Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

According to a front page article in one of todays newspapers, motorists who are caught speeding and go to court to challenge their fines will be penalised by having a surcharge of £15 added to their fine.
This money is to fund counsellors for victims of domestic violence and rape. Somehow, I don't get the connection between motorists and victims of violent crime.
Shouldn't it be the perpetrators of the violent crime who pay for the counsellors......not the motorist?

For motorist, read Cash Cow.

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

Saw a lot of victims in my career, and suffered myself -(briefly thank goodness). If it ever happened to you you would be just thankful help is available and not care who pays. The actual offenders are usualy low earners with a low mentality and end up in prison - so wouldnt/couldnt pay.
If money can't be raised from general taxation I suppose the 'affluent' motorists will provide (just the ones who break rules)

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

I don't mind this so much. I just hope the money goes directly to supporting the victims and not wasted on writing reports and paying for non combatant advisors.

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

Unfortunately although I agree that someone should pay to help the victims of violence, I cannot see why if, the perpetrators of these acts cannot be made to pay the responsibility should be thrown onto the motorist.

If the powers that be are unable to make those responsible pay surely they are causing a miscarriage of justice?
Maybe the motorist is guilty of speeding, but that does not make him/her guilty of violence so he/she is being punished for a crime they did not commit which has got to be wrong in the eyes of any fair and just society?
:confused:

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

Would you prefer an income tax rise, or a council tax rise, or it to be paid by a 'boy racer'?

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

No, I would prefer a society where this (violence), doesn't happen.
Being a member of the, 'let the punishment fit the crime brigade', I am all for justice being given out in it's correct proportions, if after getting a speeding fine the person goes home and beats up their spouse then they should be hit with the full weight of the law, but if the motorists are innocent of violent crime then they should not be punished for the crimes committed by others.

:o

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

Perhaps a solution would be a % of ALL fines to be dedicated towards helping ALL victims, whatever the crime was (violent or otherwise)

A speeding motorist is a potential killer and a £60 fine taught me not to break 'the rules'

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

It taught me twice Margaret. I'm not against this idea but I also feel that Less's point is valid. If we punished offenders in the first place maybe we wouldn't have such a problem. If a man got five years, and I mean five years maybe he'd be less of a bully when he got out.

But the point of this is support for the victims and it must be paid for from somewhere.

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

Any motorist is a potential killer, that is one of the reasons all legal drivers have to have insurance.

If my house was robbed, by some low life thief, I would not expect a different thief that stole thousands of pounds from the company he worked for to have his sentence extended because the law can't afford to prosecute the thief that stole from me.

Yes, the motorist that is fined is guilty of speeding and he broke the law, (I have done this myself), but he has not committed any other crime so why should he be punished for other peoples misdemeanour's?

Again I will repeat, I would love to live a society where violence doesn't happen, but I also want to live in a society where the punishment is fair, if the motorist is not guilty of someone else's crime then he should not be punished for it.
:hititbana

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

Maybe hefty fining the perpretrators that submit the violence should pay towards costs of domestic violence & enforce it - men & women!! Having been once a victim myself my perpretrator got a fine & never paid it cos the loophole was he didnt have to having spent time in prison for a simular but seperate to the fined offense & the courts actually dropped the fine saying he paid in prison - funny that cos i saw nothing of it as it was me he was to pay it too!!!!

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

I was suggesting a % levy on all fines, not extension of prison sentences.

Some perpetrators of lesser crime think that they have not made anyone suffer -ie 'victimless crime' - a false assumption

Petty theft and burglary causes mental anguish.(had that too)

A motorist speeding on an empty urban road in the dead of night disturbs sleep of residents, and what if the odd one of 2 were agonisingly ill or dying - not nice is it?

When you get down to basics crime is crime and in all its forms it offends and spoils the quality of life for others.

To specify a crime which particularly offends me - dog fouling - sounds very petty doesnt it. The people who dont pick up thier dog's s**t dont think of themselves as criminals. Children can go blind if the dog isnt wormed frequently, and I physically retch at the sight of the stuff (I suppose I suffer 'mildly') but do they realise that there is very little crime which is 'victimless'.

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

I don't see all speeders as boy racers......and I think it is wrong to see motorists as a group of people that it is OK to use to raise money from.

I'm not saying that we should not provide cousellors for those unfortunate people who have suffered at the hands of violent criminals. Would it not be better to seize the assets of these people to pay for their victims to get help?

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

And in answer to your question - Yes, I would care if a motorist was surcharged because apart from speeding, he/she has committed no other crime. Violent offenders should be made to take responsibility for their actions.

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

To get back to your original 'victims' -domestic violence (sorry I strayed off topic a bit) -
As a Dhss visiting officer specialising in 'newly separated women' for many years, I can only say that in the horrendously numerous cases of domestic violence I encountered, the majority of cases resulted in no help, support or compensation for the victim.
The offenders had need of counselling too (alcoholism, anger management)
and more often than not had no assets to seize.

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

bloody pathetic just another way of screwing money out of the motorist and they use rape victims ,battered wifes etc to hide behind

it shouldnt need money from speeding fines to help people teh money shoudl already be there

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

Yes the money should already be there but it isn't. Society needs to pay for it somehow. There are children who grow up in a violent domestic situation who consider such violence to be normal, and they go on to repeat the violence from generation to generation.
So to have a better society we need to throw money at the problem as soon as we can -counselling for both parties - need to re-educate them to be civilised members of society.
As 'great apes' we have potential for violence and need educating to control it

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

None of the monies levied in this way will go to the victims as compensation....... just to provide counsellors.

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

If alcohol is a trigger for domestic violence then perhaps the levy should be directed towards drinkers.

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

So much for equal justice for all , so now it seems if you want plead not guilty and challenge the system (your God given right, not to mention Magna Carta etc.) you get penalized for it by a surcharge on top of the legal punishment .
If you want to throw more money down social rat-holes and create more jobs for civil servants then use monies taken from the 'regular pot' but dont punish someone twice (original fine + surcharge) :confused: :confused: :confused:

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

Initially this surcharge will only be applied if you go to court and challenge the charge, but eventually all motoring offences will have this charge levied.

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

I heard about this on the radio on my way home from work this morning, they had some guy on the show but I can't remember who it was, think it was someone from RAC, during the conversation they said they originally planned to charge by a % of your fine but they say it would be too complicated for their system so just called it £15 to everyone

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

Yes, K.S.H.......that WAS the original plan, but the authorities found that it would be too difficult to administer.

Something else that may have a bearing on this is the division of the Home office into two separate entities. Lord Falconer is looking at softer sentencing. So judges may be directed to award non-custodial sentences for some crimes......and many custodial sentences will be shorter.
What kind of message does this send to the real criminals?
Yet motorists will be criminalised for petty infringements.

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

The word 'injustice' springs to mind.

Maybe those who are levied of this charge would be as well not to pay it....and do time instead....except the courts would probably send the bailiffs in. :(

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

Just don't get caught, drive at night with no lights on so they don't see you :rolleyes:

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

Why should honest folk pay yet anothere stealth tax, if this govertment stopped 1 % of the money they keep giving out to bleeding heart causes
around the world there would be plenty to go a round,
I know what happends in domestic violence cases .Ive seen the state of my sister after her bloke as used her as a punch bag. the trouble in her case and i so pose at lot of others is they let the scum bags back
short of taking these blokes some were nice an quite and making them dig a nice deep hole befor rollin um in theres not much else i can think of:mad:

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

Simple way out is .. don't go over the speed limit = no fine.. therefore no moaning about how you fine is used!

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

How simplistic a solution, however this is the real world, people do speed and then they face the consequences that does not mean it is right that they should pay for something they are not guilty of.
:mad:

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

What I would like to know is where I could obtain a little 'speed', as the demon drink has entered my tender life, and when the grey dark grey dawn of tomorrow arrives I fear I will need a 'quick' lift.;)

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

The "real world" ?.In the real world we all pay tax for things we are not guilty of.. and that's not right is it? ..but I'm surprised by your attitude Less.. I had you sussed as a hard line sort of "zero tolorance" bod... anyone who breaks the law should be "banged up".. seems to me you draw a line between motorists who speed and cause deaths and those who park on Blackburn Road eh!

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

I am zero tolerance, I do believe the criminal, be he/she a motorist,violent attacker or a thief, should get the correct punishment.

Notice the correct punishment, adding a little extra to someones punishment by making them pay extra for a crime they have not been prosecuted for is an injustice.

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

As I said before it is not justice.......and if we accept this, then where will it end?

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

i thought you had to be guilty of a crime to be charged what crap is this

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

The report in the paper is a little ambiguous davo .. states at first 'motorist fined in court', then goes on to say '£15 levy will be imposed on anyone facing a fine', then back to 'it will only apply to offenders who are fined in court'. :confused:

There is nothing unclear, however, about the plan to eventually add it of all on-the-spot fines, including speeding and use of mobile phones whilst driving.

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

Katex, in the paper that I read, it stated quite categorically that this levy would be applied to all on the spot fines eventually.

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

what happens if you r a bachelor who as never had a partner .

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

Yes, that's what I said in my last sentence Margaret, that there was nothing unclear about this (I think ?) :D Meant to anyhow.

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

It doesn't matter davo69........it doesn't relate to anything you've done in relation to a partnership.....only to the fact that you have contravened traffic laws.

Why can't counsellors be funded from the lottery?

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

sorry Katex.....must have misread your post. :)

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

sentence me for murder when i pinch a sandwich from a shop it is totaly rong goverment should give the support needed you cant go charging people for other persons

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

In relation to the punishment fitting the crime......well' it doesn't......does it?

Thieves, and vandals are treated by the courts as victims....and the victims of the crimes.....they get sweet B.A. Not even the satisfaction of seeing the perpetrators serving a reasonable sentence.

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

Would think lots of money from the lottery going into this cause already, however, 'tis a strange one though, isn't it?

Can understand the money being used to fund support workers and not direct to victims, as would be difficult to manage and distribute fairly, and probably the expense of this would out-do the money 'contributed'.

Could understand it more it the money was being used to support victims of car crimes, we could relate to that one.

Re: Speeding Fines to Fund Domestic Violence Counsellors.
 

What it boils down to is another stealth tax.