Americas overseas empire
 

interesting article about the locations and numbers of the U.S.'s overseas military bases
The Worldwide Network of US Military Bases

Re: Americas overseas empire
 

Gordon Bennet,Steeljack didn't notice nowt in Africa! P.S.Dont tell Bush.:D

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A very handy link for any would be terrorists.:D

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thats nowt i learnt how to make a bomb,tonight on the 6-00 news. :eek:

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That's why Moira Stewart was sacked!:p

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To think that at the end of WWII they didnt like Britain being an Imperial Power but this shows the USA isnt really any different. Its Imperial Empire in a modern form that suits them.

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At least we gave them Baby Jesus and syphillis, all we got from those damn imperial Yanks was McDonalds and bloody Oprah.:p

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Don't be scared of their military might, its the cultural/economic empire you should worry about!

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you sure cyfr? think Saddam may have thought that.;)

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I am worried about the whole flippin lot of it!!!!!

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And McDonalds don't even do Root Beer any more. :rolleyes:

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This establishes without a doubt what many people (me included) have been saying for many years. And that is that the greatest threat to world peace wasn’t the USSR or China or any other nation but the USA.

Just a reminder – at the end of WWII all the countries that were involved in the fighting were to all intents and purposes broke or near broke. On the other hand the USA was wealthy almost beyond the dreams of avarice.

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Whoever says that it isnt an empire is back in the dark ages. We rely on the Americans for so much as many other countries do that we might as hand the country to them instead of Europe.

They also give us with British help the ability to blow this little ball we call home out of exisitance.

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By the end of WWII Britain was no longer an imperial power.
But for the Americans we would now be eating sauerkraut for breakfast.
I don't agree with most of the foreign policies now.

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The Americans could have been as well. They were prepared for war in the Pacific but not in the Atlantic and therefore relied on the British and French navies to cover the Atlantic. When France fell there was alarm in DC to the point that through time Rosevelt managed to wangle aid to us. They needed us as much as we needed them.

As for Britain not being an Imperial power I disagree she still was though weakened like a poor sod with Malaria. America will not do anything without gaining big time and if the blame llies anywhere it should be with Japan for waking up the industrial might of America that has lead to the situation we are in.

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I like sauerkraut - but not for breakfast.

Seriously though – the American nation is made up of immigrants mainly from Europe and that included German Jews.

Some people thought that Germany would have allowed the UK to sue for peace on our own terms before the Yanks got directly involved. Didn’t Hitler offer to leave the UK alone if we undertook to pull out of Europe and not get further involved? Hitler’s biggest mistake (against the advice of his generals) was not to invade the UK when we were on our knees and choose to go for Russia instead.

After that I don’t think that Hitler had the capacity or the stomach for invading Britain. Look what it cost us and the Yanks to invade Normandy.

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What Britain did in WWII is well documented.
It was Churchill who almost begged the Americans to become involved in the war in Europe and it was Japan's attack on Pearl that caused the Americans to declare war on Japan and Germany.
Having lost Hong Kong and Malaya to the Japanese and the loss of tons of merchantmen in the Atlantic the Americans came to our aid with the Lease Lend programme and lost thousands of men as we did to stop the Germans and their allies from overrunning Europe.
In this instance I say thank you America.

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agree with royboy on this one, better late than never i say,but for the yanks we would probably have been goosed- Big-Time. = FACT.:)

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As an American, your comments are much appreciated Royboy. As for the rest, your comments are understood and respected. It can be tough being an American on Accyweb. However, I certainly understand that you guys can separate us individual Americans from the Country (which I do truly love).

I truly believe that America has done much more good for the world in her short history then evil. Dag we have, and continue to, make mistakes both here at home and abroad. So much of America as individuals are in the sewer (IMO), i.e. rap music, liberals, crappy movies and "music" videos, liberals, corrupt politicians, liberals . . .

I believe a true democracy is, can be, the best form of government. In comparison to communism and various other dictatorships.

Brian

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Ah, that's all we need. More codswallop from yet another lefty prof. Is there any other kind these days? Yeah, it's too bad America took on the job of world policeman after the Brits folded following WWII. It has cost us immeasurably in treasure and blood - and we are damned and blasted for it. But thanks to the U.S., Europe hasn't had to worry too much about military expenses over the last 60 years. Free to establish their little socialist utopias. Well good luck with that. In case you haven't noticed, Britain is the only country in the region with a military force of any significance - and that's nowhere near what it used to be. Maybe there'll be some tune changing when reality sets in.

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What reality?
Read the thread properly before jumping in with both feet.

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I did. My opinion stands.

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bullseye what do you know about reality?:D

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Plenty. I deal with it daily.

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Ah Bullseye, who loves ya baby!;):p Amazing how we can say about the same thing in such different ways eh? I do feel as you are a Brit born and raised you can better "explain" these American type questions better from that view.

I do tend to talk that way (your way) when face to face with the more liberal/left American/Hollywood types. I fear too much can come across as too inflamatory on a message board. Don't get me wrong it is a rare time that I have ever disagreed with Bullseyes' comments. But boy can she get the Accyweb dander up or what?:rolleyes:;):p

Hugs and Kisses!

Brian

Re: Americas overseas empire
 

For you to come on to a local British forum and come out with that garbish is beyond belief.
I have no time at all for the high handed American who adopt the 'Better than thou' attitude.
I don't like saying this but America have been soundly beaten in the Far East since WWII and would advise that you should be aware of the Silent Dragon.
To suggest that reality is governed by America is laughable.
I think that if all Americans are thinking the same as you.......God help us all.

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Hey LYY, i love bullseye too, love the way i cast my line in and didn't get a bite,gotta give top marks for that.;)

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Geez Royboy, Bullseye is from Lancashire. Also, many Amercians have differing thoughts on all kinds of issues. Americans can not, or at least should not, be put into one basket. You can hear exactly the opposite of Bullseye from other Americans, then there are many more moderate views.

Unfortunately (IMO) too many Americans are of the "who cares" about anything camp. Like most any other nation, when Americans come under attack or challenged, many of us forgot our inner problems and rally round the flag. Again many don't bother.

I would hope expect you guys to do the same. If I said some thing negative and from a illinformed view point about England, the Queen, the people, etc., I would expect, even if you didn't like the Queen, the people, you would still challenge my misinformed, illadvised, or straight-up wrong point of view.

I hope this is understandable? This past year I've asked loads of questions to understand things about England I did not know. Lo and behold, many of the Accyweb Nation had different views and answers to my questions. I belive that is a good thing!

Brian

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:p:pVery funny Cashy, I believe Bullseye is out shooting off her guns to relieve the strain this line of threading has put her through. She'll be back. It's just a question of if she be calm, cool, and collected or coming at you folks with both barrells blazing! ("Ya feel lucky Punk?")

Kinda weird, someone is out in "my field" shooting off some guns. I hope their not culling my squirrell herd! Off to check (and I'll only be carrying my 22 and a pointy stick!):p

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Ok the Americans did cover our backsides but 2 things stick in my mind which I believe are linked.

1. At the end off WWI General Pershing said at Versaille that the Germans should be forced to surrender instead of an armistice. The Great Powers stuck 2 fingers up at him and went for armistice leaving the Germans beaten but though unable to fight able to claim later on they were not defeated and could have carried on the fight a myth that Herr Hitler used to a tee. Hence the problems that appeared in the 30's.

2. The league of nations was formed yet America refused to join and went into isolation. One result was that when Japan decided to invade Manchuria the only power that could stop them was "unavailable" something that they would later regret considering what Tojo and his mob got up to. It did alarm them yet the Japanese just walked from the League of nation and did as they pleased. Yet If America had been part of the League would Japan have proceeded as she did?

The way I see it Pershings was ignored so America decided sod the League and the European powers and let them sort out their own issues. What did we get for the stupidity on both sides of the pond, another dose of war that was to become truely global. So maybe America has decided not to take anymore chances and is making sure they can kick butt if needed. If America hadnt been part of the UN then we wouldnt have a democratic South Korea and some sembelence of peace in that region down purely to American military might.

Now America is the police force and only real superpower though China will catch up soon. Yes its an Empire of sorts as with all Empires it is to protect what they hold true and dear and also to protect trade that they do. Money makes the world go round and as has been stated the USA is rich but would have suffered a slump after WWII because of the bankruptcy but bailed out everyone to keep their own econemy afloat and avoid another Great Depression.

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Right before Bullseyebarb gets her dander up again, I agree we did need America in WWII to finish off Hitler, however it was the RAF that saved us from invasion.

The Marshal plan has to be one of the greatest philanthropic acts of all times. The support of the UN through the 50's and 60's help keep world peace in difficult times.

Policy did begin to change and paranoia of anything left of rabid conservatism helped corrode those ideals in the 70s and 80s. (think south east Asia and Nicaragua).

Foreign policy again improved under Clinton (Whatever you think about his internal policies he was a great staesman and brilliant at foreign policy

However because I thank them for that then does not mean I have to cow down to whatever they say now. The American foreign policy is the most self righteous, egotistical, warmongering ethos I can think of.

Until America accepts it isn't always right then there will always be hatred of it in some quarters. Winning hearts and minds is not done with an M16.

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What's wrong with liberals? I vote Liberal federally; and provincially, I vote for the New Democrats (as close to Labour as you can get over here). Canadians, who don't have an Empire, nor do they want one, are natural Liberals. They don't trust the tory party, and they don't really trust the NDP, liberals in Canada manage to mix fiscal responsibility and policies to promote economic growth with medicare and the social safety net. I think next time I will vote for the Green Party ... yes, we have one.
But enough, trying to explain Canadian politics to a non-Canadian is like trying to explain cricket to a Mohawk. And believe me I have tried:D and she looks at me like I'm crazy!:rolleyes:

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OK Ballseye........go to bed and reflect.
Britain is not your enemy we will stand together if you toe the line.
Identify your enemy and go for them and don't bite the hand that keeps you afloat.
If you are British born and have not been brain washed I will accept your views .

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I might have got involved in a political argument here between our country cousins here...............Time to back out.

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Its not a pollitical argument its the facts that leads to the situation we have. We cannot changed what happened but at least we can learn and hopefully not make them mistakes again.

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There are no "facts." What passes for "fact" or "reality" is a fiction built from bias. But don't quote me.:confused:

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Dag Roy boy, IMO, there is no need to tell anyone on Accyweb to "go to hell." This especially in a mere discussion thread.

Secondly, since Barb is British born, but may have different views from you, will only cause you to assume she's been brainwash. Can't you rather accept that she and millions of other Americans have different views from you. Also that living here these many years gives her a different, if not better, perspective from you?

Not a sermon, just a thought!

Brian

Re: Americas overseas empire
 

Sorry Brian , have to disagree with you on this one , writing as an American (though born and bred in Accrington and District) I think Barbs views are a little extreme , No way do I or many other 'left coast/California liberals' think that the US should be the worlds policeman.
What I think most Americans [probably yourself included] want is for our Govt. to look after America first, and at the present time the US is starting to look like the proverbial house of cards .....ready to come crashing down.....
The $ is worth less and less every day compared the Euro/British Pound/ Canadian dollar, due to the cost of the war in Iraq
Inflation a the grocery store is out of control due to the international energy companies encouraging farmers to switch to bio-fuel crops instead of cattle feed grains.
Our balance of payments to China is way out of whack , it's now nearly impossible to buy anything with a 'made in America' label , all the manufacturing jobs have gone .......When I go to the local Sears to buy a pair of Levis I expect them to be American made not some label saying 'assembled in Honduras' , if I need new tires for my truck I want them to come from Akron , not some place in China , knowing that they may blow out at 60 mph. here in California we are building a new Bay Bridge with Federal and State funds, guess where the steel is coming from .... not Pittsburgh Pa. ........no , China ........we longer build our own bridges .
I think most Americans and probably most Brits think the same ....they have been let down by their own elected officals in the name of 'Globalization' with the West being pulled down to third world levels with the excuse being that globalization is raising third world standards , nonsense the only people benefiting are the international Bankers and Multi-national corporations and we are using our militaries [US and UK as proxy mercenaries .
Seems to me there is more than a bit of hypocrisy in some our elected officials when they cry foul when most Americans want to build a wall on our Southern border yet the have no qualms about our number 1 ally in the mid-east building walls and creating 'ghettos' in the west bank and Gaza.

and yep, even as a west coast liberal , I have voted twice for the Austrian guy (Arnold) in State elections.
:D :D

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This thread has been great to follow, great history lesson,I wish I could come in on this, but I nicked off school the day they had history,just a couple of comments though, did England crack the code, and allowed Pearl Harbour to Happen so America would come into the war,this is not a dig, I just heard it somewhere.Oh and just one more comment, before I return to just reading this thread Go to Hell was a bit strong.

Re: Americas overseas empire
 

Probably was and I apologize for that, it was not meant as it came across.

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not being a physcologist:D i think the go to hell comment was just a throwaway remark that royboy made, sort of thing i say myself on a regular basis, dont mean owt nasty with it,just the way i talk, say things as i see em, some folk cant handle/ dont like, that well soz thats me tough.:D

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I have heard about Churchill not telling US that Pearl Harbour would happen. Some 'official secrets' have a 100yr disclosure date -our children will know the truth eventually.
As for 'The Grumpy Old Men' on this forum :D - make allowances for them - your time will come :D

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:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38: chuck berry has spoken :D who loves ya baby,just made my day margaret.

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Come on Margaret thats sexist............What about the ones in curlers?

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The avatar is Les Dawson in drag as you well know :D
I happen to not need curlers since my ginger hair is naturally curly - are you being 'gingerist'? :D
As it happens - this avatar seems to be doing what I hoped it would - because Les Dawson was a lovable comedian nobody has been nasty to me while I have it - and I get more comic responses.
'The image says everything'

PS sorry off topic

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I'll go for that :Banane48:

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Put a picture in my profile (just for you dear X ) :)

(we are off topic again)

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I think you are right in much of what you say. What America is going thro' now, England went thro' in the late 19th cent. The move from manufacturing to paper shuffling and legal money laundring makes sense for those few well-heeled people who will make money from it, but the workers and the industrial infrastructure suffer.

But there is another point of view: take the automobile for eg., most cars made in the US are, to be kind, pieces of s**t. The work force may complain about the outsourcing of jobs, but if they made better stuff perhaps it would sell. We all know that the best car for the buck is not the chevvy but the Toyota. I think that Admiral Beatty got it right, when , at the Battle of Jutland, he said: "there is something wrong with our bloody ships today." Damn right there was; they were made in England. (On the other hand so were the sailors, much can be made of sub-standard military equipment by superior fighting men).

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Well as for Beatty at Jutland it was a case of the top of the pile didnt talk to the bottom shoody planning and lousy execution of the act. As per usual the top blamed the bottom when the cowpats flew up top and blamed all bar themselves. Does that sound familiar in this day and age and in what America is going through now?

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Its more than that. Correlli Barnett' s "The Sword Bearers" has a good chapter on Jutland, "Sailor with a Flawed Cutlass." Whatever the failings of the high command, many of the ships were junk.

Also I think it is not only the Iraqi war that is driving down the greenback. It is a lack of faith in American leadership. One can't expect the rest of the world to understand the convoulutions of the American political system, but it does not take much detailed knowledge to realize that the leader of the country, if left to himself, could not run a hot dog stand. The strong performance of the loonie is due more to the fact that Canada probably has more oil than the middle east ... not easy to get at but it's there, and at today's prices it is profitable to extract it. And the strength of European economies is due more to their innovation and expertise and less to the American military screw ups.

And I don't think Barb's ideas are all that extreme. If they were GWB would not be President. The scary thing about the majority of the American voting public is that they think like Barb. But that is democracy and the First Ammendment. Ironic that the strengths of America are also, in a sense, its greatest weaknesses.

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This will sound odd but I agree with you Steeljack as well as with Eric. And still at the same time agree with Barb.

Certainly the West coast and Northeast are much more liberal then the Southeast and the Midwest. So Barb's views are extreme for certain areas of the country but rather normal for the south.

Your other great and obvious point Eric was regarding American products and their crappy workmenship these past 30 years (IMO). I gave up on the American auto mobile after going through a chevy (Vega:o) , Ford (Tempo), Ford (Ranger), Oldsmobile (Cierra). Not only were these all cheaply made, the service departments were so customer unfriendly!

I put alot of blame on the Unions and also on the Government (IMO).

Quick point on Royboy's statement. It may be a bit of a cultural thing. In this area, that statement is taken as bad as the F word (and that means they aren't used often and are greatly offensive)(IMO). May be more shocking to see from me then to how it's used over there eh?

Brian

Re: Americas overseas empire
 

A comment on the Pearl Harbor conspiracy. My view is that Roosevelt was itching to get us in to get us out of the depression. That's why all our Battleships were lined up so nicely in the harbor and all the planes were set right next to each other. At the same time. all our crucial aircraft carriers were far from the carnage.

IMO, Britain had an absolute right to be pee'd off by America's lack of involvement. To sit back and watch the bombing of London. Terrible. We should have had forces over there in England before the Battle of Britain (Probably as we saw what was going on at Dunkirk!). Hence either preventing it from happening or to at least render material force.

Brian

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I don't think so. I know that supporters of Adm. Husband Kimmel have tried and maybe still trying are (that's my Yoda immitation) to clear his name. I am aware that the theory is that Washington witheld intelligence, sort of like the Brits dropping lightly armed paras onto the 21st. Panzer Division even tho' aerial photos showed they were there. But Pearl Harbor was a FUBAR, and if one includes Gen. Short, a JANFU. The Japanese learned from the Brits and their attack on Taranto. The US didn't.

What makes this slightly relevant to this discussion is the "waking the sleeping giant" aspect. In this sense the Japanese attack on Pearl is one of the root causes of modern US militarism and imperialism. In 1940 ... from May/June on anyhow ... the US could not have rendered any "material force" help. They were as unprepared for the Germans as Stalin was.

And a brief (fairly) quote: "Half a century has passed, and the time has come to sweep away the myths and reveal the no less inspiring gleam of that complex and frightening time in which evil was in the ascendant, goodness diffident, and the British -impetuous, foolish, and brave beyond measure - the world's only hope." (And Canadians, Australians, and New Zealanders too)

Re: Americas overseas empire
 

Enjoyed reading the rest of the thread, between packing for my next trip. Hey, LYY, thanks for taking up the cudgel on my behalf.

Despite some of the popular misconceptions on this site, most Americans are not myrmidons. We are neither far to the left or right - but we are a right of center country. Perhaps the problem for some of you is that we aren't terribly keen on relinquishing our national identity and independence. Ditto our Bill of Rights. Nor do we wish to get sucked into the bureaucratic maw of an EU/UN style form of governance, whereby the sovereignty of individual countries is eroded.

I haven't been brainwashed by anyone. I was an adult when I made my decision to leave England. America was and remains a better fit for me.

Although our demise has often been predicted, I remain optimistic about my country and its endeavors.

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Hope you enjoy your vacation, Barb. And a little joke for you; hope you find it a little funny: "Why did the Canadian cross the road?" Ans: To get to the middle.

Here's wishing you a safe journey.:)

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Thanks, Eric. Off to Teddy Kennedy country again. Always a rip.

Enjoyed the joke.