Referedum on EU Treaty
 

The Labour government were voted in on a manifesto that promised a referendum over the EU constitution. Greg Pope as our MP was voted in on this too.

It seems nearly everyone except Labour themselves believe the treaty is the same thing as the constitution. Even then there are Labour MP's who say its the same. The only difference is the name.

Do you want your MP to uphold his election pledge and vote in favour of a referendum? Or vote with the government ignoring their manifesto?

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

The last time there was a referendum, on continued membership of the then Common Market, remember that, when all this nonsense was purely a trade agreement, was in 1975, and a 67% majority elected to stay in.

If the government carry out their election promise for another referendum, I think the vast majority vote would be to get the hell out. My vote certainly would be for that.

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And mine, time to get out and stay out.

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When globalization was the fad, the EU seemed like a good idea. But now that globalization is dead, or at least in extremis, and with nationalism on the rise the EU is definitely open to questions about its usefulness. This side of the pond many are questioning the value of NAFTA ... just listen to Clinton and Obama. It seems like the vibrant up-and-coming economies are those like the Chinese and the Indian ... China in particular is very protectionist, even their currency is pegged and protected from speculation. I do think that England would be better to go it alone, rather than tie itself to membership in a club which seems as if it admits anyone as a member.

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I voted against the Common Market in 1975 and I haven't changed my mind.

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

Cyfr, politicians are no different than every other male at last call when they tell biggest dog in the bar that she is the most beautiful woman in the world ....come morning she's been screwed and forgotten and its the same with the politicians , the day after an election ......its either "thanks suckers" or " I never promised that "
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

Not a cat in hell's chance of a referendum, because the government are scared of the result they'll get. That's why Brown slunk in to sign the treaty after all the other leaders had left, hoping that no one else would notice...and why Greg Pope came on here pretending that the treaty was different to the constitution.

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Well with a hundered percent pro-referendum vote so far, it looks fairly clear what the people want.

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

confess i have always been in favour of the common market, thought we should have joined the euro(still do) also confess if the Referendum that never was,happened,dont honestly know which way i would vote now.:confused:as dont know was not an option then i abstain.

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A common market would be fine. After all, it makes sense to engage in economic co-operation with our European neighbours. But it seems to me that we have gone way beyond that and that we are moving closer and closer to a United States of Europe...and this treaty is another huge step towards that.

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thats mainly why i am now undecided.

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It was originally sold to the populace as an economic trade union, something it's gone way beyond now, with all it's interfence in matters of human rights, not to mention sovereignty.

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The problem as I see it is that Europe is not a level praying field. They are trying to bring together countries with different attitudes to life, different wage scales, taxation, heath care, benefits etc. I just can't see it working until they sort out all these issues.

As can be seen already people are coming to work in the UK and taking as much money as they can from her to there own Country. That can only be bad for the UK.

We should look at what happened in Germany when the wall came down along with the German economy.

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Never mind "praying", it is not a level playing field either :D:D:D:D

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I agree with the common thread on this subject and the poll at the begining clearly shows what people think, the common markets was good as a trading pact, but what is being debated today is totally different. Wynonie has quite rightly said its taking us nearer to a Federal Europe, which is totally wrong in my opinion, most of our problems stem from the EU, we don't want more problems we want less

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i think the only way we will get labour to deal with this democraticly will be to have a huge protest on a similar scale of the poll tax riots because unless the public are rioting they know damn well the majority of the people of britain will sit back and accept it no matter how much they dislike it.

the majority of people didnt want to go to war with iraq the last time and our labour MP did what he was supposed to do and voted against going to war with iraq , sory no he didnt he went against our wishes and did as he was told by tony blair so i dont hold out much hope of him listening to us this time either

to be fair he may well have been on here posting that he is with the poeple of hyndburn on this matter and i havnt yet noticed it but i am curious if he would act as to what the people want or what gordon brown wants

trading with europe is fine but europe telling us what to do , making our laws etc is in my eyes a take over, its like germany etc having world war 3 and winning without even firing a bullet

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

Here's your answer on that one!

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...e-36301-2.html

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I could accept Brown’s insistence that we fall in with the EU lock, stock and barrel if he, or rather Labour, had been voted into office (note I do not say power) by the majority of the UK electorate. But they weren’t. They were voted in only by a majority who voted, which was a MINORITY of the electorate.

Brown should call a referendum on the issue. After all a rose by any other name smells just as sweet.

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Brown and Nu-Labour insist that the Lisbon Treaty is different from the rejected Constitution, thus a referendum on ratification of the treaty is not important and will not be allowed. Valerie Giscard-d'Estang, who co-authored both the constitution and the treaty (so he should know) says it is 98% the same document.

I voted against remaining in the Common Market, as it was then, in1975. I have seen or heard nothing in the succeeding years to convince me that I was wrong. Indeed almost everything I have seen or heard about the Common Market, the EEC and the European Union convinces me that it is the most colossal waste of time and money. It creates the environment where large and small scale frauds not only thrive but, become institutionalised. It robs each of the sovereign nations of Europe of their their very sovereignty and their individual identities.

The EU is a beurocratic cancer, which must be resisted at every step.

Of course our respected Member of Parliament will, as usual, do whatever the Labour whips tell him to do, so there is not much point in lobbying him before this evenings vote. However, a note pointing out that actions have consequences and that the people of Hyndburn have a long memory when it comes to deciding who will represent us in the next Parliament, would not go amiss.

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The EU Constitution died when it was rejected by the French two years ago, and what we now have is a treaty which reforms the way the EU runs in order to accomodate the fact that it has been enlarged and now has 27 member countries. Whether you agree with that statement tends to depend on whether you think Britain should remain in the EU or not.

It seems to me that some of the opponents of the treaty are being a little less than totally honest with us. If you support the EU and want it to run better then surely this treaty is a reasonable way forward. If, however, you are opposed to British membership of the EU you should be honest enough to say so and call for us to have a referendum on withdrawing altogether - don't call for a referendum on the treaty as a way of bashing the EU by proxy. As it happens I think we probably should have a referendum at some point on whether we stay in the EU or not, as it is a radically different organisation to the one on which we had a referendum in 1975.

A couple of quick points in response to those made by others: it's hard to see how I am ignoring the wishes of Hyndburn voters - of the 67,000 electors in the constituency I have been contacted by fewer than 10 on this issue; I also don't see how I ignored the wishes of voters over Iraq - hindsight may be a wonderful thing but at the time opinion polls showed a constant (if small) majority in favour of the war.

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

If you are win a Private Member's Bill, perhaps you could suggest it.:D

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Not at all. I want Britain to remain in the EU, it is good as an economic market. However I simply do not wish to hand over ANY additional powers to the EU. It's not at all a case of pulling out, but a case of not handing over further sovereignty.

You're painting the issue as black or white, that you either want to be in the EU or not. The EU issue has not been made apparent to voters, or I'm sure you'd get much more of a backlash. As soon as I post it here we have 90% of people wanting a referendum.

The very committee you're apart of says that the Constitution and the Treaty are the same, honour your commitment and vote for a referendum.

If you're confident of a victory due to odds of 67,000 to 10, why don't you hold up to your election manifesto and let the people have their say!

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

A poll asking who wants a referendum proves nothing.
The political opponents of the Government wish to conduct an invalid Government opinion poll and give it the false identity of a referendum, because it will inevitably result in the opposition's favour.
Whenever the public are asked if they want a referendum on anything the majority will say yes blindly because corrupt opposition politicians dress the referendum up as 'power to the people'.

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

It's nothing to do with opposition parties wanting it, they ALL promised it in their 2005 manifestos.

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This government promised a referendum on the EU constitution. After a couple of referendums in other countries proved that the constitution was never going to be accepted by the electorate at large, the constitution was rehashed as the Treaty of Lisbon. Even supporters of European integration like Giscard-d'Estang accept that the two entities are practically the same. Therefore, if the government had any integrity at all, they would keep their word and give us a referendum.

And, Greg, I think it's a bit rich branding people who simply want your government to deliver on their manifesto pledges (a manifesto which you were voted in on) as "less than honest". If anybody's being less than honest it's you lot!

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

Just heard that the amendment was defeated by 311 to 248 votes. So, No Referendum!

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The government got their way by 63 votes.

But then we always knew that it would take a major miracle for us to get our say on the issue.

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When the next general election comes round at least we now know for sure that Greg Pope has no quarrels with voting directly against what he said he would do in Labours manifesto.

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It beats me why, with a reported 80% of the population in favour of a referendum, our elected representatives felt justified in disregarding the national sense of unease over this issue.

What next?

I suppose the campaign for a referendum on getting out of the EU altogether starts here!

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

that seems to be the case,as the VAST majority of people i speak to, (in the real world) Greg, do NOT believe what the government is saying about the treaty being way differant to the constitution,i have always up to recently been pro-europe as i said earlier in the thread, so did not vote in this poll, the government should have the balls to stick to there pledge,whilst you say fewer than 10 have approached you,do you never speak to "real people" in yer constituency? i suggest you do when up this way,and then come back here n say honestly,what the majority want.

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

As an example of the shabby and underhanded way the government of Gordon Brown has dealt with the issue of the Lisbon Treaty Ratification take a look at this.... it's a bit long but it is worth persisting with...

Article Text- I Want a Referendum

Cutting Parliamentary time for debate, no line-by-line scrutiny, vital issues completely ignored - We are being sold down the river by a government composed of liars, cheats and institutionalised incompetants.

Maybe that much maligned and "irrelevant" body, The House of Lords, is all that now stands between a soveriegn United Kingdom and a Federal Europe.

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

Apparently it is not possible to email the vast majority of Peers at the House of Lords because they do not have offices or email addresses. However,the public are welcome to contact Members of the House of Lords. Please note that the Lords do not represent geographic areas (constituencies) so you will not have a specific Lord for your area, as you do with MPs.

The best way to contact a Lord is by writing to them.

Letters should be addressed to individual Members at The House of Lords, London, SW1A 0PW.

Here is how to address your letter, XXX is replaced by the Peer's surname.

Baron (Lord)
Beginning of letter ... Dear Lord XXX
End of letter ... Yours sincerely
Envelope ... The (Rt Hon. the) Lord XXX

Baroness
Beginning of letter ... Dear Lady XXX
End of letter ... Yours sincerely
Envelope ... The (Rt Hon. the) Baroness XXX

Here is a list of the crossbench Peers.( Peers in the House of Lords who do not take a party whip and sit on the Crossbenches.)

UK Parliament - Crossbench Members

There is no time to waste. Pick a Peer and get your pen and paper out and let them know what you think!

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

When is the house of lords vote?

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

As far as I can make out, sometime before they break up for the summer.

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

...and Greg Pope had the sheer gall to come on here and call those who objected to this charade "less than honest"! :rolleyes:

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

Don't blame me I voted Conservative:D

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

Because the whole concept of British democracy is flawed in the extreme. It is akin to a DICTATORSHIP.

The first and major flaw is that the PM chooses who serves in the cabinet and front bench and if they do not toe the line they loose their job and the lucrative perks that go with it. Self-interest almost guarantees that the front bench sycophants do as they are told.

MP’s are forced to vote the way the whole party votes under pain of expulsion from the party. The Whips see to it that they do.

Too many front benchers are versed in law and thus know how to ‘fiddle’ the words to make them mean something different.

The only campaign that I am aware of is the with the UKIP party at http://www.ukip.org/ukip/index.php where there is a list of which MP voted which way on the EU Treaty.

“MISSION STATEMENT
The UK Independence Party is committed to withdrawing Britain from the European Union. As the debate on the new Constitution has now made clear, the EU agenda is complete political union with all the main functions of national government taken over by the bureaucratic institutions of Brussels.

UKIP believes that this is not only bad for Britain's economy and prosperity, but it is an alien system of government that will ultimately prove to be totally unacceptable to the British people. UKIP would replace Britain's membership of the European Union with the kind of agreements on free trade and co-operation that we thought we had signed up to when we first joined what was then called the European Economic Community..

The UK Independence Party is the fourth largest political party in the UK. We currently have 9 members of the European Parliament who use their positions exclusively to expose the true nature of the EU and to campaign for British withdrawal. Our party has a full range of policies including a firm line on immigration. A policy of non-discrimination is enshrined in our constitution.”

You can join the UKIP for £20 pa or £10 if you are on benefits, are a student or an OAP. Payment is by credit card.

It is time to put my money where my mouth is.

Is anyone going to join me?

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

Why did you vote against the lib dems amendment if you think this?

For anybody that doesn't know, the Lib Dems requested an amendment calling for a referendum on whether we should be in or out of the EU at all.

Both Conservatives and Labour (including Greg Pope) voted against it.

If people believe we shouldn't be in the EU at all, then UKIP is the way to go. However I don't believe that it would be in our interests to leave completely, as it is good for our economy to stay in providing it is an economic community and NOT giving away our sovereign powers.

Remember the Conservatives were the only party out of the 3 main ones which actually kept to what they were elected on. Many of the Lib Dems abstained, I don't think sitting on the fence is a good way to represent people! Whilst Labour simply voted directly against what they told everyone they would do in 2005. How can we believe them when the next election comes round?

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

yer being silly cyfr, its EXACTLY the same as the torys P.B. in the local arena, the LARGEST % of all of em are liars to suit there own cause n you know it.:rolleyes:

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

Do you have any direct evidence of this? I'm pointing out the evidence I have, that Labour voted against their manifesto promise.

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

well if you want to call Katex n Claytonender liars go right ahead,be my guest, i know personally 1 of em.:rolleyes:

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

Presumably you're referring to Peter Britcliffe? I don't know of any election manifestos he has broken. Please enlighten.

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

you clever little get, you know damn well it was about polititions lying.:mad:

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

No, their manifesto tells us what they are going to do for us, Greg decided to ignore what he had said in the manifesto which he was elected upon. He voted directly opposite to the way he said he would.

What I meant was has Peter told us he was going to implement X policy so everyone votes for him, then do the complete opposite, e.g. vote against it? It might well be that he has, I'm not involved enough in local politics to know.

I don't want to rerun the silly cow thread, we all made our minds up about that situation. I happen to think it's different to tell us what you're going to do when you're in office and do the opposite, as opposed to trying to backtrack on name calling. What I'm trying to say is the silly cow thing has no effect on if he's delivering the policy he said he would deliver once elected.

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lying is lying -simple as, brings no credibility to anyone in office.

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I don't even think he outright denied it did he? But trying to make himself not look silly is completely different to delivering or not delivering that which you were elected to do.

If you honestly believe he did lie, then can't you accept that there is a difference between to what extent you're lieing? If Peter lied how did it effect what he was elected to do? How did it effect him not upholding his election pledge once the next locals come round?

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

Cyfr its pointless try to defend PB on here I gave up a long time ago, the thing is be's big enough and ugly enough to fight his own corner, with anybody. I think what gets peoples goats on here is that he won't come on and get castigated and get slagged off for his troubles. Yet he HIS some one who is prepared to talk to anyone face to face and not when they are hiding behind a screen name, Its easy to call him the idiot in chief through a compute screen, but entirely different kettle of fish when your looking him straight in the eye. Since my account on Accy Wed was sorted out I have tried to keep out of the political angle as much as possible, because quite franky it bores the pants of me, I would much rather just stick to the knock about fun, but there are times when I can't say nothing. The bottom line is on a site like this there are people from all sides of the political divide and no matter what no body is going to change. Politics is about opinions and opinions are like eyeballs, everybodies got um (and i have cleaned that up seeing we are on a family wed site:D)

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

Getting back on thread...

I would put forward that the vast majority of people who want a referendum have not read or at least understood the Treaty. How can you have a referendum for public opinion on something when the majority haven't a clue about it?
I believe Greg Pope was entirely correct in commenting that it is wrong for people who have a negative view of Britain in Europe to use a referendum on a quite separate issue to bash Britain's European stance by proxy. It devalues the idea of a referendum and in my opinion is extremely petty.

On Question Time last night (07/03/08), Marcus Brigstocke put forward the point that it is politicians' job to understand and act upon treaties such as the one in debate on our behalf. It does not mean you do not have a voice. As Greg Pope said, if people in Hyndburn or in any other MP's constituency told their MP of their outright dislike for the treaty, then the MP would represent that in parliament.
However seeing as all this business about referenda is entirely centred around point scoring by the idiotic opposition parties; no one properly understands what they want a referendum on!!

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

Well considering that this treaty is 98% compatible with the constitution which was withdrawn, foregive me in thinking that this is more legislation from Brussels through the back door. How many times do we have to be shafted by the EU before this govenment is going to listen to the people. This Prime minster, when only in office a couple of days said that he was going to be different and would listen to the people of Britain, I for one am still waiting

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

Not necessarily.

On the issue of the death penalty, every time there's a poll, the vast majority of people in the U.K. support its return.

However, everytime there's a vote in the Commons about capital punishment, the vast majority of of our M.P.'s vote against it's re-establishment.

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

Why did Labour tell us we were going to have a referendum if they never planned to give it us because we're too stupid to understand it?

You think a treaty which hands over powers to the EU is a completely separate issue to whether we should further integrate with the EU? This is nothing to do with bashing Europe by proxy, if the people all vote in favour of the treaty in a referendum then so be it, but the people should at least get their say like they were promised.

It's about holding our MP accountable to their election pledge. If we had a Conservative or Liberal MP and they promised a referendum then voted against having one once elected, I would still have created this very same thread.

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

Oh right, I see, well, maybe the government should have thought about that before they offered us the prospect of a referendum in the first place...only to snatch it away again when they realised they'd probably lose.

Incidentally, I see that 29 Labour MPs had the courage to vote for a referendum, right across the spectrum from Frank Field on the right to Dennis Skinner on the left...is that "point scoring by the idiotic opposition parties"?

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

No that's representing their respective constituency's views.

The remark about being 'too stupid to understand it' are your (quite crass) words. I consider myself to be as compus mentus as the next bloke and I find the treaty somewhat unreadable. That doesn't make me stupid.
I trust the Government to understand it for me and act upon it as it is their job. You would do the same if your party were ever able to be elected into power, regardless of the tripe you claim about creating the same thread if this was a Conservative action.
Your claim of what "it's about" is merely political spin from an oppositional view, as is proved with "Why did Labour tell us...". Good grief - it might as well have come straight from Cameron. There's no concern whatsoever in Conservative critique for the treaty's effect upon the people of Britain. Point scoring is the one and only concern of the Conservative party. It always has been and it always will be.

If people have so much of a strong opinion on the subject then why aren't they telling their MPs Cyfr? Why must we have a referendum? Last I checked, the system of MPs representing your area's views in parliament still existed. You don't need a referendum in order to let the public have a say.

Change the record about election promises please! Only people who voted Labour on basis of a proposed referendum have the right to criticise the Government in the issue of the treaty on this basis.

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

It's actually called not breaking the election pledge they made to the public. As for the MPs who voted against, I would suggest it's more to do with the three line whips, the fear of losing a proposed referendum and the desire to curry favour with their political masters.

And as for "point scoring", yes. I'm sure the opposition does indulge in it...are you seriously suggesting that this present government are any better in this respect?

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I'm not encouraging people to get hold of the treaty, read it and understand it in raw form. However I'm pretty sure given the major changes at face value people can make up their own minds.

I won't stop mentioning the manifesto no, that's the whole issue here. If politicians say they will do something, they should do it, not do the exact opposite. You're wrong when you suggest I would follow the Conservative party blindly, I have no problem with criticising them when I think they're wrong, and promising something then voting against it is WRONG.

You say it might as well come out of David Camerons mouth? Well it's the job of the opposition and parliament as a whole to scrutinise the executive. Labour and the Liberal Democrats have failed to do this, because they failed to ensure that Labour kept to its promise.

You don't seem to get it, they said they would do it and did the opposite. It's not an issue of them not representing us, I'm well aware of the system of representation, but on THIS issue of handing over powers to the EU, every party PROMISED they would give us an individual say, regardless of whether we agreed or disagreed with their other policies.

I can't believe you're suggesting I don't have a right to criticise my MP because I didn't vote for him. I didn't vote for anyone because I wasn't old enough in the general election, however if I want to inform people about how their MP and government promise them one thing and vote the opposite once they're in parliament, I will.

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At a basic and quite generic level, I maintain that doing what is best for the country comes above one's duty to keep election promises. I see election promises are somewhat relative (and let's face it - all election campaigns are are Americanised circus freak shows these days) and doing what benefits the people most, isn't.

This thread is going to go round in circles. Look; I think a referendum on this treaty is unnecessary because :
a) You can't have a national referendum on something that only the minority understand and therefore have a worthy vote on. Should people vote with little or no understanding of the subject then the results would be corrupt.
b) The public's views on whether Britain should be in the EU at all would also corrupt the results of any proposed referendum. The point of debate is not about that after all, is it.

The only referendum I would be in favour of would be a referendum on whether or not we should be in the EU at all. However of course Murdoch's media & the Daily Mail would turn that into a circus.

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

I see you watched question time too ;)

I think its the job of the politicians to give people the information about what the treaty actually means, the important aspects of it. Then people can vote with an understanding.

I don't think it corrupts the vote if some people want to be out of the EU. I'm sure they'll happily settle for not further integrating, given a choice between further integration and not further integrating. They're achieving the 'lesser of two evils' from their perspective, and I think its right that they should have a say too.

If the parties never intended to give people a vote because it is too complex and they don't feel they could get people to understand what it meant, then they shouldn't have promised they'd do it really. Breaking the promise just puts more people off politics and makes them believe the politicians are even more corrupt than they already think they are.

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

Cyfr have you read the treaty in its raw form? If so can you explain it to all of us on here. Not major points but all of the treaty. You see you could pick out one point that someone will go against but another point that you dont think is major the other person may think it is. Thats the point of reading something in its raw form - you understand it all. Some of the points wont bother you but others will - but what may bother you someone else might agree with and disagree with you.

Im going staying out of this now.

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

Is it just me, or does the Irish Government know something about the Lisbon treaty that Brown and Co. do not? If, as Brown says, A referendum on the treaty is not necessary why is it that the Irish are to have one sometime in June? Apparently the Irish Electorate are by no means certain to vote in favour of the treaty, which would, it is said, kill the treaty stone dead, since it needs all member states to ratify the treaty for it to be put into effect.

Given that the government were crapping themselves when they thought that we were going to be the country which killed the Constitution, before France and the Netherlands kindly stepped into the breach, is Brown's insistance that the treaty does not require a referendum a very convenient way of not having to be responsible for thwarting the expectations of his European masters? It makes you wonder!

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

Spot on Bob, its Brown and co jumping through hoops to keep well in with the Frogs and the Germans, and sod the British people, they'll do as I tell them, I'm In Charge:dflam:

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

Who is to judge whether I or anyone else can understand the treaty?

You? The government?

Will I have to pass an exam to prove my eligibility to cast an opinion on the treaty?

In any case how many of the millions of voters actually read the various manifestos before deciding which candidate to vote for in the general election? Doesn’t that make this government corrupt also?

This government, in a manifesto, promised a referendum on the EU Constitution. When this constitution was rejected by a couple of countries it was effectively dead and buried so our excuse for a government declared, quite rightly, that there was no point in having a referendum as it was dead.

Then less than 5% of the constitution was re-written and given a new title and all of a sudden it is a totally different document. Even the co-author of the re-write says that it is the same document with only very minor differences. If anyone should know it would be him.

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

Good point.

Maybe that is why the referendum on the original constitution was delayed to see how the rest voted.

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

No I have not read the treaty in raw form, infact I'd suggest that most MP's have not read the entire thing themselves.

By 'major' I mean giving over powers to the EU because its takes decision making away from the UK.

With Greg Pope refusing to give us a referendum it means only ONE person looks at the issues rather than the whole constituency.

The MP's need to make us aware of the key issues, such as constitutional changes (handing over powers) so we have the information to decide if we want to do that.

Re: Referedum on EU Treaty
 

Spot on Cyfr Spot no, thats the case in a nutshell