UK Airports at high alert
 

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

Well done to the security services.
It sounds like they have saved many, many lives.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

I will give it 24 hours before the first solicitors appear on TV whinging about their clients' wrongful arrest, police discrimination against muslims, all the fault of Israel attacking Lebanon, blah, blah, blah.......

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

It never ceases to amaze me how so called security experts alleged to be aligned to HM Government come on our TVs and under the international media spotlight provide vital information to so called potential terrorises.

One came on this morning stated that the larger the number of people involved in a cell the higher the chances of discovery. OK this is not rocket science, but it is something that this particular group seems to have missed, however, now their replacements will know to work in isolation of larger groups in minimal cells.

Outcome: higher success rate amongst terrorises cells and a higher death toll amongst the British and International population.

I also can’t believe that people are bleating about having to wait for a flight.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

I was also annoyed about the passengers bleating on about cancelled flights. One was complaining that they weren't being told anything - err, hang on, you've been told that there is a threat to the flight and that it's been cancelled for your safety, what more do you need to know? Plus, don't you think the airline staff might be a little busy at the moment making sure that their planes aren't bombed? Some people take selfishness to the nth degree.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

Well thank God it was foiled!! The news is saying that the scale of this plot was massive!!

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

All the passengers that I have seen on TV this morning have been praising the airports and the staff saying that the security measures are important and that everything is well organised and controlled.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

Apparently the ferry ports are also on high alert. I suppose they are just being careful.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

I have had to text Sparks this morning with the news. he is due to fly back into Heathrow from Siberia (via Moscow) tomorrow lunchtime, and get a domestic flight back to Manchester. Hopefully things will be a little more organised by then and that flights will be landing. I hope that things are sorted soon but safety of passengers is paramount.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

More like the 18:00 news. Dispite what the Asian police boss said about the A.T laws discriminating they are there to stop what was planned.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

It looks like the Gov. means to show these people they mean business and are happy to announce it to all and sundry.

These terrorists might work in isolation and small groups from here on in but that might make it harder to for them to achieve their goal.

If some people want to get on the plane to their destination then make them sign a disclaimer that they are boarding a plane that hasnt been checked for a bomb. There will always be complaints its human nature but we could never stop that.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

from Reuters - it seemed that the plan was to blow up 9 aircraft simultaneously, some would have been over the sea, some possibly over towns and cities both here and USA, can you imagine the death toll both in the air and on the ground

Doesn't bear thinkin about !!

But no doubt they'll be whingeing on about how their human rights are being violated, about how its always British muslims that are being targeted

Thats cos its nobody else but them doing it !!

Anyone "understanding " or "sympathising with their plight" should have their British Citizenship revoked, whether born here or not

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

I would rather have the inconvenience of a delay ,than be zapped in the air...
The authorities are doing a great job,,,

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

Well done our intellegence i certainly think we are reaping what the gov have sown by allowing this country to be too soft when comes to immigration, only in this country can you come in & after a period of short time or less get benefits & access to facilities of this country!! Sorry im of attitude that these people whom are intent of not being British Citizens should be deported home, there are host of muslims who respect our country & customs also contribute considerabley, but theres a majority whom dont, than other to abuse this country in every sence of the word.

This softy pc approach is certainly pushed to its limits & any one from foreign decent that has intents of doing this country harm should be removed back to their country of decent rather than waste or risk our countries money!!

Our Country should be protected as with our values, we hare not going to be another Pakistan or wherever, we are england & this gov should realise this!! Christmas will not be cancelled, if we want piggy banks then we should have them - all other customs like even our English launguage to be spoken certinaly attempted - as other nationals respect that.

I read last week those of that failed bombing were staying in luxury 4-5* hotels plus all their family, erm do victims of serious life threatening cases get this treatment - no!

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

Blaming ironic my kids have home alone 2 on showing twin towers :eek: & yet another simular attempt has be foiled, what destination or damage where these dispicable cretins trying to achieve???

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

its about time people like this if convicted BEYOND reasonable doubt were instantly topped, sod the human rights brigade,sod the P.C. brigade, sod wether or not it make them martyers, at least if they are out of the game they cannot convert any ****** in prison who is due for release. therefore pushing more murdering scum back into society. and as for any passengers whinging about delays- sod them as well.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

here here cashy

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

Stand by for the civil and human rights brigade surfacing, and telling us, the victims, that what these terrorists were only expressing their point of view.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

Wonder if that lot will be on a plane soon.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

They wouldn't be martyrs if they buriied them in a mass grave ang filled it with pig entrails......but then that isn't PC is it? (Is killing innocent people PC? - the way our government act at times you'd think it was)

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

Screw PC what you propose is too good for them! Fireworks on and in sensitive places would be better.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

Some of you may recall a thread on here about a month ago which detailed lottery grant spending in Hyndburn; some of you may also recall the background of the 7/7 bombers from last year. Just as a reminder, at least two of those bombers had attended Madrasa schools in Pakistan, which teach an extreme version of the Koran and nowt else, and from which the July bombers got the theological justification for their acts. What then, has the former got to do with the latter?

Well, no one else appeared to spot it, but here is a paste from the list of lottery grant recipients:

Lords House Farm Special Needs Centre 1998-03-26 184792
Lords House Farm Special Needs Centre 2006-05-05 5000
Madrasa Saut-Ul-Quraan 2003-05-22 5000
Madrasa Saut-Ul-Quraan 2004-08-24 5000
Milnshaw Residents Association 2000-08-10 3462
Mount Carmel RC High School 2003-05-22 2940

Irrespective of whether such an organisation fulfills the lottery criteria of being open to all sections of society (women, gays, etc) , the question is what the hell is the lottery doing funding at worse a terrorist organisation and at best, one that is ambivalent and justifing of the acts which have been stopped today? No doubt we shall find that a number of those currently in custody have attended such an establishment.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

Food for thought considering what has happend;

REUTERS EXCERPT


Independent terrorism expert Paul Beaver said hand luggage was a weak spot in airport security. "Hold baggage and cargo can be sniffed for explosives. You can't do that for hand luggage at the moment. The technology is there, but it's time consuming and expensive."

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

in the spirit of the title of this thread i would like to contribute somthing ..

http://h1.ripway.com/dirtyboy30/terrorist/terrorist.jpg

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

Minister arrived on the camel terrorist in the merc is it?

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

I like that chav1:rofl38: :rofl38: :rofl38:I know this is a serious thread and i have been comming back to it at each post but chav really your post made me laugh sorry folks

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

We are all taking for granted that the security services were telling the whole truth. Remember a while back when Heathrow was surrounded by heavy armour, no less, because of a ‘security alert’. Just exactly how many ‘terrorists’ were brought to book then? Where were the rocket launchers that were supposed to bring down a plane as it landed or took off?

Then there was the intense search of that house for a chemical bomb that wasn’t there.

By a strange coincidence it was only the other day that the introduction of ID cards was back on the agenda. Then yesterday some Minister was pointing out that we the general public would have to accept a reduction in personal freedom and liberties as part of the battle against terrorism. And now we have this major alert because the security services stated that there MIGHT be bombs in hand luggage on up to 10 planes leaving for the USA.

To counter this threat the authorities decreed that only certain items contained in a clear plastic bag (supplied by the airport) would be allowed as ‘hand luggage’ with the remainder going into the hold with the main baggage. Strange how the airport just happened to have clear plastic bags to hand for this purpose. Or was it strange? Just how many bomb making bits of equipment have been found? No one is saying. Is that because nothing has been found?

If the security lot were so certain that an attack was imminent they must have had reasonable proof or at least a strong suspicion. Don’t forget that it is the top person who gives the order to react and how and that person is singing from the same hymn sheet as TB and his cronies. If they had reasonable proof then a court case should be in the wind, with convictions to follow. With a reported 21 people in custody helping the police with their enquiries I await the outcome with interest but I won’t be holding my breath.

However I am certain that the security got wind of something and over reacted to make a point to the public that they are on the ball just to try and convince the doubting Thomases. Such a reaction would also reinforce the need for ID cards and/or further controls of the public’s liberties. A bit like that house without a chemical bomb. I mean 250 men to raid a small house? Really!

I have no doubt that there are terrorist cells in operation in this country but this government has its own agenda to gain more and more control over Joe Public and is using such incidents to frighten us into get its own way.

If the terrorist leaders had more than half a brain cell between them, and I’m sure that they are a darned sight cleverer than most of us, they would know that by committing an explosive atrocity would only get the people’s backs up and a resolve not to give in. However false alarms with an occasional real event would keep the security services stretched beyond breaking point and frighten the hell out of the public. Even farmer Giles up in the hills.

Once an explosion has occurred it is done and dusted and can do no more harm. A false alarm disrupts normal life for far more people and for longer. We found out during WWII when some bombs did not explode on contact. We and the Germans later realised that the advantages of dropping dummy bombs was such that a good percentage of the ordinance dropped on each other’s cities were dummies.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

So are we creaping towards an Orwellian senario here?

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

This sort of thing plays right into the hands of extreme views - I'll bet this weekend there are binge drinkin louts who will start on some asian guy and a riot will occur in some part of the country - just watch

Cos of the bad feelin with holidays and travel disrupted and the massive scale of what they were planning there'll be some idiots spoilin for a fight

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

agree with most of the sentiments jambutty, but i think your wrong in thinking that all are taking for granted the security services are telling the truth, hence why i put BEYOND in capitals, don,t think for a minute that most take it as gospel, i think people are a bit wiser than that nowadays. i certainly would hope so.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

Just suppose for a moment that 10 planes have just blown up leaving UK airspace and in the mid-atlantic and on the US Eastern seaboard. I wonder what Jambut's post would be? A daming indictment of the failure of the security services? A tirade against muslim extremists? Or most likely, a simple "So what...let's get on with life.." ..because that is where his logic leads. Give me a few cracked guilty heads and a few people locked up than a thousand innocent dead anytime.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

In Ireland the Catholics and Protestants have bombed the hell out of each other for the last 30 years - are you saying that because I'm a Catholic over here I should be tarred with the same brush?

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

can i put the feathers on please :D

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

It makes a mockary of religion really & the abuse of it.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

Try as I might, I am unable to make any sense of this comment. Can someone help?

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

You know what I'm getting at!

You're saying that because Muslims who have been to one school in one part of the world are involved in atrocities that all Muslims who are connected to the same school in other parts of the world are as guilty.

My point is that the Catholics and Protestants have been involved in some pretty atrocious acts in Ireland but that doesn't mean that Catholics who learn the same teaching in England respond in the same way. I was using this as an example.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

What puzzles me is that the security forces knew it was going to be an attack on planes. I mean surely these people all had to arrive at the airport by some form of transport yet the security forces were waiting at the airport to get them. How did they know, with all certainty, that they weren't going to set the bombs off on the M25 or the train on the way?

This means that security forces either had an inside man or that the bombers are giving them information. Doesn't this worry people that the two sides are co-operating in some way?

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

Who else is involved in this conspiracy? The Jews? The Freemasons? Councillor Britcliffe?

Don't be a crackpot altogeather, Gayle. It is possible that the services had an inside man (or woman) or they may have not. They may have relied on a whistleblower or purely on covert surveillance and taps. We do not know. What is most likely, however, is that they would not have decided to move until they reached the point where they knew the widest possible circle of terrorists without compromising public safety. A catch of 21 is excellent, although no doubt we shall shortly be seeing before us a motley parade of civil rights lawyers protesting their clients innocence plus the human rights brigade spouting forth their usual late night TV rant on the abuse of state power.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

I think this is a case of the kettle calling the crackpot here. You were the one who had the whole, lottery based conspiracy going on. Surely it's not unreasonable to ask how they got such detailed information!

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

Gayle I think you have to accept that the current level of information is patchy and inconsistent. But really and this may pee people off, the security forces will have had firm intelligence of a change that cause this action to be taken. Stopping people at the airport was intended to stop unidentified individuals and copycat terrorist from carrying out their intentions after it became know the police had acted.

What is regretful is t you can not seal off the country and prevent the movements of a nation. If someone ignited a device on the motorway it may have killed a dozen people, in the air it might kill 3 or 4 hundred and untold number on the ground if a device was ignited over a major population centre. It’s a calculated risk the security services would take. I’m sorry if this is an unpopular statement.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

Totally would agree with you on this point though.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

Obviously at the time there was intelligence suggesting otherwise. You'd be the first person to jump up and say something if they didn't act when they had recieved intelligence.

Quote:

By a strange coincidence it was only the other day that the introduction of ID cards was back on the agenda. Then yesterday some Minister was pointing out that we the general public would have to accept a reduction in personal freedom and liberties as part of the battle against terrorism. And now we have this major alert because the security services stated that there MIGHT be bombs in hand luggage on up to 10 planes leaving for the USA.

Strange coincidence? Erm, the police don't listen to orders from our Government. You seem to be suggesting that really nothing was going to happen at all and that they're doing this to get ID cards passed, do you know how sillly that sounds?

Quote:

To counter this threat the authorities decreed that only certain items contained in a clear plastic bag (supplied by the airport) would be allowed as ‘hand luggage’ with the remainder going into the hold with the main baggage. Strange how the airport just happened to have clear plastic bags to hand for this purpose. Or was it strange? Just how many bomb making bits of equipment have been found? No one is saying. Is that because nothing has been found?

Strange how they 'just happened to have clear plastic bags to hand for this purpose'
WHAT? Just think about what you're saying, first of all how hard is it to aquire plasic bags if you don't already have them?
Second, do you not think they plan things like this in advance? They knew about the threat for a while, and im sure the airports have planned stuff like this since 9/11 at least.
Nothings been found because nobody said it was going to happen today, it could be tomorrow, it could be next week. They are there to stop copycat attacks.

Quote:

If the terrorist leaders had more than half a brain cell between them, and I’m sure that they are a darned sight cleverer than most of us, they would know that by committing an explosive atrocity would only get the people’s backs up and a resolve not to give in. However false alarms with an occasional real event would keep the security services stretched beyond breaking point and frighten the hell out of the public. Even farmer Giles up in the hills.

They don't have more than half a brain sell between them do they, they're blowing each other up for gods sake.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

And let's be glad that is what we shall see, rather than some form of un-British (and, I hope, un-American) summary justice! The right to legal counsel, a fair trial, and a vigorous legal defense is one of the things that makes our countries pretty special. If we give up our most basic and cherished rights, then the terrorirsts will have gained a very significant victory.

That said, I certainly hope that the government is well-prepared to prosecute any terrorists!

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

That may well have been true 20 or even 10 years ago Billcat, but unfortunatly what was once the common legal inheritance of both the US and England, stretching all the way back to Magna Carta, no longer applies in the latter case.

We have sold out to the European concepts of justice and human rights with the result that a multitude of summary obstacles now stand in the way of any successful prosecution of those committing acts of terrorism within or against the UK. We have a publicly funded legal industry whose sole purpose is no longer the execution of natural justice but to make money for it's practitioners, be they solicitors, barristers or court of appeal judges. That is why a dozen Afgan Hijackers are free to walk the streets of this country, why extremist clerics are free to preach hatred and promote violence and why child pornographers can claim damages of hundreds of thousands for a minor wound suffered in the course of an anti-terrorist raid. All of them, by the way, in receipt of free state housing and public doles.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

I don't think that you are being fair to the pigs.:engsmil:

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

It's not often I agree with Mick chav, but this time I do. That was soooo funny.
Even in such a serious thread there is room for chav humour.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

just a quick note

the madrassa is a monestary of sorts. its basic aim is to teach students about the quran and memorise it etc. now wat u have realise is that as there isnt a set agenda in the world of all madrassa some have been opened up with the aim to recruit and hence have their own agenda and from that agenda teach them.

those types of madrassa's are a bane to not just western countries but to countries like pakistan. pakistan's president has had numerous assasination attempts on him and each time they've been linked to such places. foreign students in any madrassa's are now banned. but the problem is a madrassa under any other name is still a madrassa.

but coming back to the ones htat got the lottery grant - what u have to remember is all education is monitored by the govt and in this case by the mcb too. so the chance of such a place goin rogue are incredibly slim.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

Yep, it's started...Fahad Ansar of the Islamic Human Rights Commission has said that the whole police operation is a cynical ploy by the Government aimed at "diverting attention away from its policy in the Middle East".

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

Well they did cause heaps of disruption and because of this my weekend off is canned. We have a couple of truck loads of material caught up in it and we wont get it untill lunchtime tommorow instead of today. :(

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

I'suppose thats he other acheivement of terrorism is to effect the economy & flow of the Country as bonus to taking innocent lives.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

They did it big style. Some of the material is needed urgently and is holding up orders. :(

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

Quote:

Obviously at the time there was intelligence suggesting otherwise. You'd be the first person to jump up and say something if they didn't act when they had recieved intelligence.

The intelligence was obviously flawed Cyfr because so far no one has been charged and taken to court. Both incidents were wolf cries.

Quote:

Strange coincidence? Erm, the police don't listen to orders from our Government. You seem to be suggesting that really nothing was going to happen at all and that they're doing this to get ID cards passed, do you know how sillly that sounds?

Can I remind you that we do not live in a police state yet! The police, MI5 and MI6 are responsible to Parliament and where national security is concerned and public disruption called for the go ahead comes from the government. Do you now realise how stupid your assertion that the police don’t listen to orders from the Government sounds?

Quote:

Strange how they 'just happened to have clear plastic bags to hand for this purpose' WHAT? Just think about what you're saying, first of all how hard is it to aquire plasic bags if you don't already have them? Second, do you not think they plan things like this in advance? They knew about the threat for a while, and im sure the airports have planned stuff like this since 9/11 at least. Nothings been found because nobody said it was going to happen today, it could be tomorrow, it could be next week. They are there to stop copycat attacks.

You are making my case for me Cyfr. I’m quite sure that it would be easy to get hold of clear plastic bags, but during the morning when the alert first occurred? So they must have had them in stock already. Why? Oh! I see! A copycat was it. By definition copycat means that it has occurred before. Do tell when was the last time that hand luggage was suspect to the degree that it was banned from the plane cabin? You’re talking nonsense!

If you think that the terrorists don’t have more than half a brain cell between them then keep on sticking your head in the sand.

It transpires that the attack wasn’t imminent on the day but was just a POSSIBILITY during the next three days. Not even a PROBABILITY and obviously nowhere near a CERTAINTY.

We all want the security services to protect us from terrorist acts but where were they on 7/7? Where was the intel then?

As I said I have no doubt that something was in the wind but it was decided to over-react on the day to try and establish that the security services were on the ball and as a convenient extra to reinforce the need to curtail the public’s freedom and liberties and make a case for having ID cards accepted.

Time will tell if and when the arrested suspects end up in court on a terrorism charge.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

The security services are always going to be in a lose/lose situation. They either act when it's a possibility and run the risk of disrupting services and upsetting travellers or they wait and wait and wait until something happens. Either way they lose.

So if it was a possibility that it was going to happen within the next three days surely that is enough to know that it was certainly going to happen and so needed action.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

My two cents on this latest anti-terrorist action, Heathrow airport is a complete joke ,connecting from one terminal to another is a nightmare. How security works I have no clue , the usual procedure is, after checking my bags at San Francisco the next time I see them is in the domestic baggage carousel at Manchester airport , where I go through customs I have no idea.
The last time I used Heathrow I was travelling from San Francisco to Manchester , it seemed a high proportion of the airport workers are 3rd world nationals even airside , I'm sure thorough background checks have been carried out on all of them , even the guy on the immigration desk was wearing a turban , when he asked me why I was visiting the UK ,I told him I had come to bury my father ,he wanted to know who he was and where he had died, I also told him I was born here and if there was a problem ,guess it was, because he then wanted to know why I had a US passport , he then wanted to know how long I would be staying, said I didn't know , so he stamped my passport for 1 month with the notation not allowed to work, (guess I should check if my national insurance number has been deleted from the system.)
One good thing coming out of all this chaos is the restriction on hand luggage some of the stuff folks carry-on is unbelievable, why in Gods name would someone want to carry-on a rice cooker full of food, I've seen 6 ft tall african drums, on one international flight from the middle -east there were 4 arab gentlemen with hunting Falcons tethered to their wrists (the birds were hooded), on Air France flights I have seen passengers walking their pet dogs in the cabin.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

My concerns over the current crisis are, while the police are tied up guarding the airports....what are the crims up to?....and all this media coverage is giving islamic terrorists a field day from the propaganda angle....and the human rights Lawyers must be drooling at the potential for all the work that will be coming their way.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

Well if the lawyers are going to have a field day with legal aid sponsered lawsuits then maybe I should try as these actions are bound to be infringing a human right or two of mine. :confused:

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

Yes, you are right Spuggie........and all of the population of this country too!

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

I've flown by british airways and had to empty my pockets and hand luggage into a clear bag before jambutty. I was flying Belfast to Manchester. And when i sailed from Belfast to Liverpool i've had to empty my pockets. Even been dragged off to the little room to be searched as well at Manchester because of my cousins daughters wedding present that was in my suitcase and was going in the hold not as hand luggage.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

just adding to what steeljack said about the amount of hand luggage

a few yrs back me, my missus and my baby went to pakistan for 4 weeks and not trustin those nappies there i decided to buy a few box fulls and was told i wudnt b able to. fair enough. put my suitcases thru got thru the hand luggage - at duty free there was a boots and i went there to buy a drink and lo-behold there was the nappy size i'd been refused. i asked how mnay they had and they had more than enough. so i ended buyin more than i was gonna take initially and no one to check how much hand luggage i was gonna carry!

but back to this terrorist thing. i do have a feeling that all the folks arrested for this are gonna be let loose. its fair enough for the govt to make such safe measures but i feel the public will soon get more than sick of them if they cry wolf too many times.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

I am not making your case for you. It's not my fault if you take BITS of what I say and tie them all together out of context now is it.

These are not backed up by fact, because I havn't followed the news since the first day when there was very little known. These are just examples of possible explanations.

The police have been watching them for a few months now (Some news program said since last December) it is quite possible that the police could have informed the airport with enough time for them to enforce their plans in case of such incidents.

When I say "copycat" you're not a stupid man and know exactly what I mean, whether you want to be pedantic about the wording of it or not. Copycat refers to copying the *planned* attack. If they just arrested the people they believe to be involved, and didn't try to stop anything further happening, what happens if they actualy didn't catch everyone? Should we take the risk of hundreds of people dieing so that some people are not inconvenienced on a flight?

It dosn't NEED to have happened before for them to plan against it. You don't sit and wait for it to happen before you produce a plan to combat it. People who plan against this sort of thing arn't stupid, they're quite good at risk analysis. It's not some strange concept to have liquid explosives, they planned ahead, and they've greatly reduced the possibility of anything going ahead if indeed it was going to.

So what if it isn't 100% sure that something would go ahead in that day, or the day after? If theres ANY chance at all then i'd rather be safe than sorry.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

I have no intention of bandying words with you on this point Cyfr although I will remind you that it was you who started it with disparaging remarks about my opinion on the issue.

I, however, will end it.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

Well thats because your opinion was horseradish with a pinch of complete and utter conspiracy... Ah well!

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

From Craig Murray's website:

The UK Terror plot: what's really going on?

I have been reading very carefully through all the Sunday newspapers to try and analyse the truth from all the scores of pages claiming to detail the so-called bomb plot. Unlike the great herd of so-called security experts doing the media analysis, I have the advantage of having had the very highest security clearances myself, having done a huge amount of professional intelligence analysis, and having been inside the spin machine.

So this, I believe, is the true story.

None of the alleged terrorists had made a bomb. None had bought a plane ticket. Many did not even have passports, which given the efficiency of the UK Passport Agency would mean they couldn't be a plane bomber for quite some time.

In the absence of bombs and airline tickets, and in many cases passports, it could be pretty difficult to convince a jury beyond reasonable doubt that individuals intended to go through with suicide bombings, whatever rash stuff they may have bragged in internet chat rooms.

What is more, many of those arrested had been under surveillance for over a year - like thousands of other British Muslims. And not just Muslims. Like me. Nothing from that surveillance had indicated the need for early arrests.

Then an interrogation in Pakistan revealed the details of this amazing plot to blow up multiple planes - which, rather extraordinarily, had not turned up in a year of surveillance. Of course, the interrogators of the Pakistani dictator have their ways of making people sing like canaries. As I witnessed in Uzbekistan, you can get the most extraordinary information this way. Trouble is it always tends to give the interrogators all they might want, and more, in a desperate effort to stop or avert torture. What it doesn't give is the truth.

The gentleman being "interrogated" had fled the UK after being wanted for questioning over the murder of his uncle some years ago. That might be felt to cast some doubt on his reliability. It might also be felt that factors other than political ones might be at play within these relationships. Much is also being made of large transfers of money outside the formal economy. Not in fact too unusual in the British Muslim community, but if this activity is criminal, there are many possibilities that have nothing to do with terrorism.

We then have the extraordinary question of Bush and Blair discussing the possible arrests over the weekend. Why? I think the answer to that is plain. Both in desperate domestic political trouble, they longed for "Another 9/11". The intelligence from Pakistan, however dodgy, gave them a new 9/11 they could sell to the media. The media has bought, wholesale, all the rubbish they have been shovelled.

We then have the appalling political propaganda of John Reid, Home Secretary, making a speech warning us all of the dreadful evil threatening us and complaining that "Some people don't get" the need to abandon all our traditional liberties. He then went on, according to his own propaganda machine, to stay up all night and minutely direct the arrests. There could be no clearer evidence that our Police are now just a political tool. Like all the best nasty regimes, the knock on the door came in the middle of the night, at 2.30am. Those arrested included a mother with a six week old baby.

For those who don't know, it is worth introducing Reid. A hardened Stalinist with a long term reputation for personal violence, at Stirling Univeristy he was the Communist Party's "Enforcer", (in days when the Communist Party ran Stirling University Students' Union, which it should not be forgotten was a business with a very substantial cash turnover). Reid was sent to beat up those who deviated from the Party line.

We will now never know if any of those arrested would have gone on to make a bomb or buy a plane ticket. Most of them do not fit the "Loner" profile you would expect - a tiny percentage of suicide bombers have happy marriages and young children. As they were all under surveillance, and certainly would have been on airport watch lists, there could have been little danger in letting them proceed closer to maturity - that is certainly what we would have done with the IRA.

In all of this, the one thing of which I am certain is that the timing is deeply political. This is more propaganda than plot. Of the over one thousand British Muslims arrested under anti-terrorist legislation, only twelve per cent are ever charged with anything. That is simply harrassment of Muslims on an appalling scale. Of those charged, 80% are acquitted. Most of the very few - just over two per cent of arrests - who are convicted, are not convicted of anything to do terrorism, but of some minor offence the Police happened upon while trawling through the wreck of the lives they had shattered.

Be sceptical. Be very, very sceptical.

http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/

Once again - take EVERYTHING you read in the mainstream media with a bucket load of salt - especially when it comes from the mouths of politicians. And always remember the tag line from V for Vendetta - "People shouldn't fear their governments, governments should fear their people".

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

i think its very funny,not ha-ha, that no charges have yet been brought, also have not much faith in intelligence, re- the poor buggar in london, also the house with the chemical weapons, not exactly an inspiring track record in recent times. __________ sorry just slipped in the bullsh**.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

You no longer have to wait. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5273104.stm

11 Been charged and I think all but 1 are still being held.

I can't find the link anymore but it seems many items of evidence have been found including stuff to make bombs.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

So were are those who advocate that the arrests are racially predudesed?

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

well if as alleged they have found martyerdom videos - of any of the charged 11 i think the punishment should fit the crime- blow the buggars up.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

It is one thing claiming to have evidence but it is an entirely different matter having that evidence accepted in a court of law and getting a conviction.

The acid test is the judge announcing; “I find you guilty of ……..”

Hopefully this isn’t just more spin and the potential killers are proven to be guilty of terrorist activities and get their dues.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

Unfortunatly, Jambo, the judge does not make that announcement in an English Court of Law; the jury decides on the guilt or non guilt of the accused and the judge merely states "You have been found guilty...."

Our legal system has evolved to deal with criminal beheaviour, not with widespread terrorist activity.There are three major problems with this. Firstly, the accused has the right to reject certain jurors and so there is a good chance that you will end up with a jury where at least one or two members are sympatetic to the accused and their aims. Result? hung verdict and retrial. Secondly, the British system is adversorial rather than inquisitorial and thus proof of conspiracy is very, very difficult to make, even more so for the third reason, the signing up to European human rights legislation and the barriers that imposes upon a successful prosecution.

Re: UK Airports at high alert
 

Jambo Tealeaf? Who is Jambo?

Oh! You mean me - jambutty. Please do me the courtesy of using my proper user name.

Much obliged for the correction my learned colleague. In my own defence I would offer that as I’ve never been in a court of law where a jury is sitting, for any reason whatsoever, so I am not familiar with the terminology used. However courtesy of films and TV I am familiar with how a jury is selected and what happens during a trial. I can’t remember what the judge said though.

The fact that our system is adversarial, as you so eloquently put it, will make it very hard to prove the case against those currently charged with terrorist offences.

But thanks for the update because other readers may not be so familiar and will learn something.

I have heard quotes that suggest it will be some two years before the whole affair is done and dusted. To me, that means that the police are struggling with real evidence.

Time will tell I guess.