Young Drivers
 

There is talk of changing/extending driving tests for young drivers.

The artical.

It is a sobering statistic early in a new year, but, on recent form, more than a thousand young drivers will be killed or seriously injured in the course of 2007. The accident rate for young drivers, especially young male drivers, is wildly disproportionate when compared with older motorists, and still striking when contrasted with women of the same age.


Furthermore, the greater the number of young people travelling together as driver and passengers, the more likely is the chance of an accident when compared with an older group of people. Speed is often the cause of tragedy, but it is sometimes just a matter of inexperience. New drivers are often unfamiliar with the road at night and have no notion of operating on a motorway until first setting out on their own.

This is not acceptable. Stephen Ladyman, the Road Safety Minister, is right to contend, as he does in his interview with The Times today, that more rules need to be imposed. In Britain new motorists “first pass the test, then learn to drive”. The current driving test rewards young men for being technically competent enough to manage the requirements asked, but ignores that their attitudes might be quite inappropriate for the road. Overseas experience suggests that it is possible to cut the number of deaths and accidents substantially if a fresh approach is taken.

Ministers appear to be open-minded on what strategy is best. The Department for Transport is, nevertheless, interested in a “deal” under which young people start learning to drive at an earlier age — perhaps 16 — but must record many more hours behind the wheel (100 or more) before being permitted to take their test. Sweden has adopted this formula and has far lower fatalities and injuries as a result.

There are, nevertheless, some difficulties with this. At present rates, anyone learning to drive with a professional instructor will pay far more to acquire his or her licence if the 100-hour norm is accepted. That prospect might lead teenagers to look to friends and relatives to teach them rather than to those better qualified.

This might be averted if driving could be integrated into the school curriculum, but it is hard to imagine how this might be done at the moment, given the many demands on the crowded timetable. There is also the real risk that driving records could be faked. Other options should be considered.

There are a number of possibilities. These include making the present test much harder, so that failure at the first attempt is the acknowledged norm. In Germany, young people can hold a licence at 17 but cannot drive alone until 18. Other countries impose night-time curfews on young drivers or limit the number of passengers they can carry. All of these schemes deserve serious investigation. Pilot projects should be contemplated. Britain cannot continue with the status quo.
After the age of 25, British drivers are as safe as those in other countries. Fatalities are concen-trated at the young end of the age spectrum. It should not be assumed that teenage males, in particular, have a “right to drive” when they are doing so much damage to themselves, their passengers and those who have the misfortune to share the road with them. The combination of more hours behind the wheel before being allowed to go solo, a more robust test and greater restrictions on young men might be sensible. Something must be done.

I think there are some good ideas. Something needs to be done.

Maybe limit the types of car Power / Age also.

They should also incorrparate something for the insurance (Had to chav.;) ) as it is very had for a new / young drivers to afford insurance.

Re: Young Drivers
 

Re: Young Drivers
 

I think the main thing to get over to younger drivers is speed awareness. Im only 23 and id say i was a young driver. When i was 18 to 21 ish i had the stereotypical modified car which id spent thousands on. Id speed yes but not round town centres or doing 120 on motorways etc. Id say i was a good driver for my age as ive never had a crash and im now employed as a driver. So not all young drivers are idoits but there is a problem.

Re: Young Drivers
 

On bikes, you can't go over a certain power/size for a period after your test. There is also an age stepped restriction on learning to ride big bikes.

At the end of the day, bikes and cars are exciting to most young lads. Its been driven into them that fast cars and bikes are cool, they don't see cars as transport like young girls(in the majority you feminists! :D ) do, they see them as some expression of their macho image. Its this fundamental aspect of car ownership that skews the figures so much, nowt to do with driving ability.

Re: Young Drivers
 

:D
this annoys the hell out of me basicly because at £55 i think it is a test peopel can not afford to fail , if they expect you to fail the first test then it should be free - yet another tax for motorists

dont forget you may have your license now but 6 points in 2 years and anyone looses their license now not just new drivers if i am correct and has to re take a test which the govenment are thinking to make so difficult you fail the forst time

they aleady added a theory test - yep another cash earner from teh motorist , while it is good to know the highway code there is no need to have to travel to preston and click a few mouse buttons at about £25 i think it was a go

i agree young drivers shoud be limited to maximum 1 liter vehicles then that way with all the extra fins and spolers etc they wont be able to break speed limits


NO they shoudl not make insurance unnafordable there is enough folk driving around without insurance as it is and besides with the prospect of getting a REAL job after leaving school insurance is probably unaffordable to young people alread

good to see the govrenment yet again using statistics as an excuse to screw motorists in one way or another

what about getting the elderly off teh roads they are just as much a danger to anyone as a young driver is


over to you Mr D lol :D :D

Re: Young Drivers
 

I agree with most of that.:eek:

It is a problem that needs looking at a 17yr male in BB post code is paying on average £2000 + to insure a car.

If they brough some new test in at an extra cost then on completion of this test I feel insurance companies should give a sizable discount to offset the extra cost.

A bit like the 'Pass Plus' at the moment but a bit more indepth.

That way its all round worth it.

Re: Young Drivers
 

Nope, its 12 points over 3 years to get a 12 month ban, no retest unless ordered by a magistrate or judge during a dangerous driving charge.

Fliipin heck Chav, at this rate of sensationlism you'll be offered a job on teh NOTW before long

Re: Young Drivers
 

whats that then ?


dont do that it kinda creeps me out :confused:

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whats what, MOTW or a job? :D

Re: Young Drivers
 

i have a job thankyou :p

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Why should a young driver spend two grand on insurance?

If caught, Hyndburn Magistrates will only slap them with a £200 fine at the most.

Re: Young Drivers
 

They wont resrict power or engine size i dont think. Would be funny though to see poor little rich girls/boys with millions having to drive puntos etc.

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Thats why my friends younger brother doesnt bother.

he was quoted 3100 on a ford escort on a 97 plate

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hope he dosnt run into me :eek:

mind you that price is extotionate was it a RS cosworth or somthing ?

Re: Young Drivers
 

Nope just a plan boggy LX 1.3 and when asked for the value he said 50 pound.

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Exactly.

New drivers have a 2 year probationary period where 6 point and the loose there licence.

Soon though the Uninsured driver will be greatly reduced.

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No licence, no insurance, an caught speeding, will still only warrant a measly £300 fine.

Lock 'em up say I.

Re: Young Drivers
 

jesus even i coud save a few hundred quid on that scheme :confused:

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Is it any surprise that there's so many uninsured drivers? The premiums are extortionate to say the least on top of the price of driving lessons seemingly increasing all the time. We need to remember that there's a lot of very safe uninsured drivers aswell as the bad ones. The whole argument for making driving tests harder is flooded with sweeping generalisations.

Anyway, if the government sorted a decent public transport system out it would solve a wealth of problems to do with this.

Re: Young Drivers
 

There is no such thing as a safe uninsured driver, the most perfect driver in the world can have an accident which may or may not be his fault, but at least if he is responsible he won't go anywhere without insurance.

Anyone that gets into an un-insured car and risks driving it off deserves the maximum penalty plus quite a bit more, once the law catches up (if ever), with the inflation forced on insurance companies then perhaps the legal and honest drivers will have their premiums cut.:mad:

Re: Young Drivers
 

They should do. It should be down to size of vehicle. So small hatch type cars are lower powered than larger cars.

While they are at it cars might as well be restricted. What's the point of cars that can do over 100mph with a max legal speed limit of 70mph?

It's about time you were not allowed to stupidly modify cars either. The other week a lad was selling a corsa on ebay. He was bragging how it was still insured as a 1.0 GL or something when it had the 2.0L 16 valve engine out of a Vectra.

Re: Young Drivers
 

It has been commented on in this forum that more mature drivers regularly travel on motorways at over 70mph.
I'm sorry but do people really think that all 17+ year olds want to speed and cause accidents, then there's a point in your late twenties when you suddenly become a great driver??
It's ludicrous.

Re: Young Drivers
 

Of course there is such a thing as a safe uninsured driver. just because you dont have insurance it doesnt mean you race around streets. Sorry but when you buy the car its yours and you can do whatever you want to it as far as im concerned without making it unsafe in anyway. And who here is going to say that they have never gone over the speed limit because ill call you a liar right now. everyone as at some point.

Re: Young Drivers
 

Wow, those rates for young drivers is mad! Annie got her license when she turned 16 and I was complaining about a $350 (~200pd) increase to our rates. I believe a 16 year old male over here would be about double that.

She did get a hefty discount for getting good grades. Also, by law, she's not allowed to drive with anyone (except family) under 18, cannot have more then one passenger (except family), and is not allowed to use a cellphone while driving.

Interesting point about young male drivers. She had 4 close male friends have accidents where they totalled their cars. All but one going off the road and either hitting trees or flipping over into a ditch. Luckily they were all unhurt but an unfortunate lesson learned (I hope)!

Brian

Re: Young Drivers
 

I have helped several people through their driving test two of which where my own children, but the main thing that was always told to anyone is that no matter how much it costs, to drive a car it must be legal. For you to say that there are plenty of safe uninsured drivers shows that you are a risk to the greater good and are doing nothing worthwhile to promote the idea of safe young drivers.

However I do know many people over a wide age range from 17 to 80 odd that are responsible drivers because they won't drive without the relevant documents no matter what age they are.

This should be encouraged in, and by, everyone.

Re: Young Drivers
 

Just curious, maybe a good poll question. Is there any interest as to what goes on over here in questions responses like I just made:confused: ? I could easily enough refrain!:rolleyes:

Brian

Oh, forgot to mentioned it is require that all drivers have insurance. I expect there are probaly 10 - 20% that drive without it but that's okay, these are the same blokes who don't have a license or it had been suspended.

Re: Young Drivers
 

No need to refrain from commenting,it gives us extra food for thought as to how we could perhaps alter the way things are done, if we could for example adopt your way of insuring a young person and they were willing to adhere to the restrictions you mention perhaps a decent compromise could be reached?

Re: Young Drivers
 

That post should win a no brainer award. How on earth can someone without insurance be classed as safe?
Someone without insurance should be fined twice the yearly cost that insurance for the car they are driving would have cost them and be banned for 2 years.

Re: Young Drivers
 

I could see an uninsured driver still being a safe driver. Maybe they can't afford those high rates? Wouldn't make them at all honest but may not affect them being safe or not. Heck, might make em safer as they would be less apt to break the law so they could go undetected eh?

Brian

Re: Young Drivers
 

Here we will have to differ, any motor vehicle on the move is a risk to anyone else in the area, the only responsible thing so far as that vehicle is concerned is for it to be legal. After that if you hit and maime/kill someone at least there should be some compensation, though I do wonder if that would be enough to cover personal guilt (as in, If only I'd done things a little differently, nagging doubts I imagine would always be with you).

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Very excellent point Less! I was more thinking of the insurance being on the driver rather than on the vehicle. I believe over here, I am covered by insurance whenever I step in a vehicle. Either way you're right. One must consider the selfishness of driving uninsured!

Brian

Re: Young Drivers
 

Most driver here in the uk over the age of 25 also have the privalege of driving other motor cars, be it Third Party Only cover, they are still legal.

If the car was on a hill and the handbrake failed (I have seen a few of these) the car rolls down the hill and causes damage, whos paying if the car isnt insured.

A safe uninsured driver. yes they are about, but as said this doesnt help when the brakes fail or a tyre blows and they cause a RTA with injury to other INNOCENT partys.

I feel the passenger restriction rule would be a step in the right direction though.

Re: Young Drivers
 

I think if you read the small print on your insurance documents it will say you are covered 3rd party on any car but, only when that car does not belong to you and is already insured by it's owner.

Re: Young Drivers
 

I have yet to read any small print the say the other car must be insured.

The vehicle must not belong to the proposer or be hired to him under a hire purchase agreement. This is the typical wording.

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i mentioned this before

i rang tescos whe i was asking about when i was looking at another car and to drive it home i would have t eiter switch my policy to the car or make sure the owner of teh car i was buying had insurance

i rang again recently after having this discussion and was told that i could not drive another car on my fully comp policy unless the cars owner also had insurance

Re: Young Drivers
 

I have read 20+ Policies. I have spoke to people with a lot of Insurance Knowledge.

98% of Policies - Some may be badly worded

If you are granted the Driving Other Cars Extention. 98% of policies the other car.
DOES NOT NEED TO BE INSURED

Re: Young Drivers
 

Taken From Tesco's Policy Wording.

Section A - Third Party Liability

1. Indemnity to the Policyholder
   
   We will indemnify You against legal liability for damages, claimants costs and expenses in the event of an accident
   Involving:
   1. Your Car.
   2. The driving by You, with the owner's permission, of any motor Car not belonging to You and not hired to You under a hire purchase agreement provided that:
      1. You are entitled by Your effective Certificate of Motor Insurance to drive such a Car.
      2. You observe the licence conditions applicable.
      3. There is no other insurance in force which covers the same claim.
      4. The Car is being driven in Great Britain, Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands.
      In respect of:
      1. Death of or bodily injury to any person.
      2. Damage to property up to a maximum of twenty million pounds subject to General Exception 5.
   Commentary
   
   This Section shows the cover provided for claims made by other parties for bodily injury or damage to their property.
   This part covers claims made against You.
   Cover operates for accidents involving Your Car or (if You are permitted in the Certificate) while You are driving someone else's Car.
   If your Certificate permits You to drive someone else's Car then it should only be in the event of an emergency.
   THIS SECTION DOES NOT COVER ANY LOSS OR DAMAGE TO Your Car OR THE CAR YOU ARE DRIVING.

Who ever you spoke to at tesco's gave you wrong information IMO.

Re: Young Drivers
 

Re: Young Drivers
 

So there is some good points in getting old

Re: Young Drivers
 

Insurance is simply too high for a young driver. I get paid 176 quid a month and I could barely pay the insurance on a car. Now thats not including buying, servicing, running the car or the 76 quid a month that I put into a savings account etc.

So getting a car is pretty much out of the question for me, my plan is to get the license as soon as I turn 17 before the test gets harder and then wait until I come out of uni to get a car, when, despite the fact I will have gone over 4 years without driving, my insurance will be lower.

Re: Young Drivers
 

ask a parent to put you on tehir policy , even if you dont actualy drive their car you will have 4 years no claims when you get your own car and policy - i think !

mr D where are you lol

thats if its not too much to put you on their policy

Re: Young Drivers
 

That is a way of possibly reducing the premium.

However Insurance Companies are wise to this now, if the parent has there own vehicle insured also they will just rate on the youngest driver on the policy.

Named Drivers on policies as a norm do not get No Claims Bonus,

However some will look at it (Direct Line) IIRC will give a No Claims Bonus
to named drivers, now whether that is with them only (and who says they will be cheap) I am not sure.

17Yr olds (male inperticular) will find it very difficult to obtain insurance due to the huge costs involved.

You Checked With Tesco yet Chav.:rolleyes: :D :D

Re: Young Drivers
 

I can't really understand the Insurance companies tarring every young driver with the same brush.
My daughter became a Driving Instructor and advance motorist at 22,but her Insurance premiums only dipped once she was 25.
Strange but true!

Re: Young Drivers
 

No, it doesn't work like that.

I was on my parent's insurance for over twenty years, and never needed to claim.

When it came to insuring my own first car a couple of years ago, all those years didn't count for jack, and I had to be classed as a new driver.

Re: Young Drivers
 

Kids here can only stay on the parents policy until they're 21 (usually while in college) or no longer a dependant.

They've also talked of linking being able to get your first license based on being in school and getting "good" grades. I'm not sure if that's just passing grades i.e. As, Bs, Cs, Ds, no Fs, or getting just As, Bs, and Cs. Thereby both encouraging getting kids to not just pass high school but to actaully put their minds to working at their capacity.

Any thoughts like that over there?

Brian