Hyndburn Masterplan
 

Where is it?

Looked on hyndburn councils website - all i can find is the advert.Accrington Town Centre Masterplan Consultation Advert
and this one Accrington Town Centre masterplan goes on display
Looked on URBED - all i can find on that is the project. Urban Regeneration and Masterplanning Consultants – URBED, Manchester UK

So where is this masterplan

By the way on the advert it says you can find more information on the website but all you find is the advert.:rolleyes:

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Been to look at it this afternoon Shillelagh. Just a lot to take in all at once to offer any comments.

They had run out of print-outs of the posters on the wall showing 5 different options, and the form I have brought away with me asked you to vote on these or suggest other options. It will be for up for perusal on Urbed's website on Monday so will be able to view them at leisure.

Getting lots of earache from the Public re. controversial subjects at the moment e.g. Tesco of course, and in particular the suggestion to site the bus station on Crawshaw Street ... think comments were 'too far away' !! Huh ! can't get much nearer in my opinion. Naturally, was mostly, like myself, senior citizens who were tending to look back and wanting to bring it back to the way it was:rolleyes: Hope some younger people will offer their comments tomorrow.

Worth a look if you are in the Arndale tomorrow .. has been lots of interest which is good.

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Is this the master plan where they are on about opening some old roads?

As in the Bottom of Burnley road, in front of the market hall, abbey street to name a few?

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Havent been down town today will go down tomorrow to have a nosy and see what theyre planning. Dont think much of them moving the bus station to the back of what was kwik save though. Can you imagine buses getting in and out of there? They have enough hassles where it is now and its an open road!!!

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I am in town all day tomorrow so will pop by and have a look.

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I am sure that the plan also includes transport planning too Shillelagh to allow for this.. like I say .. difficult to take in whilst you are there.

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Five options for you to vote (or comment) on .. they are obliged to do this .. Option 5 being the preferred option if you can understand.

I don't quite understand as yet .. but will certainly take a look at their website Monday.
They may have some more copies tomorrow ..in the Arndale this time.
They said more interest than expected.

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so your saying its gonna take 15 years to do?:eek:

my god ill be 51....:eek:

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Rome wasn't built in a day - pity what we will get won't bear any resemblance

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at least you'll get a free bus pass:rolleyes::p:tongueout

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stop bitching, i'll probably have croaked.:rofl38:

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Only a chicken then......I'll be 75, if I live that long!

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Just gotta' reserve judgement folks, and look at the Options .. then have your say.Then you 'musn't grumble' if not too happy at the end of the day.

At least it is an attempt to make the town a better place. What you forget is that Accrington is not all that big compared with other towns you have mentioned on here, and as I have expressed before, a matter of keeping our residents here, rather than shopping/socialising elsewhere initially.

Again, of course, Urbed will have made plans to keep a good traffic flow for the proposed new Bus Station site !

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Thought accy had all just been done up .
Now they wanna dig it all up again and start over #???????
Someone down there must have a very boring job and access to a lot of public funding thats all i can say .

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Well I went and had a look today and to be honest, I thought most of the plans, good though they were, weren't controversial in the least. They were mostly sensible solutions for the town and all seem to be achievable.

I guess the biggest discussion point will be the bus station. Once I understood the drawings I think it's an inspired choice of positioning. Whilst I was there some people were giving the consultants a hard time, these people were grumbling about the bus station and saying that it could never work there because of congestion. The main idea behind this plan is that the whole road system would be completely changed as well so would alleviate congestion.

If this is to work it has to be embraced and gone for, the only way to make real change is if it's completed wholeheartedly. If it's done in a half arsed way or if it starts to get diluted then it will probably fail. The vision needs to be followed through and not turned into a hotch potch of ideas.

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Looked good to me too Gayle; though I fail to see what value there is in extending the Arndale to build bigger, newer units when we can 't fill the existing ones.
Rest of it looks promising and well thought out; esp the proposed removal/revamp of the butt ugly council building on Broadway.

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The area at the back of kiwk save is not big enough to swing a cat round never mind a double decker bus.

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Sadly I haven't managed to see it, but if the plans do include revamping that hated blue and white monstosity of a council building on Broadway, I'm all for it.:)

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It's a deceptively big space. But also it involves removing the roundabout and replacing the road system which will also create more space. It's the most dramatic part of the plan but I think that a dramatic plan is what's needed here. I think it's been proven time after time that if you go for the 'diluted' version you get the lame improvements that we've had before - the last rejig of the bus station and broadway to name but two examples.

Garinda, the plans will be at the Town Hall for a few days from Monday, I urge everyone to go and visit them and put their opinions in.

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No, but just because the railway viaduct goes through the current roundabout doesn't mean to say that the roundabout can't be removed! I think the viaduct was there long before the roundabout and will no doubt be there long after as well.

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The plans for the railway viaduct roundabout are the best bit in my opinion; it will make it a real feature; it's worth having a look at this stuff; as has been said before , it's no good grumbling about it afterwards when you have been asked for your opinion beforehand.

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Good. I shall hopefully get to see them on Tuesday.:)

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I don't know how long they're staying at the town hall, so if they've moved on, they're going to the library after that.

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Please go and see them for yourself.

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No need for that Gayle, is this what everyone is looking for


http://www.urbed.coop/journal_docs/S...0July%2007.pdf

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Presume they had no copies then of the posters Gayle for you to take away?
Hopefully, they will be on their web-site Monday then.

Another little aside is that .. do you remember last year when the students of the University of Sheffield did a project on regeneration of Accrington, there has now been a book published by Elevate East Lancashire on their findings called 'This would never happen in Accrington .. or could it ?'

Urbed have acknowledge this work on their site:-

Urban Regeneration and Masterplanning Consultants – URBED, Manchester UK

and the Urbed employee I spoke to said they did use some of their ideas.

Let's hope the positive attitude will be 'or could it?

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No, this is just the feedback from the workshops held in July. The plans have now been drawn up and are being presented to us - these are the ones that people should go and see.

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Is this part of HBC's Materplan as well.

Council To Run Neighbours Leisure Services (from Lancashire Telegraph)

or is it the begining of the end for HBC

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This was covered in this thread.


http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...urn-36444.html

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I have read quite a lot of that link, and did notice that 'a bandstand' in the town centre was mentioned as desirable ;)

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Sorry about that :D

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The reason why I raised this in this thread -
Not long ago we discussed the Oakhill Park bandstand.
To rebuild or not to rebuild etc., now that the council has got the insurance payout.
Most folks wanted a rebuild in the park, which I believe is now decided.

I suggested rebuild in town centre- looks like these planners have the same idea - outdoor entertainment venues are mentioned.

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Was discussing this subject last night over dinner with a member of our party who works in a shop the bottom of Peel Street. Obviously, the bus station came up .. she showed 'concern' as to the removal of the Bus Station to Crawshaw Street, commented on the distance it was away from her premises.

Said 'everything seems to be moving to the other end of town'. Never used this expression before as never considered Accrington town centre big enough to have 'another end'. The move would not be more than 300 yards (approx?) away.. :D

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Sorry Park .. don't think I made this clear enough, was not her having to walk further to the bus, the issue seemed to be that they would lose custom due to the fact that the bus station was not on their doorstep anymore, and that the council were concentrating on that side of town more.

Couldn't just comment much, as didn't take in what the suggestions were for what would replace this site . think just pedestrian .. but will have to wait until I can get hold of copies.

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Same difference though, at least whilst the bus station is on Peel st it's central to the shops and market. I know the bus station is far from ideal as it is, but I agree with Mick not sure that crawshaw st is the answer.

As Gayle stated I will have to go and have a good look at the plans.

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In the past oppostion councillors tried to say that Peter Britcliffe had a conflict of interests, in regards to the siting of the bus station.

If I recall rightly, in this case the complaint wasn't upheld.

Leader in bus station probe

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Yes, he did recently say in the press, regarding this new plan, that the proposed site of the new bus stop isn't his preferred choice...which makes me think it must be just the right place for it.:D

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Graham Jones also half-mentioned this in a recent thread Garinda, albeit was about the Con:-

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...tml#post519903

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This makes interesting reading, how will the "Spot on" 40ft long buses get in to our proposed new bus station if they can't get round a new housing estate.

"The buses are only planned for the main road" What a laugh :D

"Midi size" buses only in Hyndburn please :rolleyes:


Transport Companys Change Of Name (from Lancashire Telegraph)

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Reserve judgement Park ... only fair.

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i wonder how much taxpayers money has already been wasted on this ie consultancy fees n all that.wonder if the consultant contracts and survey contracts were put out to tender:rolleyes::confused:

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Yes, of course, was put out to tender cmon ! Don't be silly. :rolleyes:

My son's company was in the last 6, but lost it to Urbed at the end of the day, and, yes, the fee is substantial, but what do you expect !! .. have to pay for specialised consultancy .. did you expect that Peter Britcliffe would draw up the regeneration options ?? :p

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urbed look impressive actuallyAttachment 10702lets hope they dont use this:D

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In cases like this are the chosen consultants or contractors not referred to as the Preferred Partner or Developer, so was the project tendered in the normal way with HBC providing a specification or design brief so that all tenderers were working on a level playing field

Does that mean that if your son's company had been chosen the fees would have been greater than HBC are paying Urbed ?

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Has anyone seen this master plan yet????

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Think you will find it here

http://www.urbed.coop/journal_docs/Boards%20part1.pdf

and here

http://www.urbed.coop/journal_docs/Boards%20part2.pdf

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Well having looked at the preferred option on the Urbed website, I would still ask the question, how are the 40ft buses going to access and turn round in the proposed new bus station, never mind running to timetables. Also noted that the station is to be an 8 stand interchange/terminal
Worth noting that Clitheroe are also blessed with an 8 stand interchange/terminal.

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Thanks for that mate. There's a lot to consider there.

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SORRY, COME IN ON THIS ONE A BIT LATE IN THE DAY.

HAS ANYONE POSTED THIS:-

Paul Butler Associates Draft


ATARAH

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Thanks for the link Atarah. I did call into the Town Hall today to view the plans. I will look at this link as well, then give my views.

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Thanks for that atarah, looks like another set of fees paid for by us residents

Wonder if that was tendered as well :D

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Thanks Atarah for the Paul Butler Assocs. link, it helps to make sense of the rest of the plan.

For once, I find myself in the rather unfamiliar position of having to congratulate the council for having the sense to commission the two reports, particularly the Paul Butler report. Which appears to follow what most of us have been saying for quite some time now; especially regarding the eysore at the back of the Town Hall. One slight quibble; the report's authors are quite keen on the image of St. James's Churchyard with railings. I can recall the churchyard before the gravestones were taken up and I do not recall it possessing railings or the vacant fixings for them. It had high-ish stone walls, as I am sure photographs from the late 50's early 60's will comfirm.

Like Willow I found myself somewhere between options 3 and 4 on the masterplan. My only real concern is that, having raised our expectations, the council will cherry pick from the plan and what we will end up with is the usual mish-mash of half implemented plans and schemes that contradict each other. Either that or they will take so long to implement it all enthusiasm and interest will have gone the same way as the Market revenues.

Marks out of ten? A cautious Seven

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It's a 15 year plan, so it may take a while to get there.

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So what did you make of it Gayle?

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I sort of answered that in post #17 A-B. But to reiterate - I like it and filled in my forms accordingly.

What I most like about it is that it isn't just a tweak here and a tweak there, it is a wholesale redevelopment of the whole town. I think it's been proven before (Broadway springs to mind) that when they tinker with things they go pearshaped.

By being bold and putting out a 15 year plan, I think it could work.

Also, it's good that they won't be able to deviate from it if it's accepted now. It is a vision and hopefully will be carried out.

There are a few things I'm still curious about but I'm sure we'll find out in the goodness of time. Where the money is coming from will be interesting and who the actual developers are - one thing I hope doesn't happen is that they take on the people who give them the lowest quote for everything - if this bold idea is to be effective it also has to have quality as ell.

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Wonder when we're going to get a masterplan for Ossy?

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Good grief I am agreeing with you too. There must be something wrong with my medication - NURSE!

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On the issue of funding I noticed that North West Development Agency had their Logo appended to the bottom of the online version, or does that just mean that they helped with funding the report?

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Well, I managed to get to the Town Hall, to view the plans myself.

I think they are very exciting, and I applaud the fact that they are open to public consultation, before the go ahead is hopefully given.

My only criticism is that the prefered option, and some of the others, will mean the demise of the hated blue and white building on Broadway. Hurrah, I say to that, but it does mean the recent refurbishment of Broadway, and it's cost of £400,000, will have been a complete waste of money.

I filled in the questionaire, and look forward to e-mailed updates as to the progress of the regeneration.

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I thought the prefferred option of 3 -4 was the best and agree that providing it is undertaken by quality developerd it will be good.
I agree with Garinda, about the demoliton of the 'tasteless' Town Hall extension, but also feel that the money spent on Broadway has been wasted. I did feel at the timwe that they started refurbishing Broadway, that all it really needed was to returned to what it was before the old outdoor Market was demolished and the new shops built. Despite the money spent on it, it is now 'souless', it used to be an attractive area, with the raised gardens and the wooden benches.

I also filled in a questionaire yesterday.

I particularly liked the idea of opening up Blackburn Road, and having more access from Eastgate. As it now stands the main access routes to Accrington actually encourage you to bypass the Town Centre completely.

I liked the ideas for the Grange Lane area.

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On a pedantic level, I thought the actual display was very poor. It was dimly lit, and was so low I had to get on my hands and knees to read it, which was quite a feat for me.:(

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No Park .. Paul Butler are all part of the team of Urbed, as with the others mentioned, and would not incur a further fee. Lots of different companies are more specialised in various areas, like transport, architecture,design, economical values, etc., suppose a little like a builder when he sub-contracts joiners, electricians, etc., so included in the overall 'fee'.

As for the fee, most councils only put this as a certain percentage of their consideration when choosing the 'winner'. Possibly say around 20%? of the brief which all tenderees would have, the rest in other areas.

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well its wetted me appetite, goin to have a gander tomorrow.

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That's the spirit.

It's good to take an interest...even if you'll never see it completed.:D:D:D

(Only jokin'.):p

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Wait till thursday afternoon cashy - then you can buy me a brew!!! :D

One excuse for not cleaning the house - sorry spug nowhere to sit down cashy bought me a brew!!!

I still havent seen it yet.

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From what I can see they will only be adding to the recent development of Broadway, and as it is a 15 year plan, think we may get our moneysworth out of it anyway.

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I agree with you there. With my damaged knees though I can't get down on all fours so I had to do a bit of a contortionist trick bending double and looking up. Do you think I can sue them for the resulting pain in my back? ;)

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Does sound a little stupid doesn't it Willow .. was at eye-level in the Market Hall ... :confused:

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No ...... ..... not Disney world ya' know.. :)

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i think the first thing they should do is take down that horrific rainbow effect window above the arndale entrance - it looks tacky and the only thing it is in keeping with is the pound shops i wouldnt even use it for a sick bucket - and what is happening with the plan to rebuild houses on lonsdale street i cant see that anywhere ???

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That's because Lonsdale Street is not within the boundaries of the town centre plan Keetah.

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On the prefered option the whole of the blue and white building, that is the Town Hall extention/parade of shops, would be demolished, as the new design sweeps out over Broadway.

So it would be bye bye to the brushed steel 'street furniture', new paving stones, and bum freezing benches.

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katex - so do you know if there are plans anywhere to rebuild those houses - seems like another job that will be left half finished - hope these new plans dont go the same way :(

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Don't understand why he should have a conflict of interest here; seemingly property depriciates in value if it is around a bus station.

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Yes, plans were put forward but rejected .. see Park's post on this subect:-

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...s-27426-7.html

# 96

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Not all I am sure .. still be adding .. will have to await further detailed plans.. may even put lovely tiger skin cushions on the seats to keep that cute bum of yours at a level temperature ... :D

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But it might be 15 years before they do that bit!

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I guess I'm the sort of person who always thinks ahead, and sees the bigger picture, and not the sort of person to spend nearly half a million quid on something that will be obsolete.

It would be great if politicans saw the bigger, long term picture, and not just thought in terms that are dictated as to when the next election is.

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So you really think our Councillors improved Broadway just to gain votes at the next election then ?

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They don't do anything they think will lose them votes, that's just a by-product of incompetence.

I still think planning should be thought of in the long term.

£400,000 isn't a triffling amount. It could set up half a local council run community website, or buy an interesting artefact for a local museum.:D

If and when the go ahead is given, one would hope the proposal would be finished in fifteen years. The newly refurbished Broadway would of course be decimated well before that, if the plans go ahead.

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Thank you for that information, but are you saying HBC prepared a brief for the tenderees? also that the fee is not the main consideration when choosing the 'winner'.
Looks as though we are talking about a 'preferred partner/developer' here.