Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

In america u get the politicians coming out sayin i'm a god fearing catholic/protestant/mormon etc and they love the Google Page Ranking shots of them coming out of church and love the fact that people of a similar religious banding will vote for them goin as far as saying this was the answer god gave to me

yet in UK aside from a public funeral or christmas you rarely see any political figure talking about their religious choices etc

recently tony blair came out sayin that if people come out if he came out with his religious choices he'd b see as a some sort of loony

so why does it play a major part in american politics and not in british?

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

If it played less of a part in state issues, the world wouldn't be half as bonkers.

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

In the US there is a large constituency that actually believes in jesus ... sorry JESUS ... and take the bible literally. And they vote. And they vote in large numbers. And they usually vote right wing. Without them people like Bush and Reagan would not get elected. You can usually identify these people by their bumper stickers, and can find them at WWE events and monster truck races. But the point is that they vote, and any politician ignores them at his peril. On the other hand, there is a large constituency that wants to maintain the separation of church and state. Perhaps fundamentalist christianity is the Great Divide in American politics. For reasons that someone else might want to explain, this extremism in christianity does not seem to have affected the politics of other western nations ... altho' birth control and abortion are still vitally important concerns in countries such as Ireland and Portugal. Perhaps politicians in say, England, and those who vote for them still hold to the idea that a person's religion is his own concern, part of his private life.

It's a complex issue ... but I do think it ironic that many in the US condemn Islamic extremist states while promoting a fundamentalist Christian America. Not that I believe either is right.

(I wonder why Dylan Thoma's "two gunned Gabriel" comes to mind:confused:)

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

because if we talk about our religion in our country we are classed as racist and the pc doo gooders stick their oink in where it isnt needed..

hmmmmmmm does that sound racist :confused:

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

But it seems that in America it is not just religion, but all the other stuff that goes along with it. I know I'm treading not too carefully thro' a mine field of generalizations, but one can say that the American CHRISTIAN voter will support the military and any war the country is involved in (and I don't think this is the same as supporting the troops, in the sense that one can and should do this without necessarily supporting a particular military adventure), oppose abortion, gay marriage, health care, gun control. And, of course, be a firm believer in Manifest Destiny, General Motors, and the almost divinity of Elvis.

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

I wouldn't vote for anyone who appeared to be a religious fanatic.
Political decisions need to be taken with the interests of all the population, without any hint of bias towards any religious group.

Tony Blair kept his avid catholicism secret - perhaps just as well he did - he might not have won the election otherwise

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

Our country has a history of religious persecutions, led by monarchs and governments.
So we do not want to ever risk that again.
Politics and religion should kept strictly apart.

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

I seem to remember reading something about this a while ago, from memory around 85% of americans consider themselves religious or have faith - the largest group being born-again or evangelist type Christians, it's a big business over there, TV channels, Billy Graham type Conventions, Christian Rock Festivals etc.

Whereas in the UK the figure is only about 15%, churches are being closed down due to low attendances and not enough funding. With such a low percentage of religious people - would it be worth campaigning for the minority vote?

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

agree totally, politics n religion should NEVER be mixed,both are ok in there own sphere. differant religions have been persecuted over the centuries,by so-called leaders. its like mixing rovers n burnley.:rolleyes: a big NO-NO.

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

But in certain parts of the US, it does verge on fanaticism. If an American, in certain parts of the country, asks you if you are a Christian or tell you that he is a Christian, he is not referring to C of E or Catholicism, but good ole, down home bible thumping fundamentalism, faith healing, speaking in tongues and all that good stuff. And it is this kind of christianity that spreads out into family values etc. Many American politicians, prey on these people and their beliefs, which are probably deeply felt, in order to get elected. The whole issue does tend to introduce a lot of ironies into American politics; for example, in the last Presidential election, voters chose as a war leader a Viet Nam no-show over a real decorated hero.:confused:

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

Maybe religion doesn't play as large a role in UK politics because the fundamentalist constituency isn't large enough for the politicians to exploit ... or prey on.

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

think thats pretty accurate, cos if it did,the vultures would sure as hell be out in force.;)

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

Because religious fundamentalism (be it Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Sikhism or whatever (even Jedi) is a vile thing to see.

In America Christianity is seen by extremists as an excuse to murder half the population and blow up, shoot or execute anyone with a different opinion. (see pro life boards).

In the East Islam is seen by extremists as an excuse to murder, blow up or execute anyone with a different opinion.

In India Hinduism is seen as an excuse (do we see a pattern emerging here).

Marx (Karl that is not Groucho) was right, religion is the opium of the masses.

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

Religion does play a big part of political American life , but in ways completly unfathomable to Europeans , example Good Friday , one of the most important dates in the Christian calender is totally unrecognised here in California ,even though we have big Catholic population ,(private empoyeers are obliged to allow 2hrs without pay for anyone who wants to attend Mass) though I think maybe in Massachussetts it is a State holiday but nowhere else , just a normal day everyone goes to work .
We have one guy running for President , Mitt Romney , hes a Mormon (4th largest religious group in the US) and the media are now starting to stir things up a bit by calling it a 'sect', a couple of hit pieces have called for him to explain the Mormon belief that the original 'garden of eden' was in Illinos , not the middle-east and that Native Americans are one of the lost tribes of Israel !!
Think it was the 2000 election when Al Gore lost to George Bush , and the guy running for vice-president with Gore was a guy called Joe Lieberman , the election was close , but in my opinion Gore would have won easily but for the folks who balked at having a jewish guy only one bullet away from having the top job , the same i think will happen this time if Barrack Obama runs for vice-presidential spot .
I think the political power of the fundamentalists, evilgelicals and re-borns is ovestated ,just a vocal minority who manage to get TV news time, most folks I know just want to get along with each other .

think Bullseyebarb or LYY when the log-on will be able to give more lucid answers :D :D

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

you forgot dancing with rattlesnakes :D :D

Yep , Have agree with you , whenever the good ole bubbas ask me what I am , I say Anglican .......it usually causes a blank look but gets them to leave me alone , it's just a way of being friendly and one thing is for sure the Bubbas and Bubbettes sure came together and helped each other out after Katrina hit .:D :D

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

There seem to be so many confusions ... People still talk of Kennedy's catholicism, and he is the only catholic, I believe, to have been President. Is Lieberman the only jew to have been on the ticket? I know the VP is only one bullet away from the top job ... but it wouldn't take a full clip to put Con Rice in the Oval Office, and this doesn't seem to bother too many Americans. In fact, I do believe, that she is the most popular member of the cabinet.:confused:

But I come from a country where which hockey team a politician supports can be a hot issue:D:eek::D

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

Do they really believe that?...incredible!...and what a frightening thought that somebody who believes that load of old cobblers could be in charge of the most powerful nation on earth! :eek:

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

sorry not Illinos , but Independance, Jackson county Missouri
Basic Beliefs of Mormons - Category: The Garden of Eden ;)

the Native American link has been debunked by DNA testing
Book Review - Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA, and the Mormon Church, by Simon G. Southerton ;)

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

Thanks for that, SJ...interesting stuff. Just wait until next time they come knocking on my door on a Sunday morning! ;)

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

Steeljack, I wouldn't even know where to start. Was gonna start responding to the first of Eric's major generalizations. However, they just kept coming and coming. There were so many odd misinterepretations/errors/views on American religious thought and function, I truly wouldn't know where to start.

Seriously, the generalizations were too numerous to address one by one. Not trying to slam you Eric but you've gotta lay off smoking that moose "stuff." It'd be like me trying to speak on the idea that in Canada, hockey is just another sport like baseball, American football (go Argonauts), or hop scotch. Or that French and English go together like moonshine and hillbillies!

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

ok i'm sure alot of u guys voted blair the very first time round - so this question is aimed at them

if back then he came out and said openly i'm a catholic i'm a firm believer of god, the bible and its beliefs - would it have affected ur vote?

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

If I was a Blair voter, that would have definitely put me off. I don't care for politicians parading their religion in public. Must say I'm glad that we don't have a lot of Christian fundamentalist politicians in this country, though. The thought of someone loopy enough to take the bible literally making decisions on the running of the country makes me shudder!

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

If you guys wouldn't make your politics so complicated one wouldn't have to generalize .... :D And the Argos???? The real team is the Saskatchewan Roughriders .... :not_ripe:

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

The one really good reason why non-Americans should concern themselves with US politics and the sociology that surrounds it, is that America has most of the best nuclear toys, and the guy (or gal) in the White House has the ultimate say in whether these things are fired or not ... and spare the argument about safeguards and security measures; "unsinkable" didn't keep the Titanic afloat. I don't think that personal faith should be an issue when the future of the planet is at stake. I wouldn't trust the bomb in the hands of extreme Islam, why should I trust it in the hands of extreme Christianity?

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

Personally I don't think religion should play an obvious place in public life, especially Governments - after all religion has been known to cause one or two wars during history.

Anyway, why would our "public employees" want to bother with religion when they have their Masonic Lodges.

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

We have a secular society in the UK which in itself explains why religion doesn't play a big part.

I think one of Karl Marx's only good points are that religion is bad.

I think theres a line to be had between /beliefs influencing politicians moral values and God "Told me to invade Iraq"

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

The thing is (IMO), I don't think America is in anywhere close to being full of extreme Christians and certainly not Fundamentalists. I mean I grew up in a Fundamental Baptist church in Rhode Island and I'm now in the home base of the Southern Baptists. However, neither I our very many people even around adhere to this radical view.

Sure, most Americans claim to believe in a God and call themselves Christians. But they certainly don't practice what they preach. Heck, in the last few elections, less than 40% of Born-Again Christians even bothered to vote!

Also, on any given Sunday morning, less than 30% of Americans are worshiping in any type of church, temple, or syngogue. Where do all the ruling fundamentalists fit into these numbers?

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

Currently, 26 Lords Spiritual, sit in the house of Lords and are able to vote on legislation affecting all of us and the way in which we lead our lives.

These men, all of them unelected, are representatives of the Church of England. Add to this the clergy of other faith groups (the Chief Rabbi, Methodists etc.) elevated to the House of Lords as Lords Temporal and there are quite a few more; oddly there are no Roman Catholics though.

It may dismay some to learn that the Lords Spiritual were among the fiercest opponents of extending the franchise to Women, and that their current number also sit on the Synod of the Church of England which is unable to decide to what extent the sin of being homosexual disbars a person from being able to enjoy the rights and privileges taken for granted by the rest of society.

I find it strange and ironic that the adherants of a faith whose central tennet is freedom of will are among the most proscriptive, repressed and repressive people in our society.

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

I don't think there's any thing deep in the reason why religion is never used as a selling point in politics - i just think there are so many religions in England and no real dominant one (I know the main faith is supposed to be CofE but let's face it, their power is dwindling) and there are so few people who actually bother to vote that if a politician were to overly side with any faith they could easily alienate about 80% of the voting population.

Having said that though, I think religion does play a big part in politics in general i.e. abortion laws, homosexual laws etc - the churches have had opinions in these and politicians are very aware of those opinions when stating their own policies.

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

How do you know this LYY.. do you have to state which religion you are when you vote ? Or are polls carried out separately, in which case, the fact that someone bothers may show a fear of a leaning to a link between politics and religion.

Of course, there is always some sort of link, as in the way we are brought up and standards of behaviour. To me, anyone who believes in The Garden of Eden is a bit doo-lally anyway, but as long as they are a good, hardworking politician with the public's best interest at heart, and not too extreme a view of one of their beliefs, which could be 'pushed' (i.e. Jehovah's Witnesses view on blood donations) then they will get my vote.

If ever we have a ruling majority with Muslim leaders .. that's when I think we may be in for a change. As it stands at the present, I don't think any law will get through based just on one body's religious beliefs, and not for the good of the whole.

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

Couldn't agree more, my friend. It's just more of the mythology of America which appears with great frequency.

Unlike England, the U.S. has no state religion. One may have faith or not. Freedom of religion is very important here. The American Founders generally viewed religion as the source of morality and a necessary spring of popular government. However, they wanted no laws establishing same. Personally, I am more interested in how a politician lives his life than what his religious affiliation might be.

As to Eric.....apparently, he is unaware that there are plenty of left-wing Christian groups.....who vote accordingly.

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

There is a group of religious left wingers right here in Kingston, holding vigils for peace, and praying for a better deal for the poor. They are called the Sisters of Providence of St. Vincent de Paul. They also operate a hospital, teen drop in centers, and a detox service. Dangerous people those sisters. Probably under RCMP surveillance.

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

Christianity is actually a socialist religion, see the beatitudes, Jesus's statements on money, (eg it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle etc).

However aside from that just name me one left wing televangelistic preacher to compare with (I think his name is) Jerry Falwell.

Left wing Christian groups in the US don't make me laugh. Televangelism is ruled by the right wing pro life pro hanging/capital punishment (surely that has to be a contradiction) brigade.

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

May we be reminded that the so called 'freedom of religion' (in itself a huge lie, in my opinion) in America has produced such things as the Jonestown Massacre, Charles Manson's cult, child indoctrinating 'Jesus Camps', and the KKK. Cults and extremism are encouraged in America, due to their wrongly titled 'freedom of religion'.
I personally couldn't think of a more horrid place to live; where religious beliefs mix dangerously with politics and business to catastrophical effects.

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

I was unsure about which thread to post this link , gun control or religion ....so here goes ..How about having a "unborn Baby (holding a machine gun) Christmas tree ornament" ...complete with a yellow ribbon to show support for the troops
MissPoppy.com | - Unborn Baby Ornament - US Troop Model

no offense meant or intended towards anyone ;) ;)

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

this British News clip goes a long way in explaining why most of the educated world thinks Americans are nutters when it comes to religion
YouTube - creationist museum

got to laugh at the quip about the fintstones near the end :D :D

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

According to an article I read in The Times, the majority of US Christians think that Mormon is a cult.

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

Cute ... but I don't think that something which has to state outright that it is a satire, is much of a satire. Personally, I liked the Nuke the Gay Whales bumper sticker. Also enjoyed for different and more serious reasons, Search for the Wrong-Eyed Jesus.

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

It's a film
http://movies.nytimes.com/2005/07/13/movies/13sear.html

googling again

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

Just been talking to 'ones grandpapa' and he has informed me that any ordained C of E vicar can do the registration (legal side) of weddings anywhere,but others cant eg methodist.

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

Re: Why doesnt religion play a bigger part in UK politics?
 

And the soundtrack is great:Banane25: