What A Horrendous Twenty Four Hours
 

Watching the news at tea-time and I was horrified to hear that in the last twenty four hours there had been six fatalities due to knife crime. Five were in London and one in Bolton(the figure is probably higher now)
What can be done to reduce these horrendous figures?? I think it is time that all our elected MP's got together to look at a viable solution. Surely somebody can come up with a decent option without blaming the present goverment, after all do all MP's not have a say in what transpires??
Surely everybody whatever your political leanings must be horrified at these alarming statistics???

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On the local news a teenager stabbed in Bolton tonight whilst on his way to blockbusters:eek:

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saw a young lad that was covered in blood due to some scumbags glassing him in the face on sydney st last friday evening, apparently his face will be scarred for life, he was a decent young lad in my estimation, was in the observer today, that 2 have been arrested, one in custody, one on bail, whats all that about? bail fer 1 scumbag:confused: n people hope these ******* will take action!:mad:

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Theres barely a day goes by now without hearing about a stabbing,its terrible,the goverment really needs to get tougher with the sentences for knife crime and quickly or this is going to get worse and worse and its pretty damned bad as it is:(

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its ok pssing laws but we dont have enough police to enforce them

cut the money paying for troops to police other countries and get more police in our own country

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i cant edit my last post so typing an addition here

i have family in halliwell bolton and can tell you that stabbings are quite a regular event along with rapes, there has always been a high knife crime rate in bolton mainly halliwell way before it got all the publicity it has recently infact the most common form of knife crime at one point was machette attacks which involved people just walking into a pub and hacking somone up or dragging them outside and doing it, as usual though the over stretched police struggle to get there in time to catch attackers and the overstretched ambulance service struggles also.Luckily with cctv been used more these days more criminals get caught eventualy and evidence is recorded and altough i used to be strongly against a cctv society it does seem these days that there is a need for more cctv

one thing i would do away with is the crime attempted murder , wether or not the person manages to actualy kill somone should be irrelivant and they should be tried for murder and scentenced accordingly

gang culture is also becoming a problem and there should be extra years put onto a punishment should it be gang related

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That's a helluva good idea:alright: And get the police out of their cruisers and out on the beat.

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Can't do that it's a health and safety Issue:(

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That is not true.

We have a justice system that does not lock them up and a Government that does not provide the justice system with enough prison spaces.

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Totally agree with your sentiments Neil, you can pass all the new laws you wish, but if the powers that be in the courts don't carry out the correct sentances, then whats the point, If we haven't enough jails then build more instead spending billions of pounds supporting Bush in two wars that no one supports

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Maybe the answer might to go back to the Victorian ideas on prison like on the following site? It would to some seem cruel and hard and have some ranting at me but compared to what they get now then prisoners would not want to go back. It did have its bad points but I judged it based on the now and then principle.

http://www.learningcurve.gov.uk/cand...g09/g09cs3.htm

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There seems to be more chance of hell freezing over than prisoners being punished in the way they should be. Think it has something to do with THEIR human rights:rolleyes:

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oh yes it is and heres an example

when my partner had an attempted break in i got talking to the officer that turned up and he told me that on one occasion trouble kicked off in accrington and there was only a handfull of officers on duty so they took 3 vans and 1 car each with 1 police officer in each vehicle so as to make it look like there was more of them, you are right that he courts are too soft with criminals but we also need police and when i say police i dont mean these plastic cops or pcso's as i think they are called

i myself have seen trouble break out in accrington where the police are greatly out numbered and have had to call in officers from blackburn and other areas hoping that they havnt got their hands full already

if you realy think we have enough police wait until you need one at the weekend and see how long it takes them to turn up, ihope if you ever need one they are having a quiet night

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I have said many times that the law is not harsh enough, the recent spate of reported stabbings is just that, it has been highlighted by the media and so is reported more, you dont hear about 90% of the stabbings the rest of the time, I was once told that at weekend, until around pub closing, there were only 3 policemen to cover approx ten square miles, more are brought in at closing time, red tape ties police up for hours just to cover thier backside against the human rights brigade, it is all so very very wrong.

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I think we need to put all this into perspective and not get carried away. Knife crimes are hitting the headlines at the moment, but it's not as if they haven't always been with us.

On Radio 4 today they were saying that back in the 1960s ('68 I think), knife crime was so bad that the singer Frankie Vaughan met with 4 Glasgow gangs to try to broker peace and an amnesty on knives.

Yes it's making the news at the moment and we're all rightly concerned, but in a week or two there'll be another thing to be very concerned about.

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A sane response ... sometimes one has to look at the big picture ... while our consrvative govt. tell us that there is a need to get tough on crime, the stats tell us that, in Canada, violent crime is on the decrease ... about 500 murders per year ... not bad for a country of 30 million .... and many of thes crimes are commited by total nutbars, or po'd ex husbands, boyfriends etc. ... and it is the horror of certain crimes that steals the headlines and suggest that the problem is worse than it really is. When some gun toting retard kills 4 mounties, or when some other deranged idiot kills three of his kids, that really hits the headlines. But it obscures the fact that, in general, violent crime is on the way down.

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An afterthought ... most of the crimes of violence are commited in the major cities by poor immigrant youth .... but even here, pcism is catching on enough, that it is not appropriate to mention this too loudly:mad:

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African contries are draining the resources of western taxpayers by requesting and being given monatary aid which is regularly siphoned off to feed and cloth the peacocks in power. Magabi and his thugs are one of them.
I am not suggesting that poor immigrant youths who are causing the trouble are African or any other race.
Able bodied men criminals, who have commited and been found guilty of any serious violent crime should be offered as aid to help build the infrastructures, road,rail, and the like.
Live in Bashers as we were forced to live in and tents.
I am not suggesting an Ausie senario (They turned out an excellent country after all)
Anyone who destroys a country such as Rodesia needs all the help they can get, maybe the organising skills of the career criminals under strict supervision can be the saviors of African Countries.
Stop Monetary Aid and use the money to fund our own police, I cannot agree to cut down the strength of the armed services that would be fatal with the Nutters in charge of Countries like Iran.
Sand, sweat and sometimes hardship would be a better deterrent that watching Big Brother in our UK prisons?

I will probably get slated for this suggestion but I am of the age that I couldn't give a toss about the PC Brigade.

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Our otherwise stupid PM (that's Stephen Harper, not Joseph Harper as the Times has it) .... suggested tying aid to a real condemnation of Mugabe by the countries who accept our aid .... lots of chat over hear about limiting aid until they get their act together ... from what I read, England has swallowed more of the PCBS than we have. The people in la belle province are esp. critical of going overboard on "reasonable accomodation" ... and more power to them. Quebec is a distinct society in the Canadian political and social structure, in fact, and in law .... and they want to maintain that distinction ... England is no less a distinct society, but some seem to want to create a new, dumber kind England, when there was little wrong with the old one. If it aint broke, don't fix it.

I agree with you ... perhaps not so much about the military bit, too many Canadians dying in Afghanistan for SFA ... I don't give a flying you know what about the PC brigade either.

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not off me ya won't,WELL SAID.that man.:);)

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Eric? from Canada? and Roboy from Spain.. yep great stuff..suprised at some of the more "moderate" members have hailed agreement. so the stabbings in London and elsewere are a result of the Mugabe regime and the lack of British values..but at the same time The British are putting money to feed these regimes?... complete utter rubbish..and the people that have seconed this are a sham.

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Why is it that every time there is a spate of crims like these knifings the Government start jumping up and down and rushing through more legislation, its not more laws we need its using the ones we already have to the full. In fact its time the judges in their Ivory Towers joined the real world, took their collective heads out of their backsids and dish out the punishments to fit the crime and stop playing up to the PC and Human Rights brigades, ed of

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I think it is a joke blaming the justice system, and this applies to both the police forces, courts AND the prison system.

Why doesn't knife crime happen so often in some places and not at all in others? I haven't got the data, but it wouldn't surprise me if the majority of knife crime was occuring in the areas affected most by poverty, and poverty is a government problem, not the justice system.

You can blame the justice system all you like but when it comes to applying that to the fact that knife crime doesn't happen everywhere you will find that it doesn't answer all of your questions.

In regards to parties doing anything about this, the Conservatives (waits for the groan) are trying to strengthen families with the idea that it will also enable more people to work and provide for their families. If the family structure is breaking down then it becomes difficult for people to find jobs and keep them, therefore they often fall into poverty.

The only problem is finding jobs for everybody. I hate to say it but immigration has obviously had an impact on the number of available jobs and I know myself how difficult it is to find a job even with experience and qualifications, so I imagine the unskilled workers are having an even worse time.

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regardless of how much money you have any human knows it is wrong to stick a knife into somone else

poverty is not a reason or an excuse for somone to behave like an animal , they are just plain scum and scum can be found amongst the rich and the poorest of people

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read a report today,our wonderful home secretary jaqui smith is saying that will be more beneficial for those convicted of knife crime to be taken to hospitals,to see people who are in with knife wounds,so they can see the damage they cause, this would be more beneficial than sending them to jail. what planet is this " Silly Bitch" living on?:rolleyes:

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Yeah i'm sure they really care about the damage they have done!
If they did they wouldn't do it in the first place!
She is living in cloud cuckoo land along with the rest of the goverment.
The only way to stop it is to introduce tougher jail sentences.
Not difficult when you think about it.

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Quite a prosperous one, as she was one of the ministers who voted to keep the MP expenses system intact the other night. Still, statements like this show that she's worth every penny! :rolleyes:

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I find myself agreeing with Blazey on this one ... I don't think she is wrong when she sees a link between poverty and violence, even tho' scumbags exist at every economic level. I do believe that the incidence of violence is higher in the poorer areas of large cities .... you will of course find it elsewhere but not in the same concentration .... I don't agree with conservative solutions, this "strengthen the traditional family" bs, without ecoomic support will not work.

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I don't care what planet she is on, I want to know what drugs she is on so that I can get some:D

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So far this year we have had 71 in Oakland alone (I live about ten miles south) the 2007 tally was 127 , over the bridge in San Francisco the tally is 53 to date this year and 96 for 2007, in over 85% of the cases the dead were all young black or hispanic males, gang members, low education, poor employment records and coincidentally most were from either single parent or broken families with no father figures in their lives .
Don't know if stats in the UK reflect a similar situation or if its not PC to comment on them . :confused:

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Don't really have to comment ... the stats talk for themselves ... I did read somewhere that homicide is the leading (or second leading) cause of death among black males. Same thing happens in the GTA ... the only thing that draws any comment is when some innocent, usually white, bystander gets caught in the crossfire ... might be worth mentioning that when you cram a bunch of humanity into a small area the crap hits the fan in a big way ... and in the parts of the cities that are home to poor immigrants or minorities it is even worse ... like if you go to TO, avoid Jane and Finch area .... I think there is a line in a Billy Joel song, that goes something like "I walked thro' Bedford-Stuy alone": not a wise thing to do even on a good day:eek: And I wouldn't want to slow down at an intersection in some parts of Detroit .... but just across the water in Windsor, ON, which has a low number of immigrants and few minorities, the murder rate is low .... screw pcism, the stats do the talking.:hidewall:

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And no doubt the hospital will be Bates Memorial;)

What next; letting paedophiles into elementary schools to confront them with the innocence they will ruin if they continue in their wicked ways:eek:

And isn't there some law over there stating that MPs and ministers of the crown have to come from Earth:D

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Yes Eric........I'ts called a General Election to prove that they are actually human.
The sooner the better to get these clowns out of office. :tongueout

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gotta say,can see some mileage in the idea IF they are taken from PRISON to see victims,also take em to the morgue to see a stiff thats bin stabbed, then ask em if they like being inside, THEN tell em- next offence fer carrying will result in a damn site longer inside, there will always be a percentage that will not give a damn, but MANY will not re-offend of that i am sure, so the government should stop bullshi**** us get off the pot n get real.

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Know what you mean .... take a good look at the average bunch of politicians and anarchy starts to look attractive:D

Punish them at the polls .... we poor, ignorant colonials, in one day of voting, eradicated Canada's oldest political party, the party of Canada's first PM, Sir John A. Macdonald .... :alright:

I agree with the Chartists; annual parliaments, that will make the bastards accountable.

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:D:D Great line :D:D

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I just don't see the point of using victims, people who have already suffered more than enough, to do the work that government should be doing. And the "stiff" is the mortal remains of someone who has family and friends; if the corpse were that of someone close to me, I would not want it wheeled out as an object lesson to a complete waste of skin.

I don't know the answer, which is ok because I don't get paid mega bucks to know, but I still don't think getting tougher on crime is the complete answer. Look at the US, no democratic country is as tough on crime as the Americans are; and look at their crime rate .... it's through the bloody roof .... the thought of the chair, or lethal injection, or fifty years on your knees in front of bubba, doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent:(

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Agree with Eric on this one, why should victims of stabbings be used to show these morons that they are wrong?? Another case of the perpertrator having more rights than the victim IMO.

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know what ya mean eric, but ya are talking yanks here.:D;)

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the remark was tongue in cheek, the point being they need to get tough with the scumbags, unless of coarse you n eric wanna reward em wi an holiday or summat.:rolleyes:

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Course I will, how much is it not going to cost me??:) But do you not agree that the initial proposal is just utterly stupid?? Just wonder what sort of life this woman lives if she thinks that victims want visits from their attackers!!!

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A holiday would be great .... I'm sure one of HM's prisons would be more than happy to put them up. I just don't think punishment is too much of a deterrent to dedicated scumbags .... and cranking up the level of punishment does not seem to work; I mean, if the death penalty doesn't deter murderers, there's not much else in the way of punishment that one can try .... torture, hanging drawing and quartering, might be the way some want to go:rolleyes:; but I don't think the cutesie suggestion of your Home Sec will work, it's a joke.

And the answer to the problem is: I've no idea, I don't, as I mentioned, get the big bucks to come up with an answer .... but it seems that for all the millions that politicians get paid, they should come up with something better than a nickle and dime solution.;)

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Careful bud, Barb's loading her Smith and Wesson:hidewall:

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time we stopped messing about and brought back the death penalty which would also free up some space in the prisons, with advances in forensics its unlikely to get the wrong person so where theres no doubt execute them

the message should be - if you kill someone we will kill you right back

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There was something in the news this morning about giving these scum national service, too late! shouldve done that before, smith never lived amongst poverty that is her problem, she should try it, agree in part with blazey that it is not totally the justice system at fault here, but they certainly dont help, the poor people seem more likely to use knives, and the rich peoples weapon is the root cause, money! Imo the rich (and I put mp's in that category) stab people all the time, but do it with money, or lack of it, and the ability to earn it, many rich people are above the law because they pay smart arse lawyers and accountants to hide money and escape taxes etc. That to me is as offensive as using knives!

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I don't agree with National service. When it was about wasn't it sexist ? ( I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong on that count ). In the PC world we live in it would have to be done by both sexes. I don't want my daughter being forced in to doing something which is likely to be recreated as a punishment if she does nothing wrong. I want her to have choice.

Would National service follow the same rules as the armed forces ? What happens to the non-British people who are committing knife crime, is somebody going to be nieve enough to tell me it's only British citizens that commit these crimes ?

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Dave, I agree there would be issues with sexism, how many non-british people do you think will stay in this country if we had national service, imo the airlines wouldnt be able to cope. :eek::D

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I've been saying that for a long time Derek, lets see how much they love this country and its benefit system if they have to show their patriotism on the front line, either serve or get out

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Once again the core issue is being ignored, why do these kids feel the need to carry weapons never mind use them?? It is to late when they have killed somebody or been killed theirself. Time to tackle the real issue and try and stop the stabbings happening

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Unfortunately it would be easier to turn a super tanker around on a sixpence Bernie, especially when we have a Home Secretary who comes from the Planet Zogg and not Earth

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I think your a bit out of touch here. The younger generation of 'Theys' would probably love the idea of escaping their own culture to join the forces - particularly the females!

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easy answer to this problem... if a person is caught with a knife without due cause, then they lose one digit (fingers first, then toes then privates) each time .... bet we don't get to privates.

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like yer thinking, pity it will never be.;)

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The unfortunate reality is that there isnt much anyone can do to prevent knife crimes, or any kind of crime for that matter. Knifes, like guns are very easily concealed therefore catching someone with one is more or less impossible. The only thing the government can do is to rectify the sentancing for criminals that are caught with a knife.

One thing that can be done is for it to be illegal to sell knifes in fishing and gun shops. I dont know if youve seen them, but theres a shop in Accy that sells things like that. Yorkshire is full of them, as is Lancashire. It makes me wonder why police dont confiscate them from the shops owners and outlaw offensive weapons EVEN if they're meant for decoration.

Bring back capital punishment!

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Well yeah, i could just walk into the kitchen depo at debenhams and pick up a 10" blade right now. Thats how bad it is

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I was so mad when that thing was on Channel 4 about knife crime. Why? Cos a couple of days later there were lots of knife crimes going on. I think it just encorages some people to carry knifes- panching that everyone is carrying a knife...thus fueling it. It will be guns next and end up like crazy America well the America we are led to believe. Hope it doesnt get that far out of hand cos most people DONT carry knifes or GUNS and are quite sane and not out to kill us all.

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I agree. the more publicity you give to any type of crime the more certain sections of society will follow.
On of the reasons we have such a problem with teenage violence is the influence of American 'Teen Movies' They should be banned. If kids dont know about something they cant follow it.

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I think a suitable punishment for knife attackers is to be put in an Iron Maiden ( I think thats what its called ) ya know, that medieval torture device where you stand inside it, and everyday spikes are slowly sinking into you inch by inch. Peeeeerfect i think. Oh but dont stop, dont bloody stop. Id pay to see that.

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Maybe you should pay for some serious professional help .... it's ok to be in favor of harsher punishments; the debate about the death penalty is one that will probably never go away ... but this eager anticipation to revel in the suffering of another human being, goes far beyond punishment. Reminds me of something that Dr. Johnson (I think) said about Puritans. He observed that Puritans were opposed to bear baiting, not because of the pain it gave to the bear, but because of the pleasure it gave to the spectators.

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do you mean put them in an iron maiden or force them to listen to iron maiden??

Personally i like iron maiden but i doubt they do.......

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I prefer Iron Butterfly;)

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Well no, i dont mean for mine or anybody elses satisfaction. I meant so that these cretins can feel what its like to feel physical pain, which is similar to what the victims family feel emotionally. Im not a sadist or anything, i just think that these thugs deserve a punishment thats fitting to their crimes.

And eye for an eye

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Listening to Iron Maiden isn't a punishment its a treat!!:mosher:

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If your deaf:p

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The "eye for an eye" thing doesn't work ... and it is a distortion of a belief which also gives us "thou shalt not kill" and "turn the other cheek" (not that I've ever been in favor of cheek turning; but then again, I'm not much into eye gouging either). Capital and corporal punishment pander to a nasty side of human nature: the side that sold out the collosium on game night, that drew the crowds to Tyburn for the hangings, that filled, and still fills the ranks of death squads.

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I will pretend you didn't say that!:D

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A perfect example of the fuzzy thinking of modern day liberals.

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[quote=markuze;607163 It will be guns next and end up like crazy America well the America we are led to believe.[/quote]


Ah, you have stumbled into the truth. Having for years been spoon-fed an almost universally negative diet by the press and others of influence, it is hardly surprising that the views all too often displayed on this site are as they are. However, from firsthand knowledge and experience, let me assure you that the vast majority of Americans lead very tranquil lives, despite violent crime hot spots and periodic aberrations, which are present in all civilized societies, including your own.

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But one of several fine side arms in my possession.

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Well, this week they seem to have done something of an about-face on self defense. From what I have read, it isn't a return to the old common law Castle Doctrine - but it's a start.

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Well I think this was the only country where you could break into someones home and the poor sod who is the victim could end up in jail, If somebody is in your house illegally you don't want to spend a few minutes passing the time of day with he scum bag, and you haven't got the time to think if I beat this b*****d up I may be in trouble, you act first and ask questions later, an Englishmans Home is his Castle and whoa betide anyone who enters illegally:(

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I agree totally with this statement Barb! Really ashame that the world thinks we are overrun by homelessness, poverty, crime, and shoot-outs at noon for nostalgias sake. Oh, on the other hand, we are not all filthy rich carrying diamond studded little dogs around Rodeo Drive.

Most of us are fairly normal, law-abiding citizens trying to understand, as the nature of this thread, why the world has gone so out of control! It's an incredible heartache/heartbreak!

Brian

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Simple answer, lock people up who carry knives before they get the chance to cause damage. No use giving them a slap on the wrist.

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42 days sentence ? ;)

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No doubt ... and it seems you still have your sense of humor;)

But if you wish to fire across the Atlantic, may I suggest something with a much higer muzzle velocity .... I own a very fine Winchester, which fires a 22-250 bullet at a muzzle velocity that makes it almost possibe to put a round into orbit:eek::alright:

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You have to remember Brian that most people in the world get their image of America from the US news media (and we all know that good news doesn't sell) and from Hollywood ... not too many on here know the US first hand ... I get over to New York fairly often, and apart from gallons instead of litres, and miles instead of kms, it is difficult to tell whether you are in Ontario or NY.

Having said that, if the US wishes to act as the world's policeman, then you have to take the flak that comes with the job and with the high profile that comes along with it. Especially as it is a toss up whether it is more dangerous to walk thro' Baghdad or Detroit.:rolleyes:

How's your snake by the way? I hope you found a way of getting rid of it without killing it.

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Indeed, and where has this all got us. In Canada, the great red north, crime rates are going down rapidly ... In Kingston, a drop of 11% last year!

And it was fuzzy modern day liberal thinking that kept Canada out of Iraq ... vive Jean Chretien:theband: ... and I am willing to bet that there are many over the pond who wish that Blair had told GW to take a flying you-know-what at a rolling donut, instead of tagging along with the US sponsored invasion.

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The Home Secretary was misquoted here .. she wasn't suggesting that people who had committed a stabbing would visit hospitals, more those that were caught carrying blade weapons, and more to talk to doctors, nurses, paramedics, etc. to try to stop and think what could happen if they ever used their weapons.

What amazed me on the statistics they have just done for the first time on this crime is that the highest level was in South Wales and Cumbria, not the cities.

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I think that you could make an offensive weapon out of almost everyting BB, Take an ordinary ten a penny pen, stick that in someones neck and if your lucky it will have the same effect as an 8 inch bush knife, basically its not the weapon its whats between the persons ears who has the weapon thats the problem, and why do they need to have a weapon in the first place

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A pen would work well .... Joe Pesci used one to good effect:D