative business opportunities.

Then in 1948 The Palestinian problem was solved by the British, in that they created the state of Israel where it is today – more or less and many of the exiles flocked back to reposes Jerusalem and the surrounding country. Naturally the Palestinians were unhappy with such a solution and have been trying to get their land back ever since then.

The Israelites, or Jews as we know them today never had any land of their own because they were born into Egyptian slavery and they took Israel by force.

The Israelis in what they called their home land of Israel in modern times had the backing of millions of Jews worldwide and particularly from the richest country in the World – the USA, which is why Bush will not raise a finger against the Jews.

I think that just about sums it up.

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Errr....not quite,Jambut. You've missed the spagetti-eaters destroying Jeruselem in 70AD and the removal of many jews to Rome...and then in 135AD the suppression of the Bar Kochbas revolt, followed by the expulsion of the remaining jews. By the time Mohammed's lot turned up there were very jews left and this was still the case by the time of the Crusades.

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Much obliged for your addition Tealeaf but I didn’t want to confuse the issue with too many details. But you are correct in your addition. The crusades were Christian versus Muslim and didn’t have a great deal to do with the Jews but it still ended in a score draw.

If my remaining brain cell remembers correctly the request was for a simple explanation about the current Middle East Crisis. I tried to oblige.

The bottom line is, as someone has already stated, that religion has been the catalyst for just about every major conflict in the world and I doubt if the Middle East crisis will ever be resolved. Someone will feel hard done by no matter what solution is enforced.

Thank God I’m a non-believer!

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Sorry didn't mean to be pedantic but unlike daily mail readers I like to see a balanced view put across, it isn't Israel v Lebanon its Israel V Hizbulla and its factions, a bit like the British V IRA not the British V Southern Ireland.

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jambutty wrote........."Being Jews and therefore excellent at making money, they made huge inroads into banking, jewellery and precious metals and the film industry plus many more lucrative business opportunities."

Did you find this nugget of gold in your copy of Mein Kampf, I suppose you believe the above as a genetic fact....and also that Blacks are genetically better at athletics and genetically inferior as swimmers, you probably also believe that Eugenics is a legitimate branch of medicine.

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Don't forget that blacks also make amazingly good dancers and that the male of the species are hung like horses.

Maybe it's also true that infirm, elderly men are often cantankerous, but surely all aren't racist or generalise ethnic stereotypes?;)

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good thread everyone - its taught me a thing or two.

what i'm fearin is that wiht all foreign nationals being taken out of lebanon is this a precursor to an invasion? remember kuwait back in gulf war? same thing happened there as did in several african countries. the fact no one with a real say is willin to reign in israel to say ok u stop firing we'll secure the release of those soliders is rather alarming. with bush nothing better to say for an agenda than to ramble on about terrorism yet again things are goin to get alot worse i fear.

The UN asks for a ceasefire when in glory days past it would've stepped in and GOT a ceasefire. after yugoslavia its position in war was questionable the iraq war just blew it out of the water when USA totally ignored them and the UN just stood by to one country invading another.

what i was surprised about is the amount of canadians in lebanon - 40K. 8 of their country folk died in israeli bombin

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all i know is on the news tonight a british warship was granted a 2 hour window to sail in and evacuate people after that the safety of the ship could not be guaranteed, with the isralie blockade of the harbour, a 2 hour window? who the hell do they think they are? they are blockading the harbours and cant tell a british warship bulls***, this is a mercy mission by their allies, well sorry i think we should have forgot iraq and knocked the crap out of them, rant over do your worst.:engsmil:

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Not the same mani, Israel will not invade as they are not run by a dictator, they also don't claim that the Lebanon is part of their country as Saddam did. They may occupy parts of southern Lebanon and create a buffer zone to stop rocket attacks, but they have enough problems with the Palastinians with out creating more problems with occupation of another part of the middle east.

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Mani .....there are large Lebabese communities spread around the world , Australia has a large one, so has South Africa , in the "old" days prior to de-colinization in Africa lots of the bush trading stores in the remotest places were Lebanese owned. Probably due to them being bi-lingual in French , Canada seemed a good place to settle, I think most of the Canadians/Americans who are being evacuated out are second/third generation visiting family who have retired to the home country. Some of the nicest people you can meet , though the Druzes have some odd habits .

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this is quite saddening and disturbing...

http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m24753&l=i&size=1&hd=0

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Yes :p But I dont think our lot supports bush... I mean, the torys are banned from the white house last I heard :D

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i wouldnt put money on that cyfr.:D

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You are putting words into my post that are not there steeljack. There is absolutely nothing in my sentence that even hints at what you imply.

It simply states that Jews are very good at making money. It does not imply that other races are not.

I don’t condone what the Israeli nation is doing to Lebanon but you can hardly blame them for trying to protect their own. It was Hezbollah that opened an Israeli second front so the Jews retaliated. People will say that they have gone over the top and they may have but that is the Jewish way with enemies of the state. Smack them down hard. They did it in Syria and Egypt and neither of those countries is keen to tangle with them again, yet if not actually friends, they are not bitter enemies any more. Commerce has triumphed over hate.

The Israelis only want peaceful co-existence in an Arab world. Whether they have the right to the land that is now known as Israel is a moot point. Historically they do not but how far back in history do you go to establish land rights?

Israel came into being in 1948 as decreed by the British and backed by the USA. Most of the world recognises Israel as an independent state of the Jews and it is only a few hotheads who want the land back.

It is a sad fact that in all conflicts the civilian population will also suffer. However it could be argued that the civilian population is part of the fighting force and thus a legitimate target. If nothing else the taxes that they pay that are used to arm the warriors makes them correspondents at arms. They may not like the way that their taxes are being used but they voted for the government in office.

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i think this says it all really

from 2morro's paper

http://www.independent.co.uk/multime...06_170715a.jpg

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Mani , totally agree, just unfortunate that it will never be printed in the US ,