Trouble in the Tory ranks
 

Shadow Home Secretary David Davies has resigned.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...318867,00.html

Seems like he's clashed with Cameron over the 42 day detention vote yesterday. Strangely he has said that he will fight the by-election that this has now caused.

That seems to me a waste of public money!

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Could it be possible that he wants to give New Labour yet another kick in the pants?:confused:

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Bit of a Prima Donna-ish thing to do, and hardly shows party unity over this issue.

Even stranger that he should be taking this stand over supposed civil liberties, when as recently as 2003 he said he supported restoration of the death penalty.

Not much civil liberty for those who may be wrongly executed, if he gets his way.

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Cheaper than a referendem and makes good television. :)

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It will be very interesting to see if the electorate in Haltemprice and Howden support his soft stance on terrorism, and if he still has a 5,116 majority after the by-election.

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Dont think that will be the issue....I think he will up his majority.
Could it not be that Brown has pushed through another bill which is not wanted?

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yeah i think his majority will increase as many of the voters will agree with him

they'll see him as someone standin up for his rights and the rites of his constituents

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I've just been told that in a poll 70% of the population wanted 42 days!

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Maybe.

Maybe all the Tory rank and file who've been phoning in radio stations, which have been discussing this matter, and who said they said they supported the increase in time that suspected terrorist could be held without charge, weren't from his constituency.:D

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and you would believe a poll?

;)

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By whom?............Labour supporters?

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How things have changed.

The Tories joining the Politically Correct Brigade, and the Bleeding Heart Liberals, in defence of the civil liberties of suspected terrorists.

The whole world's turning upside down.:D

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I'ts called politics :p

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...oll-shows.html

The good old Daily Telegraph - but I guess following recent threads we shouldn't trust anything they say. ;)

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It'd be interesting to know what old school Conservaties think. People like Mr and Mrs Norman Tebbit, who of course were sadly victims of a terrorist act.

I wonder if they are in favour of the hug-a-hoodie, cuddle a suspected suicide bomber, type of policies that are examplified by the Conservative party of today?

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Does it give the house band the people are in, who've voted in their poll?:D

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No but it does say they were on a really low income. :p :D

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I'm sure they are more concerned over the number of servicemen who are currently being killed in Afghanistan and Iraq by terrorists.
Why not let the High Court Judges decide if an extension of time is justified, in consultation with senior police officers, instead of the Government, who seem to be making a town halls of all they issues in their stewardship?

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Can't understand the point really, having seen the newscast, he hasn't fallen out with Cameron, he's not a odds with the party, seems daft, but I'll have to PM young Andrew to tell him o get his election skates on again David nees you Andrew:D

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He is raising awareness about our loss of civil liberties in general.
He appears a man of principle - rare in politics today - I admire him - good leadership potential.

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Since I first heard about it when I loged on about 4-15pm I have given it some thought, and in fact I've come to exactly he same conclusion as you Margaret, at least he is standing by his principles and not selling them down the river like the whole of the Labour Party did in 1994

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I thought this would be appearing here. ;)

First I think its important people listen to David Davis' speech. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7450627.stm At a time when all eyes will be on Haltemprice and Howden, I think it is deeply important that he raises the issues of the state prying into peoples lives. I personally believe the speech is very good. It really questions the direction this country is going.

As people have already said, it is good to see such a principled politician. Someone willing to put his job on the line for something he deeply believes in.

As he is a former member of the SAS I don't think there is any doubt David Davis knows how to be tough on terror, not only this, smart, on terror. He is greatly respected among all sides of the House for his knowledge on security.

Have no fear Jaysay, I will be doing my bit in Haltemprice and Howden, for I believe passionately in what David is doing.

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If I were fit enough I'd be coming with ya Andrew

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I would have loved to see Brown's face when that news broke.

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It has just been announced that Labour will not field a candidate against David Davies.

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Oh, it just gets better and better.

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I think i'ts a case of running scared by the Labour Party....So much for democracy......:eek:

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It just stops the debate dead! I think it's hilarious - there was David Davies all prepared to get on his high horse and Labour cancelled the race!

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I think that David Davies has won the day anyway....and has shown Labour up to be what they are.........a bunch of loosers.

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As they say in the other place Roy here, here:D

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'Mr Davis' surprise resignation follows what sources called an "angry row" between Mr Davis and David Cameron over the party's stance on counter-terrorism.'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...fire'.html


I wonder if it will appear on You Tube?:rolleyes:

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I think the Telegraph use the same sources as 'Billy's Weekly Liar' :eek::confused:

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But the Daily Telegraph is the Tory Bible.

I can't see them having a political agenda, surely?

Forget Big Brother, and the soaps.

This fiasco could prove to be the big show to watch this summer.

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disagree, the only way to change the rules of any club is from within, not spit yer dummy out n throw yer toys out of the pram, as the infamous gang of 5 did when they formed the SDP, got them a long way didn't it? i said at that time they were spineless individuals n say that now, people can pontificate all they wish about Davies, but ya gotta be in it, to win it.simple fact. should i take it cyfr is also standing down his membership if he's supporting this guy?:D;)

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Lol, no he's actually heading up there at the weekend to campaign for him!

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Labour haven't got the balls to be in it.....The Bye Election that is...They know they would get really stuffed...pure spectulation I know! :mosher::D

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my post was non political, about different parties people quitting, i thought this issue was Davis quitting? yer using typical Tory tactics, moving the goalpost.:rolleyes: still expect nowt else.

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Ye good in it..............love playing politics....come on Cashy, how can it be non politcal when you refer to the dead beats who quite the Labour Party to help form the team of 5 and Davies for that matter?:p

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i was refering to the fact i loathe quitters of all denominations n mentioned the gang of 5 to illustrate that n the fact i was not pickin on Davis cos hes a tory, cos hes a quitter.

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Maybe, but he still there....and because labour won't field a candidate..there he will stay...Not a quitter just a very clever politition.
Lots of free publicity.....I'll go along with that...not spin...reality. :hothothot

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And he'll be on the back benches and has given up a very cushy job as Home Secretary.

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In the shadows...........but not for long :p

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theres more to this that meets the eye.this was another ploy to try and discredit gordon brown but its going to backfire big time .all they need is a victim of terrorism to stand as an independant and hes down and out because his seat has more traditional and right wing tory voters and it will just take one person to oust him put it this way there wont be any shortage of sponsors for the independant thats going to stand.people must know somebody is going to stand against him and why the liberals or labour are not going to stand against him so its going to be a 2 horse race and he will be humiliated.so really by people think he is being smart now will find out he is really stupid.

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I think the text should represent HIS priorities. Did he consult his constituents ?

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I see it as playground behaviour, resigning and then being a candidate in the by-election his resignation has caused. Hope he gets beat

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Ye........Just ask the commanding officer of the two lads who were killed in Afghanistan today what are his views?
I doubt if parents of other lads killed in Afghanistan or Iraq....they are victims of terrorism would stand.
The laws of the land as they are, are adequate to deal with threats from outside or internal interference....we as individuals may not grasp it..but deterants are in place to counter the threat.
The attempt by this government to increase the time of detention in my view...for what it is worth...is to show that the Government can satisfy the whims of the back benchers...who in the main havent got a clue..that they are in charge and a majority should be held on to at all costs.
I can see with this stance that a lot of Labour MP's will be on the dole come the next election.

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as they are serving military officers and are not allowed to stand by law i dont think they will.im just repeating the rumours that are going round westminster watch and learn politics..and as they are serving in afghanistan this is nothing to do with this bill.i dont think we should bring this into the thread as i think its offensive as my nephews regiment is in iraq .i know being in these countries is contributing to terrorism in this country but they would have found another excuse to bomb the **** out of us in this country..

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I know that a serving officer is not allowed to stand...nor would they.
The rumours going round Westminster do not concern me.
Serving in a theatre of war on active service to defeat terrorists under whatever umbrella, is an act act of loyalty to the crown, and our armed forces have to be praised for that.
I do not agree that our forces should be deployed in these godforsaken places and pray for the day when they come home safe and sound.
Your Nephew is in Iraq to make sure that on his return to this country, he has a safe haven in which to live in peace.
I would go for our troops out tomorrow but that is not to be.
I too have been on active service...and it scared the **** out of me.

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agree with you 100%

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where are you getting this tripe from? at this time the Lib Dems have said they will not take part in the by-election. Labour have said they are YET to decide. maybe you should consider changing username to Aesop.:tongueout

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I hope they decide to stand....I would have a bet on the outcome and change my name to 'winalot' :mosher::mosher::mosher:

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Although David Davis might not have the backing of David Cameron and the rest of the Shadow Cabinet, according to Newsnight he does have the backing of the B.N.P. in his one man crusade.

Stranger, and stranger.

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'Those around David Cameron are throwing their hands up in despair at his self-indulgence. “Has he gone mad?” one of the Tory leader's closest allies told me. Another strategist described it as a “massive distraction”, which will “all go pear-shaped”. Most Conservative MPs agree that Mr Davis is putting his own interests before those of his party.'

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle4123769.ece


I hope Gordon Brown doesn't forget to send David Davis a Christmas card this year.

He's probably so chuffed he might even splash out on a present too.:D

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Timesonline and newsnight..........very upmarket.

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well he should send cyfr one as well, cos hes gonna help him.:D:D though i notice hes conspicuous by his abscence from this thread. pmsl

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Absolute nonsense. Ask anybody who knows David Davis and they will tell you he did this because he believes in it. Nothing at all to do with trying to discredit Brown. If that was his goal, it would probably have been best to not resign, as currently the limelight is off Brown.

Cashman, why should I resign my membership of the party? I don't understand at all. :)

If Labour have any conviction in their erosion of liberty, they will field a candidate. If they feel they'll get another bloody nose, they'll back off. Lets see what happens.

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I think he is paving the way to becoming the next tory leader, must be a chess player

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thats also nonsense, folk know he believes in it no question, but also did it fer selfish reasons, he has well damaged yer partys leadership, no question about that. a very self centered man. i too hope labour stand, i will be very interested in the reaction of the local public to this pantomime.:rolleyes:

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I'm still trying to understand how this crusader for civil liberties, is also in favour of the reintroduction of the death penalty.

Although Derek Bently received a Royal Pardon and the conviction was eventually set aside, forty five years after he was hanged, they couldn't raise him from the dead, in order to restore his civil liberty.

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Well Rindi you have refered to public opinion on the 42 day issue and that most people are in favour, I may just add that even a bigger persentage are in favour of briging back the death penalty not just DD

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i honestly doubt thats the case jaysay, think theres very little differance in public opinion on those two things.

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I think we'll have to give it a little more time before we draw any conclusions.

It's only been online since the early hours of this morning, and some people may have time set aside to sleep, or go to work.:D

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I didn't know when I posted this, but Norman Tebbit does support the increase to 42 days.

'The peer, who was nearly killed by the IRA’s 1984 terror bombing in Brighton, said: “I think it would be wrong to take risks with the security of the UK.”

He stressed that the former head of Scotland Yard’s terror command Peter Clarke also backed the new powers.'

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...cle1248245.ece

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It now transpires that if Labour do not field a candidate, The Sun newspaper will! Ex Sun editor Kelvin MacKenzie has pledged to run and apparently the billionaire media mogul Rupert Murdock who owns Sky, 17% of ITV, Myspace, The Sun, The Times along with other media companies, has given him financial backing. He will run in agreement with 42 day detention without charge, even suggesting 420 days would be acceptable, and argue that there is no erosion of civil liberty in Britain as a whole.

I think it is a rather sad state of affairs if a newspaper has to fight the case because the government have no conviction in their policies. Although I do applaud the fact that Kelvin MacKenzie is running as it allows a contest to happen, and allows the debate about liberty and freedom to be had.

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That's not a contest - he wants David Davies to win. By being so outlandish, it's obvious that David Davies will win and then claim it as a moral victory too.

This byelection should not be allowed to carry on, it's a farce!

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Surely this is illegal , if not it should be , Rupert Murdoch is an American citizen ( he had to change his 'nationality' to enable him to have ownership of US media companies)

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So if Kelvin Mackenzie wins, will he actually give up his job as newspaper editor and become an MP or will he then resign and force another byelection?

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I guess you'd have to ask him that. He is the ex-editor though so he would not need to give that up.

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I didn't see the 'ex' bit.

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Here.............:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7452264.stm

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I think the whole sad state of affairs is making a mockery out of our liberties, and all the main political parties should be ashamed of themselves at the moment.

However, it isn't surprising that a newspaper has decided to play on the whole issue... so I won't hold that against them.

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I don't think anyone has mentioned it, and I don't suppose it's much concern to defenders of civil liberties, but the estimated cost from the public purse for this charade is estimated at £75,000-£80,000.

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Who cares?

At least if there's more than David Davis, and the candidate from the Monster Raving Loony Party, it will fill out the hustings a little.:D

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That is a little bit rich coming from someone who would lock people up on first impressions:(:(

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I have just read that Milliband urges that the government press on with the ratification of the EU Treaty despite the Irish rejection.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7453084.stm

Is this one of the points that David Davis is trying to bring to public attention?

The government stance appears to be:

'We dont care what you say, You will do as we say'

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In actual fact, I said I generally don't agree with the Act itself at all and believe it is the wrong way to go about 'fighting terrorism', but I can find justifications for an extension if needs be.

Mainly it was to annoy Andrew, I don't have a solid stance on the extension but I do have opinions on the Act in general, but that isn't the issue.

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and obamas in his pocket..

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I doubt Ann Widdicombe will be going up to Haltemprice and Howden to campaign, being the only Tory rebel who voted with the government in favour of the 14 day increase.

Strange how it's always the Tory women who have the biggest....oops, better not say that.:D

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Double D David once again going out on a limb. I personally don't think it's principle. His difficulty has been demonstrated by his double take on it. Taunting/goading Labour into standing to make it political but yet asserting it is a referendum on the issue of 42 days.

I don't think anyone political should stand against Double D. It should be a referendum against Kelvin McKenzie who said he may well stand and who is pro 42 days. Let's have Pro 42 days and anti 42 days.

Double D is opposed to the explosion of CCTV cameras, the central policy of our Local Conservative Council. Double D reckons may cameras serve no purpose. He said somewhere they solve less than 1% of crime. Does he mean the CCTV on Southwood Drive?

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Winston could never make up his mind. Tory, then Liberal, then back to Tory. Despite playing a heroic role in WW2, he was cast aside at the next election.

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Well thats novel a post that doesn't slag Britcliffe off, I'd send you karma but its to precious

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Are you suggesting I shouldn't embrace the words of a great politician for varying his opinion every now and again?

Why do those interested in politics do this? I find it quite peculiar that people play party support against each other, and think that it is a good reason to be rude to someone. If YOU were any good at being a politician you'd be being a bit more polite to those who have turned against you, seen as it's those like me that you need to vote for you. It isn't wise to be treating me as your rival, but then it isn't wise of me to suggest there is any logic to the Labour Party either... hence why I'd rather vote for ambiguous policies that are at least backed by intellectual men and women rather than the rabble of bumbling fools that are inaptly named Labour, the party that is increasingly letting down it's main portion of its voters by not actually doing anything good for them at all.

And are you choosing to forget that he may have been 'cast aside' in 1945, but he was back in office in 1951 and resigned in '55 with dignity, and nothing Labour did in the time between Churchill's times as PM will ever overshadow what he did. Sorry Graham, but I think you have made a ridiculous attempt to shun such a naturally talented Prime Minister which Labour can only, and will only ever dream of.

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For once blazey I agree 100% with every word, I think you have summed up g.jones exactly

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Blazey , I think you need to 'read-up' on Churchill , about his use of the British army on Welsh miners , and his use of the RAF to drop poison gas and other chemicals on the Iraqis and Kurds

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/PRchurchill.htm

[Churchill also served under David Lloyd George as Minister of War and Air (1919-20) and Colonial Secretary (1921-22). Churchill created great controversy over his policies in Iraq. It was estimated that around 25,000 British and 80,000 Indian troops would be needed to control the country. However, he argued that if Britain relied on air power, you could cut these numbers to 4,000 (British) and 10,000 (Indian). The government was convinced by this argument and it was decided to send the recently formed Royal Air Force to Iraq.

An uprising of more than 100,000 armed tribesmen took place in 1920. Over the next few months the RAF dropped 97 tons of bombs killing 9,000 Iraqis. This failed to end the resistance and Arab and Kurdish uprisings continued to pose a threat to British rule. Churchill suggested that chemical weapons should be used "against recalcitrant Arabs as an experiment." He added "I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes to spread a lively terror" in Iraq. ]

history repeats itself ....methinks

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I'm aware of this, but I am unsure what kind of reaction you are trying to get from me?

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just pointing out he wasn't all that he was painted ,

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I think we may just have been in the mucky stuff without him ;)

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I can't think of anyone who is perfectly painted. I'm certainly not, are you? Can you suggest anyone who really IS perfect?

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Well according to himself g.jones is blazey, or he'd have you think so:rolleyes:

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Churchill had his great moments and not so great. I think at his best he was herioc. It was just a bit of tongue in cheek when I wrote that. Not to be taken seriously. For six years Conservatives have called me all sorts of names. Your councillors boast of having voodoo doll of me. If I am bad, why don't you let others decide and concentrate on doing something positive for Hyndburn

Blazer I read yod comments. The current opposition has pushed through big policies, positive ideas, lots of them. There are more coming through that will change people lives. I am proud we have done so much and we will make this Borough a great place if given a chance. The main reason 13 Labour councillors don't like this administration is it is mostly negative or neutral. Name the big idea?

Posted from mobile

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As far as HBCs performance is concerned you have two choices, either you believe g.jones or you believe the Audit Commision, I know which I choose and it aint g.jones

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I second that!