|
What Have We Done Wrong?
That question is aimed at the under 25’s although the over 25’s will be able to offer a defence.
The present younger generation has inherited our country as it is today, because of the actions or lack of actions that the older generations have taken in the past. What went wrong? |
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
For the older generation to have done something wrong you are assuming or implying that everything in the country was 'right' at some point - please explain when you believe that everything was perfect.
|
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Quote:
|
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Yeah, we talk about rose coloured spectacles, seems like a lot of people have them on when they talk about the past!
|
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
I never said that at one time everything was perfect Gayle, what I was trying to point out, rather badly now that I come to think of it, is that in many aspects today’s society is worse than it used to be. We’ve turned into a me, me, me, me, me society. It has to be said that it is also better in some ways but that is more in material things than attitudes.
We used to have hospitals with real nurses and plenty of them who considered nursing as a vocation as well as just a job to earn money. To be fair many nurses are highly dedicated to their vocation today but many are not. We used to have an education system, although not perfect, was good enough to produce scientists, inventors, technicians, engineers etc in abundance. We used to have trade apprentices where school leavers could learn a trade. We used to have more than adequate public transport. We had respect for the older folk even though youngsters have always cheeked them. We used to have governments that listened to the people and were not bogged down with alleged sleeze. Crime is rife and our prisons are full and are no real deterrent. The police on the street are beginning to become a distant memory. Kids could play out with safety although there was the odd case of child abuse. Er! garinda! I’m sure that you meant to write, “at least the child mortality rate has DECREASED considerably over the last seventy years.” Not increased. We who talk about the past Gayle have actually lived and experienced the past and as we are still living in the present we are best qualified to make a comparison. We may view the past with rose coloured glasses but surely you cannot deny that there is a lot wrong with today’s society. Which brings me back to my original question. What went wrong? |
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Quote:
What I was trying to get at was at what point you think it started to go wrong then we know what you are comparing with the present day. |
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Things that are better than seventy years ago in this country.
Less poverty. Better health. Many diseases now totally eradicated. Higher education, not just for the lucky few. Travel. Greater access to information. Technology. Better housing. (I appologise, I did of course mean a decrease in child mortality rates.) |
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Quote:
We still do, don't we? Admittedly, the government's attitude towards education has changed and changed again, however A-level results are getting higher each year, even with exam boards changing the specification constantly to accommodate the whingers saying that the exams are just getting easier. Well if the results are getting better with stricter specifications, teaching must be getting better, right? Quote:
Still do! Most of the courses at Accy & Rossendale college are ones that lead onto a trade. Quote:
Is it not possible that attitudes towards abuse have become more strict and if those attitudes were in place way back when, much more cases would have been reported? |
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
I wouldn't like to go back in time. There are so many things we take for granted nowadays that I wouldn't want to have to try to live without. I couldn't cope without my shower in the mornings. It's what wakes me up. But I do agree that there are some things such as lack of respect where we seem to have gone downhill.
|
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Quote:
:D |
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
I think its got better, ever since the invention of Accyweb Jambutty has been able to come here with doom and gloom so the rest of society dosn't have to listen! ;)
|
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Quote:
:) |
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
It's peein' down.
I'm awfully glad I don't have to run across the back yard to use the privy. |
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Or shovel coal in from the coal house in the back yard!
|
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Quote:
|
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
...or have to go scrabbling around at the top of the coal face to collect some slivers of discarded coal - and then to make matters worse have everyone call you a gobbiner!
|
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
They still call you a gobbiner, nothing's changed there.
|
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Quote:
We probably haven't done any worse than previous generations (yet) and with encouragement perhaps the next generation of decision makers will be able do better with what could be harder decisions than what we have had to face? |
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
The problem is that looking back you can usually see things which could have been done better but there's no way of knowing that at the time. All we can ever do is move forwards from where we currently stand and hope to learn by any past mistakes.
|
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Although sadly people have died in various conflicts, we haven't had another world war.
|
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Quote:
|
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Nothing could have been done better.
At any point in time do you think someone made a decision... yes we could do it the best way... but we'd rather try this instead. At all times all decisions have been made with the best intentions, therefore, it did not "go wrong" what we have today is the best possible scenario. Sure, looking back other decisions could have had a better outcome however at the time of a decision, it was the best one available. Not sure if I'm making much sense here but at least I know what I mean :p |
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Got to agree with Gayle and garinda on this one. Having lived without the amenities mentioned in this thread during the early years of my life, I certainly appreciate all that we have access to nowadays. As jambutty says, there's a tendency in today's society towards instant gratification and the "me, me, me" frame of mind. But people in times gone by didn't have that luxury of thought. They were too busy struggling just to make ends meet.
|
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Yes Bullseysbarb I agree
We do have better amenities but are we safe to go outside without being mugged or park our car without it being stollen (by 14 and 15 year olds) who then go on to kill poor kids just walking in the street. Poeple are much better off today but its still not enough. Every generation has more and better than the last but we are never satisfied. I hope that if we ask the same question (What have we done wrong) in 20 years time we don't get the same answers because then we would not have learnt from our mistakes. Don't forget we reap what we sow. |
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Although today there are lots of areas considered unsavoury and unsafe to venture into after dark, they are probably a hell of a lot safer than the Britain of two hundred years ago.
Thousands of prostitutes, beggars, highway men, vagabonds, and urchins roaming the dimly lit, foggy, sewer ridden streets that are our past. |
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Dare I suggest that perhaps some people view the past through rose coloured spectacles?
|
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Quote:
Now go and let the little boy down, who has been sweeping your chimney all day. |
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Quote:
|
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
strange post by me and no edit.. what i would say is that I can't stand tories taking the high ground and saying how bad it was in the old days when most of the bad old days were under tory rule.. but on the other hand saying that everything was great when women could not vote and kids were used as items to create wealth for the same tories as today... right wing dogs!
|
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Jambo , the problems you mention about todays youth stem directly from the WW11 generation , the products of the baby boom were raised by parents who had gone thru WW11 , the men had been away for 4/5 years and the women had 'stayed behind' had been introduced to another lifestyle (burtontowood etc, even the ossie moors )
This generation didn't know if they would be speaking English or German the next day so they lived one day to the next, one day at a time,at the end of the war the people voted out Churchill and said 'never again" for the second time (WW1, Labour/League of Nations/Pacifism etc) The parents who raised children during the 50s/60s were maybe a tad lax in their parental resonsibilities but this goes back to the conditions of life during 39/45 and this was passed on to future generations hope this makes sense |
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Have a read of this web site jambutty, it shows
Quote:
|
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Good point!
|
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
If we were talking about 200 years ago you would have a good point garnida. But we are not. We are talking about the generation that spawned the generation that spawned the current youngsters.
50 years ago we could walk the streets with safety and confident in the knowledge that we wouldn’t be accosted or have our path blocked by crowds of yobbos. If someone tripped and fell down in the street (even a drunk) people would gather round and help them up. We could nip out to the local shop for a forgotten bottle of milk or whatever and leave the front door unlocked and the house empty. We KNEW that no one would come-a-calling and rob us blind. We could let our kids go and play on the swings etc in the local park safe in the knowledge that they would come home more or less on time. We could put out milk bottles with money in them to pay the milkman and no one came along and pinched it. Our kids could set off for school clutching their bus fare and dinner money and no one stole it from them. I could travel to an away football match and stand with the home supporters without fear of being done over. There was banter and fun poking but it was all innocent fun. Men would hold open the shop door to allow a lady to go through first. Children would give up their seats on a bus to an adult, especially an old one or a woman without being asked to. A young mum struggling with a pram to get onto a bus would be helped by total strangers. In short, people were prepared to and did help each other whether we knew them or not. We KNEW how to behave and had RESPECT for others. The jury is still out on the disputed easier exams today than yesterday shakermaker. All I know is that when I took “A” level maths at Blackburn College several years ago the curriculum was more or less the same as it was in my day for the equivalent of an “O” level. The exams may be just as difficult today as they were yesterday but the knowledge for them has been reduced. And of course multiple choice answers do make an exam easier. Sadly the current education system is not churning out plumbers, electricians etc like they used to and some tradesmen are in very short supply. I accept that further education colleges do have courses that lead to a trade but do they lead to a job? School leavers were apprenticed to an EMPLOYER and would spend one full day and maybe an evening or two at a college to learn the theory of the trade. At the end of the 3, 4 or 5 years apprenticeship they had a job as a fully skilled whatever. The only bad point of an apprenticeship was that the skilled workers would treat the apprentice as a slave for the first year. The war years generation, after suffering nearly 7 years of privation, shrugged off the past and settled down to rebuild their lives but they also kept control of the kids and taught them respect and good manners. There were tens of thousands of kids without a father and mum somehow had to manage on her own. But there was family around to help out. But it was those kids who started to let things slide. They wanted the good things in life and many mums went to work to provide them. The kids became ‘latch key’ kids and were left to their own devices and little parental control. Once you get a rotten apple in a barrel it is only a matter of time before the rest are tainted. I’m not trying to apportion blame but trying to understand why today’s society is amoral and only out for what it can get for itself. Of course there are always exceptions and there are many fine upstanding people today who do care but they get fewer with each passing year. |
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
I will take you up on the "kids" of today jambutty.. if you are implying these kids are unwilling to work to earn money you are way offline..this country has got the best wage earnings and solid economic growth in a generation.. it would not be possible if todays "kids" did not pay their way in taxes..young people who work at places like Mc donalds are constantly ridiculed for the job they do and the low wages they get, but at least they pay there own way..(and possibly your pension)
|
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
If you think that the kids of today are responsible for today’s economic growth then you need to take a reality check Mancie. I’ll grant you that the few who do take a job at McDonalds, Kentucky etc are to be commended but they rarely last very long. Staff turnover in those places is probably the highest in the country due to poor wages and long hours and virtually no job satisfaction.
If this country has got the best wage earnings of all time then tell that to a family man on the minimum wage of £5 odd per hour. Yobbo blocking Neil? Try some council estates in the evenings. Tripped. Yes but it is more likely to relieve them of some of their personal possessions. Unlocked doors. In those days people had the man from the Pru coming round for the weekly insurance payment plus others for other payments, particularly on a Thursday or Friday evening. The money and the card would be stored in the sideboard. So if you didn’t have a PC, microwave etc. you would be happy to leave your house with the door unlocked? People lock their doors when they go out so that no one can just walk in. Park. We didn’t have mobile phones in those days. In fact very few people had landline phones. People who did were considered posh. Pram assistance. You are a rarity. Apprenticeship. Your comment says it all for me. It’s hardly surprising that many kids are not keen on taking on an apprenticeship if they have to be a skivvy for the first 12 months. By definition an apprentice is someone who is learning the trade, so what has making brews or fetching the chip dinners got to do with plumbing etc? I don’t suppose that the attitude has anything to do with the fact that the current skilled workers were skivvies during their apprenticeship and they see it as their right to do the same to new apprentices? A sort of getting their own back. |
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Quote:
The present younger generation has inherited our country as it is today, because of the actions or lack of actions that the older generations have taken in the past. You orginally said 'generations' in your first post. |
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Quote:
It really annoys me that nice orderly queues seem to be dying out too. You queue up for a bus and it arrives and a bunch of yobbos pile on ahead of you despite the fact that they arrived long after, or you queue up to be served in a shop and some ignorant chav type barges in front dragging little Glastonbury (I kid you not) and another one along with her. |
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
If things were so much better in the past, and people had so much respect for each other, who brought up this present generation of young people with such appalling manners?
The preceding generation, that's who. I blame the parents. I also blame their parent's parents.:D |
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Quote:
|
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
To me there is only one thing that will sort todays mess out bring back National Service not only did it keep the work force turning over it taught respect somthing that a lot of young one's don't have today, all this when you do wrong a smack on the hand go away dont be a naughty boy or girl again gives me the craps put the sods in boot camp.
|
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Smack on the hand? You can't do that! You'll be done for assault. :eek:
In the olden days (well my Granny's day) extended families tended to stay around the same area so you had mums and dads and aunts and uncles to call on and help out if necessary. These days they aren't just in different parts of the country, they can be halfway across the world. |
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
I did indeed garinda but the generations of between 200 years ago to the pre WWII years sorted things out so that society as a whole had got better by the time that WWII shattered so many lives.
I can only compare the generation that spawned me (my mum and dad) with today’s youngsters. Maybe my opening post should have made that clearer? Quote:
As someone has already mentioned, the rot (if I can put it that way) started to set in after WWII and each generation thereafter has relinquished more and more of parental responsibilities until we are at our present state. I am a ‘war’ child in that I was born in 1937 and was just two and a half when war broke out. You don’t want to know what it was like being a small child with a father in a Nazi concentration camp for five years. I was lucky because sooner or later my dad would come home. Tens of thousands didn’t have that comforting thought. Their father and in some cases mother would not be coming back. During the post war years the survivors were so busy getting their lives back on track as best they could that parental responsibilities didn’t actually take a back seat but were a bit more lax than they used to be. But nonetheless their kids were still brought up with respect for others and the knowledge of right and wrong. In turn, my generation, having had an austere childhood, made a point of not letting our own children be denied some of the things that we were denied. In order to do so mum would have to go out to work. Of course once both parents got home from work there was still the home to see to so kids were left more or less to their own devices. And so it snowballed. So in general the behaviour of today’s youth is down to their parents and grand parents and to a lesser extent their great grand parents. But we all knew that didn’t we? Just some of us don’t want to admit it. |
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
I would normally say blame the parents, but, i'm from a single parent family. My mother worked damned hard (often 12 hour shifts, 7 days a week) to keep my sister and myself. She taught us discipline & respect, but she couldn't watch over us 24/7. I think a few more police on the streets & a clip around the ear wouldn't go a miss.
Also, you'll be screaming out PC Brigade this & child abuse that. I'll ask 1 question .......... which generation is it that sets these laws? |
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Jambutty, I do know about the effects of war on both society and families, as my own Grandfather was killed aged twenty two, whilst my Grandmother was pregnant with my Mum, and like it was for a lot of people, life was a struggle.
This still doesn't answer how society got as bad as you think it apparently is. As each generation is parented by the previous one. Somewhere back in the halcyon mists of history, when we could all leave our doors unlocked, and the worst people feared was a clip round the ear from the local Bobbie, these people must have been somewhat lacking in skill as parents, and the teaching of respect, because we can only learn from example. |
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
It is up to the parents to instil discipline, good manners and the knowledge of right and wrong in their children in the first instance and long before they start school. This should be reinforced (not taught) by teachers and other adults. But it isn’t as cut and dried as that. Outside influences play a big part to undermine those attributes. Commerce has to take some of the blame. “Johnny has one so why can’t I have one” must be a familiar sentence (or something similar) to most parents. What about, “Mary’s mum lets her go.” So peer pressure also plays a part and probably a bigger part than we care to admit.
As AccyJay has pointed out parents cannot be with their kids 24/7 except during the pre school years. The ideal situation of a two parents family with only one parent working means that the home bound parent sees (and is able to influence) the kids for maybe an hour in the morning before they trot off to school. Come the evening there is tea to be got ready, homework to be done and maybe the kids have a couple of hours playing out with friends or staying in with friends or watching TV. Back indoors again it is bedtime. So in reality the beleaguered parents have only a couple of hours in 24 to instil what needs to be instilled. There is always the weekend but the reality of the situation is that most of that time is taken up with individual activities. It is even worse if both parents go out to work and much worse still in a single parent family whether that parent goes out to work or not. Kids, as you point out garinda, learn by example but if the example is less with each generation we get what we have today and it has been this way for at least these last three generations. I have my doubts if it can be reversed. |
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Quote:
You don't know me from Adam - so don't assume you have me all figured out. You'd be wrong, on all counts. |
Re: What Have We Done Wrong?
Quote:
When you accused me of being envious of the 4x4 women drivers of Richmond? Cristal champagne quaffing socialists are jealous of no one, Sherlock.;) |
| All times are GMT. The time now is 19:44. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
© 2003-2013 AccringtonWeb.com