Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

BBC NEWS | England | Merseyside | Youths quizzed over man's murder
Another day another death caused by feral packs of youths.
Whilst watching a report of this on Sunday's BBC,I noticed one thing,the reporter was interviewing neighbours of the deceased,the middle aged ones expressed their shock and sadness,whilst a younger resident stated,' it was a quiet area,no trouble really..well we've had cars damaged...but that's kids!!'
I find it depressing that the car damage is expected and accepted as the norm.
Perhaps if we were all less blase about 'kids'damaging property, there would be less chance of these kinds of attacks on our streets.
Meanwhile another family grieves.
What's the answer?

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

Stricter Laws, Stricter Teachings and stricter parenting..........




All above will never happen!! :rolleyes:

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

This murder took place round the corner from my elder daughter's house, about 200 yards away. It's a pleasant, residential area 2 miles out of Warrington town centre. The sort of place where, 20 years ago, you could never have imagined this sort of thing could happen.

What the hell have we allowed to be done to Society?

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

West Ender, I don't think anybody has the answer to this, it is just a sad reflection of todays society that these morons walk our streets and cause grief to innocent people without a second thought.

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

We may struggle with stricter laws and strickter teaching put as parents its our responsibility to bring up well mannered well behaved and well disiplined kids. The way it stands at the moment a parent can be considered a criminal for giving a kid a slap. It will reach the point were it will be mob rule on the streets because the law aint got the backbone to sort these minorities of gangs that plague nieghbourhoods out.

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

Yes I know what you mean about the parenting Spugg but, I think if you have good parenting skill's there is no need for slapping your kids any way!

My mum very rarely had to ever slap us, but I think we were quite well mannered kids. The LOOK she gave us was enough to know we had over stepped the mark :(

And we were taught from a very young age that we ever bring the police to her door and we would have more than the police to worry about!!

As it goes, I don't need to slap my children and they are good mannered kids, and they too know if they ever brought the police to my door, they would be in deep lumber!! None of this " my kids have rights" bull, they get into trouble with the police, they pay the consequences dearly.


I know it's not easy being a parent, but if you start with the right attitude while they are young, then you don't have as much trouble when they get older. Much harder to try and change a teenager that has got away with blue murder all their life :rolleyes:

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

Very true slinky:D Also kids needs guidence on whats right or wrong & to apply the right track & not the wrong one to any given situation & yes that has to start learning that early on in life - even if said situation has not necessarily arrived yet - then kids need to be warned & taught before some situations arrived as consequence of actions done earlier that may of not been as bad but soon escalates.

My kids hate the word 'consequences' cos they hear it that much:D

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

Well said slinky.. Although I got slated on here for having the same point of view so take a deep breath..

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

I have no real trouble with Lauren as she knows if I raise my voice a tad she has gone too far. Personally I think its those parents who dont give a damn providing that their kids are out of their way they are ok. So its in many cases "out of sight out of mind" attitude that prevails. The result is that these parents are ignorant of what their "little lambs" are up to, that and those that give em £30 at the weekend and say "go and enjoy yourself" while in a blinkered state as to what they are up to. End result is violence, drugs, drink, underage pregnancies and criminal damage.

Parents should be hauled over the coals at the same time as their offspring. Its too easy for them to say they dont know what the kids are doing which to me is negligence.

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

A friend of ours got beaten up badly last year trying to fend off yobs stealing & wrecking his car, he ended up having his legs smashed in, also after all that the police didnt get them [be usual down to evidence] so our friend was left scared in his own home to the point late last year spent a lot of time staying with friends, cos he was worried they'd come back for more of the same:( which i think they did or was serious hint or so.

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

God forbid that I had ever got in trouble with the police,I dread to think how my mum would have reacted. I even got wise when I got a slap at school[which wasn't very often may I add], I never told her after she slapped me again saying I must have dione something to deserve the slap in the first place. If my memory serves me right I had gine onto the fire escape at playtime, todays kids need a bit of old fashioned disipline, that is what they are short of.

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

Parents parents are mainly to blame.... plus it would do no harm to give the kids a good smack now and again.... never did me any harm:

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

The problem is there is no respect anymore, or any deterrent.

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

A slap when they are young enough is a good deterrent....make them think twice ( like we did when we were kids) well anyone over 35 that is

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

Had a few of them. If the police were involved you copped it of them as well as parents. Its time it came back before we have a society that is run on mob and street law.

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

Spot on Slinks...I agree wholeheartedly and funnily enough I would say mine are well mannered too...karma on its way :)

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

Thanks for the Karma HR and Kipax :o

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

Another incident not far from here. Not the same consequences yet but another example of kids on mob rule :mad:

BBC NEWS | England | Lancashire | Goth couple badly hurt in attack

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

That sounds about right for todays youths, we don't like how you dress so we will beat you up. My niece is a Goth and she is a lovelu girl, these people are pig ignorant:mad:

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

one or two goths have come to grief down Blackburn also in recent times,i only know a couple myself,but both are lovely people and totally inoffensive,groups who attack innocent people are not "Cool" "HARD" they are just ignorant cowardly scumbags.:(

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

Your are quite right there Cash they think it is ok to batter someone just cause they don't like the look of them. Bet they aren't so brave one on one:(

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

They hard on their own that they dont want to walk around alone in case a dose of payback appears. :D

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

just read on ceefax, 2 x 15yr olds n 1 x 16 yr old have been charged with the murder of that poor guy.

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

that was what I was getting at they would s... theirselves if they were cornered, oh that would be a sight to behold:)

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

That would be one for on You Tube :D

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

since these kids are not old enough to go to a proper prison, then the parents should be punished, they the ones who have brought these kids up, they are the ones who have taught these thugs from right and wrong, so these so called parents should be made to pay the price!!
as someone said on here, its what we would get off our parents that made us behave, corporal punishment should be brought back and borstal reopened!!:mad: then lets see how 'hard' these kids feel!

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

Whilst agreeing that most of it is down to parenting, it's not 100% always the case of bad parenting. Kids can go off the rails due to peer pressure more than bad parenting.

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

Well said...There are many outside influences..

Also where would you draw the line with parents being punished.. I wouldn't fancy doing school detention for them .. I can manage the no playstation for a day punishment:) but... well.. where do you draw the line? It's not really a viable solution when you give it some thought.. more a knee jerk answer.

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

well in my experience of life would beg to differ i dont no any kids that have gone so far off the rails when good parenting as been used the only members of my family that have gone of the rails is to of my cousins and that was there mum not giving a dam what they were upto blaming it on being a single parent .what a poor excuse give them love and guidence and morals and they will no right from rong

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

I have 2 stepdaughters both of whom went wayward in their teens. As parents we were critisicised for wrapping them up in cotton wool, therefore totally the opposite of not giving a damn. Given my morals and respect for the law and the rest of human life I would have been extremely annoyed to be locked up for something they did. You can explain right and wrong until you are blue in the face but it doesn't always sink in with some kids. Society has a habit of given publicity/recognition to those who do wrong, very little praise is given to those who do right.

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

So you don't think there are strong outside influences like best friends.. school friends.. bullies, teachers and all manner of people that have a direct influence on your child.. of course parents are the strongest but outside influences play a big part as indeed they should in life...

How many kids have you got davo69 and are they anywhere near teenagers yet?

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

son 18 daughter 15 yes there are influence from many arears but noing right from wrong is something different being able to talk to your perants is a big thing my son when he was 12 came home and told me he hade tried smoking for the first time and he had burnt a hole in is shirt he new i would not be happy because me and my wife have never smoked but he new he could talk to me and wasnt scared to tell me he had done something he wasnt happy with

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

So 15 yr old knows right from wrong.. knows the correct values in life and has been brought up well..

same 15 yr old out with best mate who says lets do this that and the other.. or theres 15 of them and they all want to do somehting not quite right but not too wrong... what 15 yr old is going to be the one that says.. not me I am going home... Give over... ... the biggest influence will be first love (esp as teenager). and you can bet yer bottom dollar that will be more important than either parent.... unfortunatly...

me? 7 kids aged 11-31, 5 sons and 2 daughters..

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

Funny this discussion came up yesterday & my 2 who was huffing & puffing at their punishment of no spending money, we compared ours with theirs, lets say shock was one of the looks as we knew the meaning of not sitting down proper for a week!

Did it make us any better for it ? no probably fear of a good hiding after experiencing it was the only hold over behaviour, to either put up & shut up or do a runner, same principle held in domestic violent relationships too! Nowadays counts as child abuse them days discipline!! Many of us that had that discipline at the time vowed never to do that to their children & look for better ways, to which the next generation parenting changed.

As a parent myself with a difficult child, its very hard, i do discipline my children with sanctions & correctional discussions, im very aware of my job as a parent to make sure i bring up decent human beings, but i battle hard with it, i've had many breaking points where i feel im failing as a parent because as much as i try - it doesnt get through despite my best efforts & sometimes u feel to give em a good hiding but i know that wont solve the problem only maybe to exasberate it further, so not an option, only creates more distance, aggression & hatred kind of counter productive & negative. You want your kids to able to confide, talk & not be scared to come to you if theres a problem or advice, so in the event of something bad happening or about to happen you still can help to prevent that. I dont beleive that sparing the rod spoils the child, cos that child grows up & may return that rod to you or to others. There are many ways of disciplining that are more productive - BUT it means a lot of effort, patience & consistancy & THATS what fails for many parents is that they are after quick fixes or instants to save time & effort because they have beter things to do than with their children.

Parents are accountable for their kids, but as with owt else its the ones that are trying & getting nowhere or want help that cop for it more than those who simply cant be arsed - & thats where the problem is.

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

You can't even give them a slap these days or you are labelled a child abuser.

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

i would expect any fifteen year old to no right from wrong so one says lets kick this guys head in and they all would follow think not of my kids anyway they would walk away and get help for the poor sod

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

If you want to discuss the outside influences on children and the fact that they will do wrong and it's not all down to parents then go ahead.. if you want to twist words and make it look like i think all kids will do really nasty stuff then I am not interested in continuing what I htought was a healthy mature debate ..

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

That is very very true!!

Last week my kids were playing out in the garden when a community warden came talking to them.

My kids asked about the " free tickets for bowling and cinema " they were dishing out round the neighborhood. The warden said " well usually we give them to the bad boys and girls to get them off the streets during the school holidays, but I will see what I can do about getting you 2 boys some " and took their names and addresses.

Now I'm sorry, but who are the winners here?? My kids have never been in the slightest bit in trouble with the police!! (( and hopefully would never dare )) so they don't get any treats for being good, but then they hear off the wardens that only ' NAUGHTY BOYS AND GIRLS ' get them usually.:( What kind of a lesson is that??

I do feel sorry for the kids that are good, never get into trouble with the police and never anti social around the neighborhoods.........where's is their recognition for this??

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

Very true slinky indeed, same applies with schools whom dish out awards for attending school et those that do attend without complaint dont get the same praise - its just expected:(

They have a go at parents but media & society repeatedley give bad kids the rewards, no wonder there is so many bad uns about if they are going to be rewarded for it - personally good behaviour should be rewarded & bad behaviour sanctioned & made uncool.

Sounds like sweep the bad ones under he carpet pay em off the streets - rediculously counter productive:(

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

I've just come into this thread. Very interesting debate with much value seen in all the responses (IMO). I spanked my kids on ocassion when they were smaller. This for me was so much "softer" approach then the beatings we'd get for merely looking at mom or dad in the wrong way (and all kinds of other "bad" stuff). Heck, somedays it felt my pants were down with my legs being whipped more then they were up.:confused::cool:

I swore I'd not lash out in anger like that with my kids. Hence, the spankings were after the "new stuff" didn't work. Okay, nuff said! Now to back to the thread:
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/...d_quote_rb.gif
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/...t_quote_rb.gif They are animals, they are just scum really

The man quoted certainly summed them up eh? My question (and PLEASE, I do understand the fear factor), with all this going on, where were this guys neighbors. Imagine all or at least most of them coming out with bats, clubs, canes, frying pans, pointed sticks, etc.. and going after these hoodlums? Just the thought of that may have been a deterrent?

Trust me, I probably wouldn't go off on my own and jump into this fray. However, I would have taken out a gun and shot it in the air a few times. That'd see the kids scatter whilst peeing in their pants. I know, not an option for you.

Heck, can't you, in each neighborhood, place signs that state something like: "This People and Property of this Neighborhood is, and will be protected by said persons!" Then when the creeps gather on the sidewalks, the neighborhood, in mass, can tell them to bug off!

I don't know. I'm just SO wriled up for you. I HATE seeing this stuff going on. I hurt and fear for my Accyweb family having to live with this stuff happening around you. That includes the lack of consequences for these groups who perpetrate the fear, damage, and death that's going on.

Be Strong!

Brian

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

in instances like this, i wonder:confused: maybe the yanks have got it right? a couple of shots over the scums heads,i would not object to.

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

I agree. If society thinks the little angels are too young for a custodial sentence, bang their parents up for their crimes.

I bet we'd see a marked improvement in parenting skills, and there wouldn't be as many wandering the streets at night.

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

I have just read the letter to the MURDER victim from his 12 year old daughter,quite heartbreaking.He had also fought cancer,not a quitter or one to hide away,its true the good die young!
As I have said before we have a society that promotes violence on the person.
What will be the future, more police on the street or vigilanty groups?

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

I jhave also read that letter, how must his family be feeling? To fight cancer and then be taken from them in such a senseless way, they must be devastated. It makes me so angry!

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

Then who would look after the little angels the state. There are pro's and con's both ways so it is a hard choice.

Re: Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies.
 

Just hope these thugs get the sentance that they deserve, agree that the parents should be made to be responsible.