Tony Blair..good bloke
 

Just caught the end of a programme on BBC2 about what sort of Prime Minister he has been... apart from Iraq, he's not been to bad eh?

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

Tell that to my 24,999 hard-working, underpaid Civil Service colleagues who are to lose their jobs within the next 5 years. It's not just their loss - it's yours too.

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

Ok.. apart from Iraq and Civil Service job cuts.. not too bad... better than having 3 million unemployed and people working for 50p an hour, I worked in the Civil Service when John Major was in power and my job was privatised!

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

I think you need some better bait on your fishing line Mancie :D

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

Yep.. your right lancsdave...ummmmm let me think :)

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

< Tony Blair ...good bloke... >

:eek: You are 'aving a laff!!!!!!!!...... errrrr no not really :angry: couldnt run a pee up in a brewery without spilling beer all over place like he done with this country!!

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

well i liked him... better than maggie thatcher

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

Like I said accymel it could have been (and was) worse...Maggie Thatch and John Major did a kak job..massive riots and strikes, 3 million on the dole..Ah the good old days!

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

got to agree mancie, apart from the holocost Hitler wern,t to bad either.;)

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

isn't there more Civil servants now than there has ever been though west ender? Perhaps its just coming down to a sensible level. with regard to underpaid, there was an article recently that looked at teh whole package including pensions etc and found that public sector was way ahead of those whe worked in teh private sector.

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

threats to cut civil service jobs is mainly gallery-politics.

In fact the state employs over 20% of the working population and the numbers of people employed by the government has risen consistently since 1997.

These jobs are of course paid for by the rest of us who do not have the same entitlements to final salary pensions, long holidays and so on.

The civil service is a gravy train for idlers who could not hack it out in the real world, no surprise they cry so much at the thought of having to work like the rest of us.

Goverment employees, on average, have better pay and conditions than the private sector, except in that there London .

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

No Tony is not a good bloke.

The tax man is srcewing us more than ever before

and the government is borrowing more than ever before (hence our mortgages cost more than most other parts of the developed world)

and still the tit is spending more and more without any sort of control over how it's spent (you a doctor? have 250,000 a year!!!!!) than has been raised in tax and borrowed.



storing up trouble for the future.

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

I'm with you Granny C.:)

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

Although he better than Maggie, I dont think he's that great he would benefit from a backbone!

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

That's right, Mancie, let's ignore Blair's many shortcomings and talk about what happened 20 years ago. Nowt like living in the past, is there?

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

well we look to world war 2 when we need reminding of mistakes so why not look back a bit sooner to remind us of what happens when coservitaves are in power :)

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

Right, so because of what the Tories did 20 years ago, we should now regard Tony Blair as "a good bloke". Well, he's not my idea of a "good bloke"!

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

i think the guys an idiot but why vote somone out whos going to be replaced soon , no point voting cameron in he looks evil to start with and on top of that hes a tory so basicly regarless of what policies he has or what comes out his mouth there isnt realy much else needs saying about him

personaly i would shoot the bloody lot of them and start afresh

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

i think tony's had its moments of brilliantness - and his moments of weaknesses

the fact he went into kosovo and was so determined to - and the first global leader to made him look like a a global player and was widely respected for this. after gettin bitten by this bug he made the grave errors of iraq when there were clearly more area's of the world that needed atention and htey turned away

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

Granny...is that in the past tense? You liked him, but now you don't...or do you mean that you liked him better than Maggie Thatcher?

I don't trust the man...he is like a snake oil salesman...big on talk but little on effective action.....all smoke and mirrors. But then aren't all the politicians the same? In it for what they can get and screwing us for every penny they can? To me they all seem to be a load of kitehawks!

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

That just about sums up my feelings perfectly. But, this thread is about whether or not Blair is "a good bloke" - not Cameron, or Major, or Thatcher. Mancie thinks he is - I reckon he isn't; in fact I think, to use Margaret's memorable phrase, he's "a snake oil salesman."! :D

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

I like him for righting what in my opinion were very unjust laws.

In the end all power corrupts, he's served his purpose, and it's time for a change.

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

I won't argue that hes done a lot for the country, but he has a unique talent for talking things up when they're really not.

I absolutely detest when he stands in Prime Ministers Questions defending the NHS etc with the same facts and figures every week, completely ignoring the fact that the NHS was better 10years ago according to many people who actually work in it.

If he could actually say "Look, we got some things wrong, the NHS is in a state" and let the people who know (doctors and nurses) have more input, then i'd have a lot more respect for him.

As for Thatcher, the normal doom and gloom speakers will bring up the 3million unemployment and such, but it had to happen at some point when things could be manufactured/extracted cheaper in other countries. I think you should really be praising her for what she did about the trade unions, she had a lot of balls to do it, and people who were FORCED to strike by the unions can now get down to work.

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

No, there are far fewer than 30 years ago, doing twice as much work (or trying to).

Regarding pay, most people equate Civil Servants with the "higher" Civil Service and, I quite agree, many of them are very well paid. I'm referring to the "groundforce", the workers who get the real jobs done - the people whose jobs are on the line. The absolutely top pay for them is just over £18K, despite the amount of knowledge and skill they need to do the job well and the degree of responsibilty they require - probably equal responsibilty to an office manager in Industry. The final salary pension, which is being phased out, works out that such a person could retire with a pension of £9K a year - if they have put in 40 years service. Twenty years would give them £4500 a year. It's not a free pension either, we have to pay for it just like anyone else. If there are any other "perks" perhaps you could tell me what they are - because I don't know about them.

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

Better pay than an equivalent paper pushing job in a company office
Better holiday allowance than a paper pushing job in a company office
More "time off sick" on mondays and fridays than paper pushing job in a company office
Better job security than a paper pushing job in a company office
Better pension than a paper pushing job in a company office

Now you know!

Funny, they (low paid civil servants) moan so much but are very, very, very reluctant to resign and join the real world with a rest of us.

Secretly they know they are on a good number.

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

Oh, I wish that were true. I agree it was, to a degree, when I first "joined up" in 1960 (had you been born then?), which is why I worked hard to get qualifications so that I could. It probably still is for some of the bowler-hatted brigade in London, but for the average foot-soldier the days of the "good number" are long gone.


1) Not so - the "paper pusher" grade starts on £9K a year and rises to £15K.
2) Absolute rubbish - where do you get that stupid idea from? Sick Leave is a complete no-no - to the point where people are going to work when they're ill for fear of losing their jobs.
3) Very little job security these days. Read my keyboard - 25000 to lose their jobs within 5 years, on top of the ones who have already been pushed.
4) Which part of my explanation of the pension system went over your head?

It's all academic, in relation to the topic of this thread. My first point was referring to the "acheivements" of Mr. Blair and, I'll repeat, the public will suffer in the long run from the hatcheting of C S jobs.

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

1) still better than the average private sector wage, and that's looking at mean and median averages in order to not massage the figures by a few mega-high earners (see "public sector rich-list")
2) statistics prove it. Public sector workers take a lot more "sick" time off than private sector workers
3) job security is still better in the state than private sector
4) I read all of it thanks. Pensions are still better in the state than private sector. Let me assure you nothing went over my head and there's no need to insinuate stupidity if you want a sensible debate and I'm more than capable of getting out my calculator and going through a cost-benefit pensions payment scenario using as many discounted future cash flow models as you want.(but hey, this is the internet........:p )

Hope the above clarifies. - think the point I'm making is you might think it's crap in the state sector and maybe it is, but the grass is not necessarily greener on the other side.

If the deal is so bad in the state sector, try getting a better deal in the private sector.:)
Or stop whinging!
(no offence intended!)


At least in the private sector you don't have to put up with the unions stirring it up.;)

Finally given the evidence to back up my earlier claims you can withdraw the "rubbish / stupid" inferences. Or back up your arguments......!

Sources:
1) BBC. / Chartered institure of personnel development / The Guardian / Office of NAtional Statistics.
For example:
Office for National Statistics calculated that the average public sector worker earns 20 per cent more than his or her private sector counterpart. The ONS’s Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings shows that public sector workers are not underpaid and exploited. Median hourly pay, excluding overtime, for a public sector worker is £10.50, compared to only £8.71 in the private sector.

2) Office of National Statistics / The Guardian / The Taxpayers Alliance / Centre for Policy studies
Average sick leave per annum: 10 days vs. 7 days

3) The Guardian / Centre for Policy Studies / Manchester University

4) none needed


better get back to the j-o-b..........

ps when I was born is irrelevant, as is what is was like whne you joined up in the 60's.
We dont compete with the past

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

No, I don't take offense, Cus-cus. I'm just stating facts as I know them to be - not what I read in the Press.

I have worked in the private sector too, in between my 2 spells in public service, so I'm not quite as insular as you assume I am and I can call on experience in both sectors. Oh and, no, I won't "whinge" my way into the private sector at this stage. I'll be retiring in 10 months, when I will be 65, on that fantastic pension. :rolleyes:

I'm not going to keep on arguing because, apart from appreciating you will never be convinced I know more than you do about my own profession, I don't want to bore other Accyweb members to death. I am interested, however, to know what you do for a living and whether Mr. Blair been good or bad for your employment and prospects.

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

[quote=Margaret Pilkington;394130]Granny...is that in the past tense? You liked him, but now you don't...or do you mean that you liked him better than Maggie Thatcher?

I quote]
I mean he is ready for going ,i personaly liked the man, much better than "maggie thatcher the goddess "and no matter what he did ,he was in catch 22, dammed if he did and dammed if he diddent,, Lets see what the next victim does.:unsure8: :rolleyz8:

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

Thanks for clarifying that point GrannyC...I thought that was what you meant.
I still don't like or trust the bloke...but then I don't trust any of the others either.

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

I work for an insewerance company on such things as insuring civil servants for if they get taken to court!

Bad for prospects on the basis of (a) rampant bureaucracy creation which making it much harder to be competitive as we have to devote so much more time and resources to compliance and regulation and less to doing business
(b) tax regimes (eg introduction of dividend taxation regimen - see "pensions crises") making it even more difficult to provide a return to the owners of the company and meaning many of our competitors have legged it overseas taking the jobs and tax revenues with them.
(c) interest rates 40% higher than competing economies. Yes they are set by the BofE but this is on the basis of economic policy.
(d) About 60% or so of what I do is export, however interest rates / economic policy is completely stiffing us as this feeds through into distorted currency values meaning we become much less competitive and lose out. Interest rates / economic policy being great if your name is G. Brown and you want to borrow billions on the capital markets (ie Gordon is offering 5.25%, the Eurogroats are offering 3.75, so no surprise all the banks are massively into sterling) to spend on public services (Hah!) but pretty bad for businesses trying to grow and export, like mine!


However the short term flipside is growth of such things as
(i) PFI / PPP contracts (see G.Brown fiddling the books to hide debt")
and
(ii) massive increase in venture capital investment in UKPLC (see "introduction of dividend taxation regimen by G.Brown" )has resulted in more business for us,
and
(iii) Massive capital expenditure projects eg hospital in bburn
so in some ways good for prospects.

Difficult to call, overall some good, some bad, on a micro economic level nay too shabby, on a macro level disasterous.

tatty bye

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

This is the second post were you've spelled insurance as inseweranse. I can't decide if it is a genuine mistake, or a clever way of saying that insurance is connected with sewers.:D

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

I'm just intrigued about which Civil Servants have been taken to court and for what!

To sum up my feelings towards A C L Blair: A nice man; sincere (I think); could have been a great P M if he had been less open to persuasion; misguided.

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

Ok.. only joking.. Tony Blair may not be a nice bloke.. but is the next prime minister going to be any better? .. It will be Brown for the next 2 years but what next?.. David Cameron seems like a decent bloke to me but can he hold back the REAL TORIES?... and we all know what they are like.

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

How can the premiership be passed on to someone as if it was an hereditary position? Surely a party leader has to be elected? Everyone seems to be going along, meekly, with the propostion that Brown will succeed Blair. It goes against all the principles of democracy.

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

Gordon Brown was a good chanceller ,but i realy dont fancy him as our next prime minister .. but i cant think of anyone else either..:(

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

Im a little confused about this thread I always thought the majority ruled in a democracy, and the chairman made sure the wishes of the majority were administered. We do not live in a dictatorship do we?

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

Maggie was the prime minister when she got thrown out by her party.. John Major was installad

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

5.8 million people work for the state so just about anything.




And BTW I've worked in the state sector also, twice (teacher, postie....) so please stop the character slights and assumptions such as "I'm more insular than you" (neeeeeer!) as I can also call upon experience for both sectors. there's no need for it, it's childish and irrelevant.

I don't claim to know a lot about your profession. I claim to be relatively well informed on the subject of differences between state and non-state employment as it's directly relevant to my day to day activities.

Statistics are provided by the government (ONS / NAO ) and then spun by the press / government accordingly.


Blair? ******. However, less of a ****** than the rest of 'em is my conclusion. More or less similar to your last comment in fact..........

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

I'm not directing any "character slights" at you, Cuscus, I think you're a little over-sensitive. Now stop being so rude and aggressive, it's unnecessary.

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

awh.. changed my mind again.. Tony is a good bloke after all..top geezer!

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

i like tony too, not like rest of the useless twerps who have been PM!

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

don't make daft assumptions then or I'll punch yer lights out tosspot:D :wave8: :ban: :wan: :wan: :wan:

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

Cuscus, dear, it's you making the daft assumptions, particularly in your original post in this thread. You misquoted me by saying I implied you were more insular than I - you should re-read what I said - how could I possibly know if you were or not when I don't know you?

I've never been called a tosspot before. Could you give me a precise definition please? As to punching my lights out, I doubt you'd have to try very hard as I'm only 5'1, weigh less than 9 stone and it's well over 50 years since I last had a scrap with a member of the opposite sex. Would you allow me to stand on a box? ;)

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

Putting a silly smiley on the end of what is basically a threat, doesn't make it any better.

West Ender is twice the person you'll ever be.....and even though she doesen't work in it, I bet she can spell 'insurance'.

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

People like Keir Hardie, Arthur Henderson and Bessie Bradock would be rolling in their graves if they could see what Tony Blair has done to the Labour Party, wonder how much of the following he can recite .....

The Red Flag


The people's flag is deepest red,
It shrouded oft our martyr'd dead
And ere their limbs grew stiff and cold,
Their hearts' blood dyed its ev'ry fold.
Then raise the scarlet standard high,
Beneath its folds we'll live and die,
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
We'll keep the red flag flying here.
Look round, the Frenchman loves its blaze,
The sturdy German chants its praise,
In Moscow's vaults its hymns are sung,
Chicago swells the surging throng.
It waved above our infant might
When all ahead seemed dark as night;
It witnessed many a deed and vow,
We must not change its colour now.
It well recalls the triumphs past;
It gives the hope of peace at last:
The banner bright, the symbol plain,
Of human right and human gain.
It suits today the meek and base,
Whose minds are fixed on pelf and place,
To cringe before the rich man's frown
And haul the sacred emblem down.
With heads uncovered swear we all
To bear it onward till we fall.
Come dungeon dark or gallows grim,
This song shall be our parting hymn.

:Banane29: :Banane29:

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

He did what he thought was right to get the Tories out and Labour in so depending on your personal view he could be seen as good. Personally I think he has been there too long and has made the "quit deal" to avoid Maggie T's fate.

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

History alone can judge prime ministers they all make good and bad decisions, Margaret was no exception nor was Churchill, for a quitter Tony is taking an awfull long time to go. My only hope is he doesent make the mistake the aforementioned did and has to be pushed, as they say in life he has outlived his usefullness.

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

*Throws things at steeljack*

Re: Tony Blair..good bloke
 

I much prefer belting out the lyrics to the Internationale...though I refuse to sing it in it's original French.:D

The Internationale Arise ye workers from your slumbers
Arise ye prisoners of want
For reason in revolt now thunders
And at last ends the age of cant.
Away with all your superstitions
Servile masses arise, arise
We'll change henceforth the old tradition
And spurn the dust to win the prize.

So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.

No more deluded by reaction
On tyrants only we'll make war
The soldiers too will take strike action
They'll break ranks and fight no more
And if those cannibals keep trying
To sacrifice us to their pride
They soon shall hear the bullets flying
We'll shoot the generals on our own side.

No saviour from on high delivers
No faith have we in prince or peer
Our own right hand the chains must shiver
Chains of hatred, greed and fear
E'er the thieves will out with their booty
And give to all a happier lot.
Each at the forge must do their duty
And we'll strike while the iron is hot.