Fly The Flag
 

According to news reports today the Union Flag can be flown in the UK only on 15 specific days.

Why?

What are we ashamed of?

All British government buildings should fly the flag all the time and even individual citizens should be able to fly the flag outside their homes if they want to.

Some interesting snippets.
If the Union Flag is flown upside-down it is seen as a distress signal. But it can also be interpreted as an insult to the crown.

Although at one time the Union Jack was only called thus when flown from the jackstaff (a mast at the bows of a ship) of a British warship the Union Flag flown anywhere can be called the Union Jack.

MOTORISTS could face a £2,500 fine or three penalty points on their licence if they fly the flag of St George in support of the English sports team.

If anyone wants to know how to draw the Union Flag correctly it tells you here:
http://www.jdawiseman.com/papers/union-jack/union-jack.html

With some interesting facts here:
http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/geography/unionjack.html

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Go for it Jim

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Time is right for full devolution of Scotland, Wales and Ulster so there needn't be a Union Jack anymore, ....... and while they're at it they can draw the scottish border at Birmingham :D

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Any likelihood of those 15 days beig EID ? Thought not :D:D

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Interesting ... the Union Jack flies all the time from Fort Henry, and on many of our public buildings (but not the bogs). Also the Union Jack is part of the flag of the Province of Ontario. It is flown at Rideau Hall which is the residence of the Govenor General in Ottawa, at Canadian Forces Base Kingston, at the barracks of The Princess of Wales Own Regiment etc. It seems like we fly it more than you guys do. And today, America's birthday, the Stars and Stripes are flying from many buildings in Kingston. And the maple leaf is everywhere, in windows, on flagpoles in gardens, on cars, boats, motorcycles, ATVs, kids' bicycles. I fly both the Union Jack and the Maple Leaf at my home. I'm proud of where I was born and raised, and proud of the country I call home. And no s.o.b. in government is going to tell me when and where I can fly my flags.

Re: Fly The Flag
 

With us in it?:eek:

No thanks.:D

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Only problem is, Rosebud and Gayle will start fretting that we might be BNP supporters!

Re: Fly The Flag
 

travelled extensively around the southern states of the old USA, saw loads of flags flying from houses etc, we thought it was great, to be proud of yer country, WHAT THE HELLS WRONG WITH IT HERE?:(

Re: Fly The Flag
 

That is absolutely awful (IMO). How dare "they" deny anyone the right to fly their national flag. All the sacrifices made fighting and dying under a nations flag. Gosh, that really really bothers me for you!:(

What the heck would anyone be thinking to make that a policy or even a bloody recommendation.

Do you guys not put the flag out on the graves of soldiers throughout the year? Will this also be denied! What if, in protest, you start flying the old Russian flag or the flag of Pol Pot!

I'm very sad for you!

Brian

Re: Fly The Flag
 

well its really brassing me off n i aint got a flag! theres a principal involved here in my reckoning.:mad:

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Who makes the rules up ?

Seems GB wants us to fly the flag from public buildings which should surely be the go ahead to do it.

STUFFY Scotland Yard REFUSED to fly the Union Flag yesterday — despite an appeal by the PM.

The Sun backed Gordon Brown when he said the flag should be hoisted on public buildings in defiance of terrorism and to promote “Britishness”.

But Britain’s biggest police force hid behind a government directive which specifies official days on which the Union Flag can be flown. It WAS flying outside other police HQs. A Metropolitan Police spokesman said: “Guidance on the appropriate dates for flying of the Union Flag is issued by the Department of Culture, Media and Sport.
“We are aware of the proposals made by the Prime Minister. We would expect to be advised of any changes in the protocol by the DCMS and act accordingly.”
The DCMS revealed last night that guidelines for flying the flag may be CHANGED.
A spokesman said: “We now list 18 days on which the flag should be flown — but this may well change and we could soon see the Union Flag flying above all public buildings for 365 days throughout the year.”
The flag flew at Greater Manchester Police HQ. A spokesman said: “We fly the Union Flag and our own flag. They are taken down at night in case of vandalism or bad weather.”
Steve Pound, Labour MP for Ealing North, said: “More attention is needed to the Department of Common Sense.”
Anti-PC campaigner John Midgley said: “We should be proud of our national flag and not let political correctness get in the way.”

Re: Fly The Flag
 

“we could soon see the Union Flag flying above all public buildings for 365 days throughout the year.”


Not before time! I am definitely going to redo my sigtag! :D

Re: Fly The Flag
 

And while we're at it, getting those flags ready to fly .... don't forget the National Anthem ... if you are anywhere where it is played ... sports events etc. ... don't stand and mumble, looking embarrassed ... belt it out. "O Canada" may not have the most inspiring lyrics in the world, but it's our anthem (as is God Save the Queen) and we sing it out loud. Like when we won the world hockey championship (AGAIN) this year, eh.

Re: Fly The Flag
 

The flag of St. George was flying merrily from the flagpole outside of the Town Hall on Tuesday.

No known sporting occasion, or nationalist rally was evident.;)

Re: Fly The Flag
 

No I won't and you know full well that wasn't my point. If everyone was flying the flag (as they do during sporting events) there is no question, however, when there are a few stray flags flying outside people's houses that does often give the impression that it's BNP.

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Sadly full devolution would be bad for all concerned. As for the Scottish border being at Birmingham makes me think the north of England has more in common with Scotland than the south. Why cant we just divorce the area south of Birmingham and let it set its self up as it wants and the rest of us can carry on as we are. Besides some think England is only comprised of the south anyway so let them go it alone. :D

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Re: Fly The Flag
 

So very true but sadly they wish they did as Britain had power in those days and was mighty enough not to be pushed around (though the got a black eye or two). The medals and titles are to boost the ego of some and also let others dream of what they missed. Personally I would get rid of them as we as a modern country and society dont need them. They are a gimmic at the end of the day, but would keep Owd Lizzie as she has her uses.

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Gayle, my comment was tongue-in-cheek (sorry, I should have put a :) there!). However, I agree with Jambutty's point, political and other organisations shouldn't be able to use...or misuse...our national flag.

Re: Fly The Flag
 

agree about the impression given gayle, but its THAT that wants sorting, people should be able to fly the national flag at will (NON POLITICAL)

Re: Fly The Flag
 

I don't think that it matters what it sounds like (altho' twinkle twinkle little star would not quite fit). And if anthems were not slow and simple, most would not be able to follow them. Half of ours is in French, and even the cowboys in Alberta have no trouble with that.:) The idea that anthems should reflect current values, and not only that, but all shades of opinion from the BNP, which I assume is the current British version of the NSDAP, is a little silly. It is the idea of the anthem that is important. It reflects not the current and fluctuating attitudes, but enduring -albeit under siege - values and ideals, and the many things in history that one can be proud of.

Have to admit that I do find the awards a little anachronistic. But not having an Empire is a good idea. Now if we could only convince GWB of that ... but that is another story.:rolleyes:

Re: Fly The Flag
 

So are we saying I am not allowed to fly a Union Jack or a St Georges Cross outside my house?

Or if I did I would be classed as a member of BNP or worse?

Re: Fly The Flag
 

yes MR D i think some dipsticks would say that.;)

Re: Fly The Flag
 

I do understand that the far right stole the flag in the 70s, and I can see why people of my generation have a difficulty differentiating between patriotism and nationalism(in it's worst case).

However this has not stopped numerous organisations and bands trying to reclaim the flag which is something I applaud.

I personally do prefer the Flag of St George rather than the Union Flag but this has more to with aesthetics than politics.

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Theres a St Georges flag flying outside the church at Rising Bridge which is now a private house. Its been flying there for a couple of months.

Re: Fly The Flag
 

We noticed one flyng from a church as your'e going in to Blackburn.

We also noticed a Hyndburn road sweeper vehicle flying a scottish flag. Bet he would be sacked if it was a St George flag or Union Jack :rolleyes:

Re: Fly The Flag
 

We should be able to fly our flag with pride. Like these people:

The Sun Online - News: We're all proud to fly the flag

Don't Americans fly their flags with pride outside most homes and government buildings (and rightly so!!)

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Re: Fly The Flag
 

it probably has more relavance to football fans.;)

Re: Fly The Flag
 

I thought they sang "You'll never walk alone." ;)

Re: Fly The Flag
 

thats scousers, God save our Team is most others.:D

Re: Fly The Flag
 

You see. There you go. I've just proved I'm totally football ignorant. :D

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Patriotism and nationalism?

Same thing isn’t it? According to my dictionary it is.

Re: Fly The Flag
 

If we are to have a new national anthem it should be a rousing march.

Colonel Bogey springs to mind then we can have alternate words when we want to show our displeasure at the way the country is being governed.

Much like the Yanks have with the Stars And Stripes Forever.
Be kind to your web-footed friends,
For a duck may be somebody's mother,
Be kind to your friends in the swamp
Where the weather is always damp,
You may think that this is the end.
Well, it is!

Re: Fly The Flag
 

but see as an asian thats the problem. for far too long have good folk bowed down and backed down to the bnp, c18 and so forth, in the hope that if they do fly the flag they'll get viewed as racists. but if every other house in uk flew the flag b it st george or the welsh dragon or the union jack then your setting a precedant. your saying i'm british and eventually that mentality will change. just like it took 10 yrs for the bnp to claim the flag it may take 10 more yrs to claim it back. i really enjoy the fact that when i finish work and i pop over to a fried chicken shop owned by asians that it has an england/union jack flag. b it for financial or other reasons it feels good. a few years ago i went up to a meet-up with other users of an asian website - it was glorious weather and i went with my england shirt. and i was surpised that in a group of about 50 lads 30 of them decided to wear england shirts too!

the thing is wiht the asian community there's alot more england/british flag flying-wannabe's than they'd like to admit to. but there needs to be that step, that door to be opened where it becomes common enough to have pride in the flag by not just the bnp but the good folk of the uk. then it'll come by. when i go to the JJB soccerdome you see enough guys wearin gerrard/rooney/beckham england tops and in 10 yrs time if there is that change taking place then why wont they when they're married, kids, have their own home fly the flag too?

growing up in the 80's i used to hate the sight of the union jack in shops, cars and on jackets etc. i would automatically associate them with being racists and BNP. now obviously that association for me is long over and done with. but there's still people who have that association and it wont be broken until the sight is common for them to realise its not the flag its the people flyin the flag that matter and those people are not hte right wing kind.

this whole protocol reminds me of when diana died and the royals thought that htey have to go by the rules and eventually realised thru much persuation that the rules have changed, unofficially and thats what they should follow. there should ALWAYS be a union jack outside every town hall up and down the country. there should be one outside every police station, hospital, major landmark, park, govt building and any other place.

i'm jealous when i went to the usa and they had usa flags all over. its not that the americans are more patriotic to their country than the brits - its just that they can show it and so should we.

Re: Fly The Flag
 

we fly St. George flag all year round not because we are members of BNP but because we are English

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Great post Mani.

Karma on it's way.

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Excellent post Mani, karma on its way.

I think you're right - what happened was that the councils and government and official bodies got scared that they were offending Asians and others by flying the national flag, so they stopped flying it. This in turn meant that the only people who did fly it were the ones who couldn't care less about offending other people.

However, the people who were thought to be offended by it weren't and so we now have the position that it is they who are making the effort to prove that they weren't offended in the first place.

Hope all that makes sense.

The way to solve the problem, is as you say, get all the official buildings to start flying the flag and the rest will follow. If the town halls, police stations, public places all had flags flying, like they do in America and other countries, there wouldn't be this perceived image of it.

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Great post, Mani. Karma duly despatched.

It seems Gordon Brown thinks the same!

Gordon Brown flies Union flag all year long | Uk News | News | Telegraph

Re: Fly The Flag
 

So Wynonie, all that stick that you and Garinda gave me the other night - seems I'm not alone in the perception that the flag has been hijacked by extremists.

This direct quote from the article -

But while in other countries, such as France and the United States, the national flag is regarded as a source of pride, in recent years the Union flag has all too often become the preserve of political extremists, a symbol of discord rather than harmony," said the department.


I will expect an apology, forthwith!

Re: Fly The Flag
 

OK, Gayle, fair point. sorry. :)

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Someones reading your thoughts Willow.

BBC NEWS | Politics | Brown lifts ban on national flag

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Here you are WillowTheWhisp. Does this help?

Nice one Gordon.

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Let's hope this is the start of something positive. :) That bit about multiple patriotism probably applies to me. It isn't a problem unless the countries concerned should happen to go to war. :D

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Just because someone else was wrong in their assumptions, besides yourself, doesn't make you right.:p

Therefore no public appology...you'll have to make do with the karma appology, sent last weekend.:D

Re: Fly The Flag
 

I am a flag flyer of the first order. Old Glory 365 days a year. Have two additional flagpoles. On one, I periodically fly the Union Jack. From the other a State flag.

A few years ago, a British friend told me that it was necessary to obtain permission in order to run the Union Jack up a flagpole over there. I was shocked. Any such restriction would never "fly" here.

Re: Fly The Flag
 

From the Cambridge dictionary
nationalism Show phonetics
noun [U]
1 the desire for and the attempt to achieve political independence for your country or nation

2 a great or too great love of your own country:

patriotism Show phonetics
noun [U]
when you love your country and are proud of it.

I use the emphasis on TOO GREAT LOVE meaning the way the extreme right viewpoint.

BTW Mani, great post.

Re: Fly The Flag
 

nice one bullseye, thats summat we agree on.;)

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Yes our flag should fly high its a thing that show,s we are grate to be what we are and who we are and we should be glad to be as well.

Re: Fly The Flag
 

I've just ordered one on eBay. I've no sodding idea where I'm going to stick it but I'm impressed by Mr Brown's stance on this matter. :)

Re: Fly The Flag
 

well hes only been in the job 2 mins and Gordon Brown has done more to restore pride with the simple gesture of flying the flag than ANY Labour or Tory government has done in the last 20yrs or more. ;)

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Not to mention what he's done for flag sales on eBay! :D

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Surely the EU flag should take precedence now that the UK is 'one of twelve'

;) :confused: ;)

Re: Fly The Flag
 

I've always been a patriot,I'm English and I'm proud,**** all those left wing PC liberals,my wheelie bin has a great big St George cross on it,I fly a St Georges cross on my rooftop,I'm no Nazi or BNP member,I'm ENGLISH and proud,if thats a crime then YES, I'm guilty

Re: Fly The Flag
 

you fishing?;) it dont take precedance in Spain,France, thats for sure.:)

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Hey, guess what, I flew the Stars and Stripes on July 4. Many Kingstonians do. I don't know if it is because we are so close to the border, or because we are, in spite of differences of opinion, good neighbours.

Maybe next July 1, you can fly the Maple Leaf.:D

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Bought myself a Union Jack today. Nice one, 3x5. And only four bucks!

Re: Fly The Flag
 

noticed that vine mill in ossy as a union jack on it flapping away!:D right on the top, looks good actually!

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Hell no and its 1 of 25 sadly. :(

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Re: Fly The Flag
 

just drove past paddock nurseries this morning n they have 2 flags flying, never crossed my mind they were anything but patriotic, good to see,:)

Re: Fly The Flag
 

Just noticed yesterday that the Union Jack is flying from Kingston City Hall, Royal Military College, Fort Henry, and CFB/BFC Kingston.