American Healthcare
 

I have to admit I had to read this twice to make sure I was reading the right thing.
BBC NEWS | World | Americas | Bush veto for child health bill

This person (I use the term loosely) beggars belief.

Re: American Healthcare
 

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I do hope someone hurries up and assassinates Bush.

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Absolutely ludicrous!!!

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Bush is the person who vetoed it!

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He needs his head looking at. From what i read they are worried that the ones who already pay for private health care who probably skint themselves paying for it would then claim the government one and it would cost too much. But are children not the future voters? Children are the ones who in the future will be the ones paying taxes etc. Sorry but i think all kids should have free health care at least. Thank god we have the NHS. People call it but i wouldnt like to live in a country and have to pay for my medical care. eg in a car accident and as they are pushing you on the trolley asking do you have insurance? What are your insurance details. No thanks. I'll stick to NHS. I know we pay for it with national insurance and taxes but its free for all at point of service. Not a case of oh your insurance doesnt cover that so you cant have that treatment you will have to pay if you want that.

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What it doesn't say in here is what is wrong with taxing tobacco to pay for it. My assumption is that the tobacco barons have a large stake in the republican party and have lobbied strongly to get it stopped.

I mean what would people rather do pay more for fags or have to pay for their kids healthcare. Oohh that is a tough one:rolleyes:

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He needs all the readies he can lay his hands on for his "little wars of conquest" oops sorry helping the oppressed. He is messing with something that will come back and bite his rump like a Hyena on a bone.

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It's not surprising ... remember he is a Texan first and an American second ... Texas was the proud execution capital of America for years .... and that is the nicer part of the Texas mentality ... For what it costs to build one Nimitz class Aircraft Carrier, the US could help alleviate many of their social problems. But don't hold your breath ....

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My cousin, who lives in Texas in a town called Georgetown just north of the state capital Austin. She has been telling me how the churches in her community have set up a medical clinic, staffed by retired doctors and nurses to provide some healthcare to the many extremely low paid working people and their families who live in their county.
Her opinion of Bush is that if he used the wealth of the US correctly he could elevate both the poverty in the US and worldwide.
It is very difficult to even begin to envisage what life must be like if you can't afford health insurance for yourself and your family and having to rely on the charity of voluntary organisations if you need healthcare urgently. We really are so fortunate in the UK that our health care is free at the point of service.

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The great USA good at fixing or trying to fix others problems while their own suffer. Time they looked after their own first then anything else after. They want human rights for all yet cant give their own basic human rights.

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Sounds a bit like somewhere I know, now where was it? Oh yes it was Great Britian!!!:confused:

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There have been many elected officials whose policies I disagreed with - however, at no time did it ever occur to me to wish them ill will or bodily harm, (even in jest.) Too bad that some people aren't able to have a rational debate without resorting to slander or threats.

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I bow to thee, oh great holy one.

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Americans have long resisted socialism. This includes Hillary Clinton's attempt at socialized medicine in the 1990's. The current brouhaha in Congress is just another attempt to expand same by piecemeal methods. I think President Bush was wise to veto this bill. We have spent not millions or billions but TRILLIONS of dollars on the poor since Lydon Johnson's "Great Society" programs were launched in the 1960's. Anyone who thinks these have been a rousing success haven't been paying attention. People who fall under the current government income guidelines are hardly impoverished.....not to mention that they want to cover "children" up to the age of 25. I am also quite sure that a great many of these people will be illegal aliens.

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So would you rather pay a few pence more on a packet of cigarettes, (and maybe discourage some people from the habit and thereby lower the burden on your healthcare system and maybe even cut your insurance bill) and ensure healthcare for the children in the impoverished underclass your country DOES have or not.

As I said even your republicans have voted for this bill, its only your president with his lobbying friends from the tobacco and oil barons who sees it as evil. Hmm war on Iraq or care for our kids, difficult that one but war wins every time as the poor will not vote or if they do will only vote Democrat.

Re: American Healthcare
 

So would you rather pay a few pence more on a packet of cigarettes, (and maybe discourage some people from the habit and thereby lower the burden on your healthcare system and maybe even cut your insurance bill) and ensure healthcare for the children in the impoverished underclass your country DOES have or not.

As I said even your republicans have voted for this bill, its only your president with his lobbying friends from the tobacco and oil barons who sees it as evil. Hmm war on Iraq or care for our kids, difficult that one but war wins every time as the poor will not vote or if they do will only vote Democrat.

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So would you rather pay a few pence more on a packet of cigarettes, (and maybe discourage some people from the habit and thereby lower the burden on your healthcare system and maybe even cut your insurance bill) and ensure healthcare for the children in the impoverished underclass your country DOES have or not.

As I said even your republicans have voted for this bill, its only your president with his lobbying friends from the tobacco and oil barons who sees it as evil. Hmm war on Iraq or care for our kids, difficult that one but war wins every time as the poor will not vote or if they do will only vote Democrat.

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So would you rather pay a few pence more on a packet of cigarettes, (and maybe discourage some people from the habit and thereby lower the burden on your healthcare system and maybe even cut your insurance bill) and ensure healthcare for the children in the impoverished underclass your country DOES have or not.

As I said even your republicans have voted for this bill, its only your president with his lobbying friends from the tobacco and oil barons who sees it as evil. Hmm war on Iraq or care for our kids, difficult that one but war wins every time as the poor will not vote or if they do will only vote Democrat.

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So would you rather pay a few pence more on a packet of cigarettes, (and maybe discourage some people from the habit and thereby lower the burden on your healthcare system and maybe even cut your insurance bill) and ensure healthcare for the children in the impoverished underclass your country DOES have or not.

As I said even your republicans have voted for this bill, its only your president with his lobbying friends from the tobacco and oil barons who sees it as evil. Hmm war on Iraq or care for our kids, difficult that one but war wins every time as the poor will not vote or if they do will only vote Democrat.

Re: American Healthcare
 

So would you rather pay a few pence more on a packet of cigarettes, (and maybe discourage some people from the habit and thereby lower the burden on your healthcare system and maybe even cut your insurance bill) and ensure healthcare for the children in the impoverished underclass your country DOES have or not.

As I said even your republicans have voted for this bill, its only your president with his lobbying friends from the tobacco and oil barons who sees it as evil. Hmm war on Iraq or care for our kids, difficult that one but war wins every time as the poor will not vote or if they do will only vote Democrat.

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So would you rather pay a few pence more on a packet of cigarettes, (and maybe discourage some people from the habit and thereby lower the burden on your healthcare system and maybe even cut your insurance bill) and ensure healthcare for the children in the impoverished underclass your country DOES have or not.

As I said even your republicans have voted for this bill, its only your president with his lobbying friends from the tobacco and oil barons who sees it as evil. Hmm war on Iraq or care for our kids, difficult that one but war wins every time as the poor will not vote or if they do will only vote Democrat.

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So would you rather pay a few pence more on a packet of cigarettes, (and maybe discourage some people from the habit and thereby lower the burden on your healthcare system and maybe even cut your insurance bill) and ensure healthcare for the children in the impoverished underclass your country DOES have or not.

As I said even your republicans have voted for this bill, its only your president with his lobbying friends from the tobacco and oil barons who sees it as evil. Hmm war on Iraq or care for our kids, difficult that one but war wins every time as the poor will not vote or if they do will only vote Democrat.

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So would you rather pay a few pence more on a packet of cigarettes, (and maybe discourage some people from the habit and thereby lower the burden on your healthcare system and maybe even cut your insurance bill) and ensure healthcare for the children in the impoverished underclass your country DOES have or not.

As I said even your republicans have voted for this bill, its only your president with his lobbying friends from the tobacco and oil barons who sees it as evil. Hmm war on Iraq or care for our kids, difficult that one but war wins every time as the poor will not vote or if they do will only vote Democrat.

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Dear mods The site froze whilst posting this please delete the extra posts.

Many apologies
Stan.

Re: American Healthcare
 

This happens Fridays:confused:

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That suprises me. Some of the people we saw in New Orleans, in the aftermath of hurricane Katrina, looked as impoverished as the residents of shanty towns in any third world country.

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'12.1 million children under 18 years of age lived in families with income below the Federal poverty threshold'

'Children living below the Federal Poverty Level represented 16.7 percent of children in the U.S.'

Child Health USA 2004 > Children in Poverty


If health care for all equates to 'socialism', give me socialism everytime.

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Yes aggreed paper talk is no substitute for experienceic's cheap enough to go and form your own opinions later with a little knoeledge and hindsight. Try travelling the 'Eastern Seaboard' railroad from New York to St Petersbourg, this was my eye opener.
Usa is a country of two classes only, it has not the luxury of a long history or the millstone off the sponging classes no not the poor the middle and aristocrats that we have to carry.Have you noticed whilst Princess Diana's inquest has been in progress, they are advertising on tv for Gt.Ormond St Hospital, not Royal Blackburn 50 Million for a new cross -London railway, not Manchester Airport link to the Metrolink surely sorely needed , you'r right 'Barb,' it''s time we put our own house in order.

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bit of a cheap shot ........Katrina caused havoc and death not only in New Orleans (where the TV cameras happened to be) but all along the Gulf coast , Mississippi and the western parts of Alabama taking a bigger hit , but due to political correctness and TV ops much of the world only saw the effects of Katrina on New Orleans , the place (apart from the touristy French Quarter) was a vipers cess pit before Katrina, the murder capitol of the US , and even with a reduced population is rapidly achieving that dubious reputation again, thru lack of effective local leadership and corruption from the local political elite (Mayor Nagin etc.)
Whole communities along the coast for 200 miles were wiped out , such as Pass Christian in Mississippi but they are rebuilding the town and their lives , despite being ripped off by the insurance companies and being ignored by the Federal Govt. ......probably these are the folks who you would describe as 'white Bible thumping rednecks', but believe me when I say these are good people who believe 'god helps them who help themself ' not those who wait for or demand a Govt. check which can be spent in liquor stores and strip clubs like many of the evacuees from New Orleans did .
:( :( :(

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Wasn't meant as a cheap shot. It's a fact that this was the first time a lot of the world realised that the U.S.A. isn't just the land of milk and honey, and that it has it's own impoverished underclass, and from your own government's figures 12.1 million children live below the poverty threshold, many of whom were seen on the news for the first time following Katrina.

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I just find it inredulous that dubbya would veto a bill that would provide free healthcare to kids in the poverty trap. There is a seriously impoverished underclass in all American cities. Those who searched for the American dream and had it kick them in the teeth.

If it is to be paid for by a tax on tobacco then the very fact that their parents spend the money in the liquor stores (if what the Amercans on here say is true) and tobacconists means they will be paying for it anyway, so where's the problem:D.

On a more serious note how can one of, if not THE, most developed nation in the world fails to provide healthcare for the most vulnerable members of it's society. Land of Milk and Honey more like land of greed and money.

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I think that it is time to make the point that millions of Americans are just as appalled at Bush's decision as people in other parts of the world. Perhaps GW has given a kick in the nuts to his own party ... after all, he is the dimmest man ever to hold the top job in America.

Also, it is time to look at the right wing American argument that prosperity depends on avoiding any form of government aid to the less fortunate. Let's think about the present strength of the US dollar, as compared say to the loonie, the currency of that great bastion of liberalism and socialism that lies to the north of the US ...

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The President is perfectly willing to add more poor children to the already existing program. His objection is to expanding it to cover people who are neither children or poor. Tobacco taxes alone will not pay for this proposed expansion. More and more people are giving up the weed anyway. So then where does the money come from? This whole endeavor is about control and getting as many people as possible under the thumb of government. Our system definitely needs reform - but more government is not the answer.....as has been proven over and over again.

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Don't mess with Texas! By the way, national defense is one of the few things the federal government is authorized to undertake under our constitution......not social engineering. The states are free to experiment at will. At least they used to be.

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Perhaps you should take into consideration that negative thoughts are like bad karma. What you throw out into the world will come flying back at you just like a boomerang.

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I understand the division of powers. The British North America Act of 1867 gives the Canadian Federal govt. control of Canadian Foreign policy and national defense. In this we are alike, but Members of Parliament in Canada also represent the Provinces from which they are elected. This is why the majority of MPs from La Belle Province belong to the Bloc Quebecois, which is dedicated to the interests of Quebec as well as to the general interest of all Canadians. Weird, but it works. Members from Western Canada promote the interests of agriculture and Provincial control of the vast natural resources of the area. However, when matters of national security and overseas deployment of Canadian troops are concerned, the whole country has a voice. For example, the combat troops forming the bulk of the Canadian battle group in Afghanistan ... and these troops are serving in the hottest part of the country in Kandahar province ... are French Canadians of the Royal 22nd regiment, the Van Doos (elementary French will explain the nickname). Quebec Francophones are almost unanimous in their opposition to Canadian military involvement, and with its large population this has a major effect on Federal govt policy. Our Provinces, which seem to have more power to act than do American States, do have control over Social programs, but the Feds can and do also act in this area, thro' national policies on Health Canre, day care, etc. Large amounts of Federal tax revenues are returned to the Provinces thro' transfer payments. The poorer Provinces get more than the rich ones. These are called equalization payments. In other words, and this ramble will soon come to an end (it's fianlly raining, and I'm stuck inside today) it seems fine to say that States have the right to "experiment" with "social engineering." But do they have the resources? Can they question the spending, particularly the military spending, of the Feds? Do things like medicare come under the jurisdiction of the states, or of the Federal Govt.? Are things such as same sex marriages Federal or State questions? In Canada, the Provinces exert a hell of a lot on influnece on the Federal govt. Is the same true of American states? And I am interested more in the practice than the theory.

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[quote=Eric;479711) Large amounts of Federal tax revenues are returned to the Provinces thro' transfer payments. The poorer Provinces get more than the rich ones. These are called equalization payments. In other words, and this ramble will soon come to an end (it's fianlly raining, and I'm stuck inside today) it seems fine to say that States have the right to "experiment" with "social engineering." But do they have the resources? Can they question the spending, particularly the military spending, of the Feds? Do things like medicare come under the jurisdiction of the states, or of the Federal Govt.? Are things such as same sex marriages Federal or State questions? In Canada, the Provinces exert a hell of a lot on influnece on the Federal govt. Is the same true of American states? And I am interested more in the practice than the theory.[/quote]

Redistribution of wealth.......aka socialism. The states would indeed have the resources if we were not required to send so much of our cash to Washington - where it gets sucked into the maw of bureaucracy. I prefer one on one solutions at a local level. This is not a one size fits all country. The states should be free to decide for themselves what their priorities are. Medicare is a federal invention and has done much to skew our free market system of medicine. I lived here before Medicare/Medicaid and having had ample opportunity to compare the two systems, I vastly prefer the free market version. It worked well and was low cost. As to same sex marriage.....the government should butt out. Marriage always was a religious institution. In my opinion, the government has no business trying to redefine it. Yes, individual states can influence national politics.

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i think this link gives a fair description of the on-going debate between the Federal Govt. and States rights
States' rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

my thought on the topic is that the federal Govt. should butt out and stop interfearing in State and local matters , the idea that one size fits all is wrong, two examples of Federal intervention/interfearing was when States were threatened with the withholding of Federal Highway funds unless they abided with a national speed limit and a national drinking age of 21 .

re. the gay marriage thing , In my opinion this should be a State thing not Federal , the Feds have never got involved with 'straight 'marriage laws in different States (thinking back to when Jerry Lee Lewis married his 12 year old cousin) this was recognised as legal in all 48 states at that time .:confused: this is where the 'fear factor' comes in , if one state allows gay marriage do all the others have to recognize it ? as they did with J L Lewis's


Eric , a bit of a wander , but is your Canadian RCMP the equivelent of the US FBI , (a federal police force which operates in all the provinces)?

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On the wandering question: The RCMP is a federal police force controlled by the federal govt, which appoints a commisioner usually, but not always, a member of the force. The present commisioner is a civilian. This is mainly because of ongoing questions of corruption in the force. However, in areas where there is no municipal or provincial police force, the RCMP takes care of policing. In Saskatchewan, for example, outside the major urban centres, the RCMP is the police force.

I found the Wikipedia article interesting ... particularly the comments on "residual powers." We have the same thing in the BNA of 1867.

I know this is a major wander, and it will surprise Barb, but I do think that the wrong side won the Civil War. The idea of Union is differnent from the idea of Confederacy. "Union" places too much power in the hands of the central government. Canada is more confederacy than union. On October 10, Ontario goes to the polls to elect a new provincial govt. This is a major political event. And the results will have a huge effect on federal politics, maybe to the extent of precipitating a federal general election. The feds are always under pressure from the provinces, and they do listen. To ignore the provinces, particularly the powerhouses in Ontario, Quebec, BC, and Alberta, is not something the federal govt. does lightly.

The President and his appointed cabinet seem to me to be too powerful. Evidence the latest veto (yeah, almost back on topic). And even the Supreme Court, unlike the Canadian version, is too closely linked to the federal party in power, at least in terms of appointments.

My apologies to all those in Accrington and district who may be bored by all this:D:D:D

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I don't think that redistribution of tax revenue is the same as the redistribution of wealth. Redistribution of wealth is taking from the rich people and giving it to the poor. What I was talking about was redistribution of provincial tax revenue, or more precisely redistribution of federal taxes which of course bring in more money from the wealthy provinces than they do from the smaller, poorer ones.