The DNA database...
 

a nationwide DNA database - yay or nay?

i personally i'm all for it. if you got nothing to hide then why fear it? even now i think alot of murders etc could be solved if this was put into place...

Re: The DNA database...
 

seems to me after reading this BBC news report
BBC NEWS | UK | Mandatory DNA database rejected which states there is a database of 4.5 million allready on file that its a bit to late , considering that the 4.5m and by simple extension also includes the parents and any sibling (brother or sister) its a bit late to start worrying ...........kind of surprising considering all these controls have been instituted by a Labour Govt. and not by the 'right wing' fascist Conservatives , maybe 'nu-Labour' has more in common with Stalinist Russia than anyone thought.

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I could not see a 'Right Wing Fascist' Conservative government ever wanting to subject the general population to something like this.

However we have a Government that cannot be trusted with our personal details, two cd's anyone, our health (the PFI joke), Transport (Fuel prices, road tax etc), education (PFI again, and schools that can teach creationalism over evolution!), community services (post offices), monetary concerns, (Tax Credits, Northern Rock Farce). SO I would not trust them to post a letter in the right place.

Why do we need a ID card scheme, DNA database etc....Is it because of Terrorism? well sorry to upset the apple cart, but as I recall we have had our fair share of terrorism, the IRA being the most prominant. If we never needed a DNA, ID etc Database then why now?

The problem with a left wing government is that they want to control you as much as they can, we are already the most watched population on the planet, and now they want your DNA as well.

If I could trust them no problem, but consider this. What would happen if you were convicted of a crime you did not commit, you just happend to walk by the scene say 10 or 15 mins earlier, they found some of your DNA and got ya? Or what if they mix up your sample with someone else's.

Now don't think I am scaremongering your DNA is leaving your body all the time.
One final thing, the procedure our government use for analyzing DNA is not as stringent as other countries use.

Sorry but I have got nothing to hide, I already have my Fingerprints on the USA's Database, (all Pilot's training there, must give their prints) and have undergone very tight security screening for my Restricted Area Pass (Airside pass), I have no problem with that, but my personal DNA I must draw the line there.
Right off for a cup off coffee

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I have put yes on the condition it is run properly :).. I will do anything that will help lock up lowlifes who chose not to abide by the simple rules of life.

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I have voted DK there are a lot of pluses for this, but with this governments record on losing data on a regular basis, puts doubt in my mind:confused:

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It still takes years sometimes to find people even when they have thier dna, they find more people by accident with dna than anyhting else, they have even let people go who were on wanted lists because they didn't check the dna before they let them go for petty offences. Whatever you vote, they will do what they want, will mishandle the information, lose and mix up information, and there will of course be those in authority who abuse, or fix results for personal or professional gain.

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Is this site just about political digs. :rolleyes:

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You never hear old people moaning about the identity cards that were issued to the whole country, as part of the 1939 National Registration Act.

(Departs, and waits for an old person to start moaning about what a flippin' liberty a national D.N.A base would be.)

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dont forget it works both ways it could prove your innocence:)

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Talking from experience..;)

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I voted no.

Our government simply cannot be trusted with more data after all the recent losses. We have no idea what subsequent governments will do with the data. Who knows, in 10 years time our DNA might be up for auction, I bet its quite valuable to criminals and genetic research companies.

DNA can easily convict the wrong person. It doesn't prove you did a crime, only that you were around that area at some point (even if it was before the crime even took place). It can easily lead to wrong convictions. There have been tons of cases of planted DNA, framing an innocent person.

They already have too much DNA. Taking DNA from innocent people even before they're charged? Not deleting it when its proved their innocent? What is this, a police state? We are the most watched country in Europe, have the biggest DNA database in the world (in proportion to our size), the government even want to invade our privacy in our own homes, getting internet providers to look into what we're doing on the internet whist having a massive ID database storing even more of our information, and for what? To prevent terrorism? Everyone already knows it won't do what its supposedly built for. Scare mongering government using peoples fears to restrict freedoms.

Welcome to 1984.

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On top of that, a DNA database is an important infringement of personal liberties; a sign that the government is being given too much power over our lives. The scope for abuse is incredible with such a core part of our beings on record. In 200 years when power inevitably goes to the heads of those with our DNA on file, our descendants will be cursing our names, wondering why the hell we ever consented to this.

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its irrelavant at the moment in my view, cos the " Home Office" have rejected the idea, so to those taking "Cheap Political Shots":tongueout

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It does when it is taken from the inside of a rape victim found beaten to death at the side of the road.

I wonder how many lives would have been saved if our current DNA technology and a database had been available when the Yorkshire ripper was slicing open his dead victims and removing there insides?

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Really? How about the guy that planted someone elses DNA in a rape victim?

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A DNA database is too much of a sacrifice of personal liberty to justify solving a few cases, in my opinion. It's one step away from simply videotaping everyone constantly so we solve every single crime ever.

To quote Benjamin Franklin, "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

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I voted yes because for one thing i have nothing to hide so why would it be a problem for me or anybody else that is innocent?
Also if it means criminals being caught and dealt with that's great.
For all of you who voted no what if you were on the receiving end of a crime and the database meant your attacker was caught and punished?
Would it be worthwile then?

Re: The DNA database...
 

No. As I said, personal liberty is worth the extra risk.

I understand it's easy to let stuff like this through because you have nothing to hide and it's not a problem to the innocent, but can't you see how massively this could be exploited? To take an extreme example, what if a law was introduced that banned reading books or banned being any religion other than Christian? A DNA database would be intrinsic to enforcing laws that may not be for the greater good - it takes power away from the individual and hands it to the government.

A DNA database means that protesting against unfair laws it something you'll have to do through a complicated system filled with people who want power - the politicians. And how do unfair laws currently garner massive resistance right now? By people just doing it anyway. Actions speak louder than words, far louder, and sadly most MPs would rather bend to the will of a loud, physically vocal crowd than one man on a stand calmly explaining the pros and cons of why the current system is wrong.

Re: The DNA database...
 

I can see where you are coming from and yes it could be exploited but like you said you came up with a rather extreme example,that is never going to happen,give me a more realistic example of how it could be exploited,not pie in the sky ideas.

Re: The DNA database...
 

Re: The DNA database...
 

You've been watching too many episodes of CSI! Earth calling Cyfr, Oh forget it, it's time you and that female student did a mind meld, then maybe some sense could be made from at least one of you!
:rolleyes:

Re: The DNA database...
 

i aint sure it was quite rightly discarded after the war, if they had'nt it would certainly have made the "Illegal" problem easier to deal with.:confused:

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Nothing to hide? What about the abuse you seem to have done to that poor animal in your Avater? That must come from a sick mind that needs to hide itself in shame!:D

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/c...tar12029_1.gif

Re: The DNA database...
 

This is one of the few occasions that I agree with you.

DNA data should be treated in the same way that fingerprints are or rather should be.

When arrested and charged with an offence the police take the fingerprints of the suspect. If the person is convicted of the crime the fingerprints are retained. If the person is NOT convicted the fingerprints should be destroyed. But are they? Is a question that causes concern.

The same principle should be applied to DNA samples, the resultant data held on computers and any other identifying data.

I understand that there are provisions where Joe Public can check to see if the fingerprints have been destroyed. But how can you be sure without Joe Public being given access to the whole fingerprint database to do a search?

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The best example I can think of is drug prohibition, which is controversial at best so won't illustrate this is well as the examples I gave above. There's plenty of people around who take cannabis who pose no threat whatsoever to society but with a DNA database might end up in prison, filling cells that we genuinely cannot afford. There's a strong argument for declassifying cannabis and whatever your stance on it, locking people up for smoking it doesn't really help anyone.

The reason it might be worth heeding more extreme arguments is that once we accept a DNA database then it will take far more activism to remove it from law than to put it in, especially once the larger abuses start cropping up, and they might only come 100 years down the line. And if the last century has taught us anything, it's that ALOT can happen in 100 years.

Re: The DNA database...
 

Very funny!:D
I am probably going to explain this a few times but it isn't my dog!
It's a pic i found on the web that i found amusing that's all
You made me laugh though,thanks!:laugh8:

Re: The DNA database...
 

If a DNA data base or Identity cards where to be used to prevent crime, then I say bring it on, (anything that stops even one rape or murder must be worthwhile), but if it is just going to be used to keep law abiding citizens in line, then I'm against it.

If the Authorities want to keep my details on a data base so that my, your, everyones daughter is safer from attack, it is a good thing, (I for one would be in a queue voluntarily if that helped them stop some sick soul from being allowed to strike again).
If however they want me to pay for it, forget it, you can stick your I.D. card where the sun don't shine, if it's important enough to issue then issue it, if I also have to pay for it, take me to court 'cos I ain't going to!

A touch contrary I know, but it shouldn't be considered as an expense that needs to be suffered by the individual, it should be offered like a badge of honour, look at me I've been to the DNA centre had all the tests and they have issued me a card saying I've a clean bill of health.

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I think it's impossible to have one without the other. The police are there to stop crime, but they also keep law-abiding citizens in line. My issue is that this is like a balance - how much freedom do you want to give up to stop crime. The problem is that if we say that anything that stops one rape or murder is worthwhile then that allows crazy amounts of personal intervention. What about being filmed while you're getting changed at a swimming pool? What about being filmed on the toilet in case you do something untoward?

That's not a direction I want to head in.

Re: The DNA database...
 

now yer talking crap.:rolleyes:

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In what way?

Re: The DNA database...
 

Completly wrong and I agree with cashies comment about crap, law abiding citizens keep themselves in line, the police are there to, (supposedly), keep the miscreants that consider themselves above or beyond the law in line.

I hope our police never have to stoop so low as to keep law abiding people in line if that happens we have all lost.
:(

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Clearly anyone who isn't committing crimes is a law abiding citizen, but how many would be criminals if the police weren't there? Some, certainly.

Do you not think that most people don't commit crimes because they subconsciously weigh up their options and find that committing a crime is detrimental to their personal wellbeing?

For example: I could steal that apple, but if I was caught I'd get a social stigma as a criminal, I'd get fined, maybe a criminal record - so what's the point in stealing it?

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Do me a favour tell you mate Cyfr not to bandy accywebs name around his college, we have enough home grown students of our own!

Seriously though,
People that commit crimes are criminals, the police look out for the people that have commited crimes, until a crime has been commited it is none of their business, society as a whole keeps the majority of people in check, I haven't seen a Policeman for several weeks but I haven't used that as an excuse to commit a crime because like the majority I feel I can be classed as honest.:cool:

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Exactly, a DNA database or identity cards are needless intrusions into the lives of the innocent.

And I actually came here because Cyfr always goes on about various threads here and it sounded interesting! Debate and discussion is great fun. :D

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I'll happily promote Accrington Web to students or non-students alike, thank-you very much!

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I thought you may well be friends :D

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well ya didn't need to be sherlock,to work that un out.:Din fact i think there in love.pmsl

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It was just a shot in the dark! A bit of the way my mind works, Cyfr I'm glad you promote accyweb, Rosencrantz, along with Cashie I still think most of what you said is carp, but at least it's spelt without TXT speak.
:rofl38:

Re: The DNA database...
 

What can I say, I'm an English student! :D

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impossible to enlighten one with your experiance.:rolleyes:

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Try me, I'm definitely open to new ideas.

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Ah, but we've had people claiming to be 'English Teachers' on here that wouldn't have passed a Primary school exam so you are quite unique in that respect.
;)

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To bring this thread back to where it started. Loz talked about extreme cases.

Well just over 60 years ago if you were Jewish in a european country you were forced to wear a Star of David on your outer garments, these poor people were treated to horrific crimes against humanity, all because of religion.

Now let us say we have a rather strong Right Wing government in power, say the one Nick Griffin is the leader of. You now know the ethnic origin of every single one of us, so you now have the power to round up people who don't conform to your ideals.
It has happend before and over 6,000,000 people were murdered, we start down this slippery slope it will happen again.
This argument about crime, is utter rubbish, DNA alone cannot be used to convict, all it shows is that you were in the area, or you touched someone at the time. And finally do you REALLY, REALLY trust this or any future government with your most personal details, your biological database, the blueprint to your being. I don't

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Aren't we at war now?

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No-one will deny, (unless they are really warped), that what happened to the Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, political enemies, should ever be allowed to happen again.

But if you or I or 99.999% of the 'British' population had our origins traced using DNA none of us, not one, well perhaps the idiot that had to wear the Dunces hat and stand in the corner, (you can come out now Blazey.:D), would be of pure blood.
So let's hope we don't ever go down that road or we are all going to have to wear something to signify where we came from.
:)

Re: The DNA database...
 

People seem to be labouring under a false illusion if they think that a DNA database will prevent a crime. It will only prevent a crime if a person is apprehended because of DNA evidence and is banged up for it. But it won’t prevent the criminal from committing another crime after being released.

If the statistics for the last 20 years are anything to go by as one crook is banged up or dies there is at least one newcomer taking to a life of crime. How would a DNA database prevent a new crook from committing an offence?

As for ID cards, we won’t be paying for them once but TWICE. Where do you think the cost of setting up the system comes from? Taxpayers’ money!

NO to a DNA database and NO to ID cards.

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You've obviously never needed DNA results to prove a crime.......you only need to look in todays papers to prove that it does and should work....

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You're right, but a database of everyone, criminal or innocent, is an invasion of privacy in my opinion.

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The mothers, fathers, spouses, and children of solidiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, might disagree with you on that one.

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Haha, yes. I wonder how we kill terrorism? Does it have something we can shoot at? Where should we send the nuke to destroy terrorism? Ludicrous :p

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I can see you are a newish member mate so I will give you some some advice, don't bother replying to jambutty. He is always right and becomes grumpy and rather ignorant if you suggest he is wrong.

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Haha, It was an option!

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I was actually agreeing with him there - starting a war against something as vague as "terrorism" is a little absurd!

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If I knew how to spell it, I'd accuse you of being a calumniator! Shame on you Neil!

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Can't stop science moving on Willow, how the politicians use it is the question at the end of the day.

Still middle of the road on this as yet, some good opinions though.

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I’m pretty sure that Rosencrantz is perfectly capable of making up his own mind on how to conduct himself in this forum and which posts to respond to. He doesn’t need you or anyone else to advise him especially as you don’t even follow your own advice.

Isn’t it time that you stopped wandering aimlessly from side to side and joined the real adult world?:tongueout

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I dont know on this one! This gov't cannot be trusted to look after a couple of CD's of data let alone Info on 60 million people. Having a DNA database will not prevent crime.

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I'm not sure either. At first I thought it was a good idea, the police caught the Suffolk Strangler from DNA that they had on record.....but after reading other comments on here about mix ups and lost info etc, I'm not sure now.

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If you class yourself as part of the adult world then I would rather stay out thankyou.

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Because mistakes are made by the police and such with DNA, I would rather not be put on a database. Whilst they are free to look at my DNA if I am a suspect of something, I do not want to be accused of something accidently when they have no other reason to believe me as a criminal.

It's an odd one, I don't think it will cut down crime so it can't really be justified on that merit, yet I can see the benefits it will obviously have in some situations.

I'm not too sure what I think on the matter really.

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Status Quo then? never mind.:D

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What we do about the millions of people who come and go each year from the UK?

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If they aren't breaking any laws, absolutely nothing!
:confused: