Apologize for Slavery?
 

What are your guys thoughts on this? It's very interesting to read others thoughts on this issue (Post Thoughts). Seems huge majority agree with him. This has been a long simmering issue over here and hopefully this will trigger a debate that gets people to stand up and say enough is enough!

Brian


Lawmaker Under Fire for Slavery Comment

By BOB LEWIS
AP
RICHMOND, Va. (Jan. 16) - A state legislator said black people "should get over" slavery and questioned whether Jews should apologize "for killing Christ," drawing denunciations Tuesday from stunned colleagues.


http://cdn.news.aol.com/aolnews_phot...17061709990001
Steve Helber, AP
Virginia state Del. Frank Hargrove, right, defends saying that black people "should get over" slavery, in response to a measure that would apologize to slave descendants on behalf of the state. "Are we going to force the Jews to apologize for killing Christ?" he asked.

Talk About It: Post Thoughts






Del. Frank D. Hargrove, 79, made his remarks in opposition to a measure that would apologize on the state's behalf to the descendants of slaves.

In an interview published Tuesday in The Daily Progress of Charlottesville, Hargrove said slavery ended nearly 140 years ago with the Civil War and added that "our black citizens should get over it."

The newspaper also quoted him as saying, "are we going to force the Jews to apologize for killing Christ?"

Black lawmakers swiftly denounced Hargrove's comments.

"When somebody tells me I should just get over slavery, I can only express my emotion by projecting that I am appalled, absolutely appalled," said Del. Dwight C. Jones, head of the Legislative Black Caucus.

Del. David L. Englin also criticized Hargrove's remarks, recalling that his grandparents were driven from their homes in Poland "by people who believed that as Jews, we killed Christ."

When Hargrove rose to speak, he told Englin he didn't care about Englin's religion. "I think your skin was a little too thin," Hargrove said as lawmakers gasped and groaned.

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

I think what most people should remember is that the black tribes in Africa kidnapped members of other black tribes to sell to the traders ... summat they seem to conveniently forget, so no apology necessary methinks.

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

Slavery didn't end until well into the 20th Century!
Laws change but attitudes remain.
The guy's an idiot.

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

he's got a valid point
the start of slavery had sod all to do with him or anyone else alive today for that matter why the hell should anyone apologise.
it is about time the blacks took that giant redwood of a chip off their shoulders and got over something that started 100's of years ago.
anyhoo the grand old us of a boasts such a vast array of mongrels and misfits from so many races who is to say that the one who does the apologising doesn't turn out to be related via ancestry to the ones being apologised to?

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

I feel I must apologise for my anglo saxon ancestors for not beating those damn French Norman's :rolleyes:

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

Slavery has not yet ended. There was a good article on the ongoing problem of slavery about a year ago in the National Geographic. Frankly, as it has a tendency to recur, given the least opportunity, it will take continued vigilance to keep slavery to a minimum.

I'm not sure what real good it does to have governments apologize to the folks held as slaves. After all, they are all long dead! On the other hand, I don't see a lot of harm in it, either. Perhaps it makes the descendents of slaves feel a bit better? Frankly, I view these apologies as fairly meaningless, but it is not worth getting upset or fighting over the issue if it makes some folks feel a bit better.

I certainly see no need to apologize for slavery on a personal level, or for any other acts that I never committed.

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

:eek:
What?!!!
So all blacks are moaning about slavery? Eh?

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

My what a nice little racist you are, jedimaster!

Of course, given human nature, anyone who believes himself (or herself) pure-blooded is just fooling one person - themselves! While DNA testing can indeed answer some of the questions, how many among us really know what invading army, handsome gypsy, travelling salesman, sexual predator, etc., might have had a romp with one's own great-granny!

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

Second thoughts, nah the sons/grandsons/great grandsons don't need apologies.

& hey while we're at it, let's tell those moaning old windbags that lost people to 9/11 to shut up! The victims all dead anyways.

Put the shoe on the other foot for a change.

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

Thats a little different, they were killed very recently and more than likely by the CIA or some other American Government agency.

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

Don't worry about racists like jedimaster. He's shown his true colors, so we now know how to deal with him.

We should not forget that the deliberate disenfranchisement of large portions of the African-American community did not end until almost 100 years after the end of the Civil War (for those from the South, let that read The War Between the States), nor did the oppression legally codified in the "Jim Crow" laws and the Plessy v. Ferguson Supreme Court decision which condoned the creation of separate but equal rule for the races.

Of course, separate turned out to be the rule, but it certainly was far less than equal. It took until 1954 for Brown v. Little Rock Board of Education to overturn Plessy, and many years afterwards to enforce the law.

Not to mention the generally unpunished beatings, rapings and lynchings so often done by the Ku Klux Klan!

Slavery may have ended legally in the USA with Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation (at least in the Confederate States, with the rest of the country to follow shortly), but a lot of the trappings of slavery remained in place for a long, long time!

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

sounds like a 'good ole boy' to me , all this started because the US Govt. was dumb enough to give all that money to the Japanese who were interned during WWII.

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

Would you care to provide some documentation for that outrageous claim?

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

jedi master i was right all the time you are a racist and youve been caught redhanded

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

When I find it I will provide a you tube link to a documentary about it. There are just too many inconsistencies with the planes causing the building to fall. Watch it with an open mind when I find the you tube link for you.

I don't think the Americans went to the moon either.

Before you ask, no I am not a conspiracy theorist or anything. :D

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

A you tube "documentary?" That ought to be amusing!

Why would not not believe that we landed astronauts on the moon?

Have you recently seen Elvis, too?

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

Willow, that's why I emphasized that it should be an apology by the government, not by individuals. I also said that I did not see it as being particularly harmful or helpful for most folks.

Asking individuals to apologize for things they have never done is inappropriate. Asking nations to apologize for past actions that they have done is somewhat different.

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

Since the CSA no longer exisists that would be difficult :rolleyes:

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

You've lost me there Steeljack.:confused:

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

the CSA (Confederate States of America) how can they apologise since it/they no longer exist , being the losing side in the civil war they were then incorporated back into the USA ;)

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

It happened before any of us were born, if I or any member of my family continued to be involved in slavery then I would have something to apologise for.

But several hundred years ago we, the British outlawed slavery, (even though it had brought some of us riches).

Slavery was used at the time and people of that time were ignorant and considered it normal practice, if we, as 'enlightened' people still used it as normal practice then we would have something to apologise for, but we don't use slavery.

We of this day and age should not be taken to task for what was done before we were born,



Life will give us our own reasons to feel guilty.

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

I do not want any government official to apologise, on my behalf, for what happened some 200 years ago. I had no influence, and therefore I bear no resposibility for those happenings. These apologies are just 'weasel words' they do nothing at all to promote any degree of racial harmony, and could even be seen as 'brown nosing'.

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

Slavery was hardly exclusive to the 1861-65 period during which the CSA existed, nor was it exclusive to the states that joined the CSA. In fact, when you look at the period 1776 to 1865, the life of the CSA was less than 5% of the period in which the USA had slavery. Little known fact - in most of the original 13 US states, slavery continued to exist well into the 19th century.

Of course, there were several slave states that did not join the CSA - Missouri, Maryland, and Kentucky.

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

thats the point , the 'Northern States' by abolishing slavery , admitted that it was wrong and I fail to see why any further apology is required .

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

But if you admit that you have done something wrong, it is customary to apologize. At least, that's what I was raised to do.

I don't see that an apology from the government harms anyone.

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

The American people are not being gathered for referendum on a country-wide apology here.
The American government was responsible, therefore should apologize if it is wanted.
That's the way the way I see it...seems pretty harmless and simple to me.

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

shakermaker, that's about where I come out on this issue.

Not sure what good an apology will do, but don't see what harm it causes, so I'm quite puzzled as to why some folks object so strenuously.

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

You I presume haven't owned any slaves who are now free , so what do you have to apologize for ......nothing.
If the Govt. issues an apology its an admission of guilt and therefore opens up a can of worms for reparations, similar to whats happening in present day Germany , young folks (2 generations away from WW2) having to pay taxes support reparations to Isreal

so whats next , we apologize to the Japanese for Hiroshima and Nagasaki ? :rolleyes:

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

Heaven forbid!!
The innocent people there are still nuked up to their eyeballs but hey, they shot you first right?

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

i think there is sometin sinister about the americans inventing this 3rd generation apology concept and for blak american slaves only it seems. its to deflect attention aaway from their more recent more damaging wrongdoings in hiroshima and iraq. if they apologise after so many generations they are perferct nonwrongdoers who are so good they even correct past sins. . im certain of this trickery by the americans so i dont believe in these superficial apologies

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

i dont want anyone to apolgies on my behalf either as i had nout to do with it,and i think that every country has had slavery from its own people the poor lads that thought that they were getting free ale from the sailors or just be snached from the street only to wake up on deck next morning and be told that they have to work for them,i dont think they got any apology

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

Personally, I do not have anything to apologize for, but I have clearly stated my position on personal apologies already, so let's not go over that ground again.

As far as the government's apology is concerned, I fail to see how it necessarily opens up a can of worms regarding reparations. The apology and reparation are two separate issues. First of all, the plaintiffs (as well as their children and virtually all of their grandchildren), are long dead, so I'm not convinced that anyone has standing to bring a lawsuit, as no one who was personally enslaved can claim damages. Nor can we give these dead slaves or ex-slaves any sort of justice, save for an apology. Also, those who might have liability, the slaveowners, are also all dead. The statutory period in which to bring a civil action for torts that ceased to occur in 1865 expsired many, many years ago. Also, There is not reason why, given all these factors, the legislature could include provisions in the law for a summary dismissal of any lawsuits seeking reparations.

BTW, reparations were given to the surviving Japanese internees from WWII, but this is a different case. These internees were still alive.

Frankly, I think that those who just plain and simple do not care to apologize are raising the spectre of reparations in order to scare uninformed voters into taking their side. Pretty much the same tactic that was done vis-a-vis the alleged WMDs in Iraq. I have a really strong distaste for those who attempt to scare me into doing anything - in large part because folks who resort to such tactics generally are unable to persuade using logic and real evidence!

Again, I do not see any harm in the governement issuing an apology.

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

If they apologize first for their actions in Manchuria, Singapore, Pearl Harbor, etc., it might be a good idea.

Basically, it's much akin the the fellow who starts the fight admitting he was wrong, and the fellow who clobbered him in return saying, sorry I hurt you. We could do well with a bit more - hell, a lot more - civility and mutual respect in this sorry old world.

Certainly, the actions of the western allies during the post-WWII occupation of Japan and Germany were of a respectful and forgiving nature. Forgive the people, adminster justice as appropriate for war crimes to the leaders.

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

how many times is slavery going to be appoligosed for it seems every few years an appology is demnded

they should get over it and find somat else to moan about

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

Should we appologise for slavery?

No.

Should we make sure it is stamped out globally, as Billcat pointed out there are still many indebted workers in the world today, who are slaves all but in name, and should we make sure it never happens again on the scale it did?

Yes.

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Slave_wo...reed_by_police

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

quite right, although as we are referring to an american situation i didn't feel the necessity of dragging ones own country into the discussion and as you have just agreed with my point i believe that either you must be a racist too or you owe me an apology for wildly accusing me of being one
i do hope you aren't going to trash yet another serious thread with wild accusations and personal attacks billy-boy!

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

So is this sarcasm about nukes or just a stupid comment?

If you actually belive your statement you had better start apologising to Arabs for screwing up the Middle East, remember it was the brits that split up Saudi and formed Iraq, the Rhodesians for screwing up their country, South Africa for introducing Aparthaid and Internment, India for most of the problems they have today between Muslim, Hindu and Sikhs. In fact find a country the brits have been in and they haven't screwed it up, murdered millions or generally raped it of all its valuable goods. A little bit of over kill was used in India.........
The Jallianwala Bagh Massacre, also known as the Amritsar Massacre, was named after the Jallianwala Bagh (Garden) in Amritsar, where, April 19th 1919, British soldiers under the command of Brigadier-General Reginald Dyer opened fire on an unarmed gathering of men, women and children. The firing lasted about 10 minutes and 3600 rounds were fired from guns and the new, recently arrived Tanks. Official sources place the casualties at 1379. According to private sources, the number was over 5,000, with more than 2000 wounded and Civil Surgeon Dr Smith indicated that they were over 1800 buried in pits. Oh yeah they didn't fire first.

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

why shoudl there be an appology all the slaves are dead and gone and my generation certainly didnt enslave them

it would be like me approaching the german govenment and demanding an appology for them shooting at my grandad or great grandad even

sod em the whining sods , slavery had nothing to do with them they just want a good old whinge and cry and seen as the race card is wearing thin i guess crying about long dead people been enslaved is all they have left to moan about

there has already been an appology for slavey so why do they need another ?

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

Agree with you? Obviously, you have taken leave what little senses you ever had, jedidisaster!

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

Simply because it does nobody any harm, and because slavery was wrong. Even the framers of the Declaration of Independence understood that slavery was a major problem, but decided to perpetuate the situation. There are many, many African-Americans alive today whose lives were gravely affected by the Jim Crow laws and other forms of American apartheid. These laws were put in place because America reneged on the concept that these people were equal in the eyes of the law. It took about a century after the Civil War to get serious about eliminating the ongoing effects of slavery.

When you distill the arguments against makng the apology, it effectivlely comes down to "I don't wish to apologize." Nobody has shown that there is any other reason not to do it.

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

This discussion could go on for ever and never reach a conclusion, why because in one way and another it has been and still is part of life, there are and will be people getting rich of the backs of lesser educated/informed individuals whether you pay them a pittance or just feed them. What we have to do is try to learn from the lessons of history, this lesson was not heeded after WW1 when the French bankrupted Germany and caused WW2, I have also read in this discussion about how we robbed/ raped India etc, I think they have more than had their money back. No as willowthewhisp stated we should move forward and not be forever looking over our shoulders at the wrongs, yes, and the rights our forebears did. All the apologizing in the world can not change history.

Re: Apologize for Slavery?
 

Well said Ian! Also, please know there are many blacks who are not in favor of all this talk of "whoa is me." They feel, as do I, that this is a devicive issue that causes more separation and anger then it problems it may attempt to solve.

IMO, I believe issues like this are used for mainly political reasons. Allows folks like Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton to stay in the forefront as the self presumed/proclaimed leaders of American blacks.

To understand these issues, I attend a black church up the road from my house after attending a church in town with the family. Actually for any issue I struggle with, I try to talk to as many different people as possible to get their opinions. These are then weighed then digested, allowing me to reach a defensable conclusion.

Nuff said (by me)!

Brian