42 Day Detention without Charge
 

The Government plan to pass legislation to increase detention without trial from an already high 28 days, the longest time in any democracy by far, to 42 days.

The closest is Australia 12 days. France can detain for 6 days, Germany 2 days, Canada 1 day. Even the country directly affected by 9/11 and most involved in Iraq, the USA, only holds its citizens for up to 2 days without charge.

Who can we compare with? Zimbabwe has set it at 21 days and China 37.

If you put yourself in the detainees place, how would you feel sat there for 6 weeks if you were innocent? Being detained without anybody even saying why.

The fact is 28 days has only been needed once, and that is very debatable. Why should we increase it further? The government have put no convincing argument forward as yet. It is simply a further erosion of our liberties.

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

I'm confused ... is that time without trial, or without charge? I know that in Ontario, anyone held in custody before a trial is credited with time-served ... usually tripled. If someone is held for 10 days, and recieves a sentence of 30 days, he walks on time served. But you are right ... in Canada the cops have 24 hours to lay a charge, or you walk. Seems reasonable to me. Makes the heat do its homework before arresting someone.

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

its held without charge

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

42 days isn't so bad , just be grateful your Govt. hasn't asked GW Bush if he has any spare rooms at the holiday camp we operate in sunny Cuba :rolleyes:

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

Cheapest B & B in Europe.

42 nights, full board?

Can't be beaten.:D

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

Yes thats the problem, it's going to be used against people and they'll have no idea if they're terrorists or not. If they did know they were terrorists they'd charge them.

This isn't about getting tough as in punishment of people who have committed offences. I'm all for that.

Yes sorry it's without charge not trial. Wasn't thinking.

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

It's laughable Cyfr. The 'lock em up and throw away the key Party'. 'Tough on crime Party'. 'Protect Britain Party'. I am not agreeing or disagreeing, I don't know enough but to listen to Tories now is great entertainment if nothing else.This on top of a new socialist policy direction where you are saying The Government should prop up state industries (Post Office's).

You have sold your soul. There seems to be nothing on which the current Conservative party membership has any principle's on at all.

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

Not commenting as to the rights or wrongs of this, but didn't hear much of an outcry when the Conservatives increased the time that terrorist suspects could be held without being charged, from 48 hours to seven days, which went against a ruling from the European Court of Human Rights.

Britain, Citing Ulster Terrorism, Keeps Detention - New York Times

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

Which by the way, for those who are obsessed with percentages, is a greater increase in time than the current government are trying to bring in.:D

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

Why is this a party matter? The rights of possibly innocent individuals is being placed on the line and no-one seems to care. It's an outrage!

Holding someone without charge for 4 weeks is long enough! To extend this to 6 weeks - 3.5 times longer than any other democratic government - is barmy! Imagine being found innocent at the end of that period of time. 6 weeks absent from your job for suspected terrorism? Your job's not worth going back to! And that's an innocent person. Even the police say they don't need the extension. What's going on?

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

It isn't a party matter, just pointing out that this is not the first government to increase the holding time of suspected terrorists without charge.

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

Govt. tried something like that here a couple of years ago ... built a special facility at Millhaven pen, just down the road from here ... but the courts said nfw ... charge them or free them.

As an aside; I listened to a program on CBC radio a couple of weeks ago about surveillance cameras and laws which seem to be illegal in the sense that they tread heavily on civil rights ... there was a comment about England and the over 4 million surveillance cameras they have in place. One of the guys in the discussion ..... I forget his name but he was a brit .... said that England is sleepwalking towards becoming a suspect society, in that all citizens are treated as suspects. There is a presumption of guilt idea on the part of govt. and law enforcement.

I realize that terrorism is a problem, but there have to be other ways of dealing with it than randomly arresting suspects and locking them up without charge for six weeks ... and it could go on. You realease a guy after 6 weeks, and then immediately arrest him again. I strongly believe that if one threatens the rights of any citizen or group of citizens, then one threatens the rights of all. It's taken centuries of struggle to get these rights, and yet many seem to take them for granted.

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

Couldn't agree more.

Complete presumption of guilt, from ID cards to DNA databases.

The terrorists will never conquer our country, they know they can't achieve that. They can however take away our freedoms, I don't think we should be letting them win.

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

It seems highly unlikely that it will be getting the go-ahead.


Labour MPs attack Smith over 42-day detention - UK Politics, UK - The Independent

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

Thats a bit rich coming from you Graham, a member of a party that sold every principal it ever had just to become electable

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

I'm suprisingly in sort of agreement.:eek:

Though of course foxes are no longer hunted, and are free to enter into a Civil Partnership, if they so wish. So some of the pledges promised by Labour did come to fruition.:D

Though the same could be said of the Conservatives, who after eleven years out of government seem to have abandoned each and everyone of the principle tenets too, in the hope of being elected back into power.;)

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

Quite normal for a person with your leanings, no need to apologise, we are used to it!
http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies...ferent0030.gif

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

The Conservatives were never about Thatcherism before that though. Maybe they've realised ideology isn't so great ;)

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

Who mentioned Thatcher?:confused:

They've all been cut from the same cloth, right back to Spencer Perceval in 1809.;)

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

Wrong. Previous to Thatcher they didn't run from an ideology. Completely different kettle of fish. :D

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

Same old, same old.

CONSERVATIVE MANIFESTO .COM - 101 Years of Conservative Party Policy

(I'm never wrong.;):D)

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

And that link proves what exactly?

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

That historically at the core of the Conservative Party, was a shared common set of principles and beliefs.

Well there was until 'Dave' came along with his all caring, all sharing, hug-a hoodie, nonsense, in the desperate hope of re-winning middle England back from New Labour.

Anyway, off thread.

Rebel Labour M.P.s are likely to block Ms. Smith's proposals, so all the wooly liberals can once again relax.:)

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

The link you posted was manifestos, obviously they all have them. The Conservatives pre Thatcher didn't have an ideology however. They had a pragmatic approach to policy making. Completely different. I know it's a thread wander but you brought it up and I simply have to correct you here because it's wrong to say they have always been the same party as the one people remember from the Thatcher/Major era.

I'm glad Labour MP's are against it, the ones that dared speak up in the commons spoke a lot of sense.

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

Not quite right. Sir Ian Blair, of the Metropolitan Police, is reportedly in favour of the increase.

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

If you reread my first mention of it, that's exactly what I said. I agreed with Jaysay, saying that Labour have abandoned their socialist ideals, just as the 'new' Conservatives have abandoned their conservative beliefs, in order to whore themselves, to try and appeal, and regain the middle Englanders they lost to Labour.

Sadly both mainstream parties are willing to prostitute themselves, to appear appealing to the electorate.

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

I acknowledge the Thatcher to Cameron shift, but you said they were the same in general before. I said they were different before Thatcher. Hence not always the same as people remember from the Thatcher/Major period.

Re: 42 Day Detention without Charge
 

I didn't mention the words 'in general', nor did I mention Mrs. Thatcher.

Anyway, I have lemons to suck, and I'm not going off thread to play kiss catch posting with you. You have Mr. Jones for that.

By the way, when does the new term start?

Have you no homework, or percentages, to do?

Have you tidied your bedroom?

Why aren't you studying something more interesting than poltics? I'd happily go off thread to discuss the symbolism in Virginia Woolf's work, or the Fauvist's influence on the art of Picasso and Braque.

You need to widen your outlook young Roo.:D