I Have A Dream.
 

With an acknowledgment to Martin Luther King.

In his opening post at http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f69/accyweb-elections-37647.html entwisi asked what sort of a manifesto people would adopt if they had the opportunity.

Although a first rate topic for discussion it was slightly flawed in that asking for a manifesto was asking for too much. I started to write my own but quickly realised that it would be far too long for meaningful discussions.

So I am resurrecting his idea but instead of a complete manifesto just one part of one. Things like Parliamentary Reforms, Taxation, Law And Order, Health Education, Public Transport, Energy etc. with a separate thread for each one.

So to set the ball rolling –
Parliamentary Reform.

Major reforms are needed and to this end party politics would be abolished. A country this size does not need 650 odd MP’s let alone they voting along party lines. Less than half that number could do the job just as well.

Each county would be a constituency where up to 5 MP’s would be elected on their own personal manifesto. How many MP’s would be determined by the number of eligible voters in the county. Thus a sparsely populated county would have fewer MP’s than a heavily populated one. For England there would be less than 250 MP’s.

A parliament to last for 4 years. No early elections at the whim of the PM.

The elected MP’s would select and vote for a PM, the cabinet and the ‘Speaker’. The MP’s could thus also vote out someone who is not doing the job properly.

Each MP would be required to vote in line with his manifesto. If an issue is not in the MP’s manifesto that MP could vote as his/her conscience dictates but preferably seeking guidance for the constituents.

MP’s would be required to attend the House every day – that is 9:00am to 6:00pm (1 till 2 for lunch) Tuesday to Friday. This would leave Mondays free for the MP to hold ‘surgeries’ in his/her constituency.

Do away with all the historical waffle that goes on and in particular with ‘talking out’ a proposed bill.

MP’s would not be allowed to have second jobs, consultancies etc. The taxpayer pays their salaries so they should serve the paymaster fulltime.

MP’s would be given government funded accommodation in either purpose built accommodation or local hotels. No second homes at the country’s expense.

The salary should be commensurate with the importance of the job. Running the country is a very important job so the MP’s salary should be £125,000 pa with a capped allowance to run a constituency office. £150,000 pa for cabinet ministers, with £175,000 pa for deputy PM and £200,000 pa for PM.

Prospective candidates would be government funded for their electioneering. No donations allowed.

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

Proportional representation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So you want proportional representation then?

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

I think term limits are a good idea , 3 X 4 year term, 12 years is long enough for a regular MP, keeps them in reality and stops the idea of 'professional' politician

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

I think that the "Peoples Charter" of 1838 is a good enough basis ... the only one of the six points not adopted is that there should be elections once a year ... I like this idea ... keeps politicians honest ... well, if not honest, at least accountable.

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

Proportional representation might not be a bad idea ... over here in the Great White North, a party can get a majority with less than 40% of the popular vote. Parties such as the Greens are now getting a much larger share of the vote ... in recent by-elections they out polled the NDP candidate in one riding and the Liberals in another, and yet with more than 10% of voters favoring them (and it is going up all the time) they have no representation in Parliament. When a national leader like Stephen Harper who leads a minority govt. stands up and says the usual thing: "I'm sure I speak for all Canadians ..." most Canadians say, "Bulls**t! The hell you do. With proportional representation, the majority would not be ruled by the minority.

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

I agree 650 is possibly too many but I think 250 is not enough. I would propose about 400 MPs all of them independent.

They would be elected on a rotational system, much the same way that the council is selected i.e. up for election every four years but only a quarter up for election at any given time. This would mean that people would stop voting for the party that they wanted in power but would vote for the individual in their constituency.

The Prime Minister would be voted for independently by the people, in much the same way as the US president is elected.

I would say that they had to be present in parliament for a minimum of 150 sessions per year rather than four days a week, this would allow them to manage their time better with whatever bills were being discussed.

I would also put in place a mechanism so that each MP had a consultation period with constituents - this could either be a cross party steering group or a local poll system so that we could have more influence on the MPs voting patterns.

I would also do away with the long summer break - they're not school children and why should we allow the people who are running this country to all go on holiday at the same time, it wouldn't be allowed in a big business.

I believe that MPs earn every penny so I don't begrudge them a good salary. I would put a mileage allowance on so that dependent on where they live they get a set amount of travel allowance per year - whether they spend that on planes, trains or automobiles is up to them.

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

I have a dream on a regular basis but as i`m not allowed into the over 18 section i dare not post a single detail!!!:eek:

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

Ask one of the mods and you will be allowed in:rolleyes:

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

Only if someone can verify who he/she is. Now, back on thread before he notices.
:nono8:

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

Yes Less you are right about the verification. Sorry for the thread wander:p

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

Not really a problem these things happen in conversation. :)

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

Do they? Thought it wasn't allowed:rolleyes:

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

Proportional Representation implies political parties.

So no I wouldn’t like Google Page Ranking.

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

Any political system will have parties. Parties are simply a loose alignment of people with similar thinking, and you're always going to get people who agree with each other on lots of issues.

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

Stands to reason. You live in a dream world where the Navy doesn't acknowledge the existence of Vaseline.

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

Parties are not a ‘loose’ arrangement of people with similar thinking. They are a tight formation of people under one banner who have to vote how the party requires in most cases.

People agreeing on lots of issues means that they can disagree on some.

So if one person agrees with points one to ten someone else might agree with them except for points two and five. Another person could agree with all but point nine and so on. So when it comes to a vote on a point the MP could vote for the point that he agrees with or vote against the point if he disagrees with it. Much more democratic.

The current system of political parties and the method of voting favours the big two and keeps one of them in office to the exclusion of the rest.

It does not give any other party even a smell of a chance of influencing decisions.

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

I think you will like the US system in principle then because thats how it works even though there are parties.

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

so in your ideal Parliamentary Democacy would you be reserving 50 %+ of the seats for women ?, since women make up more than 50 % of the population, surely in a truely democratic and winner take all society (you don't approve of proportional repesentation) women should be in the majority .

Have you considered the implications/complications if this was ever allowed to occur .......
25 % would be absent at any one time either on Maternity leave, taking the kids to the Doctor, attending PTA meetings or getting their bunions seen to.
Parliament would have to close early every day to allow the members to get to the child minders or a early hair appointment .
Every month the Country would be at War with someone over some alleged slight .







over to you ladies ;) ;)

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

Hey JB they're quick on the uptake on here, they WILL!!!!!!! put words in our mouth:D

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

In an ideal world I wouldn't want parties but I think Cyfr's point is probably right - even if there weren't official parties in the way that you're thinking Jambutty there would be a loose alignment of people which would start to expand. There would be bonding and wheeling and dealing to the point where they would be trying ot get people to vote for bills and would expect reciprocal voting for other bills.

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

There manifestos would have to be extremely detailed from day one which I doubt they would be. Also, what if 'new' information was released that made the MPs change their minds - would they still be forced to vote in line with their manifesto?

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

No more detailed than the current party manifestos. Surely a manifesto outlines what the party/MP stands for and rarely states how the issue will be achieved. At least not in detail.

That would depend on what the ‘new information’ is.

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

I've always voted the way i want to vote - even if that disagrees with the party that i am a member of.

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

I think you've made the argument against your own argument there - because an MP could say that they were trying to achieve the end result of their manifesto whichever way they voted so they could buddy up with other people anyway.

For instance, their manifesto says that they will want to support more people going to college - a bill is presented that says that by law parents have to take out a covenant at birth. They could either vote for it or against it under the new freedom voting that you're introducing. An MP could argue that voting against the bill meant that students would take out their own funding and make them responsible for their own education. See what I mean, they could argue either way that it supported their manifesto so that would give them freedom to buddy up with any other MP.

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

Your contrived example is flawed Gayle.

Supporting more people going to college doesn’t mean that the MP would have to agree with whatever method is dreamed up to make it happen. Thus voting against a proposal to make parents take out a covenant is not going against the MP’s manifesto.

Now what about the other points? Or is it ‘cherry picking’ time?

However I was naïve enough to hope that responders to entwisi’s original post at http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f69/accyweb-elections-37647.html would enter into the spirit of it and come up with their own ideas rather than picking holes in other people’s. After all that was the object of the exercise proposed by entwisi – for forum members to present their own manifestos. I just modified it to limit it to one subject in a manifesto.

What would be your vision on Parliamentary reform?

It is all too easy to destroy but not so easy to create. To construct you need the intelligence that is greater than that of an amoeba. Present company excepted, but how many amoebas have we on this forum?

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

Errr, see post 6, I think I've put some fairly constructive suggestions in there, I thought the rest was a debate. Which does involve deconstructing other people's arguments to some degree, however, I'm happy for you to deconstruct some of mine too - that's what a debate is.

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

a·moe·ba also a·me·ba http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (ə-mē'bə) Pronunciation Key
n. pl. a·moe·bas also a·me·bas or a·moe·bae also a·me·bae (-bē)
Any of various one-celled aquatic or parasitic protozoans of the genus Amoeba or related genera, having no definite form and consisting of a mass of protoplasm containing one or more nuclei surrounded by a flexible outer membrane. It moves by means of pseudopods.


Are 'pseudopods' the same as wheels?

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

pseu·do·pod (sd-pd)
n.
A temporary projection of the cytoplasm of certain cells or of certain unicellular organisms, especially amoebas, that serves in locomotion and phagocytosis.


I don't know about that, because, as a certain deluded pensioner from Darwen seems to think, I'm a bit lacking in brain cells. What he (and the above definition) doesn't know, is that the correct plural of amoeba is amoebae, not amoebas, which happens to be an Americanism.
Doesn't that august and factual journal 'Private Eye' have a column entitled 'pseuds corner'? They'll surely know about pseudopods.

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

So you did Gayle.

With all the drifting off topic and concentration on just one point I had forgotten all about your contribution.

However as I understand it, entwisi’s original intention wasn’t to have a debate but for members to post their own manifesto and then arrange a vote. Much like happens in real life.

Again, rather naïvely, I assumed that a new voting thread would be generated where people could discuss the pros and cons of each manifesto before casting their vote.

I guess that entwisi’s idea was just a pipe dream that had no real hope of being treated seriously, except by maybe one or two.

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

It seemed to drift off thread when you accused some members of this forum of being 'amoebas'.;)

Re: I Have A Dream.
 

As Jambutty doesn't want to discuss the relative pros and cons of our manifestos I might as well join in the thread wander.

I think 'pseudo' means something like fake or pretence and a 'pod' is what peas come in so perhaps you find most amoebas in the vegetable patch.:D