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chrismuller

03-10-2007 15:52

first aid at school

Petition to: To have basic first aid in secondary schools.

Please click the Link above to sign the petition at 10 Downing Street for the approval to have First Aid Lessons available at ALL schools.

If you think its a good idea for your children and grandchildren to be able to be in a position to save somebodys life or just to be able to assist in the smallest of first aid and give them a life skill in the process then please sign the petition.
We need to get it to 100 signitures but if we can get far beyond that it would be wonderful.

First Aid is so important and our kids deserve to be taught this valuable skill.

Thank you for your time.

BERNADETTE

03-10-2007 16:21

Re: first aid at school

All done, waiting for an e-mail now:D

BOB	03-10-2007 16:27

Re: first aid at school

Me Too No Probs

BERNADETTE

03-10-2007 17:09

Re: first aid at school

Quote:

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE (Post 477510)

All done, waiting for an e-mail now:D

Got the e-mail so done and dusted:p

WillowTheWhisp

03-10-2007 17:52

Re: first aid at school

I'm beginning to wonder about the validity of First Aid training after being told that if you try to save someone's life and fail you can be held responsible for their death.

shillelagh

03-10-2007 18:10

Re: first aid at school

Done. The email came through quick as well.

jambutty

03-10-2007 19:20

Re: first aid at school

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 477551)

I'm beginning to wonder about the validity of First Aid training after being told that if you try to save someone's life and fail you can be held responsible for their death.

What absolute and utter balderdash and the epitome of a selfish attitude. Not giving first aid in case the patient dies and you get sued. Sheeeesh!!!

If you see another human being injured or ill you go to their aid and do what you can until professional help arrives.

First aid doesn’t just mean saving a life.
It can mean stopping serious bleeding from a cut or from the nose.
It can mean cooling a burn.
It can mean encouraging a person to keep a limb still if a fracture is suspected.
It can mean simply moving objects from the immediate proximity a person in the throws of an epileptic fit so that they don’t injure themselves.
It can mean simply reassuring the injured person or talking to them to keep them awake until professional help arrives.
It can also mean knowing not just what to do but also what NOT to do if a medical emergency arises and when to seek professional help. And that is important considering there are so many old wives tales flying around about how to treat this and that.

So I’m all for it and water life saving too.

I learned very basic first aid in the scouts, which has been shown since then to have been a load of rubbish. Then in the navy I got proper tuition although the Holger Neilsson resuscitation method was still in use at that time.

Back in civvy street I took several St. John’s Ambulance first aid courses. Of course the certificate has expired long ago but that doesn’t mean to say I suddenly forgot what was taught me.

My only problem today would be getting down to floor level where the victim would most likely be.

ANNE	03-10-2007 21:08

Re: first aid at school

This is a good idea.
Done just waiting for mail.

West Ender

03-10-2007 21:09

Re: first aid at school

I've signed it and I think it's a good idea, though I don't think it will happen, but I couldn't help noticing the wording of the petition. It mentions "poisson". Chris Moore should have used a spell checker because, while I applaud the sentiment, that's the French word for fish. :rolleyes:

Ber999T

03-10-2007 23:35

Re: first aid at school

Signed and hope that this happens sooner rather than later

Willow as I have stated before providing the person using 1st iad does not go beyond the scope of their training or use equipment they have not been trained in it's use that they should be covered under "The Good Smaration Act".

Well put Jam about retaining the how to do it but there is nothing to stop you telling someone HOW to do it (got to go job in)

WillowTheWhisp

04-10-2007 09:34

Re: first aid at school

Yes, it's this good Samaritan thing I am referring too after what other people posted on a previous thread. My natural instinct would be to help but it seems that people are put off these days because they get into trouble for helping. I was quite shocked by some of the information provided there by some of our other members.

Jambutty, before you accuse me of being selfish perhaps you should check out my response to those comments in the drowning boy thread. Or are you determined to carry on a personal vendetta from elsewhere?

If I see a child crying in the school playground when I am there in my official capacity my instinct is to put my arm round him or her and comfort them but guess what - this is no longer allowed. I find this incredibly sad.

I used to teach a nursery class and it use to be normal procedure for one teacher to take a child to the toilet when the child needed to go, but guess what, that is no longer allowed either. Now if there are not 2 people available to take the child then the whole class has to be trouped along and the child has to go to the toilet WITH THE DOOR OPEN, so that an adult and child are not alone together in the toilet. Again I find this very sad.

A child fell off his bike outside our house. He was crying. His knee was bleeding. I bathed it, dabbed on some antiseptic and put a plaster on it. I suppose he could be allergic to the plaster and I could be sued by the parents. I suppose I could have been accused of assault for putting antiseptic on, after all teachers are no longer allowed to do things like that. I didn't invite the child into the house but did all this on the garden wall because I have had it drummed into me about not being alone with a child I am not related to. I took the chance of caring for the boy's knee because I cared more about that than about the risk of being sued.

My point is though that whatever you do these days you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. Life used to be a darned site simpler when people just used common sense but it all stems from this money grabbing society we live in coupled with a morbid fear of paedophiles. I'm sure the latter manage to entice children into their clutches regardless of all these rules and regulations.

Ber999T

05-10-2007 03:13

Re: first aid at school

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 477745)

Yes, it's this good Samaritan thing I am referring too after what other people posted on a previous thread. My natural instinct would be to help but it seems that people are put off these days because they get into trouble for helping.

Willow that is fine and the above quote is a great way of saying how to determine YOUR (as in anybody's) limit of treatment.

If I see a child crying in the school playground when I am there in my official capacity my instinct is to put my arm round him or her and comfort them but guess what - this is no longer allowed. I find this incredibly sad.

I used to teach a nursery class and it use to be normal procedure for one teacher to take a child to the toilet when the child needed to go, but guess what, that is no longer allowed either. Now if there are not 2 people available to take the child then the whole class has to be trouped along and the child has to go to the toilet WITH THE DOOR OPEN, so that an adult and child are not alone together in the toilet. Again I find this very sad.

This bit is not about the "GSA" but Child Protection (but I call it Adult Protection in that if you follow the guidelines you can't go wrong) and is completey (sp) different, but I do agree it is totaly over the top

A child fell off his bike outside our house. He was crying. His knee was bleeding. I bathed it, dabbed on some antiseptic and put a plaster on it. I suppose he could be allergic to the plaster and I could be sued by the parents. I suppose I could have been accused of assault for putting antiseptic on, after all teachers are no longer allowed to do things like that. I didn't invite the child into the house but did all this on the garden wall because I have had it drummed into me about not being alone with a child I am not related to. I took the chance of caring for the boy's knee because I cared more about that than about the risk of being sued.

This sounds like you used Basic First Aid and well done however did the parents not know what had happened and did they thank you?

My point is though that whatever you do these days you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. Life used to be a darned site simpler when people just used common sense but it all stems from this money grabbing society we live in coupled with a morbid fear of paedophiles. I'm sure the latter manage to entice children into their clutches regardless of all these rules and regulations.

Yes Willow it does seem like your dammed if you do and dammed if you don't and guess the PCSO that were at the pond would have liked to have been able to make that choice but couldn't. As to the saddos that prey on kids well can't say on a family friendy forum so will leave that to your thoughts.........................

WillowTheWhisp

05-10-2007 07:43

Re: first aid at school

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ber999T (Post 478042)

This sounds like you used Basic First Aid and well done however did the parents not know what had happened and did they thank you?

I didn't hear any more about it so have no idea what the parents thought. He doesn't live in our street. In fact I don't know where he does live. I think he'd been up to the park. He was just riding past here and fell off. My daughter was outside and came in to tell me that there was a boy crying outside because he'd fallen off his bike and hurt his knee.

WillowTheWhisp

05-10-2007 07:50

Re: first aid at school

Ber, can I ask your professional opinion about 'cardiac pulmonary rescucitation' and the other things on the list in the petition - is it always going to be beneficial or is it ever possible that someone could do more harm than good? I know I'm probably just being devil's advocate here but I've heard of cases where someone has been moved and more damage been done such as a spinal injury being put into the 'recovery position' and the person ending up permanently paralised. The last person who spoke to us about first aid (at church) said that tilting someone's head back to give mouth to mouth could result in damage to the neck and removing a crash helmet could be dangerous for them. It just seems like such a minefield.

chrismuller

06-10-2007 22:29

Re: first aid at school

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We only have 30 mins to go
and still need 30 to sign it
has your partner got a email?
you son doughter grandson or dougter
do you have a email for work?
if not why not get them one?
this is a list of email that i can think off
Hotmail is now Windows Live Hotmail. Free e-mail with security by Microsoft.
e-mail - BlackburnMail - A free service
Petition to: To have basic first aid in secondary schools. is the site

jambutty

07-10-2007 20:50

Re: first aid at school

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 478063)

If a person is in a burning car and it looks like they might have damaged their neck or back would you leave them to burn or get them out and risk further damage?

Obviously you get them out and hope for the best unless the fire is a small one and you have the means of extinguishing it.

One of the first lessons that are taught in First Aid is not to move the person unless you are SURE that in doing so you will not cause further injuries or their life is in danger if they are to be left where they are.

You only put a person into the recovery position if they are unconscious and you HAVE TO leave them unattended. Otherwise you sit by and watch and listen to their breathing and monitor their pulse.

If a person has stopped breathing you have to remove the helmet unless you can devise some other way to get air into their lungs. It’s no good worrying about the possible consequences of removing the helmet whilst the victim is not breathing.

If a person is drifting in and out of consciousness and their head tends to droop forward you can make a neck brace out of a newspaper or hold the head back yourself.

If a person has burned their hand and the skin has been broken, put it into a plastic bag and seal it around the arm before immersing in cold water. If a person has burned their arm or leg and the skin has been broken, wrap the burned area with cling film. Infection can do a lot more damage than the burn itself. If the skin has not been broken just cool it. The blister that forms is the body’s way of protecting the flesh.

First Aid isn’t about rushing around with bandages, splints and defibrillators but about keeping the victim alive until professional help arrives.

Mr Aleks

07-10-2007 21:03

Re: first aid at school

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 479034)

If a person is in a burning car and it looks like they might have damaged their neck or back would you leave them to burn or get them out and risk further damage?.

Sounds abit dangerous to me. Id consult a health and safety type person first.

WillowTheWhisp

07-10-2007 21:05

Re: first aid at school

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 479034)

If a person is in a burning car and it looks like they might have damaged their neck or back would you leave them to burn or get them out and risk further damage?

I wonder what the PCSOs are told to do in such circumstances? Would they be told not to endanger themselves by going into a burning car? I can't help wondering in light of recent events.

jambutty

08-10-2007 13:14

Re: first aid at school

If, in a rescue situation, you are putting yourself in mortal danger to expedite the rescue then you don’t attempt a rescue. You do not add to the casualties by making yourself one. It is a decision that each potential rescuer has to make for him or herself at the time.

As a qualified lifeguard that I was, I wouldn’t attempt a life saving rescue in a river or lake etc. today because I know I would not be able to carry out the mission successfully and only put myself at risk and would need rescuing myself, thus putting someone else in a dangerous situation.

As I stated before First Aid isn’t just about knowing what to do but also about knowing what NOT TO DO and WHEN NOT TO DO IT.

Mr Aleks

08-10-2007 20:03

Re: first aid at school

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 479199)

If, in a rescue situation, you are putting yourself in mortal danger to expedite the rescue then you don’t attempt a rescue. You do not add to the casualties by making yourself one. It is a decision that each potential rescuer has to make for him or herself at the time.

As a qualified lifeguard that I was, I wouldn’t attempt a life saving rescue in a river or lake etc. today because I know I would not be able to carry out the mission successfully and only put myself at risk and would need rescuing myself, thus putting someone else in a dangerous situation.

As I stated before First Aid isn’t just about knowing what to do but also about knowing what NOT TO DO and WHEN NOT TO DO IT.

Dont believe you. Prove it.

Neil	08-10-2007 21:13

Re: first aid at school

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 479034)

As a certified Lancashire Ambulance First Aider the first thing you do is not to put yourself in danger or else there could be two casualties.

So if a person is in a burning car you have to decide if you will be putting yourself at risk by getting them out.

jambutty

09-10-2007 12:45

Re: first aid at school

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 479363)

I do believe that I stated that in post #19.

But many thanks for reinforcing the point.

WillowTheWhisp

09-10-2007 15:23

Re: first aid at school

So if in the situation where you asked:"If a person is in a burning car and it looks like they might have damaged their neck or back would you leave them to burn or get them out and risk further damage?" my answer was "I would be terrified of the burning car and too much of a coward to try to get them out." would I be sensible for not getting myself into danger or be condemned for not having helped the person who may subsequently have burned to death?

I honestly have no idea what I would do in such a situation because I have never faced it and until I do I don't know how I'd react. I suppose if it was someone I knew and loved then my own fear would be surpassed by my instinct to save them. That's why people try to get back into burning buildings isn't it, and firemen have to hold them back.

Unless it ever happens I won't know, and I sincerely hope it never does happen.

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