Accrington Pal's
 

What a shame that the Church of England has decided to close in stead of repair not just a place of worship but a church and chapal dedicated to the men of ACCRINGTON who gave everything....i for one as a councial tax payer of Hyndburn think in stead of hyndburn councial thinking of spending thousands of pounds on a name change,why not put the money to better use!! and pay for the rewiring repairs and buy the church for ACCRINGTON and let the pals have there home for ever.:)

Re: Accrington Pal's
 

A lot of churches round here are in financial difficulty and a couple have already closed.This is due to falling numbers in the congregation,the older people dying and not enough younger people coming to replace them.The money they get in the weekly collections isn't enough and they are struggling.The church we are talking about is St John's in Accrington,isn't it? Do you attend regularly?The trouble is that some people do not want to go to church on a Sunday and make weekly donations but they still expect the church to be there for their weddings,christenings etc.Maybe if more people held St John's in such high regard and attended regularly it would not have had to close.It is a real shame that it's going to close but it's down to the people of each individual parish to support their church all year round to avoid their church suffering a similar fate.

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I agree that we should have a memorial to the pals in Accrington.

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Because the Council can't look after what they have already. Have you been in Ossy Civic Theatre recently? What about the many parks that are neglected by the Council? Many people including yourself complain about the state of the town centre and you want them to take on another building they would not look after.





Reading that back it looks like I am having a go at you Willow, I most certainly am not, sorry if you felt that I was.

Re: Accrington Pal's
 

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As Chairman of the Friends of Rhydding's Park, surely you're not disillusioned with the appalling state of the parks, and the council's inability to maintain them?

(I do so hope you are regretting putting your little 'X' next to Peter's name instead of Gayle's.):D

It is sad when any church faces closure.

We must be a nation of heathens, compared with a hundred years ago.

I'd support any bid to retain church buildings, even if it was turned into a commercial concern. I can think of three demolished churches in Oswaldtwistle alone, and that's sad.

Re: Accrington Pal's
 

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How sad. I attended St. John's regularly in my youth. My great-grandparents were married there. My grandfather, an Army medic, was attached to the Pals and accompanied them to Egypt and the Western Front. The chapel, if nothing else, ought to be preserved. Is anyone going to start a fund for this? How much money is needed?

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i too went to st johns as a young un (we may have been at same time bullseye)think it is very sad if it bites the dust, agree though with others, it should be saved.:(

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it should be saved.:([/quote] lets hope that someone from Hyndburns co are reading our views and a rescue package can be put together:):)

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interesting to read the comments about St Johns...my parents married in the church, I was a member of cubs/scouts/venture scouts... once a month at church parade it was packed... how the mighty have fallen... was reading an article earlier in the week that claimed the congrigations in the local (the whole of Lancashire) R.C. churches are increasing by the week.. mainly due to the influx of easten european workers..... pitty the church of England hasn't got the same facility.... :confused:

Re: Accrington Pal's
 

I lived in that area for over twenty three years .... never once did anyone from the church come calling: They were always re-building the roof, I personally did not find it a welcoming church:

In fact the only time we got to meet the vicar, was when our house was being done up and we put a sign in the window: for a joke

saying kebab and curry take away opening soon.... he must have had people asking ,then he came to see what was going on:

Maybe they could put the Pals memorial at St James in the town centre:

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wasn,t aware that vicars called around, priests yeh, especially if ya had ducked mass.;) think the reason the Pals are associated with the church was summat todo with Mr Collinson,who was a teacher at the school, seem to remember vagely he had a lot todo with the memory of the Pals?

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Not at all. The Area Council, Chaired by Cllr Britcliffe have been very helpfull and generous to the Park. I could write press releases for HBC to the Observer with statements like that. :rolleyes:

If Gayle had become Councillor for St. Andrews, would she have been more or less useful to the Park than she is now, with her role as secretary of the friends?

Also if Peter had been kicked out by Gayle, would the new leader of the Council (Graham Jones in all probability), have been as interested in a park in Ossy as Peter currently is?

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[quote=cashman;434747]wasn,t aware that vicars called around,,,,,

Well maybe they should that way they would know who lived in their Parish... and maybe just maybe get more people in the church... the only thing that cuhrch yard was used was drunks and yobs that sat there until all hours in the morning....thus keeping me awake:

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We keep getting leaflets and things from 'our' vicar as we are geographically in his parish. The only problem with that is we are not C of E and I have never set foot in his church in my life. I think the girls may have been there once on a school trip. :D

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I don't think my one vote is that powerful. We each vote for someone based on our own reasons, that was partly my reason. I have stated the other several times on here already.

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But yours could have been the deciding vote!!! :eek:

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I do believe that only 7% of the pop. in UK attend church. It seems a little ironic that people today are all gung ho for "support the troops," (And I don't see anything wrong with this. Kingston is a garrison town, always has been and there is great support for the Canadian battle group in Afghanistan.) and yet they forget what their fathers, grandfathers and great grandfathers did. So what about supporting the memory of the Pals? What they did should not be consigned to the dustbin of history because all the vets are dead.

Saw a bumper sticker the other day: "If you are not prepared to stand behind the troops, feel free to stand in front of them." How many of us alive to day would have been brave enough to stand not in front of the Pals, but with them, 91 years ago on July 1?

Maybe they could build a separate memorial. There is a nice one at Serre where the Pals attacked in 1916. Made out of NORIs.

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now I'm confused , which is St. Johns Church ? I allways thought the memorial was in the Church near to the library (St James ? ) tried google earth and it gives me St Johns on St Huberts st, in Gt. Harwood

:confused::confused:
thx

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Re: Accrington Pal's
 

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thanks for the link Willow , I have the "Pals" book , the one by William Turner ( got it at Wardleworths on Little Blackburn rd years ago ). just confused about the actual location in Accrington of St Johns Church .

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Re: Accrington Pal's
 

ok , got it now, up near where Emerson and Renwicks used to be and the Blockade pub
thx

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I suspect most of that seven percent are either Catholic or happy clappy, and that only a small percentage are C of E.

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steeljack, st johns church has Dowry st, one side, Maudsley st, the other, Addison street runs along the bottom wall, forget the street at the top which ran past the infants school, which adjoined the church.its a fair way from the blockade mate,nearest pub is the Great Eastern, hope that helps.;)

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:D Well I did say Dowry Street. Is Arago Street the other one?

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You are starting to sound like a Canadian .... giving directions using pubs and bars as landmarks ... or maybe we inherited it from the old country. Much better than using churches as landmarks. "St. Mary's ... where is that?" "Oh, just down the street from Ben's Pub, on the right". "Ah, ok.":D

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I think teh term you were looking for is 'progressive' :D oh and soem CofE would be deemed 'happy clappy' by your terms.

St Johns in Baxenden use LCD projectors instead of hymn books, use video clips from blockbuster films during sermons, have drums, keyboards, giutars and singers at teh front and don't often sing traditional hymns

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Mr. Collinson. Now there's a blast from the past! He was one of my teachers. Packed away somewhere in this house, I have group photos of my time at St. John's and I know he's in one of those. Will have to find them and take a little trip down memory lane.

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Evangelical, or charismatic, with a bit of happy clapping, would have been more accurate.

No offence meant...to any clappers.:D

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miss thurman, miss plaice,mr collinson, all taught me, be strange if were on the same group photo.:D oh forgot miss riley,lol

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When I attended, it was Mrs. Hargreaves, Miss Wilkinson, Mrs. Thurman, Mr. Collinson and Mr. Plaice. Over the weekend, I found group photos for the classes of Miss Wilkinson, Mrs. Thurman and Mr. Collinson.

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Its a real shame all the churches are being knocked down and replaced with offices and supermarkets or being sold to convert to houses :(

Thankfully my church has what I call a decent sized congregation so I dont think it will be proposed to shut it down.

I dont get time to go like I used to at school, I used to sing in the choirs. I would hate it if my church got knocked down just to build a shop or something there.

As already said though the main problem is with church attendance figures and its not just happening in accy, its happening all over the country. The best thing to do about it is to attend a church regularly, otherwise all they'll do is keep knocking them down.

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But there is an unsettling irony in this. The reason that people are not going to church is that they no longer believe. And one of the major reasons for this death of belief is the carnage of WW1. It is no accident that the growth of existentialism roughly coincides with the war. The major rhetorical question on the minds of the people who lived thro' it goes something like "how can one believe in the existence of a benevolent god, when one has seen hell run unchecked on earth?" One Job we can accept, but not tens of millions. And what happens twenty years after the war to end all wars? Real evil, with a disarmingly silly tache, again runs amok.

But the irony is that the church which contains the memorial to the Pals may become a casualty of the war in which the Pals fought so bravely.

Re: Accrington Pal's
 

Re: Accrington Pal's
 

I vaguely remember a piece of doggrell from WW1, it goes something like:

Gott straffe England,

God save the King,

God do this, God do that,

God do everything.

Good God, said God,

I've got my work cut out.

Re: Accrington Pal's
 

:)nice to know that so many friends and strangers can come to gether just like the pals's of long a go:):):):)

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Can I just add that I agree with Peter Britcliffe's comments (not often you see those words on here:))in this week's Observer when he said that it would not be appropriate to bail St John's out as there will be other churches in need of similar help in the future and it would not be possible to give money to them all.It really is down to the Church of England and the people of the parish.I hope they find a good home for the Pals chapel though,maybe St James in Accy centre would be a good place for it.

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Isnt this a bit of a 'get out of jail free' card believers use to explain why their God has seen fit not to interfere with his creations continuing efforts to destroy each other. As Mr Pacino said God is an absentee landlord at best.

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Just a bit unfortunate that he had recently said that he would do anything in his power to help the church though! :)

Actually I agree that if you help one you would have to help them all.

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The Creator has endowed us with free will. Use it wisely.

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But as a species we dont use it wisely so doesn't s/he have some responsibilities as 'creator' to step in and put things right. It must at the very least wind him/her up a bit.

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St Johns Church requires a lot more work than just a rewiring job.
There is other work required to the tune of a couple of hunrded 1000.
The electrical problem was the last straw.

Walter.

Re: Accrington Pal's
 

Well,in light of that revelation it looks like it is beyond Peter Britcliffe's power to assist them at St John's.:)

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After re-reading this thread I think I've come to the conclusion that all the memorabila should go into a local museum (maybe a room at Howarth art gallery could be found), I doubt any local members of this group who have personal links to this memorial (Great-grandfathers etc) would like to see it broken up.
But time moves on , lets face it the number of folks who remember and attend VE /VJ day celebrations from WW2, are a dwindling number , and I know the numbers who remember the Armistice of the Great War are even fewer.
Being a 'baby boomer' (born in 1948) I remember the old guys (Grandads etc.) who were gassed in the trenchs and came home (many of whom lived on a pittance of a pension) and we went out in our cub and scout uniforms to honour these and the dead of WW2 every Sunday nearest to November 11th. but the thing is , to expect a modern day 16/17/18 year old (kids born in 1990) to honour these old guys is like expecting us born after WW2 to go back and remember those born in the 1850s and who fought in the Ashanti or Nagaland wars ..........its ancient history to us and todays youth.
Maybe if the original "sign-up" center in downtown Accrington is still standing it maybe it could be converted to an "Alamo" type tourist attraction and the memorabila moved there.
Actually one place springs to mind , if anyone was interested developing a turn of the century (1900) historical center the Church warehouse/wharf would be the ideal pace
just my ramblings ... thanks

seems like an ideal project for "go-get-a-grant" Gayle

Re: Accrington Pal's
 

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:) interesting letter in this weeks Observer 5/07/2007:)

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There's a letter from the Churchwarden of the said church, saying that the cost of repairs would be nearer to £250,000, rather than the reported £20,000, and that's why they took the decision to close.

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Catweazle hasn't yet decided how many more outfits he needs this year.:D

http://www.stpaulsmaidstone.org/uplo...6c10fdb030.jpg

Re: Accrington Pal's
 

The question of the Pals Chapel cropped up again on Monday. The people of Accrington have donated near £60,000 towards the restoration of the Pals Chapel.
The next job was to get monies from either English Heritage or the Lottery Fund.
I've since been told that no work has been done, although it was supposed to be opening soon.
AND there is no longer £60,000 in the pot.

So where is the money, whats been happening ?

Retlaw.

Re: Accrington Pal's
 

Maybe it was in an Icelandic bank

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I don't think they would have used that bank, but somebody must have control of that money.

Who is the treasurer. ? Surely one of the friends of St John's visits Accy Web. Why has'nt Accy Observer done any follow ups, they showed the fund thermometer week by week. Nothing

Retlaw.

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I'm sure the money is good hands Retlaw, however, good point about the Observer ... maybe our new Hyndburn Independent would like to pick up the story ?

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Is there no reference to trustees of the fund?
Contact the British Legion for the answers you require.
You probably could have got the answer from the BBC journalist who offered to interview you?...who knows

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The BBC only knew the Pals Chapel existed they did'nt even know it was closed, or where it was, they did inteview one member of the church committee, but it was not inside, it was outside on the street.

The British Legion knows nowt, look at the mess they made of the names for the Oswaldtwistle Memorial.

Retlaw

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Send a letter to the Editor's page in the Observer Retlaw .. that'll bring 'em out of the woodwork.

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That's when we had an Observer edited by a man who knew what was happening locally, not in Rawtenstall, and there was a local office where you could direct your questions and most likely have them answered by a reporter on site

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Well, speak of the devil Retlaw (better not 'tis about a church :D) report in Observer that St. Johns have received a grant of £39,000 from the English Heritage which will go to the repairing of the roof and electrical work; balance to go to renovating areas the church. They are quoting the original money raised as £50,000 by the way.

They are planning to re-open the church by Christmas, work to begin end of the summer. The spokesman for the church is the church warden Amdy Shepherd.

Can't do link ... not up yet.