manchester to get congestion zone...
 

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

time to bring down this useless govt. creaming the british motorist for all they're worth.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

If Manchester does go ahead then Liverpool and Birmingham will be next. Then Leeds and Newcastle and bit by bit it will come the Blackburn way.

I see this as yet another nail in the “Get the peasants out of their cars to leave the roads free for the rich” coffin.

Make no mistake, within ten years or so the ordinary motorist will be priced off the road.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

Just heard Gt Manchest Labour MP Graham Stringer saying it could be a vote loser, what with petrol rising at the rate it is, its just like another tax rise on motorist he said:rolleyes:

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

by 2013 labour will be out of govenment and it will be somone esles problem

nice of labour to set bad things in motion so they can kick us in the nuts years after they are out of power

mind you who ever wins the next election wont lift a finger to stop it if the ball starts rolling but still take great pleasure in blaming teh previous govenment as they started it off

this labour govenment realy has given labour a bad name but then again labour no longer exists as it is now NEW labour and if you ask me NEW labour bloody stinks

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

I caight a bit of it on the news this morning. Pretty sure it said that the government will provide money for Manchester as long as they put the congestion charge in

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

Its the governmet who have the final say, and ndead are making funds available to upgrde public transport if the charges are introduced, bribing people with their own money really seeing the government don't have any money of their own. The thing is there are wo fazes to this the second faze coming in to effect outlying districts, meaning that just going onto a main street will cost the motorist:(

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

A little more information on what is going on :-

'In total, £3bn will be raised for improvements to public transport across the ten GM councils. £1.2bn will come from the DfT (central government) phased over a ten year period. The remaining £1.8bn will be from prudential borrowing offset against the predicted future income from the congestion charge, paid back over a 30 year period. Not ideal (the loan) but people insist on having the public transport improvements in prior to the charge being brought on line and this is the only realistic option to lever in those sums of money.

In terms of the public transport infrastructure the money will deliver, it will be on the scale no authority outside of London has ever seen. New buses, new trams, new tram lines, properly managed car parking in the city centre, new rail cars etc. It will be great but we still have to get through the public consultation over the summer. One issue is that if the public don't support the improvements (plus charge) then the whole scheme is in jeopardy. We'll just have to wait and see.'

Please don't come back to me on this, just a few more details for you.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

In other words kate its going to be like Turkeys voting for Christmas, what with the price of petrol and road tax, if you lived in Manchester would you be voting for these charges:confused: Oh by the way I'm not getting back at you, you know I woldn't do that:D:rolleyes:

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

As Jaysay says some of the money is coming from the Government, and Manchester is a Labour council, famously having only 1 Conservative.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

Is the fact that the council is a Labour one relevant?

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

Ask Accyman, it was not me that mentioned it. :D I was just the messenger! :p

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

Personally don't think it matters at the end of the day who is in control of the council;)

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

It stinks. The North should be bringing in measures to have good firms and jobs to the area, instead of in London. What business is going to do this if they have to allow for the congestion charge.

In my last job, I was in and out of cities everyday, obviously London congestion charges got sent as expenses and reclaimed back, so the more cities this happens to, the greater the bill for employers.

Absolutely ludicrous

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

On another note, until they sort out prices on public transport etc, it'll never work.

It was chaeper for me to fly to London for meetings than get a train. Hell of a lot quicker n all

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

See has got the Government's approval to proceed with this proposal, with a little extra from the Government 1.5 bn.

One good point I heard today was that not everyone owns a car, and the improvement in public transport can only be welcome to these who live in outlying districts.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

I'll wait till I see what the details are but this will probably affect me as I travel round M/c to get to work. Here's hoping Motorcycles aer exempt!

I do think Labour are so far down the slippery slope to oblivion that they can't even remember what its like in the real world any more.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

Its not a new thing, its been going on since june 07
http://www.manchestertolltax.com/

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

About a year before this Uncle Mick actually.

Entwisi ... as long as you are not crossing the M60 towards the centre will be OK.

Also, will only be charges on the main roads into Manchester, could do a rat run on the other roads, with no charge. Charges will only apply at certain times of the day too.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

as I understand it just using teh M60 will mean its payable

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

Definitely not Entwisi .. only if you travel over and off.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

Thats only faze 1 kate, faze 2 reaches a lot further out into the suburbs, Joan lives in Tyldsley, and when and if faze 2 comes in she will have to pay just to go onto her main road through the town.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

From what I heard I concluded that the charges only applied during rush hours.
Flexible working hours should be more widely available

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

Correct Margaret, and yes, Jaysay, Joan will definitely have to pay charges if she is crossing the M60 onto a main road going into the centre. Mind you, public transport will have vastly improved, so she can use this if possible .. also she will be over 60 by then, and will be able to use her free pass.:D

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

She uses her bus pass now kate, but it is a lot more complicated in faze 2, she won't even have to cross the M60 just going on Tyldsley High Street will see her paying. I also have to agree with Greg, this kind of thing is not want by anyone, as I said I saw Grham Stringer talking on the matter on BBC Northwest News earlier

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

Sorry, when you said town thought you meant Manchester Centre .. doubt very much if she will have to pay, as beyond the outer perimeter of charges .. will find out for you though.

Not saying I am for or against, think you need to study the plans before making any judgements ... is initially about improving public transport, (everybody grumbles about this) reducing congestion at peak times, and carbon emissions at the end of the day.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

My son works in a tower block overlooking Picadilly.
He already starts after, and finishes after, the rush hour.
More workers should have the option.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

Kate, she has already got the bumph through from Wigan Metro about these charges and when they will be implamented if it is accepted by the people. Myself, I think that if they are consulting the people it doesn't stand a snowball in hells chance of being given the okay, but will they listen to the people even when they're asked, they don't usually, they always seem to know better:(

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

Not far away from my son then Margaret ... he goes in before rush hour but out at rush hour, however, he leaves his car at home, and bikes into work.

The hours for charging will be 7 > 9.30 a.m, 4 >6.30 p.m. No charge at weekends.

Eventually you will be able to get further details from www.gmfuturetransport.co.uk .. this is now being updated in light of the current announcement and pending public consultation.

Jaysay: Joan will not have to pay charges if she is going into Tyldesley town centre, no matter which road.

Also, you will be interested to note that both the Conservatives and Lib. Dems. are supportive of the Congestion charge in principle.;)

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

Hear hear to that, you've almost got my vote. ;)

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

Amazing how many companies still have the 'Victorian Workhouse' mentality in this day and age. I went for an interview the other week and one of the things that came out was the MD actually goes round the office at 5.20pm to make sure nobody has sneaked off early. I was asked if I was interested in the position, I declined :rolleyes:

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

Living most of the time in London (inside the congestion zone) I can vouch for the fact that the congestion charge has done nothing to ease traffic. All it has been is a money raiser. It's no good making driving into work more difficult and more expensive unless you make public transport better FIRST. This hasn't happened - all that Ken gave us were bendy-buses, which are a disaster for many reasons. I gave up my car in London when the congestion charge would have pushed my annual car bill up to nearly £1,000 BEFORE I put any petrol in the darn thing. Interesting point - if you live inside the congestion zone, you have to pay to LEAVE it - also if you move your car from one parking space to another. The bottom line is that it is a way of raising revenue - hit the motorist, easy target, since public transport hasn't got any better since the congestion charge and traffic certainly has not become lighter.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

By the way, Yvonne hasn't moved, previous post committed by Pendy in disguise!

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

The conjestion charge plans have been altered in the face of strong opposition and include a charge reduction. See detail here-
BBC NEWS | England | Manchester | Changes to city's congestion plan

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

I was in Manchester a few days ago. The traffic congestion was far worse than at a similar time in central London. The best thing that Red Ken ever did was the introduction of the charge. The reason he went for bendy buses was simply EU legislation which aims to phase out the double decker, so we can't blame him for that. Anyway, if Manchester (or Liverpool or Blackburn) rejects the charge then it simply shows how backward looking these places (and their populace) are.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

the simple fact of the matter is Tealeaf, if ya ballot the public asking DO YOU want to pay MORE MONEY, who in there right mind will say - YEH OK.:rolleyes:

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

So Manchester said 'No' .. how shortsighted is this !!

Manchester economy is growing and will continue to grow. At the same time, the population of Greater Manchester is on the increase .. this means the demand for trips into central Manchester will inevitably grow with the economy !

Currently movement into the centre is constrained by limited available road space meaning that more efficient ways of managing travel demand and moving people into the centre are required. The duel approach of charging people for inefficient use of this road space (congestion charging) whilst vastly improving more efficient options (public transport) will secure the means necessary to support this growing ecomony.

Potentially, the money that was available to GM will be now diverted into alternative schemes i.e. to shore up the massive deficit in the budget for the Oympic Games !!!!

What an opportunity they have missed .. these will be the grumpy gits who will be complaining in 10 years time about taking an hour to get from the M60 to the centre, and carrying around their oxygen cylinder, through asthma contracted through carbon monoxide emissions, trying to find a decent transport route into the centre.

Money will have to be found now if their transport system has to be improved, so will have to watch out for heavier parking charges and other means.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

shortsighted yeh were in a recession, people don't even know if they will have a job at the moment, you honestly expect people to vote to PAY. its you who are shortsighted in this climate.:p

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

Cashy honey .... this is not the first recession we have encountered. In terms of development 5 year recession is nothing ... crumbs it's taken London Authorities over 16 years to get Crossrail approved.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

it must be the first one were they have balloted the public, asking em if they want to pay more, cos i don't remember another.:rolleyes: i cannot believe they are that dumb to waste money on a public ballot, when the answer was so obvious.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

I agree .. should never have gone to referendum, should have done what Ken did ... "you voted me in as Mayor, I will, therefore, make the decision" Have to be cruel to be kind in the long run. :D

Would be very difficult if all big issues on Governing this country went to referendum. Too many people voting with their hearts and not their heads.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

now ya get me drift, yer shortsightedness has vanished.:D look at it this way, How much of whose money does a ballot of this scale cost? i don't know but it certainly aint cheap. 10 districts voted, fer it to carry 7 of them had to vote fer the charges. we are in a recession. what chance was there of people voting to PAY. i say - not a cat in hells, complete waste of taxpayers money. simple as.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

Yes, but only the referendum .. not the proposal to improve the transport situation in Manchester.

Road charging of some sort will have to be levied in the future, and probably Nationwide.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

it was not a proposal that wasted money! it was a ballot.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

Not sure what you mean here Cashy ?

Have agreed already that having a referendum was a waste of money .. they should have just gone ahead and done it.

Will never again get the opportunity of so much funding from the Government to improve the transport situation in the city.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

a lot of people in rossendale and hyndburn go to manchester - for shopping, for work, for hospital visits, to visit family, to go on holiday etc. Yes i know manchester airport aint in the zone - but the train station is!!! I know it was for only the busy times in the morning and at teatime but if you have a hospital appointment or an appointment at the solicitor or anything at 9am - you would have to pay that £5 and who's to say that it would stop at £5? So to pay £5 to go to work and then £5 to come home each day is that fair. To catch a bus from here to manchester its roundabout £6 return - now that money goes to lancashire united - not to manchester council for the improvement of the roads. If they charge the buses - whats not to say that theyre going to pass that onto the customers?

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

The buses would have been exempt from charges Shill, and the bus companies would have benifited from extra bus stations and bus lanes making it easier for them and, therefore, reducing their costs. Whether these reductions would have been passed on to their passengers would have been up to them of course.

Your pricing was off too .. it would have been £1 to cross the M60 in the morning, £2 to cross the inner ring road. £1 at night to cross both. Full cost £5 per day at peak hours. (people going out in the morning and coming back at night, of course would not be charged).

Yes, I did think it was fair to levy these charges, have to look at the whole picture for the good of society. Ah well, all done and dusted now sadly. :(

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

This referendum was like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas,
...it was a non starter and the money spent on it could have gone some of the way to improving the transport in the city.
This is where the government get it wrong every time...they must rake in goodness knows how many millions from the road fund licence and from the duty on Petrol, also there are the fines that motorists pay for parking infringements...and yet they want to charge for going into the city...so everyone who works in the city will have a further tax put on their ability to work.
The transport system does need the money spent on it...but for goodness sake do that and let the travelling public see that it not economical to travel by car into the city...if they don't see this then bring in the charge.

I no longer drive so I have no axe to grind here.....but I don't trust government promises.
And remember once a charge is installed then it isn't going to stay at a low rate, and could even be extended further.

No, drivers pay enough already for the convenience of getting to work.
Sorry Kate I have to disagree with you on this one.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

Kate,


If the councils and goverment did their job right then the money promised should still be spent(They raise enough in road fund license, Fuel Tax, insurance tax etc to mpore than cover this). If the public transport was so good that it was a no brainer to not use it( as is suggested it would be by the level of investment mooted) then the congestion would go away, economy of scale means that they could reduce the fares with a small levy once established(1 or 2p/fare) to recover the costs.

See, win win is still available, it just needs the same level of foresight that you are saying the public are missing. The problem is the sheer one way thought process of politicians that Tax is the only way.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

Myself I think that money raised from the Road Fund Licence and duty on petrol should be ring fenced and used solely on road improvements, then the motorist wouldn't feel so cheated all the time

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

They tried to bribe, or bully depending on your point of view, the populace into voting for this charge by promising improvements to public transport etc. only if there was a yes vote. No wonder Manchester said No. Those improvements should be implemented anyway then, as Entwisi rightly says, people would be much more likely to use public transport and leave the car at home.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

And where is the money going to come from West Ender ? Money spent on the scale that the proposed improvements were to be made would have to be paid back (raised) in some way or other. There were no bribes or bullying otherwise would not have been put out to public vote. To improve public transport on the proposed scale submitted, they will have now to look at other areas like parking fees and maybe charging people to park at work on their car parks. Will be a lot slower process and congestion will build up more and more. The Government were willing to loan Manchester this amount of money to improve their transport network, providing they could show a way of recouping it. How else could they do it ?

The money could not be obtained from the Road Fund Licence as this is already stretched maintaining U.K. road networks plus all the other things that go along with our motoring. Was a separate loan from the Government .. motorists would soon grumble if a large proportion of our road tax went to Manchester and not nationally.

To me, is only the same as paying the toll for the Severn Bridge or the Blackwall tunnel .. has to be paid for at the end of the day.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

Katex, there is enough money about to do things that the government feel are important.
In my view the transport infrastructure needs to improved before motorists will forsake the comfort/convenience of their cars.
Motorists are already heavily taxed......it appears to me and many motorists that the government see them as a 'cashcow'.
I'm not sure that all the taxes that are extracted from the motorists do go to the upkeep and maintenance of the road system.
This charge could have seen the demise of many small businesses, who are already under great pressure due to the current financial downturn...not to mention being a tax on those whose work will take them into the city during the hours that the charge would be in place.

I would like to know just how much money Manchester makes from motorists by way of parking infringements...why could this not be put to good use?

There is always the chance that in the future the congestion charge could be extended to cover a larger area, be in effect for most business hours, and could be increased.
And who is to say that the promised transport improvements would have lived up to the expectations of the paying publc?

No.....the improvements should be done first.....that is the way to get drivers out of their vehicles......and it doesn't penalise the folk who have to travel into the city to deliver goods and services.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

Does no local authority improve its facilities, then, unless a comparative charge is laid upon just part of the popluation? Remember that the Manchester transport scheme would only have been paid for by the driving population - regardless of who actually used it.

Do you also believe that all the revenue from the proposed congestion charge would have gone into the transport improvement scheme? I don't.

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

glad theres no charge been implimented , London proves charging motorists dosnt work because the roads are still conjested to high heaven and the statistics are worse than what they were before the charge was brought in,also despite all the money raised by conjestion charges the public transport is still abismal and unreliable

luckily this was put to a vote and the charges were over whelmingly defeated by people with half a brain who a: saw that conjestion charges dont work and b: didnt see why paying yet another tax on top of road tax was fair

road tax unfortunatly dosnt go on improving the roads infact very little if any actually does even though the name ROAD tax would suggest it would

instead of screwing law abiding motorists for money why not start implimenting fines for not having working lights on vehicles and other defects that make a vehicle unsafe to be on the road ,at £50-£60 a pop plenty of money could be raised in accy alone:rolleyes:

me thinks i may have spelt conjested wrong but what teh hell its the internet:)

Re: manchester to get congestion zone...
 

if money raised by congestion fees was put into public transport there would be people traveling for free on the busses because of the amount of money raised by the fees

of course the money was spent elsewhere , probably bailing out the olympic bid:rolleyes: