New Drivers.
 

The opinion that new car drivers should be limited to driving a car with limited horsepower for two years after they pass their test seems to be gathering support.

Well it won’t stop those who do not even bother to try and gain a license to drive but it might be of some use for the law abiding.

In the two wheeled world a learner is limited to a bike or scooter of 125cc. But even then a new rider has to pass a CBT before even being allowed on the roads at all.

Costing about £75 a new rider is taught basic Highway Code and how to ride the machine in a private environment and then a tour, under supervision, around the streets to hopefully show that the rider is competent enough to be let loose on the roads.

When the new rider passes the Driving (Riding) Test s/he is further limited by engine capacity for a period of time. I think that it is 250cc for two years. By then it is assumed that the rider is competent to handle a bike of any engine capacity.

Could something similar be an advantage to new ‘car drivers’?

Re: New Drivers.
 

total bollox , how is a young lad who get of his arse after training to be a plumber or whatever supposed to get his tools around a 1000cc car

is upport the 6 points in 2 years and you retake your test but to be honest it shuold be anyone who gets 6 points in a 2 year period shoud have to retake their test

bad driving is not just limited to new drivers

besides liek butty says theres plenty of people out there with no licence what so ever

Re: New Drivers.
 

Very true Chav and if for some reason I for example built up those points no matter how good I might think I am there has to be some doubt about competence (in driving), though it might be an unfair system if fines and points from speeding tickets where included after all that is so blatently just a cash building exercise.

The honest drivers are easier to keep track of with a licence and full set of documents for their vehicle so it costs less to target them than the rogue drivers. I think the time of the police outside Asda the other day would have been better spent checking peoples documents rather than doing an eye-sight test, I bet more people are injured by the illegal drivers with no insurance or M.O.T. than someone with weak eye-sight, (no, this doesn't mean I think it's alright for a blind man to drive a car :D).

Re: New Drivers.
 

In theory limiting new driver to cars with a small sized engine is a good idea. However, what about a new driver in thier 40's/50's? In my opinion they would be penalised by this. What then? Should this only apply to new drivers under a certain age? If so where do you stop? Should they be then told what type & colour of car to buy? I think it all comes down to common sense. One thing that i think should be compulsory on the driving test, is, the "Pass Plus" scheme. For those people who aren't aware of what this is ..... Pass Plus is a scheme aimed at younger drivers, who, after passing thier test can opt to take an extra few lessons with a driving instructor, these lessons include night driving & motorway driving. After completing the Pass Plus the driver is eligible for a reduction on the car insurance with most companies.

Re: New Drivers.
 

I think its a difficult one, the problem is you will get some new drivers who are genuinly good, and others who are just utter idiots. Its getting a balance between controlling the idiots while not completly ruining the driving experience for those who will take to the roads seriously.

While rambling, although slightly off topic, what is it with these boy racers with the noisey exhausts, if I go for an MOT and my car was that noisey I would fail and need to replace the parts. However they MAKE there cars that noisey!

Re: New Drivers.
 

The exhausts are made to sound that loud, a lot of the drivers think that by fitting one of these, it will dramatically improve the performance of the vehicle.

Re: New Drivers.
 

Fitting one of those decreases their performance because it de-tunes the exhaust to the engine, I think entwisi did a good explanation about this in another thread. If I can find it I'll put a link in here.
:D

Found it, (that didn't take long), click here

Re: New Drivers.
 

I bet not many of the "noisy exhaust club" have informed their insurance of the modification. If they have not then their insurance is void. At the last Area Council meeting I went too our local beat bobby mentioned this. He said if cars are racing around dangerously and have such modifications to inform him of the registration number. He would then pay them a visit and check they are properly insured. If not he would "do them" for no insurance. He explained that catching them driving dangerously is often difficult to prove but checking the insurance is easy and just as effective in dealing with them.

Re: New Drivers.
 

No need. I know how they work thanks. Thats why i said that they think that they'll improve the performance. I know that they actually do the opposite unless used inconjunction with a highly tuned engine.

:)

Re: New Drivers.
 

Having an inch long hole just in front of my cat does not seem to have affected performance on mine too much.

I am expecting it to be a little better when I cut the cat out and replace it with a straight piece of pipe though.

Can I chuck the old cat into my grey bin or should I put it with the tin cans?

Re: New Drivers.
 

Not a prob' it might help someone else, (walks away muttering to himself, "you try to help folk and they just throw it back at you!, no point trying with some folk, whitter, moan groan, grumble, etc, etc,..........."):D

Re: New Drivers.
 

lol. I'm going to read it anyway. Thanks

:)

Re: New Drivers.
 

Quote:

total bollox , how is a young lad who get of his arse after training to be a plumber or whatever supposed to get his tools around a 1000cc car

No problem at all chav1. But the limit should not be based on capacity but brake horsepower.

My previous Vauxhall Corsa 1.1 was capable of 90 mph. Of course its acceleration was measured on a calendar rather than a stopwatch but then you can’t have everything.

Quote:

is upport the 6 points in 2 years and you retake your test but to be honest it shuold be anyone who gets 6 points in a 2 year period shoud have to retake their test

That’s an interesting suggestion chav1 but I doubt if you will get many drivers to agree with you. Two mistakes and a test is a bit harsh. I might be persuaded to accept a three strikes and you’re out policy though. However I would agree that when a driver is banned from driving THEY SHOULD HAVE TO RETAKE THE TEST.

I agree that bad driving is not limited to new drivers. In fact I would go so far as to suggest that in the first few months after passing the test a new driver is probably the safest on the road until they learn bad habits from other idiots.

Re: New Drivers.
 

With the points staying on your licence for 4/5 years (not sure exactly). Under your suggestion you would have to take a re-test if you were banned for an accumulation of points. Thats only 1 offence every 9 - 12 months. I was banned for 6 month for this reason. I picked up 14 points (all for speeding) over 4 years. 1 of my offences would have been spent a couple of months later. I got all my points either on an open road or on the motorway. I never exceeded the speed limit in built up area's & especially not near schools.

Re: New Drivers.
 

There is a big difference between capable and being able to do 90 mph. A 1.1 Corsa might manage 90 but it is far from capable while doing it :D

I doubt it. They are usually very nervous and sometimes even scared to be on the road. Many have very little experience after only a few hours of lessons. Maybe 1 hour a week for six months. Many of them think they can stick their foot down after passing because there is no instructor with them to tell them to slow down.

Re: New Drivers.
 

i passed my test just after xmas and teh other month my car was crashed into by a guy who had also passed his test around teh same time as me

he was driving on the wrong side of teh road and had his head under the dashboard changing his cd or somthing

he was also over 35 so its not just young folk that drive bad

luckily i saw him coming but with no where to go all i could do was brake wait for him to hit me ;)

all these laws are pretty irrelivant you are either sensible or you arnt and like i have said before there are very few traffic laws enforced infact i would say 99% of points handed out are from speed cameras and not actual police work

Re: New Drivers.
 

Well yes AccyJay. If a driver is banned, whether it be for accumulating 12 points or an instant ban, they should be required to retake the test. If someone does not heed the warning as they go about accumulating points then that’s just too bad.

Knowing that 12 points doesn’t only mean a ban but a retake of the test would surely concentrate the mind to be more careful on the road. No more dashing through the lights as they change to red. No more exceeding the speed limit.

Would anyone relish having to take the test again? I wouldn’t! So I make sure that I won’t be asked to take the test again by obeying the rules of the road.

The fact that you got done for speeding on the open road/motorway doesn’t come into the equation. The traffic laws were broken. There are no mitigating circumstances as far as speed limits are concerned although getting a wife in labour to the hospital or similar emergency has been a mitigating circumstance. But those types of occasions are rare.

I accept that there will be newly passed drivers who think that they know it all and put their foot down Neil and I also accept that a newly passed driver could be nervous but I think that is the exception rather than the rule.

As a small aside – if someone takes lessons at one hour per week for 26 weeks then they are wasting their money. They should compress the lessons to one a day for 26 days. It is all too easy to forget what was learned in last week’s lesson but not so easy in yesterday’s lesson.

When I took driving lessons back in the last millennium (1968) I had one heck of a job to persuade BSM to give me 12 lessons on a daily basis. They wanted me to take one a week. Probably knowing that with such a schedule I would need more than 12 lessons and therefore more money for them. Actually that was the second time that I passed my test. The first time was in 1957 but I let my license expire and did not renew it during the following 3 years because I was abroad playing at sailors.

Re: New Drivers.
 

Re: New Drivers.
 

Not sure that the proposed "cure" really addresses the problem. While we can certainly seeks ways to reward those who display common sense and sensible behavior, it is unlikely that restictive legislation will produce the desired result. Even low horsepower cars can tempt an irresponsible new driver to acts of idiocy.

For example, one of my daughter's high school classmates decided to see what his new, low-horsepower car would do on a straight stretch of county road one damp November evening in 1988. When he spotted the police car coming the other way (they had clocked him at 75 MPH), he panicked, evidently lost control, and left the road opposite our house. Net result was that he killed one of our apple trees and removed himself from the gene pool.:( Very sad, but pretty stupid driving by a young man who was a top student! Lucky indeed that, apart from a superannuated fruit tree, he was the only victim.

Also, if it is a family car, rather than a car used by only one individual, is it reasonable to ask the household to add a low-powered car or to replace one that exceeds the limit, just because one family member is a new driver?

One thing that has helped, at least with the younger newly-licensed drivers in my state. For the first six months after getting their license, they are not allowed to drive between midnight and 5 AM. Also, they are only allowed to carry one passenger, which helps to eliminate a young driver showing off for an audience in the back seat. Also, I think that New Jersey has a more rational driving age, 17, which is the highest of any state in the USA. Some states allow a young driver to be licensed at age 14.

Re: New Drivers.
 

Look at my previous post about Pass Plus

:)

Re: New Drivers.
 

Re: New Drivers.
 

Sorry, i read it as a couple of questions.

:rolleyes:

Re: New Drivers.
 

In northern ireland when you pass your test you have to put a R plate on your car for a year. This restricts you to driving on 'normal roads' you arent allowed to drive on motorways. I think its a good idea. I know when I passed my test even though i had been flying up and down the bypass to bury and over to burnley i wasnt sure about driving on motorways. If i was going on a motorway i used to try and get someone to come with me to give me more confidence. My driving instructor used to take me out at different times of day/night she said you have to get used to driving at different times of day/night. In fact i did most of the pass plus before i passed my test the only one i didnt do was motorway driving. I think what it comes down to also is have you got a good driving instructor. One who will take you out at different times so you get used to driving at teatime, night, morning etc. I know my niece has just passed her test and first thing she did was book pass plus the second was to buy a car! Might be because she will be driving into manchester every day for college and so she was a bit wary of that.

Re: New Drivers.
 

I think that motorway driving has got to be made part of the normal lessons & test. My sister has been driving for about 8 years now, but, she's still hopeless on the motorway. She tries to avoid them as much as possible. It might also educate people to stop them constantly driving in the middle lane, even though the inside lane is empty.

:)

Re: New Drivers.
 

I can see what you're getting at but it's just not feasable to have learners on the motorway. A second series of lessons and test before going on the motorway after passing an initial test to drive on ordinary roads is the ideal solution.

Re: New Drivers.
 

Why not? They are with an instructor. Driving on a motorway is the same as driving on a dual carraigeway with slip roads with the same speed limit, like the one from Rising Bridge towards the M66. In fact when it becomes the M66 the only difference besides the sign becoming blue is the hard shoulder. You could argue that its safer to drive on the M66 in case you break down and need to pull over.

A lot of the M65 only has 2 lanes as pathetic as it is.

Re: New Drivers.
 

Re: New Drivers.
 

I don't think a driving instructor would take someone on a motorway until they were ready just like any other road/activity they teach. I also think only qualified intructors should be able to teach a provisional driver, none of this getting a mate to sit in with you bull like I did before I passed my test. Instructors only please.

Re: New Drivers.
 

In Germany & some other european country's it's part of the test. So why not over here?

Re: New Drivers.
 

Maybe people a long way from motorways would find it difficult to take the test.

Re: New Drivers.
 

Re: New Drivers.
 

Re: New Drivers.
 

You broke AccyWeb again :D

Re: New Drivers.
 

Re: New Drivers.
 

[quote=carrerahill]I think its a difficult one, the problem is you will get some new drivers who are genuinly good, and others who are just utter idiots. Its getting a balance between controlling the idiots while not completly ruining the driving experience for those who will take to the roads seriously.

well said,
when you pass your test you are still learning to drive,passing your test doesnt make you an expert driver,my friend lost her licence this year through her own fault(teaching someone how to drive when she has only just passed)well anyway she has to take a extended theory test and resit her driving test for 1 and half hours,when she gets her provisional licence in a year,but thats her own fault she just passed her test she was not allowed to learn someone else she was still learning herself

Re: New Drivers.
 

[quote=jackyalex]That was just arrogance that got her in that mess.n All your life you are learning when driving and no one is the perfect driver.

Re: New Drivers.
 

Maybe the answer lays with better education about the consequences of road traffic accident. This may be seen as going a bit too far, but if it saves just one life it's got to be worth it.

Re: New Drivers.
 

When I was learning to drive, I was taken on a superhighway (US equivalent of a motorway) quite early on. Frankly, I've always regarded these roads as some of easier and safer places to drive. Purpose-built and generally well-engineered for the traffic they carry. Also, for long stretches, about the only choice is what speed and which lane to occupy.

Always found in-city traffic and some overcrowded main arteries (equivalent of the UK "A" designated roads) to be far more difficult. Just a lot more complexity.

Re: New Drivers.
 

Maybe some more video's like this one are needed.

SOME MAY FIND THIS DISTURBING.......... SORRY FOLKS

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1558/car_accident/ Watch the guy crossing the road on the left hand side.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/133599/bad_car_pile_up/

Re: New Drivers.
 

suzuki vans bedford midi all less than 1000cc and more than capable of holding a blow torch i think it is a good idea for new drivers to start small you cant pass your test and jump into an hgv or double decker bus so why should you be able to jump into a sports car?

Re: New Drivers.
 

I disagree with limiting young drivers to cars with smaller engine sizes....there aren't many young drivers out there with large powerful cars as they can't afford the insurance on them! Most young drivers inc 'boy/girl racers' are limited to 1.4 or smaller due to costs anyway. Those with large powerful cars tend to be the ones driving with no insurance...as I found to my peril when I was hit by one!
As for the 6 points and retake your test I totally agree with that..I also believe everyone should have refresher training every 10/15 years regardless of age as the bad habits picked up in some people are dangerous and rules/regs change so much it's hard to keep up.

Re: New Drivers.
 

its not just the young uns in high powered cars that are too blame,

on many occasion over the last few weeks, sometimes every day, iv'e come accross "old people" in big chuff off range rovers, mercedes benz, bmw and such like doin 50 mph in the fast lane on a motorway.

now you tell me is that safe driving ??? :confused: :confused:

in my opinion this is far more dangerous than driving too fast

Re: New Drivers.
 

that makes me laugh your right they do,it also makes me laugh when you see pensioner buying a car thats high powered,why when they are only going to do 50mph on the motorway,they shouldnt waste there money,my grandad did and when it came for his mot,he was told to go up and down the motorway doing 70 because he had never gone fast enough for his cat/converter to work properly for it to pass the mot

Re: New Drivers.
 

Tell you what jacky, your car got a hammering in county Durham that day I came to yours...............:D

OMG that was funny!!!!! LOST?? NO not us :Banane20::Banane20:

Re: New Drivers.
 

lol i cant find my way out of my front door,its clean now slinky,and ive found a quicker route only took me five attempts

Re: New Drivers.
 

FANTASTIC.............. but I hope the next time I come to yours you find somewhere else to get us lost.......cos that was a right giggle ;):D

Re: New Drivers.
 

lol well i still havnt been right to the top of the street yet,i hear it takes you straight to penrith,we will have to have a girly drive out

Re: New Drivers.
 

OMG we could have ended up in penrith that day?? :eek: omg how funny would that have been " hmmmm yeah hiya love, what do you mean where are you two?? :mad: hmmmm well the signs say PENRITH" :D:D:D:D:D;)

Re: New Drivers.
 

ah yeah well we were prob almost there only a few more miles of single dirt track roads to go

Re: New Drivers.
 

yeah but it was funny..........even the whip lash the next day was worth it :banlama:

Re: New Drivers.
 

so it was you who put in that compen claim i wondered who it was pmsl

Re: New Drivers.
 

Well back on thread........................NEW DRIVERS.....oh dear :D:D:D:D

Re: New Drivers.
 

It’s not the engine capacity that makes a car powerful Silver but the brake horsepower the engine develops.

“Refresher Training every 10/15 years” – now that’s an interesting notion but sadly not practical. There are just too many drivers. As for re-tests after gaining 6 points – that too is unlikely to be practical – too many drivers.

The only people who should have to take a re-test are those who lose their license be it an outright ban or an accumulation of 12 points. After all they got the points for breaches in the driving rules and thus are a proven hazard on the road.

Yes you will come across some idiot (of any age and sex not just old people) hogging the outside lane at less than 70 mph BLACKBURN RAVER but it doesn’t happen very often. In fact the only vehicles in the offside lane should be those who are actually overtaking cars in the other lanes. Once the overtaking manoeuvre has been completed they should ease into the next lane inwards thus leaving the outside lane clear for others to use to overtake. At times the congestion on the motorway is such that the overtaking lane (outside lane) has to be used as a normal travelling lane. Sadly you get someone driving at the legal motorway limit with some idiot a couple of yards behind them flashing his lights. Now THAT is dangerous driving. And who are the flashers? Well it ain’t the old guys.

Why shouldn’t a pensioner buy a car that has some grunt jackyalex? After all they have been driving for more years than many people have lived and are probably replacing their old high grunt car with a newer model. Why shouldn’t anyone drive at 50 mph on a motorway? Providing of course that they keep to the nearside lane. Just because the motorway maximum speed limit is 70 mph it doesn’t mean that is the speed that every one should travel at. In any case driving at about 56 mph in top gear uses the least amount of petrol and causes least pollution.

A catalytic converter will work properly when it has to reach a particular running temperature and that can be achieved by the engine ticking over for a period of time. The MOT station doesn’t take a car for a high speed spin before testing the cat. It has absolutely nothing to do with speed so if some mechanic told your granddad to dash up and down a motorway he was talking a load of old rot.

Re: New Drivers.
 

Why shouldn’t a pensioner buy a car that has some grunt jackyalex? After all they have been driving for more years than many people have lived and are probably replacing their old high grunt car with a newer model. Why shouldn’t anyone drive at 50 mph on a motorway? Providing of course that they keep to the nearside lane. Just because the motorway maximum speed limit is 70 mph it doesn’t mean that is the speed that every one should travel at. In any case driving at about 56 mph in top gear uses the least amount of petrol and causes least pollution.

just to let you know when i was on my driving lessons i was told to drive at the max speed of road,also i got 3 minors on my test for doing 25mph in a 30 and im not the only one,i dont know can you get pulled for driving too slow?

Re: New Drivers.
 

I find it hard to believe that a qualified driving instructor would tell you to drive at whatever the maximum is allowed on the road.

You should drive at a speed that you are comfortable with taking into account the prevailing conditions but only up to the speed limit of that road. However you should also ‘go with the flow’ but not if it exceeds the speed limit of that road, except that sometimes in heavy traffic, it is safer to just ‘go with the flow’. If you are not comfortable ‘going with the flow’ then you should pull over at the first opportunity and get out of the way. This can happen in adverse weather conditions where visibility is reduced and your interpretation of what is a safe speed to travel at differs to other drivers.

I guess you got 3 minors during your test because you didn’t ‘go with the flow’.

You can get pulled for driving too slow if in doing so you are creating a hazard behind you, but it is called ‘driving without due care and attention’ although I have never come across such a situation.

Re: New Drivers.
 

Anyone over the age of 65 should take a re test as there eye sight and other reactions start to slow i say 65 as then as people go on the pension they can check if they drive or not and if they do have to take a re-test

Re: New Drivers.
 

When you reach 65 Mick I suspect that your opinion will change.

However at what age does people’s eyesight and reactions start to slow? For some it might be before 50 whilst others it could be well past 70.

I’m pushing 70 yet I can comfortably read a car number plate at twice the required distance. As for reactions – with age comes wisdom and we all know that as life progresses the body ages. As far as I can tell my reactions are not too different to what they were 10 years ago but I accept that they could have slowed down a bit. So I make greater allowances for other road users. I back off an extra few yards from the car in front except when stationary at traffic lights. Which is more than some youngsters do. They stop ten yards from the car in front and then as someone comes to a stop behind them they creep forward a yard or two. Why?

How many old timers have you seen tailgating? How many old timers go bombing around the streets? The insurance companies are not noted for being stupid so why are older drivers charged a lesser amount for insurance than younger ones. It couldn’t possible have anything to do with the fact that most old timers behind the wheel are a darned site safer and more considerate of other road users than those under 50 and especially under 25.

As I understand it, prior to my 70th birthday I will receive a letter/form from the DVLA to take to my doctor who will, after an examination, decide whether I am fit to continue to drive safely. I would rather take his word than some arbitrary call for re-test at 65.