Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

I found this interesting so just wondered where you stand on the matter...



Race Hate Probe Over Partys Leaflet (from Lancashire Telegraph)

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

Ive not made the poll votes public as alot of people on here dont seem to want to write what they truely feel.

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

well i aint afraid to write how i feel, i think it was speaking freely

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

Hard to make a true judgement without reading the leaflet. For that reason I won't vote one way or the other.

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

Here is the leaflet...

http://www.efp.org.uk/Election%20Lea...01%20&%202.pdf

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

They are just creating disharmony among people. There are good and bad from every walk of life and as much as I deplore the extremists who have been bombing our country I truly believe they are in the minority. By the same token you have got these people with their extreme views. Neither group is right, we all have to try to live in harmony.

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

A selection of the leaflet I found amusing:

There's ZERO hard facts there, merely childlike/bigoted/idiotic (pick whichever you prefer) views by the UK Nazis.

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

I would be more concerned that Burnley Police's hate crime and diversity unit are being used for political purposes

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

Looks like a load of deranged, ranting rubbish to me. Incidentally, Aleks, why have you got a swastika as an avatar? Are you a nazi..or are you just trying to wind people up as Armistice Day approaches?

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

Didnt think it would be long before someone jumped to conclusions. Why dont you look into what a swastika actually is first mate. You only see the association with nazi germany and not the true meaning of the symbol.

Swastika - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See for your self and only then comment please

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

You may find this bit suitable to your mind...

Because of its use by Hitler and the Nazis and, in modern times, by neo-Nazis and other hate groups, for many people in the West, the swastika is associated primarily with Nazism and white supremacy. Hence, outside historical contexts, it has become taboo in Western countries. The historical context of architectural decorations has sometimes been ignored in local efforts to remove swastikas from pre-World War II buildings.

On the other hand, millions of people of Indian origin live in the West, e.g. including over two million Indian-Americans in the United States, and Jain, Hindu and other Indian religions, festivals, marriages and ceremonies continue to use the swastika as their main religious and cultural symbol.

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

Yes, I'm well aware of the earlier uses of the swastika.

So, I would ask you again...why are you using it as your avatar?...do you follow the Jain or Hindu religions?

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

Do i have to follow a religion to use said symbol? Can i not use the symbol as my avator without people on here concluding im a nazi sympathizer? Using it is merely a test to see how quickly people would react to it with a closed mind focusing only on the Nazi link. You were the first.

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

So you were just trolling then...sad, very sad. :(

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

No. I never baited you into an argumentative response. Again you assuming instead of thinking or asking. Thats the sad bit my friend.

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

You use a swastika as your avatar. You have no religious or cultural reasons for doing this. I assume you have had a modicum of education, so you know the modern day associations that this symbol has. You were being needlessly offensive for the sake of it. Grow up, Aleks.

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

Once again i am not responsible for YOUR assumtions or YOUR associations. Yes i do know how much of the western world sees such a symbol but i doubt alot of them dont know the true meaning of the symbol. They need education.

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

Well, I know the original meaning of the symbol; I also know the contemporary meaning of the symbol; finally, I know exactly why you posted it - to offend people and get a reaction, just like a little boy saying "bum". Congratulations, you succeeded!

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

From the report in the paper, this seems to be the crux of the offence,

'white people are facing the prospect of becoming an ethnic minority in their own land'.

Is it racist? Yes, I suppose because it mentions race as an issue. Is it offensive, and should it face criminal prosecution? No, in my opinion.

I have no time for exteremist politics, but in a democracy I think people should be able to say what they want, but we also have the right to counteract their arguments, which very often don't stand up well under much scrutiny.

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

i posted this story before else where

i was workin with an indian girl at the hotel a few months ago and on the page she'd drawn swastika's all over the page - i knew she'd done it cause of her hindu culture etc but i took the paper to a manager and pretended to be serious saying soemoen had left this race hate paper around and he got into a real lather about it. i bought the situation back down told him who'd done it and why and he left it there. i went to the girl and as she was on work experience from india she had no idea who hitler was who nazi's were or why the swastika was seen as a negative symbol. mis-education and coming from abroad were her valid reasons

whats ur alex apart from ruffling a few feathers?

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

and you need to F'IN grow up ...:mad::mad:...

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

I think this is just a party speaking freely, however, parties like this seem to forget that the british economy strives off foreign goods and so foreign workers in our country can essentially mean that with their hard work our manufactuers can also have the potential to create things just as great.

For example, germany have the brilliant Volkswagen, which is in my opinion and many others, one of the most reliable car manufactuers today.
Then there is the british favourite, fish and chips, which was actually brought to the country by the jews, though many probably do not know it!
Amongst that, on a much sadder note and nothing that should give anyone pride, topshop are hugely successful, and yet their clothes are made by foreigners in china (if im not mistaken) for pityful wages.

My point is, foreigners can, have, and still bring brilliant things to the country, so anyone who believes these parties should be allowed to influence race hate in people is tremendously ridiculous.

On a note of people keep pointing out Aleks swastika avatar, long before the nazi period of german history many countries including great britain had discriminated against the jews and banished them from their country. Both acts involve great humiliation of the jewish race and nobody should be proud to be part of any country that discriminates in any way, even if they were born there.

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

I dont think what you did was a good way to prove a point, and I dont understand quite what the aim of that was, but what I do find sad is that u refer to her as 'mis-educated'.

If she had even been educated on the matter of the nazi's, why should she then feel like she cant draw a religious symbol on a piece of paper for fear of looking like a nazi?

I dont think your example was a very good one, but Aleks has no religious excuse for that swastika, because anyone with knowledge of the swastikas origins would know that the naziswastika was practically ALWAYS at a 45 degree angle, where as in religious they are normally straight and often flipped the other way round.

Theyre used in all sorts of religions, i think universally they signify peace in most of the religions that use them, which clearly is irony when used by the nazis. One religion, raelianism or something like that (not a religion expert) combines the swastika with the star of david, and i think the religion is a cult, though im not too sure what they believe in but something 'out of this world' seems to come to mind.

My favourite period of history is nazi germany, but I researched the swastika as I had seen it on an old image somewhere on the internet (possibly an egyptian one) and thought it must go back alot further than the 1930's.

Aleks is clearly young and I think you should lay off him a little bit. Nazi germany was took off the school syllabus not so long ago and everyone knows that when your young and you see something being taken away from your view you always want to look at it more and find out about it. I'm sure his interest in the subject isn't merely to just annoy everyone.

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

Just a note to you too, just to point something out, not to cause an arguement or anything...

But your signature is born in england, live in england, die in england, which sounds all nice and patriotic, but I think it sort of makes it sound like to be truly patriotic you should never leave the country, and yet u have the poppy as your avatar, which symbolises people who died in the war and actually outside the country does it not? Arent they the most patriotic people of britain, those that died for the country but outside it?

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

Another perfect example of your profound ignorance, The Volksvagen was copied off the Jowet Javellin, a British car manufactured pre 2nd WW some examples are still on the road today. Fish and chips were brought from where? and why specifically the Jews , if you must state examples, give the facts to back them up and stop guessing, by the way the Volkswagen Mk1 was a 'utility' car built without comfort when raw materials were scarce, but hardly a good car, the engines were a bag of crap, but easy to change, compared with Mercedes second only to our Rolls Royce it was on a par with utillity cars and vans we had post war, no upholstry and wooden framed bodies, phased out in the name of progress and not developed like V/W, the modern version of the V/W bears little resemblance to mk1, save the shape, developed by BRITISH JOWET.ps who invented fish and chips?

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

I notice that Smith’s past prison record was mentioned. Just exactly what does it have to do with this particular issue? Nothing at all but it does help to brand the guy a criminal.

I don’t see anything offensive in the leaflet unless you call the truth offensive.

What I do find offensive is that we have Black Police Federation or whatever they call it. Is there a White version? Is there a Jewish version? Is there a Muslim version?

England is going to the dogs and if we are not careful we will all be bowing to the east four or five times a day whilst the minaret’s call to prayers drowns out the TV programme that we want to watch and listen to.

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

The only reference I can find to Jews bringing fish & chips to this Island of ours is wikipedia and they want someone to confirm this FACT for them,

but a lot of other sites claim it was basically due to the industrial revolution.

Below is an interesting link:-

Fish and Chips

P.S. I know this is a thread wander, but what the heck I'm just indulging myself in a bit of free speech! :D

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

Freedom of speech is something that particular 'young lady' seems to take for granted, the very people she seeks to promote would be the first to end it, I wonder if her mouth is big enough to accept the fact that no one knows the true origins of Fish and Chips? I watched a minor film last night, about how the 'Yanks won WW1 and the GIs were complaining they could not get 'Frech Fries. in France so they diddn't invent them, or have I been watching the same 'propaganda' Blazey appears to have been exposed to, "utter garbage".:D.

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

Well you are all wrong!!!

Fish and chips were actually brought into england by Burton's


:D:D

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

And there was me thinking that was a tailors shop:p

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

yep, but they were Jewish tailors (from Leeds) same as John Collier and Weaver to Wearer ;) ;)

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

Apropos nothing much and perhaps thread-wandering for which I apologise, the Jowett Javelin wasn't manufactured until 1947, having been designed around 1944. My dad bought one in 1952 when it was still thought of as a car "ahead of its time".

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

Okay I'll take your word for it;)

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

I hate to spoil anyone’s illusions about the Volkswagen but it had nothing to do with the Jowett Javelin.

The famous Volkswagen Beetle came into being in 1936 - http://www.pre67vw.co.uk/

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

I didn't have any illusions. :D

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

We used to have one in dad's scrap yard it was used as a toilet and rightly so, Ill bow to your greater experience about the origins of the V/W jambutty, just going off what dad told me it was a copy of a Jowet of similar shape, the Javellin was the only model I could think of. I had an uncle who was a prisoner of the 'Japs' he would not have anything Japanese in the house, we forget and forgive far to easily what these tyrants did to our forebears, and in my case my close relatives. The cheeky Japs are seeking compensation from us now, no wonder there are misguided idiots on here being indoctrinated in enemy hugging at public expense in universities.

Re: Race hate or Freedom of speech?
 

"Race" is a tricky issue, and it is one that all countries which can be termed "desirable places to live" are facing. In Canada, everyone apart from the First Nations comes from somewhere else. Yet Canadians are aware (those that think are anyway) that over the decades ... we are too young a country to think in centuries ... a uniquely Canadian culture has grown up. We have reached the point at which Canadian governments are about to make entry into this country as a landed immigrant (one step below citizenship, or, the first step towards citizenship) more difficult, and to argue for a degree of conformity to a loosely defined "Canadianism." In other words, there are certain things a new immigrant would have to give up. For example, the Federal govt. is about to pass a law whose effect would be that Muslim women will have to remove their veils in order to vote in Federal elections. The argument is, and it is one that I agree with, is that all Canadians who vote have to provide the election officials with photo id. In other words, they have to show a "face." This is seen by some as an attack on Islam, by others as a reasonable conformity to the law of the land. As an aside, most Muslim leaders agree that it reasonable and have no problem with women showing their faces to a female election official. The province of Quebec, however, does appear to be taking things a lot farther. They already have laws which require all public signs to be in French only, and laws requiring immigrants to send their children to French-only schools. They wish to protect a unique culture, a large French-speaking enclave in a largely English-speaking country. They don't believe, nor do most Candians, that this is racist. The message seems to be: "Living in Canada is a privelege; fit in or f*** off."