Should kids go to jail?
 

Under-14s should not be held responsible for their actions and should never be locked up in children’s homes or young offender institutions, according to The Prison Reform Trust.
Their report calls for the criminal responsibility age to be raised from 10 to 14, claiming incarceration doesnt deter under-14s, since 75% of them reoffend within a year of release. Do you agree?

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is there no approved schools anymore?:confused:

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It seems a nonsence that kids at that age are walking around with knives and guns do these clowns not watch programs like last nights Panarama:(

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Of course 10 to 14 year olds should be punished. My 10 year old knows right from wrong so if he was caught with a knife or robbing someone he knows the consequences, therefore would expect punishment.

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my dad went to an 'approve skoo' in Warrington when he was ickle

back in the day they used to send kids who where 'naughty' to Brockhall because they thought there was something 'mentally' wrong with them, of course there never was and they usually ended up with some sort of mental disability with being around folk who did had a disability

if a woman got pregnant out of wedlock she was sent to Brockhall, if a kid stole some sweets, it was sent to Brockhall thus creating even more psychological problems

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I'm not sure........maybe boot camps of some description.......away from their home environment....with tough instructors....doing lots of physical things as well as perhaps community service......but stuff that will make them so tired that they will not have time to socialise with other young villains...or if they do socialise then it should be strictly monitored.
They should certainly be removed from the things that they enjoy...ps3s and such like.

I think that at 14 they KNOW what is right and what is wrong, they should be aware that if they do wrong there will be consequences.

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At what age do they propose that kids be held responsible?? Most kids know the difference between right and wrong at a younger age then ten even. Not sure prison is the right place to send them but they should definately know there are consequences if they commit criminal offences.

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And look at Brockhall now!! A haven for the YUPIEs of the 80's now they have families.

I think there was some medical research some years ago that set out to show that 'criminals' brains did work slightly differently to those who are law abiding, so let us not dismiss this theory until we have further knowledge.

In the meantime I would contend that it is criminal of the authorities not to remove 'criminal' teenagers from their home enviroment. they need to be exposed to other behavioral standards.Also society desperately needs protecting from them.
The cost of their removal should be borne by the families themselves who have usually, if only in part, created the problem.

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what happend to the days that when you comited a crime you was given the chouce of either serveing your country in the armed forces or going to prison an become a carear criminal. they still do that in america so why not here?

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Nori...I'm not quite sure why you picked out my post to quote......and I can't make out whether you agree with my sentiments or not.

I'm sure that the army do not want criminals in their ranks.....but I am sure that a spot of old fashioned army discipline would not go amiss....and if you do not agree with prison(you allude to this fact by stating that it produces career criminals)...what would be your suggestion to dealing with criminal behaviour?

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if the current punishments arnt working then the punishments should be made harder

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Well I see it this way, when I was a kid, I never met anybody who wanted to go back to borstal, but the equivelant these days is so much fun, they are queuing up to go back seemingly.

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When I was a kid I didnt dream of things like knives, guns,drugs etc.... Worst we did was kocking on doors and running away I think. Nowadays things like stealing is an "acceptable offense" because of bigger offences like murder or armed robbery. I disagree with this. To me a crime is a crime, and stopping the smaller ones will prevent people moving onto bigger ones.

Biggest issue I see is parents. Most people bring their kids up to be decent with morals and respect. Unfortunately there is a certain element that dont, and the kids copy what their parents do. Therefore they think its acceptable to behave the way they do. My kid is nearly 3 and he knows the difference in general terms between right and wrong because me and his mum instill that in him. He says please and thankyou, and is well behaved at public events (he actually sat quietly through a 40 minute wedding when even I was getting bored). I know not every kid is the same, but I am a strong believer that the actions of parents at a young age can dramatically change the mannerisms of a child

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Well done on having a child who will sit through a 40 mins service, many wouldn't.

The trouble is a small proportion of children/teenagers just don't know the difference between right and wrong, they simply have not been taught it.

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Yet another crackpot suggestion by an organisation that should know better.

If anything the age should be lowered to 8 years of age.

Instead of coming up with silly ideas and trying to hide behind “incarceration doesn’t deter under-14s, since 75% of them re-offend within a year of release”, they should be trying to figure out WHY THEY RE-OFFEND and put in place a scheme to put them back on the straight and narrow.

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I think we know why they re-offend...it is because the punishment doesn't actually seem like punishment........when it does feel like punishment to them perhaps it will deter them from criminal activity in the future.

They are treated like they are precious. They should be made to work for the people they have victimised......and if they make a mess of whatever they are asked to do they should be made to repeat it until they get it right...with little rest in between.

They should not be treated to trips to safari parks and such like, or given iPods......since when has rewarding bad behaviour ever been a good idea???????

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I have a couple of mates who are JPs, and they were talking one night about going on a tour of a juvenile facility, I think its call Lancaster Farm, bu I'm not sure, they were saying it did not surprise them at all that these kids wanted to go back into this facility as it was like a Butlins Holiday Camp. A lot of these youngsers have such an awful home life that 6 months in there is great for them, does that not tell us that the way forward is to hit the parents of these young offenders hard, may just have a better effect than sending their chldren for a free holiday

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My cousin went into Lancaster farm and it worked on him... He was sent there because he stabbed someone... he stole, he was violent and thought he could get away with it.. he went to Lancaster Farm and came out completely different.. he is now a fitness instructer and has a little one on the way :D

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I do agree with prisson for serias crimes, but sendin them to prison for shop liftin etc is a bit harsh, I quoted the wrong person I was ment to quote the boot camp post, sorry, I'm usein a libary computer at the moment an they keep playin up.

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Anyone who offends, especially violent crimes whatever the age should be sent down!
Kids should know whats right from wrong, and in the end as said many times before, it is down to the parents, to make sure that your kids know respect....these days many parents dont give a **** what their kids do or say, so IMO any child especially under the age of 16 who commit such crimes, their parents should be made to pay the same penalty!!

A child who is brought up in a decent environment would not dream of going out and stabbing someone nor doing any other crime,, but if that child is brought up the opposite way, that child does not know respect or right and wrong, so again parents are to blame.

lock em all up!!:angry:

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thats not allways the case, I was brought up in a good home so where my brothers an sister but we still whent out an broke the law.

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Fully agree with everything you say panther, I am still in contact with a lot of kids who I grew up with and to my knowledge none of them have been in bother with the law, save motoring offences, all except one that is and his father was in and out of the nick when we were young and his son was always in bother with the police, which I think proves everything, its how your brought up

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why?, what made ya do it?

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we did some of it just for the hell of it, but most of it was to rebel against our mum. I'm not proud of my criminal record now. but when I was a kid I ware everything the police threw at me like a badge and so did my brothers an my sister.

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Nori, I was the one who quoted about a boot camp...and i'm still not sure if you are for the idea or not. Maybe I'm thick !

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You know why they re-offend. I know why they re-offend. Most people know why they re-offend.

Sadly the Prison Reform Trust and the government do not and it is high time that they did.

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not always the case panther, many instances yes upbringing has a large bearing, my nephew is from a decent home, yet years ago he stabbed someone, was rightfully sent down fer it, turned out he aint wired up right, after clinical tests, how do you ya blame parents fer that?:(

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If someone like me can work it out...then why can't they???.....after all it isn't rocket science.

Oh silly me.....! I realise now, it is that not so common 'common sense'.

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I was a right little sod when I was little.I knocked on doors. I pinched milk off doorsteps. I sneaked in the pictures without paying.I twagged off school.I pulled the girls pigtails.I picked the crust off a loaf that I ws supposed to be bringing home from the shop.I was completely out of control. So how did I grow up to be a responsile adult who was never in trouble with the police? Was I just lucky or did my parents get a grip on their wayward son? I suspect it was my Mum and Dad Thank you both.

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Brooke kinsella, the brother of ben who was stabbed has said the right thing about these kids...
"If these young boys want to pick up a weapon and fight then we let them go over to national service and fight for a good cause."
See how tough they are then!
totally agree with that!

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While committing these feral youths to the forces might seem a good idea......I'm not so sure.......you need men who are self disciplined for good fighting forces......these youths have no self discipline....so would need a lot of licking into shape......the army of the 50's would probably do them a favour, but I'm not sure that the army of today is up to the job........and another thing, Why should the Army instructors have to police feral youths with hard attitudes?

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I don't think anyone thick margaret, I agree with milartry run boot camps like in america, not the hollday camps that they gettin put in. like I said if they should brink back national service. I live just round the corner from the army cadets not even that dose any good. I say boot camp not hollday camps and national service for sixteen and over

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Nori....that is the kind of thing I was talking about.......the kind of camps where they are woken at 6am and kept on the go until it is time to go to bed. Where there is discipline, and if they do not comply then they face the consequences.......where they can earn privileges. Where boundaries are set and more importantly kept.

No PSP machines to play on, no Wii, no Xbox, no TV either.....maybe a movie once a week...the rest of the time should be given to hard physical work or exercise.

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trouble with that margaret is yer talking sense, that will never do fer these numpties that dicate punishments.:rolleyes:

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And isn't that a real travesty? We could make a difference to how these young people view life and integrate into society......but we need to take radical action.....not just tinker around the edges of the youth justice system.

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I agree fully there margaret. the yough justice sistem is a mess becouse they don't know their backsides from their elbows. the mane reson why there is some much yough crime is becouse the kids are board and there arn't meny places for them to go and be kids. back in the 80s when i was growing up there was yough clubs more or les every where. why build another suppermarket? when what we need is more yough clubs

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As an ex-serviceman I can vouch for the effectiveness of military service at a young age, although in my case I volunteered to join the Royal Navy at the age of 16 years, 10 months and 3 weeks and also met some National Servicemen.

Although I wasn’t an out of control tearaway as a teenager, like most kids I had my moments. Bear in mind that the navy’s discipline was less rigorous than the army or RAF, nonetheless it was far from easy. Transgressions were instantly punished with things like once around the parade ground (about half a mile) with a Lee Enfield .303 rifle either at the slope, where, as you ran it bounced up and down on your collar bone or held aloft at arms length. Most people only ever sampled that once and I can’t think of anyone who got more than two doses.

Transgressions out of normal working hours were met with the order to don your gas mask and run at the double over a bank of shelters, there and back. You cannot breath fast wearing a gas mask. That was one cruel punishment and once was enough.

Our day started at 0630 with a full cooked breakfast between 0700 and 0730. Beds had to be stripped and the blankets and sheets folded in a particular way and stacked at the head of the bed in a particular fashion before going to breakfast. At 0745 we fell in for mess/galley/dining hall/offices/roadways cleaning until 0815.

0830 saw us all on the parade ground to either march off for technical instructions or more square bashing.

Stand easy (tea break to civilians) was a mere ten minutes at 1030. Dinner (sailors didn’t have lunch. That was for officers only) was between 1200 and 1300. On parade at 1315 for more technical instructions or square bashing until 1600. Tea of a slice of bread and jam and a cake was at 1615 and supper (which was dinner without a pudding) followed at 1830.

However for one day in four, work didn’t finish at 1600. There was loads of extra work, some of which meant keeping security watches right through the night until 0800.

Most of the spare evening time was used in washing clothes by hand (not even a washboard), ironing and swotting up on the day’s lessons.

There was tea available at 2030 for those who had enough energy to go and get it from the mess hall. OOW (Officer of the Watch) rounds at 2100 to check that the mess was not a mess, which meant that the mess had to be swept and floor polished before he came.

Lights out was at 2230 and when they said lights out they meant lights out.

Saturdays and Sunday were more relaxed except for those who were duty watch for that weekend, which was one weekend in four and one weekend in four as standby.

Of course there were also regular kit musters where your kit had to rolled up in a certain way to show your name on the item and laid out per regulations. Not forgetting Captains rounds where the mess got a thorough clean right through.

After just 6 weeks I became a model citizen or rather sailor and so did everyone else. We learned respect for authority and most importantly for each other.

The namby pamby “Human Rights” people would have had a field day back in ’54 and I doubt if that sort of regime could be forced onto today’s miscreants.

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Yes, Jambutty....that would keep the youths out of mischief......there was enough physical stuff in that day to make sure they were well and truly tired.

Nori, as for being bored, I don't subscribe to that argument at all......there are plenty of things to do if they want to put their minds to it.....there are organisations that can be joined(ok, so the young folk of today may not find it 'cool' to join the boys Brigade, ST John's, Scouts Guides, sea Cadets) sports facilities to be enjoyed...and as for money to do these things...well, they seem to be able to find the dosh for smokes/dope and alcopops/lager/cider etc...they can use the money for something else instead.

No the real problem is that they think they can get away with feral behaviour because society gives them so many mixed messages - they can have what they like, there are no consequences for any of their actions....and worst of all there are no boundaries.
They need to be taught respect for adults.....and yes, I do know that respect is a two way street.......but I respect the youngsters who show me respect......I have lived longer, experienced more of life and it's hardships and pitfalls.......I don't need to hear bad language...it isn't big, grown up, or clever.

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The real problem is that these youths are left to develop0 as they do something serious (and then not much).
I have said it before and I will say it again if we caught these kids early in life (and it could be done if we trusted our nursery teachers and reception staff more) and removed them from their inadequate parents we could stop the problem before it developed, save the state a lot of money and some poor soul a lot of heartbreak

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We stopped doing that in the early seventies polly and look where it has got use, up the creek without a paddle, and if anybody wants to put it right you have to climb over all the dogooders before you get anywhere near the problem, that is if you're allowed to get near it at all. The new fangled ways have failed, the softly softly approach does not work, so its time to go back to the old days where a copper clouted you round the ear, and the teached gave you the cane, and you got a good hidding if you spoke back to your parrents. There were no stabbings or shootings when we were young, so the way we were raised must have been right, and if it wasn't broke why the hell did somebody want to fix it in the first place

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Regardless of age youths today should be punished for their crimes,not holiday camps like they are now but proper disciplined places where hopefully they will learn respect and change their ways before it's too late.
If we leave them to carry on willy nilly then they are always going to be like that and will reoffend later in life.
A lot of it is the parents,like many on here i was brought up to know right from wrong and to respect others,half of the kids nowadays don't stand a chance unfortunately.

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There have always been parents who didnt give too hoots where thier kids are, I grew up with some, but there were enough detterents around to still keep many wayward kids in line, the parents also had a bit of respect for the police, I disagree that it is all down to the parents, how can it be when parents have less control than they did in years gone by, give some control back to parents, teachers, the police and as an afterthought, the prisons. Borstal, birch, tough prisons, hanging! all sadly missed in my opinion.

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You are right Derek, the parents have been emasculated over the last few years...children seem to have more 'rights' than adults...and this cannot be good for discipline.

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Yes they should go to jail.. and i dont mean these youth hostels... if they want to do a crime like stabbing someone then they should be locked up with the adults and they deserve everything that happens in their to them... IMO

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