veil or cross
 

The papers and media have got a thing going on about a women suspended for wearing a full veil and another suspended by BA for wearing a neck cross.
so do you think both should be sacked or what?... or is it just a storm in a teacup and we are all being drawn into this rubbish by the press?

Re: veil or cross
 

Re: veil or cross
 

When learning to speak, or anybody with hearing difficulties rely on watching the movement of the lips and facial expressions. So therefore if this woman refuses to remove the veil then yes, she should be sacked. I also think women should be banned from driving a car with these veils on, they are a danger and limit what they can see.

As for the cross, if its tucked away under her clothes i dont see any issue with it. I would say the same for any religious symbol if it was tucked away under clothing.

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Sorry, after reading willows bit, i havnt got a problem with religious icons being on display. When i meant tucked under clothes, i meant whilst in a working enviroment.

Sorry, its Monday ! :D

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Apparently BA have no problem with anyone wearing a crucifix, or any other pendant jewellery, with or without religious significance, when worn under their uniform, but not over it. This women wasn't sacked, she had been suspended because of her refusal to wear the required uniform, as stipulated in her employment contract.

As for the teacher who insists in teaching fully veiled if any male colleagues are present, she is hindering the education of her pupils, and should find another career were she can wear what she likes, or be sacked.

Re: veil or cross
 

Re: veil or cross
 

Exactly, but this silly woman knew the rules about the uniform the job required, but now has the backing of her union in fighting for her religious 'freedom'.

The same rules applies to any pendant, be it a Star of David, or even a pagan symbol.

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Yes willow, i mean for health and safety reasons.

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if all the children came to class wearing those outfits ,she would have a whale of a time wondering who was who,,and i bet she would be off to complain that she was under preasure...ITS JUST GETTING STUPID

Re: veil or cross
 

I agree that the teacher should not be wearing a full veil in front of a class of small children whilst trying to teach. I believe (from the news) that she was told prior to taking the job that the veil would not be appropriate but that she could wear the headdress with her face visible. So basically she has brought it on herself and is trying to get a bit of publicity.

As to the crucifix.. If a company has a no jewellery policy then that policy, for whatever reason it is in place applies to all employees. There is a no jewellery policy within hospitals amongst nursing staff and staff with direct patient contact. This is for health and safety reasons as rings with stones and bracelets can cause injury to patients during treatments and care. Necklaces and earrings can be grabbed by confused patients who sometimes flail about in bed and grab out at whatever they can reach.. So therefore, a crucifix should not be worn by a nurse/midwife/auxillary (wedding rings are allowed).

We all know that rules are there to be broken (and many nurses do), but the managers are now starting to enforce the uniform policy once again. If BA has a no jewellery rule within its' uniform policy, this will include a crucifix so therefore the woman has brought it on herself and is trying to get a bit of publicity.

When you accept a job you are accepting your employer's rules. IMO, if you can't live with those rules then don't take the job.

Re: veil or cross
 

Quite agree with Lettie. If the rules were brought in re:jewellrey, after she had accepted the terms of her employment, she might have a case. BA have said she can wear her crucifix, but it must be worn under her cravat.

If you don't like the rules, you aren't forced to work anywhere.

Sounds like a trouble maker, just like the veiled teacher.

I'd sack 'em both.

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I saw the crucufix women on GMTV this morning and it was obvious to me she's just jumping on the band waggon, she was well aware that she's able to wear her crucufix under her blouse, BA must be made up with the amount of publicity the're getting, all free!!

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Another positive outcome, because she said she's boycotting them, is that if you book a ticket with BA now, you won't have to sit next to the oudious Anne Widdecombe!

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Re: veil or cross
 

Yes, or so it is reported.

Good news.

All aboard the Sky-Lark.

Re: veil or cross
 

Re: veil or cross
 

Errrr.....does anyone know:-

a) What this womans job was within BA?

b) What was the uniform which she should have worn within this job, i.e. did it require a female tie/cravat to be worn, such as those worn by the trolley-dolleys?

c) Is there a special BA Turban or female headcovering which is an integral part of the BA uniform?

Re: veil or cross
 

Re: veil or cross
 

I think people are missing the issue; this is not about adherence to a uniform dress code, it is about duplicity of standards by BA. A dress code should be exactly what it says; if it says that jewellry should not be worn, fine - that applies to everone. By the same token, a uniform should be a uniform, no less and no more - you don't put add-on's on to it. Unfortunatly - and I know this from traveling through, Gatwick & Stanstead - many of the check-in girls at these airports do choose to wear habibs - usually of black, but sometimes of differing colours. Charming as they are, they are breaking a uniform policy, unless BA is granting exemptions. If it is the former, then they should be disiplined and if it is the latter exemptions should be applicable to other faiths. And please don't tell me that a Cross & Chain is more of Health & safety hazard than a habib.

Re: veil or cross
 

Re: veil or cross
 

So how is the fact they are allowed to wear different coloured habibs match in with a uniform policy? It is quite simply a pick 'n 'mix policy for some, but not for others.

Widdicombe is right in boycotting BA; they are a national disgrace, and not just in the matther of 'uniforms'

Re: veil or cross
 

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The girl who was banned for wearing a habib lost her battle

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21022007/14...challenge.html

Re: veil or cross
 

yeh seen that, the court did right!

Re: veil or cross
 

did you mean hajib?.....;)

Re: veil or cross
 

errr that veil thingymebobby thingy:D

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And rightly so. How is the teacher supposed to even know if the right child is in the class. What about exams?

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i only know cuz my five year old told me....:o

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Hehehhehehe now theres a point Neil LOL well least its all be unveiled :D

Re: veil or cross
 

I think the first precedent of on this subject came with the Sikh religion being allowed to wear the turban in the police force, in fairness to them they were made to wear crash helmets when riding a motorcycle, hard core bikers were also made to conform to this rule, with one dying in jail as a result of non payment of fines. If rules are made for dress or whatever reason they should be equally applied to all races, creeds and religions.

Re: veil or cross
 

Theres always someone that wants to be different or non conformist:rolleyes:

Re: veil or cross
 

Just imagine trying to teach deaf/hard of hearing children that may be able to lipread, getting a teacher turning up with a Niqab on her face.
Also how would the pupils know what sex the teacher was?

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Goodness, some people are sore losers.:D

Re: veil or cross
 

A Pakistani politican was shot dead yesterday for not wearing her veil.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...9-2703,00.html

Re: veil or cross
 

that was just a psychopath stop trying to make out this is common to pakistan. most women in pakistan dont wear the veil and when i went went 17 years ago alot of the ladies wore their hear short it was the fashion at the time . men in pakistan would not dare to appproach them about their dress sense

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Muslim countries have changed a lot in the last seventeen years. Try being a woman showing your hair, or wearing cosmetics in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan or Pakistan today, you'll find a totally different mentality.

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no thegirls are more western now due to sattelite tv influence even in the villiages its a new thing there my friends have been

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I bet they still walk a yard at back of the men, women are mere chattels in radical Muslim thinking, this custom of importing husbands from the mother land will make sure this system prevails.

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ianto those women are so arrogant their husbands are probably walking two paces behind them but in the villiages poor women do have a hard time

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So it is getting westernised i'll swallow that one spinner, if they have, or the family have control of the finances the woman is the boss:D.

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I was discussing the Muslim faith with my 14 year old daughter the other day. If what she says is to be taken as fact, it appears the Muslim faith may suffer a backlash from some of the Muslim women in the very near future.

My daughter said that the Muslim boys in school have recently become even more dedicated to their faith and culture, were as the girls have developed a certain amount of contempt for their faith/culture to the point were they despise their own. She said the Muslim girls are always commenting on how they wish they had been born different. It makes me feel quite sad.

Re: veil or cross
 

Who said fashion was dead?:D

http://www.skidmore.edu/academics/ar...ges/107730.jpg

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Not having been brought up with Muslims I am at a disadvantage to generations that have, only by discussing and reading views of those that have, can I personally make any sense out of the subject and must at times appear to be a little racist, as these people seem to be trying to take away hard won freedoms our forebears have passed on to us, I think spinners last reply was a good one, regarding the place of women especially in the 'motherland'. Are the boys given a more intensive religious education, and more importance placed on them being better achievers than girls?

Re: veil or cross
 

I don’t think it’s the faith that’s at fault just how some interpret it. The Islamic faith/world has given all of us more than most in terms of progress, sciences, culture and day to day living. It’s just a shame that the positives of Islamic life can’t be up held and exploited as a path to a more peaceful world.

Like all things in this life/country/world a minority of peoples are exploiting the negatives and being allowed to succeed. Fact is it’s all been done before by the Catholic Faith and the Protestant Church over the centuries, what makes it worse today is the minorities are able to exploit the vagaries of National Leadership, the absence of National Pride and the abandonment of moral standing in the community.

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IMHO 'rascist' is just a word adopted to belittle people that don't agree with your opinions on others cultures Ian ;)

In school no, they aren't given more intensive religious education, my daughter attends a Catholic school. What happens behind closed doors in the family environment is a different matter I suppose. Neither is it achievement, from what I'm led to believe, it's the freedom the *white* girls have that the Muslim girls crave.

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the one bottom right looks like one of my old flames.:D

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In what way Doug? That's not me being ignorant, sometimes you need it pointing out to realise the truth in a statement.

Re: veil or cross
 

Oh thats BINDA...... FULL NAME........ BIN-DA-BOY..........:D :DSORRY , NAUGHTY MEEE

Re: veil or cross
 

I think they are culturally acceptable and the rights of the individual to wear one should be respected, but in the right circumstances I think they should be removed for the appropriate periods of time. By this I mean at Boarder Controls, Legal Investigations and Court appearances. Medical Practice and Teaching, Military Service, Political & Legal Occupations. I must admit I do find the extreme Black one’s a little intimidating but only because of the potential threat of not knowing who’s underneath it.

Re: veil or cross
 

Re: veil or cross
 

Don’t make me list everything. Most of what we take for granted in our day to day lives originates from the Islamic world. Examples The Distilling process, Navigation, The Numbers we use, time itself in some respects, and Etiquette (table manners).

Re: veil or cross
 

Re: veil or cross
 

I can't make you do anything but I would like more examples, not because I'm being pedantic but because I have a genuine interest in what you just said. For example, I didn't know about those things you listed, especially the distilling process? I thought Muslims weren't permitted to consume alcohol?.

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Again where? I thought most of our beautiful architecture was down to the Romans.

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It was always my opinion that these veils were 'invented' to keep the sand out of the nose and mouth during a sand storm, or marry an ugly daughter off it just shows how naive I must appear on this subject, this is not a wind up, as a child at the cinema this was my belief when watching films concerning the desert etc.;)

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are you at it again tinks?:D

Re: veil or cross
 

In many ways it is. But they have given as much as the Greeks, Romans and the Church.

The Beauty of Islamic Architecture is much of it is still with us and is there for us to see should we chose to look.

Re: veil or cross
 

OK sorry ;) ... coats on I'm heading out the door apologising as I go :D

Re: veil or cross
 

OK Doug I'm going to have to take your word for it :)





....... It's OK Cashy I'm going ;) :D

Re: veil or cross
 

Distilling affects many processes in life, for them it was in Medicinal use and the creation of perfumes.

Re: veil or cross
 

Here you go Tinker Babe, have a gander.......:)

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...icle350594.ece

Re: veil or cross
 

Ahhh, now I didn't know that. Cheers Doug

Re: veil or cross
 

I could show you a few things you didn't know...........:D :D :D



sorry...........:o

Re: veil or cross
 

Maybe, but I'm still glad they invented it and I will offer up a toast to them when I raise that first pint to my lips in the Greyhound tomorrow afternoon! ;)

Incidentally, Ian, I couldn't help having a little chuckle at your theory that the veil was for "marrying an ugly daughter off"...I'd never thought of that! :D

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I wish I had, you should have seen some of the buggers I've woken up with.......:o Veil! a Coal sack couldn't have done the Job.....:D

Re: veil or cross
 

That is really interesting.

If I'd been asked "Who invented quilting I would have said the Americans, and of course Holland with Windmills

Cheers Doug, I see what you mean now :)

Re: veil or cross
 

The real point is that the Islamic world pulled peoples, cultures and teachings together, they worked with and integrated with other religions to promote learning and respect, it was the Islamic world that saved much of the Greek and other ancient libraries that have passed down to us today. This is a culture we’re talking about that still exists, not those who seek to change the world with there own views.

Re: veil or cross
 

So very true just “The media bandwagon” :D