How Often does this happen?
 

listening to the news today, one of the guys suspected of killing that unfortunate policewoman in bradford, has reportedly returned to somalia using a female passport and wearing a veil. don,t know if this report is accurate,wasn,t aware you could go through customs wearing one. but this begs the question wether the guy has or hasn,t. if he can/did that, how many TERRORISTS or BOMBERS ETC have done the same?

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i heard the same thing on the news cash, apparently they never check over here but are supposed to check at the other end, its a loada b****x if you ask me,like they said...we seem to have open borders,no one's checked in and no one's checked out :(

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Thing is though if there is a woman going through customs with the veil etc on and there is only male customs officers on then because she isnt allowed to show her face to another man except her husband or family member then she will get through. The only way to do is to make sure there are at least 3 women customs officers on and to check every woman going through - wonder though how long that would take for boarding?

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soz jen thats NOT the only way to do! it should be illegal to pass through any customs anywhere hiding your face.

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Did I hear correctly that it's believed this guy has gone back to Somalia? The country he couldn't be sent back to when he came out of jail because his life would be in danger there! :mad:

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YEP willow you heard correctly that is what is alleged.

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I agree with you cashy.. The veil should be banned from being worn going through any airport etc in the world and if this does turn out to be the case then maybe it will shake up our government and stop them taking the bloody soft aproach

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yeh cherokee but wether it is the case or not the government need a bloody good shake IF veils ARE allowed to be worn through customs, what the hells the use of a passport photograph?:mad:

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(think) It Said On News He Woud Have Gone Through 5 Diff Forms Of Security Which Imho One Is Bad Enough Let Alone 5.......

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just another observation.;) when a thread like this is live our political members seem very conspicuous by their abscence. back on thread now 5 is ridiculous,that bit i never heard.

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im here! but then again im not seen as political am i!!! :D

I dont know how he managed to get through 5 - i couldnt even get checked in before i got dragged off to a little room!!!

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no you aint jen youse seen as human.:D

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I think some people might disagree with you on that one!!! :D

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its a while since i went through th airport ..but im sure they gave 5 examples on news although i may be wrong and i can only think of 3 at this end and one at the other where your photo should be checked..
1..checkin
2..passport control
3..boarding plane
and other end at customs

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When i fly to ireland i used to be stopped all over the place and to be ready to show my id. not just at check in they used to stop you and ask to see id and your ticket at the check in, when you were going through to the departure lounge, then stop you again when you left that, going down the concourse and then stop you again going down the stairs even though you were within sight of the last check in!

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Im staying away because I havn't watched the news, but if it is how I understand it to be from this thread, well.. its just shocking.
To be honest I don't think people should be able to cover their face in very few public places really. Heck even in shops, people could steal things and hide their face to protect their identity if caught on CCTV so im quite against it really.

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when i came back from barcelona last year a woman with a veil went through without removing it for identification


also watched a program where they followed a famouse reporter crossing boarders in the far east interviewing various gurila groups / freedom fighters but because he was british he wold have been killed or taken hostage so they dressed him up in womens gear with a veil etc and they didnt even look at him twice

forget the reporters name hes a war corespondant with white hair and a bit chubby

its a very common metod of smuggling wanted me across boarders over there so it dosnt surprise me if it was used to get a wanted man out of the uk especialy with how scared authorities are to ask for a veil to be removed

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Because we bow to PC power on this it will happen on a regular basis. Even if a half doz terrorist got in and bombed the gaff they still wouldnt ask for them to be removed in case human rights are violated.

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I never realised you were in such demand 'over there' Chav that you had to be smuggled across borders! :D

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come on Willow be honest you know as well as anyone that the only way Chav can get into a country is being smuggled in, who in their right min would let him in voluntarily :D :D

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The reason they cant find Bin Laden is that he is in the UK after being smuggled in under cover ie a veil. :eek:

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It was also on the news that Check In & Boarding do not have wanted lists. So even if they had made him lift his veil, they wouldn't know that he was wanted by the police.

As for the guy who fled to Somalia (where he feared for his life) I hope he fears for his life until the day he is killed!!!!!

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Surely, this whole incident illustrates a few different points.

1) Why are people allowed to go through airport security with their faces covered by veils?

2) Why are asylum seekers who commit crimes in this country not returned to their country of origin as a matter of course, whatever the danger? I heard some government lacky on TV last night say that we didn't do this because we are "a civilised country". Well, as far as I'm concerned a civilised country protects its citizens of whatever race, creed or colour.

3) How genuine was this asylum application anyway, as this individual seemed to have no qualms about returning to his so-called "dangerous" country?

4) Finally, Mr C has raised a point which I've been harping on about in the law and order threads for some time. How come political party members like Graham Jones and Gayle who are usually so voluble, strangely fall silent when we are talking about subjects like this? Why don't we hear from the mighty Greg Pope himself on the subject? Is it because they know that if they tried to defend their party's policy, they would find themselves at odds with most ordinary folk? And fair play to Cyfr, at least he had the bottle to come on here and state his views, although I suspect that they are not in line with Conservative party policy.

And before any of our more PC-minded members accuse me of being a racist, I'm married to a non-white immigrant!

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last time i flew i even had to take my baseball cap off so why should u be allowed to wear a veil
they should be banned
they probably didnt get stopped because of the growing risk to anyone who questions them of them screaming racial harrasment and yet another one takes our government to court

Re: How Often does this happen?
 

) Finally, Mr C has raised a point which I've been harping on about in the law and order threads for some time. How come political party members like Graham Jones and Gayle who are usually so voluble, strangely fall silent when we are talking about subjects like this? Why don't we hear from the mighty Greg Pope himself on the subject? Is it because they know that if they tried to defend their party's policy, they would find themselves at odds with most ordinary folk? And fair play to Cyfr, at least he had the bottle to come on here and state his views, although I suspect that they are not in line with Conservative party policy. -------------------------------------------------------- EXACTLY wyn though i didn,t name anyone these are the people my comments were aimed at! certainly not young cyfr,who aint a bad old stick. but this to me is a very serious topic/point,there pretty quick to comment on things that dont affect peoples lives that much,yet deafning silence on things that could be the death of people, maybe its fear of upsetting the wrong people,wheras i dont have that problem. so to these folk i say, WHERE DO YOU STAND ON PEOPLE WEARING VEILS GOING THROUGH CUSTOMS?

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with you all the way there cashy

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cheers jedi but i,m deadly serious.:)

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I see where your coming from lolly but if they made someone/everyone lift thier viel and behind it they discover a man then that should be enough to raise suspision wthout needing wanted lists.....

GET RID OF THE VIEL COMPLETELY ......

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What i say is have more women customs officers and so if someone does go through wearing a veil then the women customs officers would then ask them to step into a separate room and ask them to unveil themselves so they can then check their passports. If they refuse even then to unveil themselves then they dont fly or sail or whatever. That way then they are checked. By the way have cctv in the room and a male customs officer standing outside and instead of letting them go back out the way they came in there would be another door leading onto the concourse so they cant then go back into the normal side and so swap identities with a bloke. In otherwords what they used to do when i was flying to ireland. Theyve already got the stuff they need to do it with - just may have to move it from a different terminal.


By the wynonie - i will admit it - i am a branch secretary of the Labour Party and i havent been quiet have i?

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No one with or without veils or any other type of clothing, should be admitted into this or any other country, without having the correct facial and documentary checks. It is truly frightening to learn things are otherwise.

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As far as I understand this hasn't been proved to be the case, it may have happened, it may not.

What is shocking is the fact that could have happened.

Passport photographs are now being rejected if you smile, yet you can swan through passport, immigration and all security points wearing a veil.

Something is badly wrong.

It's almost laughable if it wasn't so serious a threat to national security.

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hasnt that always been the case (no smiling)???


Im sorry but in this country it has become one rule for us and another for those who persist on INTIMIDATING our government..

Most officials are too affraid to ask simple Qs like "please would you lift your veil" in fear of condemnation...

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According to this report it would be unlikely to have happened because women 'can' be asked to lift their veils!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6195581.stm


What utter rubbish. Everyone should face the same security checks, regardless of religion. My friend had a bottle of gin confiscated this week, after asking if it was okay to purchase it after an interconnecting flight at Heathrow. The reason given being 'security'

I think I see a new career opening up. After buying a fetching black outfit and matching veil, I shall then be strapping guns and heroin about my person, and away I go unaccosted.

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AS I SAID .....INTIMIDATING........



SOD THE SENSITIVE ISSUES THIS IS OUR COUNTRY:hititbana AND IT NEEDS PROTECTING....

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I can't be arsed to read the thread but I agree with you, there's far too much to lose.......We've been to bloody soft.

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Stop shouting at me.:o
You're intimidating me. :D



http://www.boingboing.net/images/veil.1841.jpg

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LMAO!!! ooops sorry rinds... dindnt mean to shout..:D

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Bloody hell Mandy, What a ****ing inprovement.....:D

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:D well this should make you all feel better
www.gamerebels.com/game/494.html

click on bin laden capture

Re: How Often does this happen?
 

No, you haven't been quiet, Shillelagh, and respect to you for that. However, why should customs have to go through all the rigmarole you describe above? Anyone wearing a veil should have to remove it at any security checkpoint as a matter of course, whether there's a male present or not. If they don't like it, they don't fly, it's as simple as that. And if you think that sounds draconian, it's nothing compared to a country like Holland where it is against the law to wear a face covering in a public place.

However, the other point which this whole affair has highlighted is the fact that asylum seekers can commit any crime including murder, yet cannot be deported at the end of their sentence, if their country of origin is deemed too "dangerous". Now, I'm sure that the vast majority of people in this country will, like me, be thinking along the lines of "they should have thought of that before they committed the crime". But not this government. According to John Denham, the government lacky I was referring to, it enables us to be a member "of the club of civilised countries" and "hold our heads up". So there you are, you can be assaulted, shot or murdered by someone who has sought out this country as a place of refuge and has then abused our hospitality in the most appalling way. But you can hold your head up, secure in the knowledge that this hospitality will go on being extended indefinitely.

Shillelagh, if this post comes across as being racist, I apologise. In 20 years of marriage to a non-white person, I have seen firsthand the effects of racism and I despise it. However, I actually think that situations like the above are playing right into the hands of the racists and that's not good for any of us of whatever race, creed or colour!

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well said wynonie.:)

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it wont be the first time its happened bet it happens all the time and they get away with it like they get away with everything

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I totally agree with you Wynonie. Along with other PC nonsense these sort of things just turn people against each other.

When someone commits a crime their plea of "my human rights" should go out the window.

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never has a truer word been spoken

if they abuse the laws of this land then they should be sent back from whence they came regardless

the time for pussyfooting around has long gone
the government needs to shape up and harden up they are too quick to punish us brits for the slightest little thing but if you're from an ethnic minority background feel free to do as you wish

i say that us british are now the ethnic minority in our own country


I am British and this is Britain - I want my country back!

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The figures don't back up that claim. 92.1% of the UK population are white.

http://www.ipa.co.uk/diversity/commu..._overview.html

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the whole idea of statistical research is that the surveys can made to reflect the results that are required.so i dont hold much belief in government funded statistics

maybe i should have said second class citizens instead!

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I'm sorry if you feel that I've been ignoring this thread but you'll be able to see from the rest of the site that I haven't been on line for a few weeks. So, not intentionally ignoring you all.

However, I would also like to state that I am not a 'political' member as keeps being pointed out. I stood for council in May because I want to do something for the local area (primarily Oswaldtwistle but beyond that Hyndburn) that does not mean that I have views on all things political. Ask me about the potholes in Union Road and I have plenty of things to say but wider national politics then I'm afraid I'm just with you guys. Sometimes my views are in line with national government, sometimes they aren't.

As for my opinion on this subject (and remember it is only my opinion - not a party line or political statement), I think that people in authority i.e. passport control or police should be allowed to ask a woman to raise their veil - this should be done by a female and the woman could also be accompanied by a male member of her family to ensure that everyone was safe and happy. If the woman or her husband objects then they should not be allowed to fly.

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In that case why didn't you stand as an independent? Surely the fact that you are a member of the Labour party and stood as a Labour candidate must mean something. Obviously even the most committed party member can't agree with their party hierarchy on every subject. But to say that sometimes you agree with your government and sometimes you don't is a bit of a cop out. If that's the case, what's the point of being in the Labour party at all?

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Because I believe in the Labour party in Hyndburn, I believe that they are they are the party that could do something positive for this area, as opposed to the Conservative party who have been in power for the last six years! Local politics is completely different from national politics. So I don't blindly support the government and I don't have to - in fact, I'd be more worried about people who do blindly support the governmental without question.

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So would I. That's why I said that you couldn't be expected to support your party hierarchy on every subject. However, to infer that the local Labour party is some sort of completely separate entity from the national Labour party seems a bit wide of the mark to me. They are part of the same organisation, after all.

The thing is, when we're all knocking this present government, one after another, on anything and everything from law and order to the NHS, I'd just like someone to come on here and fight their corner, because it would make the discussion more interesting!

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if they were made to lift veils to female staff gayle,surely that would mean the airports having to employ more staff,the air companies having higher charges imposed,the price of flights rising etc etc so all the travelling public have to pay the price,why the hell should we? its simple a passport demands a photo,so passport control SHOULD see a face. not racist just COMMON SENSE.

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It doesn't say anywhere in the Quaran that women have to wear the hijab, just that both men and women should dress modestly. It's all down to interpretation.

Then again it doesn't say in the Bible that priests have to be celibate, or indeed even male, and nothing at all about going to live in same sex cloisters, and taking a vow of silence.

Religion.

Strange and mystical by it's very nature.

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The other thing is, Gayle, that this is a two-part question and I see you've carefully avoided answering the other issue. Should an asylum seeker who has committed a serious crime be deported back to his own country at the end of his sentence, even if it is thought that this country is dangerous?

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Renewed mine in September, and yes, can't smile anymore,straight at the camera, no glasses, no baseball caps, lots, lots, lots more and definitely no veils !

Even the size of the photograph has to be correct, a millimetre out will definitely cause rejection, and you in a certain postition in the photo .. took mine at the General PO in Accy and counter clerk stated "Well, yes .. should be OK !!" Well, hope so, did it in their official booth. (Twice.. don't ask) Luckily was, just in time for me hols. You should see the photo when it comes back officially .. that cannot be me. :(

Of course, nobody should get through control without showing the officials their face ... utter nonesense. Do they ? Do we know for sure ?

Sad thing here is that these Somalians were let into this country in the first place despite having a string of known offences.

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Of course, nobody should get through control without showing the officials their face ... utter nonesense. Do they ? Do we know for sure ? ----- seems to be the case Katex as thats how the somalian guy was alleged to have returned home.

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Thought it was all speculation cashman .. has it been confirmed then ?

How did they know it was 'he' if he was veiled .... :confused:

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thats irrelevant cos wether he did or not its the fact that he could! thats what really razzes me off.

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Well, I will not argue with that one Cashman .. just seems incredible though, doesn't it that veiled persons are let through without facial checks ? .. can't quite believe it somehow.:confused:

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that was why i started this thread katex (post1) it was incredible to me and i,m still slavering about it.

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Having been involved in it I can say that local politics is very different from national politics. Obviously, they are connected but I don't believe you need to be interested in national politics to want to do something good for the area that you live in.

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Why is my view on this so important to you? The person to ask is your MP as he can have some influence over the laws governing this.

I will state one final time. My view on national politics is not the reason I stood for local council.

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Gayle, you may wish to stick to local politics, but I reckon you're wasted. You'd make a great national politician with your amazing aptitude for avoiding questions.

Are you seriously telling me that you only have views on local issues and you have no views at all on national issues? And if you do have views on national issues, what's the big deal about sharing them with us?

Could it be that if you defend the government line on, say, deporting asylum seekers who have committed serious crimes, you are worried about alienating potential future voters if you run again? And, equally, if you attack government policy, you are worried that you will incur the wrath of the Labour hierarchy and you won't be asked to run again?

Ah well, I suppose we'll never know!

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Of course I have views on national issues - I just don't have to share them with you!

It is most unlikely that I will be standing for local council again so whether I upset voters or the Labour hierarchy it is never going to be an issue.

I am not a politician, nor do I purport to be. If I want to take part in a thread I will do, if I choose not to then I don't see why I should be forced to.

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As I said, anything to avoid answering a question. Tony Blair would be proud of you!

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I answer many, many questions on here and give many opinions. In fact, I think I've already given my views on this thread already.

If you want an official political view - ask Graham Jones, Greg Pope or even Peter Britcliffe (I can let you have his address if you want). I'm sure that all of those politicians will be able to help you. I on the other hand have other arguments to fry - anyone want to ask me about art?

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Well, make up your mind, Gayle. One minute you're telling me you don't have to share your views with me, the next you're telling me that you've given me your views. In fact, you haven't on the subject I raised but, don't worry, I'm giving up trying to get an answer out of you. I suppose even Jeremy Paxman has to call it a day sometimes!