NHS - Is it really that bad?
 

Today I got the privilege of visiting the Houses of Parliament and lobbying Greg Pope about the NHS (along with my mum who works for Unison whilst some other members lobbied Janet Anderson). We were supposed to be meeting Jack Straw too but he couldn't fit us in until late on and we were only staying the day.

Anyway, to cut a long story short (because we got to talk for about an hour which was great), I quized him on a real example where 85 student nurses had been trained and only 10 had been given jobs, clearly showing firstly the lack of money for jobs, but secondly the waste of money in training people who have no job to go to and might just go overseas.

He replied telling me that he believed that due to the current debt that Royal Blackburn Hospital is in (due to the merging of Burnley whom were a few million in debt) that once this was resolved in perhaps 12months time, many of the financial situation cuts would be sorted. Of course that is no help to current student nurses but it does give hope of a positive future.

Now of course he is not directly responsible for Blackburn Hospital but he is a Labour MP so his opinions do count a lot.

He certainly painted a better picture of the NHS than we are led to believe, and he was not at all overly defensive about the NHS like some MP's are. Now its obviously up to you if you believe Greg, but when it comes down to it, I do.

The opportunity of going to Parliament and lobbying my MP (and walking past John Prescot on the terraces :p had to get that one in!) was a REALLY positive experience. I even got to mention Accringtonweb!

Overall I was greatly impressed by him, and although Labour HAVE mismanaged the NHS in a lot of respects, its not as doom and gloom as I once thought.

ps. If he wants to post and correct me on something I might have misquoted then thats fine. I don't claim to remember everything! :p

Re: NHS - Is it really that bad?
 

I won't score cheap points, by saying I told you before that you were always to caring to be a Tory, but........;)


Sounds like you had a great time, and did yourself proud too.

Good for you.

Re: NHS - Is it really that bad?
 

Well done, Cyfr. Your posts always reflect an inquiring and thoughtful mind. Ten years ago I met with Peter Pike, then Labour MP for the Burnley area, regarding the horrendous treatment my father received whilst dying of cancer at Burnley Gen. The details are too ghastly and upsetting to repeat here. At that time Mr. Pike told me that it did not matter which party was in office because there would never be enough money to give patients everything they might need. Unfortunately, this is the nature of a system with no consumer participation. I truly hope that things will improve.

Hope you gave "Two Jags" a wave as you went by.

Re: NHS - Is it really that bad?
 

Thing is though we are lucky we have the NHS. If we have an accident the ambulance comes and takes us to the hospital where we are treated. If we are sick we ring the doc and either go and see him or he comes out to our home. If we were in America we'd have to pay from what i've read they ask for your insurance details so then they can contact your insurance company to find out what level of cover. If i'm wrong then our american members will tell me and take karma from me. I'm sorry if i am wrong. It's just what i've read. Thing with the NHS is that people are living longer due to advances in medicine and also cures and treatment for illnesses that 40 years ago would have been fatal are now common place. How many cancer sufferers would have lived 40 years ago compared to how many survive now?

Re: NHS - Is it really that bad?
 

Re: NHS - Is it really that bad?
 

I would have demonstrated to “Two Jags” that I was still capable of drawing a long bow with either hand or use the middle finger of my hand to point to a flying pig.

I don’t have any recent experience of the hospital arm of the NHS so I cannot say if things have improved or not since my last stay two or three years ago. However during my last stay I was not impressed with the level of service but that was probably due to the lack of staff. But I have to point out that during the course of a day what few nursing staff we had on our ward they spent almost as much time in the office with the sister in charge of the ward discussing Corry or whatever as they did attending to the patients. And woe betide a patient who had the temerity to summon one of them during their natter time. To be fair though many of the nurses, but not all, were dedicated and caring but their care and dedication was constrained by the amount of time they had with a patient – due to lack of other staff to share the work load.

However the non hospital side of the NHS is a different matter. I can get an appointment with my doctor the same day that I ring up IF my problem appears serious enough and I am prepared to wait and wait and wait in the surgery waiting room for either a cancellation, someone not turning up or to be seen as the last patient. Fortunately there is always someone who just hasn’t turned up but that’s a thread on its own.

I recently attended because I was passing blood in my water. Not just a slight pink but a dark red. My doctor decided that I must have some sort of infection and prescribed antibiotics, which I dutifully took as prescribed. Later that same evening I started to experience pain in my big toe left foot. By next morning the pain was more than severe. Even a gentle cough would produce spasms of excruciating pain in my foot and even walking became an exercise in gritting teeth.

I don’t know about anyone else but I always read the leaflet that comes with medication and when I read the leaflet for the antibiotics I was informed that one of the possible side effects might be sore, swollen and painful joints. So I rang the doctor and explained my predicament. “Come to the surgery” the receptionist suggested. “I can’t walk” I replied “Can I speak to the doctor?”

Eventually he rang me back and he decided that I should try a different antibiotic, come and collect the prescription. “I can’t walk.” However to be fair he did arrange for the new prescription to be delivered to a chemist who would then deliver the tablets to my flat but not until the next morning. He did not offer anything for the pain. I take Warfarin so no Aspirin and with a history of kidney problems Paracetamol or Codein are not recommended.

By mid evening I was in agony so I rang NHS direct fully expecting them to suggest a visit to A&E and to arrange it. But no, after talking to one nurse who said that someone would ring me back I was left to my own devices. Some two hours later another nurse rang me back and we went through the same procedure of name, address, medical history, how severe was the pain etc and all she could advise was that she would contact the hospital doctor and he would ring me back. By this time it was close on midnight and the doctor did ring me back. Same old routine only this time it was more difficult because the doctor’s command of the English language left a lot to be desired. Eventually he agreed that he would come out to see me. “When?” I asked. “Within a few hours” he replied.

By this time I had discovered a way to propel myself around the flat sat on an office chair on castors so I was able to unlock the front door and make myself a very welcome brew.

The doctor arrived looked at my foot with disdain in his face suggested that it was gout and told me to take some pain killers. “But I don’t have any” and explained why I cannot take over the counter pain killers. He delved into his bag and brought out a blister strip of tablets together with a prescription form that I had to sign. These tablets worked enough to enable me to get some sleep in my recliner chair until daylight. The new antibiotics arrived and by evening, although still in a lot of pain, I was able to get around and make brews and soup to keep me alive until the morning. By evening I had used all the pain killers so taking my life in my hands I didn’t take that days dose of Warfarin and took Aspirin instead. Aspirin has always worked well on me as a general pain killer and I was able to actually go to bed to get some sleep. Within a week I was back to my normal self and no longer peeing blood.

Compared to the last time that I was forced to invoke the services of NHS direct when a severe kidney infection and a swollen closed tube from kidney to bladder had me in agony and whisked off to hospital faster than you could imagine, this latest episode underlined the deterioration of the NHS. No doubt due to the cut backs that the government claim haven’t happened.

However a more recent experience was down to the nurses but then their morale might be low because of what is happening to the NHS as a whole. But it is still no excuse.

A few weeks ago I was attending my annual check up with the GP’s nurse. I went in sat down and she went through the process of making sure that I was the right patient. I was weighed and she started off about smoking and diet. Then the phone rang, which she answered. Ten minutes later she was still nattering on the phone, which judging from the conversation, that I could hear, was more personal than professional. I was left sat there starting to quietly fume. To be fair as I can be she did repeatedly apologise for the interruption but made no attempt to end the conversation by informing the caller that she would ring back because she had a patient to attend to. Whatever happened to good manners? Surely an attending patient is more important than discussing things on the phone especially as the topic seemed to be personal.

Only this morning I attended an appointment at the Warfarin clinic only to be told when I arrived my usual ten minutes ahead of time that the clinic had been cancelled because the nurse was having a day off. They claimed to have either written to or phoned all those scheduled for today. “Sorry but we don’t have your address or phone number” was the excuse. They had my domestic details last year when an appointment was rearranged and I’ve been attending the Warfarin clinic from my current address for the last five years.

Then to add insult to injury, the nurse who was supposed to be having a day off rang me minutes after I got home to arrange another appointment for next Thursday.

So to answer the topic of the thread, I think that the NHS, as a whole, has gone downhill.

Re: NHS - Is it really that bad?
 

To whoever left me that karma comment, I posted to let people know how my experience of democracy went and it was ment to be a thread about the NHS in the 'serious discussion' part of AccringtonWeb. It is nothing to do with 'i met greg, i met greg', after all its hardly anything to brag about since you'll able to meet him yourself if you live in Hyndburn and make an apointment about an issue.
I wouldnt actualy mind the negative comment if you had the bottle to leave your name and something mildly constructive.

Re: NHS - Is it really that bad?
 

You certainly weren't bragging.

It is a very informative thread.

Have some karma back.

Re: NHS - Is it really that bad?
 

...except I can't!

Lol.

I.O.U.:D

Re: NHS - Is it really that bad?
 

My personal experience of the NHS is that it is good.

The drugs I take would cost a fortune if I had to buy them.

My G.P. (Dr. Smith at Rhydding's Surgery) is a fantastic man.

My Neurologist is one of the best in the country, though his bed side manner leaves a lot to be desired, but he's not there to entertain me, and his specialist Parkinson's nurse, who I also have access to, more than makes up for it.

I've recieved first class physiotherapy and speech therapy on the NHS.

It's not perfect, but without the NHS my life would be so much more difficult

Re: NHS - Is it really that bad?
 

Nice one Cyfr. Sounds like you asked the questions well & in turn got a good response.
Too much karma given out blah blah...

NHS? Luckily not had a lot of experience with them except for dozens of football injuries :rolleyes: Nothing serious though.
My family seem to all have been well looked after with the NHS especially when my mum had an operation at Gisburne private hospital on the NHS because of being on the waiting list for a certain amount of time.
Things do seem to be looking up in places, it's a shame doctors & nurses etc do not get enough credit for their work.

I'm looking to do Sociology & Politics or PPE at Uni & hope I get the experience you seem to have had.

Re: NHS - Is it really that bad?
 

Well then, Garinda, I will do it for you ... not as much as yours, but every little helps.

Why, shouldn't he tell us about his experience of going to the House of Commons to help his studies !! I will brag and tell you have had lunch on the terrace myself once or twice, but was just business. His story and question was useful too, because gives us an insight as to what it is like to be able to get a close up of 'The Office'. Will encourage other students too.

:p to the Pratt who left that Cyfr .. you have got to become tougher if politics is going to be your line and ignore such childish taunts, like most politicians have to. :D

Re: NHS - Is it really that bad?
 

Yep, I certainly can't fault the NHS.

When I had Maddie I was in hospital for the six weeks before she was born (plus I had a scare part way through when I was hospitalised for a few days). Although, she was a 'natural' birth (suspect Lettie would argue with that but reasonably natural birth, I was very ill. Received absolutely wonderful care.

When I had Zack, not so ill in the run up bu I had to have a section - again wonderful care.

When my Grandma was ill she was in the hospital for a week or so and they allowed us access at all times of day and night to visit her (on the evening she was taken in we went up to see her at about midnight) - she was made very comfortable and the family were taken into consideration at all times.

I know some people have had bad experiences but I can honestly say that I've never received anything but wonderful care.

Re: NHS - Is it really that bad?
 

Oh, the karma!

Pity, I thought you were offering to come round and rub me down with an oily rag.:rolleyes:

Re: NHS - Is it really that bad?
 

Watcha' like ...:D Can see now how I am always getting myself into trouble through not explaining things proper. !! Anyway, honey, never an oily rag, would get down me finger nails and not hygenic enough :eek:

Hek, those lovely nurses would be appalled. !!

All I can contribute to this thread is that my daughter left the wards, 'cause there was not enough time to give the patients the attention they deserved, and can assure you that she never chatted too long in the staff room if required at a bed side. Like she said, didn't come into this profession to carry out extensive reports, where spending was syphoned more to the colour of the curtains than patient care (although surroundings are important I know).

Also, patients are encouraged to fill in forms if any complaints and went down as low as receiving their hot drinks cooler than should have been, but this is a vicious circle ... not enough time to be a waiter service either.

Re: NHS - Is it really that bad?
 

Perhaps im bumping up an old'ish thread here but i'd just like to bring it to attention.

As some of you know Ive had a bit of an illness for the last year and the doctors dont seem to know whats up. Basicly to get anywhere I have twice had to pay privately to see a consultant because I simply can't wait for it on the NHS (the time I did go on NHS I didnt even see the consultant, just his assistant).
And now im in a situation where im missing a lot of college due to being sick/inpain so the consultant suggested a CT scan, which we were going to do on the NHS in '2-4weeks' which turned out to be more like 10weeks.

Yet privately, its 4days. Literally 4days.

The NHS is hugely funded.. I can't understand why they can't start devolving some cases privately.. Clearly the NHS infrastructure can't currently cope with the whole country so why not try and sort waiting lists out some more by paying private? APPARENTLY It is cheaper for them to do something on private than NHS, which speaks volumes.

I know somebody's going to come here and say 'what if we were still under the tories'. I know it wasn't good then, but just because its BETTER doesn't mean its satisfactory.. Labour have had 10years to sort this out now..

Re: NHS - Is it really that bad?
 

dont matter really whose in power cyfer its going downhill at a rate of knots, paris went for phsiotherapy today and because the last doc who saw her never put the info on her notes the nurse said sorry i cant treat your back,only your neck. cos yer back aint written on these notes, hell whats things coming too?it beats the hell out of me. seems to me like the nurses are being put in a crap position for the sake of economics.:(

Re: NHS - Is it really that bad?
 

Seems we have two interesting threads going on here both about the NHS and the services it provides, and it raises an interesting conundrum, on one hand we have a young person who has never paid a penny into the system requiring treatment and on the other hand we have someone who is obviously a few years older requiring treatment ,and has probably paid into the system all his/her life ....so who gets first/biggest bite at the apple , in a perfect world both would get equal treatment but we know life isn't that way ...most folks below a certain age will say the young un should get it , they haven't had a chance to live yet .......on the other hand older folks will say I've paid all my life I should get first bite.
So I invite everyone to play Solomon and say which way they think treatment should be offered to first , the young un or the owd wrinklie and reasons why.

Re: NHS - Is it really that bad?
 

Government does nothing well. No way should some bureaucrat be deciding who gets care and who doesn't! I read excerpts from Patricia Balsom's Diary in The Independent recently. She was only 57 and suffering from two forms of cancer. Fifty-seven is young in this day and age.....yet under the NHS rules, she didn't qualify for treatment because of the second diagnosis. She's dead now. Read it and weep. http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/b...cle1988136.ece

Re: NHS - Is it really that bad?
 

We have always run the NHS on student nurse labour. You only need a couple of fully qualified nurses on the average ward, the rest can be students at 1st, 2nd or 3rd year. When trained, the majority will almost certainly not get jobs where they trained, because the jobs just aren't there.

The NHS does some things superbly well. Emergency care is second to none, as I can vouch, having recently ended up in Resus with a severe asthma attack and being pulled round by two doctors and three nurses. The trouble is that the NHS was set up to provide basic medical care, based on the use that people made of the existing services at the time it was set up. Of course, what nobody thought about was that if something is free, you will certainly have it, whereas if you had to pay for it you might think twice. That obviously doesn't apply to life-threatening conditions, but certainly to the odd twinge that people would put up with if it cost them to put it right. Add to that the fact that medical science can now treat conditions which were previously invariably fatal, and you have the perfect recipe for overload.

Re: NHS - Is it really that bad?
 

Re: NHS - Is it really that bad?
 

Pendy is absolutely right, a free, basic service was meant to be provided to all but science has moved on and people's expectations have become higher. People are living longer and this means that they are using services for longer. The fact that we have a much older population is a clear indication that the NHS (both hospital and community care and health promotion) has worked.

Fewer people die from infectious diseases, we have good vaccination programmes and better disease treatments than we had pre- NHS.

Infant and maternal mortality rates are significantly lower than pre-NHS figures, more mothers and babies are surviving pregnancy and childbirth - yes... pregnancy can kill you. However, more women are now getting pregnant who could not (or were advised not to) previously get pregnant eg, people with cardiac problems, diabetes and older ladies. This creates multiple problems for the patient and the midwives/doctors. Multiple births are now higher due to assisted conceptions and this creates yet more problems of extremely premature babies who are at risk of respiratory problems and infections.

We have goodness knows how many immigrants coming to this country on a yearly basis, both legally and illegally....Again, they sometimes require healthcare and are yet another drain on the system. This government has vastly exaggerated how many extra nurses are practicing in this country. When you check out the NMC website, which contains details of every registered nurse, midwife, public health nurse in this country, it is nowhere near the figure that the government are quoting.

I could argue the toss forever on this one, but the fact is that the NHS is a bottomless pit where money is concerned. It is impossible to fund everything that people think that they need. With every successive change of government and every change that the government decides upon, things get more expensive and people want more.... for example, free IVF treatment, corrective operations for cosmetic treatment etc.

I am glad that we have an NHS and for the most part, I feel that we do a damned good job under increasingly difficult circumstances. I certainly know thousands of people who would have died if it had not been for those services. I can see the day when the NHS will go private, it has already started to happen. You can see the trends towards private care when you look at information on PCTs and Foundation Trusts. When things go private, people in this country will be in for a shock but I reckon that it is being done with stealth and at such a slow pace that the powers that be are hoping that nobody notices.

Patricia Hewitt, the Health Minister may sit in her ivory tower and tell joe public that everything in the NHS is being improved but just remember...... This woman has no health background, she was a social worker... What do most social workers know about the NHS? Nothing...:)

Re: NHS - Is it really that bad?
 

Re: NHS - Is it really that bad?
 

I agree.....and there will be some cultural resistance to it. However, it is already happening in Canada to some degree because people there are fed up with the limitations of their NHS and are now willing to consider at least partial privatization. Canadian doctors have been coming to America for years to practice medicine - and patients cross our border for treatment frequently because of long waits in Canada. Read the following interview with Dr. David Gratzer recently - author of several books on the subject. He's a Canadian doctor who came to the States. He thinks Americans are over-insured when it comes to healthcare. I couldn't agree with him more. As a person who has never over-insured in this regard, I can tell you that the free market works well. More and more doctors here are going completely private......as in not accepting insurance payments at all. It is expensive for them to do the paperwork and insurance companies infringe upon their relationship with the patient. You would perhaps be surprised to find how much less doctors charge when you pay them directly. Even doctors who do accept insurance will always give you a discount if you pay cash. Often a very substantial one. I like dealing one on one with my physicians. www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=25489

Re: NHS - Is it really that bad?
 

Good point, the NHS we have will do very nicely for yours truly, it may have it's drawbacks but it will hopefully not go the way of the 'private' pensions, just remember 'our' health service is overseen by those who do not rely on it for treatment.