US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

A teenager who shot dead eight people in a US shopping centre before killing himself wrote in a suicide note that he wanted to be famous. Robert Hawkins, 19, from Bellevue, Nebraska, opened fire at the Westroads Mall in Omaha on Wednesday.
A woman who took him in after he left home said he left a note saying he was sorry for everything and did not want to be a burden to anybody.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7130504.stm

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

So much for not being a burden on anyone :rolleyes: couldnt have contradicted himself any greater really.

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

at least the "Pleb" had the decency to shoot himself n save the cost of a trial.

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I wasn't aware that the local Gun Shops had sold this psycho guns illegally. It's then truly an outrage that the said illegally selling shop is not shut down. What exactly was the name of the shop that sold the guns to this guy illegally Bonnyboy?

It's just not right that you guys get this information over there and I haven't heard about this illegal activity as of yet. Stinkin' American media.

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

I think you have taken him the wrong way mate. I think he was suggesting that the guns shops should be shut down.

People over here had this stupid idea about reducing gun crime. They banned all hand guns (except black powder). The result was a massive expense to the taxpayer and gun crime has soared ever since.

I think we should reverse that stupid and pointless idea and revoke that stupid law. There is nothing wrong with hand guns. If some crackpot wants to kill people their is a million ways without using a gun.

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Yeah, I know Neil. Just irks me when people put the blame where it doesn't belong. This kid stole the gun from his Step-father. The "gun shops" had nothing to do with it.

They rarely do. It's more typically people not properly securing their guns.Drives me crazy that these people knew this kid had problems and he still was somehow able to steal a high powered rifle. Now, to me, that is the worst part and is just plain crazy! Just my opinion.

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i know its not the step father's fault but why keep a gun in the same household as someone unstable?

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The kid had supposedly been kicked out of the house and hadn't lived there for awhile. Regardless, you're right Mani, this gun should have been either in parts unknown to the murderer or much better secured (IMO).

Brian

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

guns are too much, part of a way of life in the usa, for my liking, to easily obtainable, wether the fact it should have been secured or not.the fact that they are, is certainly a contributery factor in these tragedys to me.

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

from todays edition of the New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/08/us...qQ&oref=slogin
from what I read the kid had problems , should someome have picked thm up ? . probably , but who ........................

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

Yeah, bonnyboy well said. I apologize for my little tirade aimed at you earlier. It is such a tough issue for this here American. I feel so very sick when this stuff happens. However, I never put the blame on Gun shops who adhere to the law and usually not on those majority of citizens who properly secure their firearms.

First, I would have to say (IMO) most americans do not have or use guns. Most criminals obtain their guns on the blackmarket or by stealing them . . . ya know, just not up for this now . . it's so hard to bring a proper balance to the thought on this issue, especially to people outside the country.

It's just we're not all a bunch of Bubbas, John Waynians, Mafiosos, Gangstas, psycho killers (ques ce se), etc.. I believe the world does not see it this way though!:confused::rolleyes:

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

Yes i realy think that was realy sad,but if he did not turn the gun on him self is life would have been hell and he would have had to live with that for the rest of is life.

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Yeah, but the thing is he wanted to go out in a blaze of glory. Where was the glory in killing and maiming so many perfectly innocent people. If he truly wished a Blaze of Glory death, why not attack a military installation or something. Or better yet, do a "High Noon" scene by letting the local swat team meet him in some far off field for target practice!!!!!

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

Too true. I might add that it was a pity no members of the concealed carry citizenry were close by to cut this mayhem short.

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

It's this "right to bear arms" crap ... a lot like the German kriegslustig. There is no need for it. Lets face it, the Brits are not about to try to take back the colonies, the Canadians have enough violence in hockey, and the Mexicans just want a job. So where's the threat? Grenada maybe seeking revenge? Aliens? Evil Elvis clones? The whole thing would be so bloody ridiculous if it weren't for the fact that so many are dying.

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

Whats the "concealed carry citizenry", I mean I do have a notion of what it/they are but are they some sort of recognised vigilanty group :confused: Or is it just your turn of phrase ?

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

Citizens who have a permit to carry a concealed weapon.......such as myself. In order to legally carry a sidearm, I had to apply to my county courthouse, was fingerprinted by the sheriff's department and subjected to a criminal and phychological background check.

Since my first post on this thread, I found out that the Mall in question banned all guns from its premises and had many signs posted to remind shoppers of this ban. Obviously, this did not deter the perp. Only we law-abiding citizens pay attention to these things.

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

out of interest... for what reasons would you get this permit?

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Thanks for explaining that bullseyebarb :)

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Thing is hon, if everyone were like you there would not be a problem. In fact, there would be no need to carry concealed weapons. But there are lots of loonies out there, and I don't mean the Canadian dollar, and too many guns. All my guns are legal too. But, according to our laws, I am not allowed to carry a handgun. This is not a problem, because there is no need in my community. In Kingston the police carry handguns, and there are lots of weapons at CFB/BFC Kingston, but citizens walk around unarmed, and are quite content to do so.

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

What absolute bull. First and foremost, an armed citizenry is a bullwark against tyrannical government. Plus, the right to self-defense is inherent. That is the way the American Founders saw it - and they were quite correct in this. History is peppered with examples of their wisdom in this matter.

Never trust a government which does not trust you and wishes to make you weak and dependent.

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

a) Because I can.

b) Because I am a charter member of the Second Amendment Sisters.

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

What is this "tyrannical govt." thing ... I was under the impression that the US govt. gets to be govt. in the same way as ours and the British govt. I know we will never agree on this issue, but the continued arguments about it show, if anything, how the fascination Americans have for going about their communities armed to the teeth is confusing to so many who also live in democratic societies.

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

noo, i didnt mean why would you want it.. i meant legally, what reasons would you give to get it from the government?

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Should the democratic process be infringed and the power of the ballot box be made null. I know it is hard for you and others to understand why Americans march to the beat of a different drummer.....but this is what makes us so unique in the world.

There are always assaults on freedom - even here. It would be foolish to assume that life as we know and love it will continue on without our constant vigilance.

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I can keep guns in my home or car without a permit. However, if I want to carry a concealed weapon on my person in a public place, the law in my state requires that I have a permit to do so.

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I have mine for varmit control , lots of rattlesnakes at my workplace , they like to hide in the shade under stacks of steelpipe , keep it loaded with snake-shot , although I tend to disagree with Bullseyebarb I can understand her logic and defend her right to have/own personnel protection , one thing to remember , in the US lots of people live in areas where the police response time is more than a 5 minute call away .
Just another point , you have to remember the US is made up of 50 different States with 50 different sets of Laws , just like the EU , where the laws in UK are different to the ones in the Greece or Poland, the Laws in California are different to the ones in Texas, Wyoming or New York .
Having said that , I do think California law needs more enforcement for the illegal possesion and use of firearms , but its not my place to comment on what the citizens of Georgia or any other State vote to allow as legal or not . ;)

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

thats what i meant willow... lol

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Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

Not here in Georgia. Other states vary.

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

Just a curious question how many "massacres" have there been in the UK since gun control?

Now we will get the argument from libertarian Americans that "guns don't kill, people do" hmm if you have stricter control over guns then less people have them so tyhe possibility of a nutter/sicko getting hold of them diminishes.

Less guns = less people killed GET THE MESSAGE AMERICA.

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

So you just go to the powers that be and say you want permission to carry a gun?..........Yes, in my State, they do a background check and you wait the required 14 days ( to ensure its not a spur of the moment thing , you want to commit suicide or you have had a row with the wife ), note, the right to own a gun does not give you the right to carry it around in your handbag or hidden away , for that you need a concealed weapons permit , something quite different and much more difficult to obtain in California

Do you have to give them a reason why?.....No

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

A brilliant **** take of the argument

YouTube - Goldie Lookin Chain - Guns don't kill people

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

14 days doesnt seem long enough to wait....

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Considering the weather in California, and the fact that people can walk around almost naked where could you conceal a gun on your person other than shoving it where the sun don't shine:D:D:D

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

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I think the same argument could also be used for drunk driving which kills and maims thousands every year ..... I suppose you agree with the premise that it would be a good idea to ban both the production and sale of alcohol and use of motor vehicles since when combined they kill and maim thousands every year . ergo ....No alcohol + No motor cars = no deaths and maiming .
Maybe the answer is to have every cars ignition system hooked up to a breathalyser, great idea , until drunken Mum or Dad get little Wayne or Shane to start the car for them and put them in the backseat while they drive on to the next pub . Maybe its a good idea that no place selling alcohol should have a car-park , an obvious first step to cut down on drunk driving

No Alcohol + No Cars = no drunk driving deaths
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

Either you are clutching at straws here or being a little Swiftian with your modest proposals. We are not discussing impaired driving, we are not accusing Rotten Ronnie with plugging the arteries of the nation and causing obesity in children, or any of the other arguments Americans drag out to support their love of the firearm. Most countries in the world accept some measure of controls over their freedoms: the "freedom" to smoke cigs wherever they want, the "freedom" to ride without a helmet, the "freedom" to drive without a seat belt while talking on a cell phone. But when it comes to guns Americans throw up the barricades. They cry "bill of rights" to defend their incomprehensible love of the firearm. Some use firearms to kill abortionists: that's like exercising your right to bear arms in order to deny someone's right to an abortion. When the city of Detroit has more murders per annum than the whole of the British isles something is wrong. When drive by shootings become a pastime for youth, something is wrong. Sure, other western nations have their shooting spree massacres. Canada had one about 18 years ago when Marc Lepine shot 14 female engineering students at the Ecole Polytechnique in Montreal ... but in the US it's becoming a regular occurrence ... if it weren't so tragic, it would be laughable.

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Swiftian :D :D

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Thank god:D:D:D By the way, a fried of mine who visted La la land ... L. A. to be exact ... brought me back a couple of cute bumper stickers: "Cover me, I'm changing lanes," and "Keep waving your finger, I'm reloading.":rolleyes:

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

This is a massacre: École Polytechnique massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

Its bloody freezing in San Diego right now. Its like 60f - it even had the temerity to rain yesterday. Anyway, as a 17 year Californian born in Accrington, I now strongly believe in the rights for the common man to own and carry a gun. When I first came, I believed that society had too many guns in it. I can't see the need for owning an AK47 at home, and if you do you should have to keep it locked up in a safe for the day you want to go fight the Governement (that bit I believe is an antiquated argument). I believe that the second amendment ----

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

meant "the people" as a whole, as opposed to "the people" as individuals. I believe the Supreme Court is going to pass a ruling on that in the near future. That being said, society here has progressed to such levels of violence that I keep a 9mm in my house with a trigger lock so that no-one that shouldn't be using it can. Break into my house when I am home at your peril. People should be allowed to defend themselves as banning guns will have the same result as banning cocaine, and marijuana, and heroin. Law abiding folk won't have the protection that they need when someone on heroin breaks into their house, with a stolen gun and will do anything for their next fix. If that guy breaks into my house, he won't get his next fix.

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

I think that you should be questioning why your society has reached "such levels of violence". I live on the same continent as you do. And I have never felt the need to arm myself against my fellow citizens.

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

The main flaw in your argument is that cars are produced primarily for transport, alcohol was produced (in Europe anyway) as a way of preventing infection through dodgy water. Since then it has been used as a legal drug for pleasure.

A gun's only function is to kill.

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

So hundreds of innocents die because nutters can get guns so you can keep a gun IN CASE someone attacks you?

Yes the strength of your argument is overwhelming:rolleyes:.

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Dunblane & Hungerford to name 2 not including Ulster.

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Oh and thanks for the negative Karma. "Bite Me" so mature.

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If you live in a society where you feel the need to arm yourself for protection, you are facing problems much more serious than the question of your right to bear arms. Ah well, when you are up to your ass in alligators, it is hard to remind yourself you were sent to drain the swamp.

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

I keep my gun to protect myself from the nutters. The nutters generally have acquired guns illegally. Legislation to control who owns a gun is extensive. Except nutters and criminals simply don't bother.

I live 2 miles from Mexico. On the offramp from my freeway there is the follwing sign.

http://www.spraguephoto.com/stock/im...co/05mx066.jpg


I wouldn't cross the border right now for fear of being shot. As violent a place as the US is, Mexico, and particularly the border region including Tijuana, really is the wild west. The drug lords run the place, and pandemic lawlessness with murders, kidnappings and armed robbery becoming a daily occurance - and thats by the Police. My wife is from Mexico and we used to love to cross the border for dinner and enjoying the nightlife. Never again.

Banning guns isn't the answer. Eric lives in a significantly less violent place, but your argument about "living on the same continent, holds as much water as trying to compare Accrington with Ankara - on the same continent - and completely different.

That being said, I don't like the gun culture. Banning them simply leaves them in the hands of criminals. Hundreds of innocents will still die whether I can have my gun or not. I just want to make sure that when it comes around to my time (I have had a gun in the back of my head in 1995 in a robbery - that changed my opinion a lot) I have a fighting chance. I would love to change the culture, but that's not going to happen in my lifetime. And at the end of the day, I love San Diego, its now 80F and sunny. That makes life a lot easier to deal with. I haven't had to use a gun in 10 years, and I hope I never have to. And Im nuts enough to come to Accrington on Monday for 3 weeks for Christmas.

Re: US teen kills 8 people to be famous....
 

Accrington and Ankara is a nice alliteration ... but I live only 10 klicks from New York State ... Buffalo is only a short drive away. And Canadians own large numbers of guns, but the only creatures who oppose this are deer, ducks et al. We have nutters of our own .... Robert Pickton has just been convicted of six counts of murdering hookers in Vancouver and there are still at least 20 charges pending. It is just that we rely on the police and the law to protect us. Plus the fact that we are by law prohibited from owning hand guns and assault rifles, which I don't think is a bad thing.

That said, I sincerely hope that you enjoy your Christmas back home. 80 degrees and sunny, eh. We have the sun, but tonight we will be down to -20 celsius. Maybe it's that fact that keeps the nutters at home.