6 Points For Keeping Shtumm
 

Starting today the law changes so that if the registered keeper cannot or will not name the driver of a car that has been clocked for exceeding the speed limit or breaking any other highways law, the registered keeper gets the 6 points on their license plus the £1,000 fine with the option of being disqualified too.

When this law first reared its ugly head I was against it in principle and still am. It is up to the police to prove their case and not force the general public to give evidence under pain of punishment. THAT IS A POLICE STATE!

However as it is the law and I am generally a law abiding citizen, I can only agree to the increase from 3 points. Far too many people have been exceeding the speed limit and getting away with it. Indeed it has been suggested that some people have been paying the registered keeper to take the punishment. With 6 points on offer many people will have second thoughts about carrying the can for someone else.

Re: 60 Points For Keeping Shtumm
 

taking points that aren't 'yours' is actually perverting the course of justice and has a penalty far in excess of £1K. IIRC its clink and porridge time.

As for the point of your post, I'm in agreement that I thought we had a right to not incriminate yourself so silence is a valid response?

Still we are only motorists and easy targets when there is all that hard work involved in catching crooks/rapists/armed robbers etc waiting for attention

Re: 60 Points For Keeping Shtumm
 

have to agree with you i no a couple of people who haave took points for other drivers

Re: 60 Points For Keeping Shtumm
 

I'm not against this and if it stops people taking points for others then its a good thing, the registered keeper of the vehicle has to take responsibility for it, or be truthful to who was driving.

Re: 60 Points For Keeping Shtumm
 

I see that no one has spotted my glaring mistake.

60 Points For Keeping Shtumm

It should of course have read “6 Points For Keeping Shtumm”.

Re: 60 Points For Keeping Shtumm
 

Must admit I didn't notice:D

Re: 60 Points For Keeping Shtumm
 

I noticed.:p

I dont think this is to bad, at the end of the day the owner of the car should really know who is/was driving it.

Re: 60 Points For Keeping Shtumm
 

i agree with this totally the registererd keeper is, like grego said, responsible for that car and if they are daft enough to lend it to someone who a complete idiot on the road then thats their daft look out!;)

Re: 60 Points For Keeping Shtumm
 

We’ve been through this point before but no person should be forced to give evidence against another under pain of punishment for themselves if they don’t.

Where will it end?

DVLA admits that car cloning is rife and has reached epidemic proportions these days but it is the registered keeper who gets ‘that letter’ and then s/he has to prove her/his innocence rather than the police having to prove her/his guilt. Whatever happened to the innocent until proven guilty that is at the very heart of English law?

Re: 60 Points For Keeping Shtumm
 

The Registared Keeper of the car should know who is driving it for Insurance Purposes.

Re: 60 Points For Keeping Shtumm
 

So you and greco have never exceeded the speed limit?

It is the easiest thing in the world to let your speed creep up without really noticing it until you see that bright flash. And it can happen to anyone at any time including that very responsible driver you have loaned the car to.

Re: 60 Points For Keeping Shtumm
 

As much as I agree with you ***Mr D*** there are many scenarios where you as the registered keeper will not know who is driving your car.

Here’s just one.

Your wife/partner, son and daughter are all included on your insurance and they set off to visit granny a couple of hundred miles away. You can’t go because you have to stay at home. They share the driving there and back but you won’t know when the driver is changed. Somewhere along the way they get clocked. A week or ten days later you get ‘that letter’. You ask your family who was driving when but they cannot remember who it was or they cannot agree who was driving at the time of the offence.

The court does not accept your story and you get the points etc. Is that fair?

This is a crackpot law that drives a coach and horses right through the basic tenet of English law.

Re: 60 Points For Keeping Shtumm
 

In that case though, with it being Family, someone must have a idea who was driving, even if you narrowed it down to two of them and flipped a coin.

There are a few circumstances ie when its a company car where your argument would be fair but for the general Public someone should be accountable. as the owner should know who was in there car at that time or have a very good idea who it was. Plus it would also make you more carefull who you lent your car to.

Re: 60 Points For Keeping Shtumm
 

I think it would set a terrible precedent to decide who will take the blame by flipping a coin, if there are circumstances where no-one that shared a car on that day can honestly remember who drove on a particular stretch of road then there is an element of doubt I was given to understand in a British court of Law where there is an element of doubt then the person has to go free.

Re: 60 Points For Keeping Shtumm
 

I agree and it was a (here say) comment, but then, being double Flashed by speed camera and not noticing is a rare event.

I mean lets be honest who wouldnt remember when they where driving a car? if they did forget should they be driving? I bet if there was a reward instead of a fine they would soon remember.

I know we the motorist are just cash machines but for people to say I dont know who was driving the car, or it could of been any two of us but we cant remember is no excuse IMO, if you've done the crime pay the fine.
(unless you got a good argument;))

Re: 60 Points For Keeping Shtumm
 

Well it worked for Christine Hamilton - she got away with it saying just that

Re: 60 Points For Keeping Shtumm
 

If it were a company car the company will KNOW who is driving which car even if it came from a pool. Private hire drivers that do not use their own car use the private hire company’s car but it is known who the driver is at and given time.

I agree that someone should be accountable but forcing people under pain of them getting the punishment to grass on the driver is not on as I have already stated.

Re: 60 Points For Keeping Shtumm
 

I’ve seen the flash but it must have been the car in front that was being flashed not me. At least I don’t think it was because no letter came and that was several months ago.

If you were in a situation where there was a doubt if it was you or someone else driving would you hold your hand up?

We are all very good and positive when suggesting that others should pay the penalty when they’ve done the crime. But then that applies to them. When it applies to us we have a different outlook.

Re: 60 Points For Keeping Shtumm
 

not all gatsos have cameras, basically if it flashes once there is no camera loaded, twice normally means there is (They have changed some to flash twice even with no camera).

Also the margin of error on Gatsos is usually set quite high (~37 for 30 limits) and remember that they can't get you coming towards them.

Re: 60 Points For Keeping Shtumm
 

Re: 60 Points For Keeping Shtumm
 

Really there should not be a need to grass as the driver who borrowed your car should be good enough to own up.

I would be in NO doubt if I got caught for speeding, and if it was my car I would know who was driving.

Thats where the new law comes in "will not "was the more popular one IMO only a very small number would fit the "cannot" group.

Re: 60 Points For Keeping Shtumm
 

You know as well as I do that when it comes to owning up to a misdemeanour people will lie in their teeth if they think that they can get off. After all don’t the insurance companies tell you not to admit to anything in the event of an accident and if you do your policy could be revoked.
What if you already had 6 points on your license and as luck would have it your son/daughter/wife/cousin also drove your car on the day that you got caught speeding? Would you hold your hand up and lose your license or would you try it on?

As I already stated people are very fond of telling other people what they should do and maybe even what we would do but it is a different ball game when they become directly involved. The do as I say not as I do syndrome is prevalent.

A witness cannot be forced to give evidence in English law. They can only be forced to attend court. What they say in the box is up to the witness and if the witness says, “I didn’t see anything” then that is that. The prosecution would have to prove that the witness did have relevant information.

This motoring law is at odds with the general English law.

Re: 60 Points For Keeping Shtumm
 

The wording in a Insurance policy is there to protect the insured person. Many a time people admit it was there fault, never yet (due to this) have I seen a policy revoked.

If I was guilty on 6 points, admitting the offence I would only get another 3 points 95% of the time. so would still be safe from a totting up ban.

I do see where your coming from, but feel this law isnt to bad.

Re: 60 Points For Keeping Shtumm
 

The wording in the insurance policy is there to deny liability if they can get away with it. The fact that you have never seen a policy revoked because a driver said, “sorry mate it was my fault” doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen. Several years ago a friend accidentally reversed into a friend’s car, admitted liability because it was his friend and his insurance wouldn’t pay up because he admitted liability. He had to stand the cost himself and find another insurer.

From today it is 6 points for failing to declare who was driving. As far as I know it is still only 3 points for the guilty person.

So I will re-phrase the question to read, “What if you had 9 points etc.”

This law is a bum law and should be repealed pronto. Fat chance of that happening because the cash cow motorist adds millions to the coffers.

It is the thin end of a Draconian wedge. What will be next?

A mugged person tells the police that you saw what happened so they get onto you but you cannot say anything because the mugger knows you and you are afraid of retribution. The police know that you are a witness so because you claim that you didn’t see anything you get the 6 months that the mugger would have got had he been brought to trial and convicted.

Impossible? Yes today it would be. But how long before some clown takes the motoring law a step forward as crime continues to increase?

You might feel comfortable with this law but I wonder what your grand and great grandchildren would think when they are forced to be witnesses to crimes under pain of being imprisoned if they refuse?

Re: 60 Points For Keeping Shtumm
 

You friend was either given bad advise or was with a bad company.

How else would you tell the other person. "Excuse me I may of hit your car but it wasnt my fault". You could say telling them was an addmition of fault.?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 473815) So I will re-phrase the question to read, “What if you had 9 points etc.”

Wife would get them, No Questions.:D

Re: 60 Points For Keeping Shtumm
 

I'm not saying that I've never exceeded the speed limit, but if I were to be caught speeding (for the record I dont generally speed, the occasional 80 on the motorway) I would take responsibility for it as it would be me driving and I would have only myself to blame. If I got flashed whilst driving my other halfs car I would own upto that as well, I certainly wouldn't expect him to get the points on his license.:)