Identity Cards
 

Anyone any views on the likelyhood of an ID card system being brought in?

Re: Identity Cards
 

Think it is a good idea, this idea has been bandied about for some time now. The powers that be in this country would probably make a mess of it, with excessive red tape and paperwork. I believe they have an ID card system in the States, but don't really know how it works. When I was in Sardinia, a couple of years ago, the local police used to stop people at random and ask to see their drivers licenses or passports. Luckily I was staying with a mate and she warned me, but I had to have my passport with me all the time.
In theory, an ID card could cut down on fraudulent crime, but ID's are easily faked and criminals always find a way. I think it would be good for reducing the sale of alcohol / fireworks etc to the underaged, if they had to produce a photo ID.

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In these days of computer chips etc, why have something as outmoded and clumsy as an ID card?

What we should do is have every child 'chipped' at birth.

The chip would carry details of its birth, injections, sickness, parents, home address, etc.  Then as it grows older the details of its schools could be entered into the chip, the courses exams it took, and then its bank account, the jobs it had had and so on.


Can you imagine it, a parent going into Tescos and finding that she had not enough money on her credit card but knowing that her child had some in its account, would pick up the kid and swipe it through the bar code reader to pay for the groceries.

What a great idea!  Not only would we know where the little darlings were 24/7 but the Police could have a tracker system based on GPS built into it - sort of built in baby sitter.  Oh the mind boggles!!

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Lol!  Fangio, you're a star, why did I not think of that one. Brilliant!!!!

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I agree with i.d. cards or something similar, in my opinion the only people to complain about them are the one's that are up to no good.If you have nothing to hide then you should have no objections. Bring it on.

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They should be here allready!  Why is it taking so long for us to get them?  It would solve a heck of a lot of problems!

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I agree Janet an I.D card would solve loads of problems.

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Says on Teletext (tonight) that ID cards are years away...

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With the exception of minors buying things under age, anyone care to enlighten me, just what are all these problems that an I.D. card would solve?  ???

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Every European county has an ID card system except GB. the [email protected] cannot understand how the hell we fight crime without them. I never thought about it before I came here, but now I'm here I also really wonder why Britain doesn't have one.
On one hand I like the idea that you're freer in Britain, you don'tn have to have a fixed residence or an ID card, so you feel less controlled by the authorities, but that's all well and good for us law-abiding citizens, but not so for criminals and frauds.
In Europe you have to have your driving licence and ID on you AT ALL TIMES, but this is necessary as insurance covers the car for any driver, so they can't just jot down the registration and know who was driving the car.
In general I'm FOR ID cards, but on the other hand we have onme of the best polcing systems in the world and if it's worked so far without, why bother introducing them?

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When i was at High School (5 years ago) they said they where going to bring out the ID cards, but still they haven't.  I agree with the idea as it would stop young people drinking  [smiley=alc.gif] which i see a lot, on the streets they are there with the cans of Kestrel, who then shout obseen things at me as i walk past  [smiley=eek.gif]  .  Also the majority of fights that happen in Accy at the taix rank on a Fri/Sat night are young boys thinking they are hard cos they have had too much to drink.  So i hope they do do it to stop that if nothing else.   :-/

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Every European county has an ID card system except GB. the Europeans cannot understand how the hell we fight crime without them. I never thought about it before I came here, but now I'm here I also really wonder why Britain doesn't have one.
On one hand I like the idea that you're freer in Britain, you don't have to have a fixed residence or an ID card, so you feel less controlled by the authorities, but that's all well and good for us law-abiding citizens, but not so for criminals and frauds.
In Europe you have to have your driving licence and ID on you AT ALL TIMES, but this is necessary as insurance covers the car for any driver, so they can't just jot down the registration and know who was driving the car.
In general I'm FOR ID cards, but on the other hand we have one of the best policing systems in the world and if it's worked so far without, why bother introducing them?

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Ahem!.. I don't fink so! :)

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In this day and age with the technology available it would be easy enough to make a good enough fake ID card to fool the club doorman or the local shop owner in a busy off licence for example..  Maybe not good enough to fool the police but certainly good enough to fool people who dont mind being fooled into taking your money

It wouldnt take a gang of master criminals either.. any teenager worth his salt could knock them out to all and sundry for a couple of quid each and make the whole system a farce.. a system that will cost millions to impliment and by the time its ready technology will be more advanced..

EXAMPLE.. If i made a fake gas board ID card or even a fake police ID and presented it to you at your front door... how would you know if it was fake ? My pic. fake numbers blah blah.. how many times have you phoned up the head office when someone has shown you an ID to check its real?

All in all an ID card system already in place in other cuntries might work.. but to introduce one now here would be a waste of money.. I think they know that.

I wouldn't be apposed to having one... in some respects my driving licence is one as it has my pic :)

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I can see the arguement for the cards on both sides.

Personally though, I wouldn't want the system to introduced. It's all too much like big brother for me.

Ive nothing to hide but wouldn't it be annoying if you had to produce your card everytime you wanted to do something or purchase something? And as for having to carry it on you at all times, give me a break.  How many times have you been in a rush and forgotten your wallet/purse or mobile phone?

Have to agree with HarryX - too much money to impliment. I also believe that the majority of people would vote against it anyway.

The system we have works - it's just that there aren't enough Police men and women out there - THAT's the problem.

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been living in Germany as you all know for 21 years.The have an ID system over here but as i am non German i have not got one.I am supposed to carry my passport around with me all the time.In 21 years and 3 months i have only been stopped by the police twice.My drivers licence has my pic on it and i have never had to produce any other form of identification.I D cards seem to be a waste of time for me.As you say when people knock on your doór how often do you check up at head office to see if people are who they are?

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For all you advocates of introducing an ID card system I suggest you check out

http://www.charter88.org.uk/id_cards/index.html

Concise arguments why ID cards wouldn't work in this country. Also to you people who argue that ID cards help solve crime, again I repeat my previous question.

What problems would an ID card solve  ???

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About the only thing it would achieve is to provide more civil servant/ quango jobs - which would probably be as fouled up as the PSA, the Passport Office etc etc.

So why not go for it?  After all, those little cushy number jobs are hard to come by.  Yeas, lets have ID cards and create some more havoc in the country.

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No go for it i would love to see how this is gonna solve crime.Up to now i do not believe a burglar or mugger has left his calling card first

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I believe our mighty leader (sarc) is returning from his trip in SA to vote - he must be expecting this stage of the bill to be a close run thing :p

Just my ten penneths worth: I'm quite prepared to have an ID card but they can take a walk if they think I'm forking out hard earned money for the privilege.

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My passport is in my handbag. My handbag is always with me. ID? - no problem.

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only point i would make is passports are easier to replicate, an i.d. card has a fingerprint embossed on- much more difficult to forge.

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I am not adverse to the idea but it has to be a system acceptable to al and inexpensive.

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I do not trust this governments ability to provide the technical computer equipment to read these cards accurately. Suppose you went out of the country on one of these cards and then were not recognised when you wanted to return......would you be left to wander the globe looking for a country to take you in? No, to me it is just another way to squeeze some more money out of us (like we don't contribute enough already)....some crims are bound to be able to forge the cards eventually.....and there is your ID gone.
It won't help stop terrorism either, because the terrorists will not use them.
There won't be enough man power to check them(the ID cards)
Spain has ID cards but they were still the victims of a terror attack in Madrid.

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I agree whole heartedly Margaret, Having seen what a unholy mess the Goverment made of the Passport computer system (billions over budget, years late and not to teh original design) or teh mess they are making of the NHS system(seperate areas writing their own systems that are incompatible with each other, again massively over budget). I wouldn't trust them to get it anywhere near secure or workable.

With regards to which is replicable, biometric information is just a series of 1's and 0's, If you can read it from one card you can write it to another. Even encryption is not going to stop you. Todays PCs are powerful enough to break ciphers that the Cold war used in hours, Stick together a beowolf cluster and even 256 bit encryption is within days(to give you an idea, Internet banking uses 128 bit and each extra bit doubles the previous number of possible cominations)

Then it comes down to as Margaret says, If you are happy to blow yourself and countless others up, are you really going to be bothered to carry an ID card?

It isn't some holy grail of a nice secure country, its an expensive cash cow. Unfortunately, though it looks like one we will be paying for for years

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4707608.stm

Ian

Re: Identity Cards
 

So long as it's free I say they can give me an I.D. card.
It will go with all other important/might be needed documents, into my paperwork drawer,
why? because if they ever stop me it will surely be a cheaper lift home than a taxi!

If stopped, the alternatives would be giving me a piece of paper similar to the one for producing your motoring documents and then letting me go, (And of course a terrorist would turn up wouldn't he), or taking me to the cells until proof could be obtained or acting like a taxi and driving me home!

The amount of police time wasted just because we didn't carry this particular piece of bureaucracy would soon outweigh any so called benefits.

I have managed to exist for over 50 years without carrying such documentation 24/7,
I don't see how changing this situation will improve my life style one jot.

If at any time in the past proof of I.D. was needed I have always willingly sorted something out, (passport, driving licence, etc.).

But I am not prepared to have a document that has me breaking the law just because I don't have it with me.

http://www.animationlibrary.com/Anim...h_police_2.gifhttp://www.animationlibrary.com/Anim...ish_police.gif

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still the odd terrorist will find a way around the system

http://www.cd-pop-quiz.co.uk/images/Abu_Hamza.jpg

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This government doesn't know what to tell the people......first the ID cards were to help in the fight against terrorists, then it was to ensure that welfare and benefits went to the right people, now they tell us it is to prevent identity theft. When are they going to come clean and admit that it is a means of extracting money from us......and also there is a frighteneing touch of Big Brother about it too. I can see me going to Jail because I will not have an ID card. The government already knows where to find me to extract taxation and any other dues they feel they can get from me.

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We more or less have them already. How many times are you asked to produce your driving licence or passport as proof of identity, for something unrelated to either driving or going abroad?

I agree that we'll probably have to pay for the privilege of knowing who we are, when the cards are introduced.

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The old driving licences are virtually useless to prove identity. Mez and I could swap and who would know? - we're both about the same age and both female. I'm all in favour of the new ones with a photograph - at least then six people can't share the same licence (and yes, it has happened - too often). I suppose there could be a problem if a person has neither a passport nor a driving licence, but that is rare these days.

I object on the grounds that it is going to cost me money - I work, have a reasonable salary, but I STILL don't want to pay for something I don't want. Who is going to pay for ID cards for those who don't and won't work? Us, of course. Those who can't work, fine, they shouldn't pay.

I also want to know more about how they will be used (or abused).

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Im for the ID card system.Late at night when walking home,from time to time i've been stopped by one of our police officers asking where I was going & where I'd been.Having told them they then ask for name,adress & D.O.B.They then check it out on the computer system via the radio to see if your wanted or known.If I was either of the later whats to stop me giving one of my brothers details?They would be non the wiser.I have nothing to hide so why not let them go for it.I think the majority of people oposed will be people with criminal records(major or minor),and certain people of foreign descent who seem to opose anything or person of authority that is able to keep an eye on what they are up to.

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Looks like we aint got any option over this 2+ years from now.

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i cant wait!!! im always forever being id'd when i go out, when i go asda! everywhere!
at least when theses cards come into the world i won't have to carry my passport with the fear of loosing it.

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That is a big problem, Baby Boo. My passport was stolen the first year after I moved to Spain, mainly because we are required to carry it with us. All the car papers, insurance, tax etc have to be carried in the car too. Copies aren't allowed.

We now have this little black bag which we take everywhere with us and it is such a worry. There is nothing of value in it apart from the papers but one of these days some nasty person will nick it and then where will we be!

I agree with some sort of ID Card which will include all these things and, hopefully, may stop the necessity of leaving ourselves wide open to theft.

When I was younger I always carried a handbag but nowadays it's rare for me to do so. The less I have the more safe I feel.

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I object to ID cards janet and I’m not up to no good and I have nothing to hide.

I object on several fronts not least of which is having to pay for one TWICE. Our taxes will fund the production and implementation of the ID card system then to add insult to injury we will be required to pay again to receive one.

I also object to the sneaky way that they are being foisted onto the public. If you apply for a passport you have to have an ID card as well – for an extra fee of course. In order to obtain a passport I have to supply certain documents to prove who I am. So that makes an ID card obsolete before it gets off the ground.

During the last major war the citizens of France, Belgium and other occupied countries were issued with identity papers, the old equivalent of an ID card and they didn’t stop the freedom fighters from harassing the German army at every turn. So just exactly how is an ID card going to stop a home grown terrorist?

If the CSA computer system is anything to go by then the ID card computer network will be a shambles and a very expensive one at that. Guess who will have to pay?

This ID debacle is not a panacea to cure all the identity problems. It is Blair’s folly.

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Correction, jambutty - it is just ANOTHER of Blair's follies.

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Very well said Jambutty......it also means that whatever we do we will be tracked.......AND if we don't let the appropriate authorites know when we move house........we will be fined. More money for nothing into the Chancellors coffers. Why do we need ID cards......are there any of you out there whom the government have missed taxing????? NO, I didn't think so.
Another thing....will the Bobby on the beat in our locality have the wherewithal to check these useless bits of plastic that we will be held to ransom over????? I seriously doubt it.
Like you Jambutty I am a law abiding citizen and have nothing at all to hide........and unlike Mthead I am never out late at night. I will not be buying one of these cards......so we could be in adjoining cells.

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i dont mind having a card,,,,,i still have the one from 1941..the year i was born..(((Wonder what it would fetch on E.BAY)))lol

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Ah yes GC, but that was different......it did not contain any biometric details........and correct me if I am wrong, you were not expected to pay for it. Also it was wartime conditions. This is going to be a much different situation......you could get your identity stolen. I know the government tell is it is to PREVENT identity theft......but they do not know what to tell us to get us on their side. If it was to protect us in any way do you think they would be doing it? It is a way to rake off more cash from the apathetic British public.

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point taken margaret,i never thought about it getting stolen,:o

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innocent people been made to cary identity cards..

wasnt this origionaly an idea implimented by hitler...?

edit:

sorry my mistake hitler made people cary identity papers , tony blairs idea is much more tecnoligicly advanced

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i suspose its better than being branded ,,like cows etc,,,,,lol

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the only people who should have to carry identity cards in my opinion are imigrants and criminals

that i would agree to

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How would that work?

Police: Excuse me you criminal looking person may I see your identity card.
Criminal: I don't have one because I am not a criminal
Police: Ok sir, sorry for stopping you, off you go.

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Quote:

so we could be in adjoining cells.

I will apologise now Margaret because I snore.

As usually this government is scare mongering. With some 60 million in this land does anyone know how many have had their identity stolen? I’ll bet that it is less than 0.1%.

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yeah your right we should implant microchips into their skulls so that they can me monitored at all times

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dont we have to pay for these ID cards??
if so then they can sod off!! why should i have to pay to prove who i am? if they want me to have one they can bloody well pay for it!

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Yes Panther...we will be expected to pay for these cards unless we are on certain benefits......if we move and do not tell the authorities then it is mooted that we will be fined £1000......nice little earner eh!

I do not want one even if they are free. There are enough details about me being held by government departments. Surely that should be enough.
And as I say, when the crims get round to duplicating these cards......which they will.... be sure of it......and you get your identity stolen, how do you prove that you are who you say you are? It is damn scary.

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[quote=jambutty]

I will apologise now Margaret because I snore.

It is Ok Jambutty......I do too......so we will be in stereo!:D

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well im with panther on this one why do we have to pay ,well i wont be paying so they can sod off too !

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i suppose if everyone voted against labour at the next elections tony blair may actualy get the message that its a bad idea

sorry gail but your boss is a d*ck and needs reminding thet hes here to SERVE the people not rule them

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Isn't it their plan that when you renew your passport you have to automatically get one, and pay for it?

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well ime ok for 9 more years then and after that i will just holiday inside the uk :D

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From 2008 unfortunately:(

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Why on earth would you need both? Anyway, I think my passport runs out in 2011...after that maybe I won't trot the globe anymore......or then again maybe I will and just not come back!

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[quote=Margaret Pilkington]Yes Panther...we will be expected to pay for these cards unless we are on certain benefits......if we move and do not tell the authorities then it is mooted that we will be fined £1000......nice little earner eh!

do u know the cost of these ID's, money's tight as is it and im not on benefits, im a british citizen, since i was born, so i shouldnt need one! those who come into this country sponging should have em not us!:mad:

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Few points on this one Chav

Next elections are local and have absolutely no impact on the Government whatsover. Local issues are things like - should the market hall be sold off, should we get resident parking anywhere, how do we bring investment into Hyndburn etc? I disagree with a lot of the national policies but as far as I'm concerned I'm fighting a local Council election and national policies shouldn't come into it one jot.

He's not my boss - I'm not a fan of his either and there is no way that I would have voted for him as the leader of the party.

I don't really see the point of identity cards myself. I reckon that I have at least 10 cards (credit cards, drivers licence, library cards, etc) that identify me adequately should anybody question who I am. I certainly don't think that the people should have to pay to carry them.

Finally, I agree with you - from Councillors to MPs to the Prime Minister, they should all realise that they have to listen to the people and serve them rather than dictate.

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Are you sure you are a member of the correct party Gayle?
You almost sound anti-Labour

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Very funny, yes I am part of the right party because on local issues they have the best approach and the best vision for the town.

As for sounding anti-Labour - no, I am just pro-common sense. National issues should not be confused with local issues, I am fighting a LOCAL election.

Re: Identity Cards