councils coat of arms illegal?
 

I AM looking at
their new PLAEGORISED coat of arms their design is illegal ... just as illegal as them taking greenbelt land... for hyndburn council to show a "full acheivement" coat of arms
must mean there is a real blood link to a knight... as a family who carries a genuine full
acheivement coat of arms i find hyndburn council "IMPOSTURES" (Q), just for the record, nowadays every surname can buy a coat of arms but it may not be genuine i.e. "full acheivement" in which it would have to be earned the old fashioned way ... most family crests are not coats of arms dont confuse them, hbc,s last crest ( bambi ) was typical
of thoughtless pointless artwork ,which to an outsider is one of the funniest logos ive seen, like which primary school did they take it from? but now some thought has been put into this one i see... i wonder where they plaegerised it ... more fuel to the fire in which they will burn... if there are any of hbc/s employees reading this then please take note, its perfectly legal to make a coat of arms, anyone can make a coat of arms ...
but it is illegal to make a "full acheivement" coat of arms and looking at it now this is the
latter... so if their are no knights or anyone blood related to king david then i suggest
you rethink the logo and remove the acheivements then at least the people who are more informed about our country and its protocols
will know the truth... that you have earned absolutely NOTHING.

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

this is not a new coat of arms, it has been used by Hyndburn since 1974 but just not as the council's logo

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

Which one is it ?
I have found two - one in local press and another from a civic heraldry site

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

its the second one margaret, according to the citizen's website

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

The 2 anorexic lions one ! :rolleyes:
I much prefer the other -- IF we have to have one at all

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

Does anyone really take notice of it anyway ?

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

It just increases stationery printing costs ----waste

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

The first one is used by Accrington Stanley

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

Surely, the first one is the old Accrington coat-of-arms that used to be on the buses, refuse wagons etc?

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

I think you are labouring under something of a misapprehension here.

This, from the government website directgov,

Military medals and coats of arms : Directgov - Rights and responsibilities

would seem to argue that HBC has done nothing "illegal" whatsoever and is perfectly entitled to its achievment of arms, supporters and all. Where some obscure Jewish bronze age monarch comes into the argument is a bit beyond me though.

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

thanx 4 info but they are still taking the ****..... and i swear every time i see that fake
logo i will burn it down. ... wherever it is attached to... they have no right
to copy my familys heraldry because simply there is not one member of hbc who is brave
or intelligent enough to adorn one...the imbeciles should stick to glorfying monkeys like a/pals or bending over
and taking it up the arse from brussels...
this is war..........

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

I am sure that the Royal College of Heralds are most punctilious in their formulations. And while it is true that certain heraldic symbols appear in the arms of many different families, it is the precise combination of elements and colours that is the unique signifier. Simply because a grant of arms contains an image of, say, a lion, it does not mean that the image has been stolen from another grant, but rather that these images are merely the alphabet of heraldry.

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

well my moneys on legit.:rolleyes:

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

A coat of arms is devised by using items off a sort of 'shopping list' i.e. there are a certain amount of symbols that can be used each one signifies a different thing. So it depends on what you want to say as to what you pick off the list.

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

Don't know but acrylic bob and gayle are correct, you can't copy exactly but if you change certain things so that it's unique then that's different. Berwick's bear and staf are very similar to warwickshire's but not exactly the same.

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

there are things like the blue and white band round
the helmet for starters.. you have to have done services to
this country.. services such as killing opposition
armies and defending our shores from inferior human scum such as the muslim-biciles.. scotch transvestites and all other invaders...hbc are taking the dobson..the council have no history and no importance whatsoever to the foundation of england.....
the only reason why hbc got a good mark this year is that they passed the bulk of the work to others who are not in-bred accrington-vasey, they privatised the council houses so now we have a private slumlord ...just like stirling properties,another set of racketeer scum given a golden handshake by that tory **** dobson....besides.. when i wrote to the pondlife called hbc, my mail was printed with my family coat of arms which was
plain to see, they think they can also steal my well earned coat of arms it will cost
them.. and the ratepayers millions in destroyed property cus i swear anything which carries that fake coat of arms will be destroyed by proxy.... even if it means the whole town. go to hell hbc.... i hope you bury your grandkids first

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

The Real Michael seems to be real crazy http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/241/nutsss1.gif

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

Im sorry but this logo has been in use for years so now why bring it up and if you know it is illegal why put a question mark in the thread title ?. Get a life you sad attention seeking buffoon.

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

thought it was just me being a cynical owd git.;):D

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

No it might be me being a arrogant little gobsh***

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

I think this is the current official logo

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/a...1&d=1203531209

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

The article in the Citizen newspaper shows that they have modified the original coat of arms-

Quote-Coun Britcliffe said the cost of the rebrand would be minimal because the crest was already in existence and had been worked on by an in-house graphic designer

The words 'in house' says it all - some local clerk with an artistic bent, has made considerable changes, so that it bears no resemblance to the original coat of arms we remember.

It would be interesting to know whether permission was sought for the changes from the national body who oversees these things - I suspect 'no'

Maybe they have made the coat of arms so similar to one which already exists that it has incensed the member who alleges it is his.

Is this yet another Britcliffe faux pas?

PS why alter it anyway - the original was nicer

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

Wish someone could get to the bottom of this and put the "real michael" out of his misery before he takes a torch to the Mayor's car !:rolleyes:

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

the one margaret attached in a thumbnail, is/was accys coat of arms n always will be as far as i,m concerned, should never have been changed,IMHO, but then i aint gonna go to war over it,get a life "The Real Michael":rolleyes:

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

Ain't that a little racist...? I'm not easily offended, but being Scottish, I actually find that quite disgusting.

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

You are right Diesel, I have reported it so we will see what happens. It's not the first time this person has had a semi-literate rascist rant on here.

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

The real michael is not expressing himself in a civilised fashion but he may well have brought to light a breach of the rules of heraldry (if such rules exist) which our council have, in their ignorance, breached.

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

i agree could well have done, ya do not gather much support though with junk like that though.:rolleyes:

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

I think that The Real Michael is, in fact, Garinda in alter-ego mode.

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

I was going to ask if anybody actually cared, but as we are on page three then it seems they do and I cant help but find that a little disturbing :do-one:

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

about what? the coat of arms? if thats what ya find a little disturbing mike, that disturbs me a little, given your occupation.:confused:

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

We dont deal with coats of arms ;) Unless they're a registered trade mark!

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

ya didn,t answer me question;)

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

I think the initial attempt at humour in my original post has, by now, especially if I have to explain it, worn off well and true ;)

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

You really need to listen to the wonderful music he creates, before you decide on that. Look through his old posts for the links.

To hear it evokes everything that is quintessentially English...or do I mean pseudo American (c)rap?

Apparently it's only those nasty Jews at the BBC, who are stopping us all from buying it, and thus preventing it from topping the popular music charts.

Personally I don't give a lion rampant, and three cross-eyed bees, what's on the borough's coat of arms, as long as it doesn't cost us anymore money.

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

As a 'bicile' I'm also very offended.

Well, if only it was a real word, I would be.

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

Whilst I'd rather not give credence to a racist rant, I would like to set the record straight. In 1974 the Borough of Hyndburn was created from the Distrcit Council of Accrington and six other Urban District Councils (all of which had their own crest, as we have seen by the display of the Accrington Crest on here). On creation of the new Borough the Hyndburn crest was officially bestowed upon it and approved by the Heraldry. This crest as been used since 1974 and is the official seel of the Council. It is legal and legitimate and is actually owned by the Council. It canot be used by others without the permission of the Council.The original certificate of 1974 bestowing the Crest on the Council can be viewed, by request, at the Councils Offices on Ormerod Street.
Family Crests are passed down the line of the eldest son and may only be used by those in this direct lineage. It is therefore more than likely that our originator is the one illegally using a Crest in this instance.

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

It was my understanding that the current arms of the borough were granted in 1976.

The word "crest" actually refers to the symbol surmounting the helm at the top of the achievement.

Passing an achievement along the male line is subject to the Law of Cadence, which is not exactly as straight forward as "smallville" suggests.

Other than those few quibbles I broadly agree with "smallville's" comments.

A question for the realmichael, how do you propose to destroy all instances of the borough's arms "by proxy"?

Any questions or disputes are properly referred to the Court of Heralds.

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

Sad, isn't it, when people have to stoop to this kind of downright insulting abuse?

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

personally i think the guys a complete fruitcake n should be pitied. after being beaten with a mallet.:D;)

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

So do I Mr C, and I usually treat his rants as such, but insulting the town's war dead is a step too far in my opinion.

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

agreed................

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

Well Peter Britcliffe seems to think that he can get away with most other things.

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

I think the design that Britcliffe referred to was the hideous corporate logo that adorned their letterheads, vans and road signs, you know the stylised deer's head with a background of wavy lines.

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

It is about the even newer one they have cobbled together

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

Actually the one you pictured is the one granted by the Royal College of Heralds at the formation of the borough following local government reoganisation in 1974. It is the same one that hangs from the Mayor's Chain of Office and is painted on the Mayoral Limousine and currently features on the masthead of the council's website.

This is the one Britcliffe referred to.

http://www.accringtonweb.com/gallery....php?file=6684

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

the other one, which some remember being on the side of our buses was nicer don't you think?

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

Those are the Arms of the Borough of Accrington Granted by the Royal College of Heralds in the 1870's. Since Accrington is no longer a borough in it's own right, but is part of a larger borough, those arms are now no longer used.

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

Thanks for solving this -- we can now all conclude that the real Michael is ranting about nowt, because our ugly coat of arms, revised in 1974, was officially sanctioned at that time.

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

That appears to be about the size of it Margaret. I suppose as Armorial bearings go, the newer one is not really that bad, but I do agree the older Accrington Arms have the added benefit of familiarity.

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

think he took one flew over the cuckoos nest,literally.:D

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

When the arms were granted to HBC in 1976 there was also a badge included in the grant.

http://www.accringtonweb.com/gallery...burn_badge.jpg

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?
 

Which is where the nodding donkey comes from I presume. It is a simplified version of the above badge.

Re: councils coat of arms illegal?