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Is it the first of April?
After reading this...
Muslims shocked to learn that crisps contain alcohol - Times Online you might be forgiven for thinking so. Is there no end to this ridiculous pantomime? The comments at the end of the article are worth reading too. |
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never read such garbage in me life, walkers- i would give em karma, but they aint members.:D;)
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I hope that nobody thinks that is the end of it, alcahol use in foodstuffs I mean, it is a bit like the 'it's bad for you' messages, we wouldn't eat at all if we listened to all of them, rome and romans again I say!
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Can well believe it, I had a Muslim lady return a bottle of cough medicine last week because it had alcohol in it !:rolleyes:
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Muslims aren't averse to profiting from the sale of alcohol though. They seem to own the majority of off-licences in this area. More than one of which has been prosecuted for selling to under-age drinkers.
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The way i see it is that alcohol is against their religion and they have the right to know which things contain alcohol. We should respect their religion. When i did my first aid course the tutor used non-alcohol wipes on the practice dummy because there were muslim women present..
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Call me sick but I found it very funny.
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and me makes 3 :D |
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What about other religions that dont allow alcohol?
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So will pupils be suspended for taking a bag of Walkers snacks into this school?
Suspended for drinking... shandy - Accrington Web What do you reckon, Lilly & Katex? :D |
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what about the handwash they use at school? that might contain alcohol, facial wipes, cleanser and toner, there's allsorts that uses alcohol, are they exempt from using the stuff in hospitals that everyone has to use to stop the spreading of MRSA?
what a load of old bollox |
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you can get them without alcohol.....
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but there is alcohol in the hand wash they use in hospitals
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Will have to seriously think about this one .. :D Should be taking fruit anyway .. not all that fried crap. Perhaps Willow may wish to step in with this one too .. sorry Willow not getting at your beliefs, just genuine question ? |
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This is the one i use..... alcohol free and proven to kill mrsa, also used in hospitals
KILL MRSA and MSSA NOW! killmrsa.com |
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If the Muslim Council of Britain has nothing better to concentrate on it should be disbanded
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oh and where do you buy that from emma?
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you can get it in chemists and they sometimes have it in poundland...
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I think its pathetic, if they have such a problem with the way in which things are done here then why are they here?
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thats an understatement |
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so how about the ones who buy clerasil and other beauty products at ethels, they contain alcohol and they dont seem to be complainig at that, i think its ridiculous honest is just pathetic
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Its just something else for SOME of them to kick up a stink about. They are not all the same and am sure they dont all follow their religion but the ones that do and create in this way cause problems for the ones that accept things for how they are and get on with it as the majority of us (even me sometimes) seem to stereotype them all instead of remembering that they are not all to blame for this kind of thing
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ok so what if we wanted to go and live in an asian country? would we have to abide by their rules? of course we would....so why the hell are we letting them dictate to us? our government wants shouting
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I agree...... |
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Nothing wrong with your memory is there?:D Two separate issues here though. The shandy in school issue is about a school rule that says kids must not ingest alcohol at school. This alcohol in crisps thing is an issue about muslims not using any alcohol based products as part of their religion. Two different issues. |
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then again on second thoughts they were both being a pain about it, carry on and give them some ;) |
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Seems that foods cooked with alcohol is generally cooked and this evaporates before being served, etc. Humph .. that's sounds good. Anyway, 'tis 'alcohol drinks' they have a ban on .. nowt about 'alcohol food', if you can name any. Humph ... that's sounds good too. Over and out.. ! |
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No, we were not. I want to teach my children that they need to abide by whatever rules their school chooses to impose. I don't want them to think that they, for some reason, are exempt. If I didn't like the rules I'd choose another school? Do you think differently? :confused: We're going off thread now. You'll have me deleted. Who brought this up again? |
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I don't actually know where muslims stand on this but I do know there are halal perfumes which contain no alcohol but are based on essential oils. I actually personally prefer them because instead of evaporating away they are longer lasting and seem to have richer fragrances. However, I do know one Saudi Arabian perfume house, Ajmal, which makes at least one alcohol based Eau de Parfum which is used by many Arab muslim women so it can't be taboo over there. I would put that in the same class as alcohol wipes and hand washes. Mouth washes, toothpastes etc are a little bit different because you could be swallowing some so I would prefer to avoid them. However (Leslie ;)) if I did use one without knowing it contained alcohol I wouldn't throw up my hands in horror and fear eternal damnation. I know there is very little alcohol in shandy and that it's nigh on impossible to get drunk from it, but I wouldn't drink it because it does contain alcohol. I choose non-alcoholic drinks. I know members of our Church who would happily cook with wine because the alcohol is theoretically burned off - and so having the flaming brandy on the Christmas pud is acceptable but not something I do because a, I don't like Christmas pud and b, I'd be frightened of setting the house on fire! However the people who happily do that would not have a brandy sauce or a white wine sauce because the alcohol would still be present. So it's not a case of it being contaminated by having come into contact with alcohol. It's a case of if there is any still there. And so to the subject of the Walkers' crisps. Personally, if I have understood the Walkers' statement correctly and the alcohol is used as a means of extracting flavour which is used on the crisps, I would see that in the same context at the Christmas pud where the brandy is burned off. It wouldn't make me avoid quavers for fear of ingesting alcohol. However, having said that, I do think that we have a right to know what is in our food. If they had used peanuts in order to extract a flavour they would have had to state that on the packet because of the danger of peanut allergies, if the product contains a source of phenylalanine they have to say so, so why can't they simply state that alcohol is used in the manufacturing process? That way people could make an informed choice and not feel they have been misled. This isn't a case of people telling us how to live our lives or making the rules, just a case of asking for the rules to be followed which already exist and which would be sufficient for their needs. It's not as if they are clamouring for Walkers' crisps to be banned or demanding that no-one else in the country should consume alcohol. They are simply asking to be given the information so they can choose. |
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Willow - I have some bad news for you -
Kefir, an alcoholic beverage? Depending on the fermentation process, fermentation temperature, time and type of culture used, the alcohol content of Kefir will vary from 0.06 % (Marshall 1984), up to a maximum of 3% alcohol. The average alcohol content in home brewing is around 0.5% with a loose lid and 1% in an airtight jar. Shaking the fermentation container during the fermentation time also results in higher alcohol content. I didn't know this when I got you brewing it .... sorry |
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I’m all for clear food labelling, we should know what we are eating. Nutritional content, possible allergen content, general health stuff. I think it’s going a bit far to expect religious persuasion to be catered for in the labelling process tho
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Must admit would be interesting to hear what the school had to say about it. Also, would not allow my children to have packed lunches anyway .. school dinners or starve, and sure the school would not serve sherry trifle anyway, as could throw up some complaints from parents .. t'other way round so to speak. |
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Don't think Walkers will alter their process either, but maybe they will just add a comment on their packaging if there is enough huwha about this. Surely every other crisp manufacturers use the same type of process.? |
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What's the stand on Rum and Raisin ice cream?
Will a non-Muslim have to pack it in my eco-friendly, hessian shopper? |
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Whoops.
Wrong thread.:o |
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Women! :mad: ;) |
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Whilst reading up on this, and from which I found out that some Muslims accept the use of alcohol outside the body, I came across this.
'According to statistics, 8% of Americans commit incest i.e. one in every twelve to thirteen persons in America is involved in incest. Almost all the cases of incest are due to intoxication of one or both the persons involved.' Islamic Voice Gosh, how many American members have we on Accy Web? I hope none of them are merry on moon-shine, and are diddling their cousins. |
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About what you said regarding them buying this stuff at the supermarkets i totally agree. I work at tesco and they always buy crisps etc.. but a lot of muslims also buy alcohol and i know quite a few who drink it,it sounds like double standards to me IMHO. |
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No, it isn't double standards. It's people being individuals. You can't lump all Muslims as the same, let alone all Asians or even all people with the same colouring. Some will be sincere about following their religion, some may be less strict. It's not hypocricy, it's individuality. Just because some people, who happen to be the same race or physical appearance as devout Muslims, do not act like devout Muslims that doesn't mean that all people of that race are the same. They may not even BE the same race or same creed. I knew a lad who looked like your average Pakistani Muslim but he was actually a CofE vicar's son. Does that make sense? |
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Yes it does make sense. I didn't mean to offend you i was just offering my point of view. It just seems like muslims are quick to denounce walkers because they put a tiny ampount of alcohol in crisps but don't seem to mind the ones that drink. |
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sorry i meant amount!
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Nothing surprises me any more, every time you pick up a paper or put the telly on there is some act of stupidity being reported. As for this latest load of ****, well its our country, and if there is something that does not gel with other religious denominations or other races then tough, its like the old cherry, if there's something on TV that offends there is always the off button, same with other things, if theres something in food stuffs that is agains religious beliefs, then quite simply don't buy it, end off
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Just chucked a packet of Walkers 'Sensations' Thai Sweet Chilli flavour (due to age). They had listed 24 ingredients. Sure there could be a lot more in the processing of food. For instance, most foods use water during processing I would think, would they, therefore, enter chlorine .. just a silly example, but could go on and on I suppose.
Does have a logo on the packet suggesting 'Divine with Wine' whoops, maybe this should be banned too ! Course only a suggestion, and nobody needs to pick up on this, but could be inferred Walkers are encouraging the intake of alcohol, blah, blah. Thanks Willow for your usual sensible insights. |
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Only put that in brackets because didn't want our members thinking had chucked 'em because of lack of ingredients info'. Well, maybe am too old for them .. thought they were bl**dy horrible. :D |
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You have made an illogical comparitive assumption here. There are people who do not wish to consume alcohol in any form who have expressed the wish that it be noted on crisp packets so that they themselves can make the informed choice whether or not to eat them. They do not condemn Walkers. They are making a request. They are not saying that no-one else should ever eat Walkers crisps, nor are they even saying that Walkers should not use this method of production. They are simply asking that the information be available so that they know and in my opinion that is not an unreasonable request. As I have already said, for anyone who has a peanut allergy it is vitally important that they know if something could contain a trace of nuts. That doesn't mean contains nuts, it means can have been produced on the same production line as a previous confection containing nuts. Now whether or not there are people who appear to be Muslim (whether because of their clothing or their physical appearance) and yet are not living Muslim standards, ie drink alcohol, gamble or whatever else (ham sandwich, pork scratchings) that has absolutely no bearing on the matter whatsoever. What one person chooses to do should not affect another person who chooses not to do it. At one time Catholics did not eat meat on Fridays but if one person who was born into a Catholic family yet did not believe in the Catholic faith and only attended mass because they were dragged along by the family, if that one person was to be seen in McDonalds on a Friday evening eating a burger would that make hypocrites of the whole of the Catholic church? Of course not. So what you are saying about 'don't seem to mind the ones that drink' is irrelevant. Muslims (albeit not very devout ones if they drink alcohol) who choose to drink have their own free choice and agency and can choose to do what the heck they like. That shouldn't mean that Muslims who choose not to drink should not be kept informed when a product contains alcohol. |
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British Humanist Association |
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I'm in agreement Willow. It's one of my bugbears too.
You can't tell anyone's religion from the colour of their skin. Asia, that vast continent, which stretches from Turkey to Japan, includes people of many races and faiths. For all we know there might be white Muslims stocking up on cooking sherry in Tesco, and no one would be any the wiser. |
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And the brown people down the alcohol aisle or buying lottery tickets might be Scientologists or Moonies! |
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I believe it is only in certain parts of the US ... you can tell if you are in the right area if you go into a drug store and see greetings cards on sale which say "Happy Birthday Uncle Dad." And almost on topic: if muslims wish to avoid alcohol, they could eat certified booze free chips (sorry, crisps) and wash them down with American beer:dancedog: |
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screw the muslims i want to know how many bags of crisps can i eat and legaly drive ?
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I didnt know muslims dont drink!!:eek:
I could have sworn iv seen some drinking booze:rolleyes: also fags, which I think they not supposed to do either:rolleyes: |
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it is only devout muslims who actually dont drink or smoke panther so i guess the ones that you saw drinking obviously weren't devout or maybe they werent even muslims at all:o |
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If you go into the article again .. I don't think the paper has very fair with the title .. can be misleading.
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I sounds like they are a bit fed up with Walkers for not acting on a previous request and just fobbing them off.
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Muslims cant be as stuffy on the religious front as they make out. They just bang on about stuff when it suits.
I always thought they were stricter than strict on the teachings of Islam especially with regards to male/female relationships. One of the Sponsored links here on Accyweb is for a muslim dating site Single Muslims. I can’t be the only one to have noticed. |
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There you go again - lumping. :rolleyes:
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As I said, they cannot be that stuffy over their religion. Perhaps I should have said “some” bang on about it when it suits. Having said that, I did think they were fairly strict on the relationship front. |
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Well I haven't personally checked out the Muslim 'dating site' which you provided a link for but I do remember seeing a program on TV about a Muslim introduction agency and that one didn't work the same way as a non-Muslim one which just gives details and the people get together and go on a date. The Muslim one featured on TV was done in much the same way as parents looking for a partner for their children, with a chaperone accompanying the pair when they meet and the introduction being in keeping with Islamic tradition.
This could be a case of non-Muslim eyes seeing something Islamic with different expectations to those of a Muslim. Maybe you would think I 'play the bloody religion record far too much' too because it matters to me that I know what is in the food and drink I have because it matters to me not to drink alcohol. As you will have seen above now that I know that kefir can be alcoholic I will avoid using it. It won't harm anyone else if I don't drink alcohol. Nor will it harm anyone else if Muslims don't. I really don't see why anyone feels this is objectionable. |
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I do get pigged off with Muslim groups being what I perceive to be petty I do get pigged off with the papers attempting to create discord over such perceived petty issues. Some reporting is tantamount to incitement. |
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I somehow missed this bit before but it's a brilliant comparison Bonnyboy and I thank you for it as it's worth bringing up again. You say that we are a Christian country (although even that is disputed by some who would say that we are a secular country with many (but not all) Christian moral values.) Then you say that we do not all follow the teachings of the Bible word for word. That is absolutely true. Not everyone in this country by a long way follows the teachings of the Bible word for word, but that is because not everyone in this country is a committed Christian - not even everyone who goes to Church on Sundays. To some people church is more of a social club or a tradition or something they do because they always have done, and yet they are classed amongst the numbered Christians of the country who are actually in a minority - the majority don't attend church except for christenings weddings and funerals, and nowadays not even for those. There are numerous people in this country who describe themselves as C of E but never set foot inside a church. Then you get the people who are sincere (whatever denomination) and for whom their faith is the major part of their lives, not just on a Sunday morning but 24/7 365 days a year. People who are not afraid to stand up and be counted and say they believe in Jesus Christ as their Saviour and Redeemer, and who get called 'Bible bashers' by the rest. That was what I was trying to say about Islam. There are people who describe themselves as Muslim because they were born into Muslim families. There are others who convert to Islam who were perhaps born to Christian parents or to atheist parents or to parents who didn't give a two penny fig one way or t'other. And in between these two there are numerous others - some of whom attend the mosque because that is what you do, and some of whom say they prayers because they want to and because they feel something and it means something to them. There are Muslims who swan off on foreign holidays and think nothing of it. There are others who scrimp and scrape for the one trip of a lifetime to Mecca to the holy city on pilgrimage. The latter are the ones who care about how their crisps are made. The former will probably carry on eating them even though they know how they are made. Just because the 'nominal Christians' don't follow the teachings of the Bible does that mean I shouldn't? I choose to do so, and accept that they choose not to. I also appreciate the information which allows me to make my own informed choices so that I am not forced to live by the standards of those who choose not to follow. I don't force my standards on non-believers and I don't expect them to force their standards on me. I did look at that muslim dating site link - I meant I hadn't checked it out as a member , for two reasons - 1) I am a married woman and 2) I'm not a muslim. However, just by looking at it you can see how it is very much different to a secular dating agency or to small ads in the LET. Unless I actually joined I don't see how I could have an opinion on how the system works and if it is acceptable to Muslim standards, but I can't imagine that it wouldn't be. Why are my religious views any different to you than a Muslim's? We both have specific standards we wish to live by which are not the same as yours. We neither of us are wishing to force ours onto you, just to ask that we have the information available so that we can continue to live ours. I really can't see why people are getting so hot under the collar about this. To me it is simply doing people the courtesy of informing them of something which matters to them and which it wouldn't kill Walkers to do. Unless of course they chose to hide the information because they feared they would lose sales to all those Muslim kids who enjoy their crisps. In which case I think they have rather shot themselves in the foot because if I were a Muslim I would now be wary of all their products and not just the ones which they acknowledge may contain traces of alcohol. |
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I have seen alcohol containing crisp particles (my mate had thrown his false teeth into another lad's pint). Not a pretty sight but I don't think it involved religion.
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Is there anything that Muslims DO approve of....?????????
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It makes me sad that very few people see this as a concern. If there is alcohol in the product it should be made blatantly obvious.
It wouldn't hurt to put it in the box that contains things that people avoid or could be allergic too, for example vegetarians and vegans are respected and told when there is meat or dairy in the products? I would think british muslims make up more of the population than a lot of the allergy groups or specific dietary needs like vegans, I may be wrong... But I wouldn't appreciate it if I was deceived in such a way. Do people give their children Shandy to take to school? I don't class shandy as a suitable childrens drink anyway, and from what i've gathered from previous threads most people on this forum dont either as they dont give their children fizzy drinks at all, never mind drinks with alcohol in it. I don't really know what to say to this thread, it just makes me disappointed. I don't know many people of my age group that feel this way about muslims or any other race/religion that doesnt drink alcohol or eat certain things. Why do the older generations have these ideas? |
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well we have grown up into a caring young lady havent we;)
my kids drink shandy, i dont see the harm in it, i drank shandy when i was a kid, though i cant stand the stuff now:rolleyes: what would you give your kids to drink blazey???....... |
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There are loads of good choices. Not shandy though, its disgusting. |
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but not from their mummy and daddys shops shhhhhhhhh |
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Those 'Muslims' are as Muslim as the C of E who only ever set foot in a church for a christening wedding or funeral and these days they don't even do it then. Just because someone is born to Muslim parents or is of the same ethnic origin as devout Muslims doesn't make them Muslim. As for what Muslims do approve of, let's see ........ how about honesty, morality, diligence, sincerity, hard work ........ there are plenty of good things which Muslims approve of and which I'm sure many of the rest of us approve of too. It wouldn't be a bad thing if more people approved of those things. Of course you'll always get individuals who don't - just like the layabouts, vandals and petty thieves of a non-Muslim variety.
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i was born christian and my friend was born muslim but neither of us practice our faith in any way at all , the difference is we dont sneak about drinking our beer then tell everyone we are saints or prophits as the case may be |
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