Work for dole
 

Re: Work for dole
 

Why shouldn't they work for the dole money they are getting. I've spoken to many people who are on the dole and they come out with the comment "I don't get paid till next week or whatever" Dont get PAID??????????????? Just where does that come from?

What are they getting paid for????

To me they are getting money for nothing, and to say they don't get paid is taking the mick.

I couldn't work during the day as I had disabled child, but I took on evening work when my husbund was at home to look after my child, so that we both went out to work.

People fiddle the system, and lets by honest here............if there parents fiddle it and brag about it then they will do it too won't they?

Re: Work for dole
 

I'm all for the proposals but just wonder where the jobs are going to materialise from, I understand the work in the community bit but surely that could only carry on for so long!!

Re: Work for dole
 

Re: Work for dole
 

Creating the jobs would be easy. they don't have to be in the private sector what is wrong with old idea of public work for public money?
William Wodruff in his book The Road To Nab End talks about his father who whilst unemployed applied for assistance and was given the task of clening the Queen Victoria statue on Blackburn Boulevard.
I seem to remembeer my grandmother talking about Whitebirk Drive being built by unemployed men
Now I dont for one minute think we need any more roads built but everywhere you go there are weeds growing and verges that need more regular tending than they currently receive. As we all know our hospitals desperately need more cleaning and look at practically any public building and you will see dirty windows. So many times we are told that projects can not go ahead because there is not the money to pay for the labour yet we are paying peop0le to do nothing?!!!

We need to be sensible of course people who genuinely become unemployed need time to seek work but after about months I would have thought most genuine people would want to get back to work

Re: Work for dole
 

Maybe we should start a list of what these people can do,baring in mind that thousands of people in work are claiming more in benefits than people who are not.

Keeps the unemployment figures down.
so before we get into another 500 thread post,post a list because I can't think of anything:gooddog:

Re: Work for dole
 

See my posting above and that is without spending any time thinking.

I know the private sector - particularly new fledgling companies could make use of subsidised labour and this in turn would stimulate the private sector ecconomy

Re: Work for dole
 

When the question of working for welfare came up in Ontario it recieved the cold shoulder it deserves .... most Ontarians told their MLAs that they should spend their efforts to create real jobs, instead of make-work for the recipients of social aid. And, would making welfare recipients work for their meagre payments not take work away from the working poor?

Re: Work for dole
 

Whilst I agree with a lot of what you say can you really see it working in this day and age? The people who really know how to play the system will be able to tell you just how much they are entitled to for basic living!!
To me it is just another clutching at straws ploy that hasn't been thought out it would need stringent monitoring and at the end of the day it takes a lot of them all their time to get out of bed to sign!!

Re: Work for dole
 

See my posting above and that is without spending any time thinking.

That is quite obvious.

Re: Work for dole
 

i think it should be done as to many people who can work and are fully able to work, no young children etc but they just cant be bothered so maybe if they had to work for it than they would just find a full time or part time job,

Re: Work for dole
 

I see you can not justify your criticism

Re: Work for dole
 

Yes the real workshy will stay in their beds and keep to their daytime tv. However it would shou us all who the real unemployed and would be of great help to employers so we know who is at an interview 'cos the dole sent them' and those who are prepared to work and along the way society would benefit.

If we assume that all of us who pay tax and NI and all of those who are now retired and have paid the aforementioned are the real employers of the unemployed I doubt that many of us would choose to continue paying dosers to do nothing

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But where are the jobs going to come from?? Especially round here most major employers have gone!!!

Re: Work for dole
 

So how are we solving the problem?? The ones who really have no intention of working still lounge in their beds!!!

Re: Work for dole
 

I see you can't come up with a viable list.Just tell me what they can legally do.:alright:

Re: Work for dole
 

think the whole idea would be much better creating "Real Jobs" then fer me when those are in place, bounce the bloody lot, that CAN work but don't want too. this to me is just another bull idea to massage the unemployment figures, n theres obviously people to dumb to see it.:rolleyes:

Re: Work for dole
 

Why should they work for their dole money?
Take the dole money away and make them work for real wages,paying tax and NI.
If any are prepared to work for their dole money then surely they would be willing to work for more?
It just seems nonsensical to me!

Re: Work for dole
 

They should work for their dole money to earn self respect and the respect of their families.
At a meeting earlier this week a woman approached me with a problem about a14 year old boy who has been excluded from school. He is now languishing in the local Pupil Referal Unit. He has three generations before him who have never worked, just lived off the state. Clearly the boy sees no point in being in school as he has no intention of ever working for a living.
These are the type of families who have to be jolted out of their complacency and made to take responsibility for themselves.
Because we live in a high technology society we are never going to have work for all as in paid employment, we will have to create jobs, things that are socially desirable.

Re: Work for dole
 

Just a little wonder, on TV this morning it aid that 17% of young people are not working or in any kind of education, the government figures are only about 7%. I just wonder if anybody saw the program on Thursday night on the BBC about benefit cheats, its amazing just what lengths some people will go to cheat the system. I Woman and her cousin were claiming beneits in about 195 different names, they had an house set up like an office and they were treating it as a fll time job fidling the state, I think they had picked up about £2.7 million over 10 years, they are both doing 8 years for fraud

Re: Work for dole
 

working for dole payments ?
as all the previous posts, doing what ?
members of society who have been placed
on community service rather than recieve harsher penalties
are turning up to be told not enough work to do today
i think that just about sums it up for me

Re: Work for dole
 

Somebody seems to have had a bit of a U-turn, what a shame I admired what you said in an earlier thread.

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...s-39733-5.html

By the way less of the 'these people', type grouping, they, you and I, (i.e. We), all belong to the same wicked society that allows the employers to fiddle their taxes and employ people on the black economy.

Re: Work for dole
 

These sort of posts really get up my nose. I have worked for the last 17 years, paying into the system. For the last 2 of those, as a single parent paying £500 a month childcare whilst getting no working tax credits as I was above the payment threshold.

Couple of months ago, was made redundant and now receiving the grand total of 60.50 a week and 46 ish for my child.
Out of that I have to pay an additional 150 a mont for my house that I have lived in for the last 3 years.

I would love to work, however whilst my child is only part time at school, getting a job to fit around that is difficult. Its frustrating as I have years of experience, worked hard to climb the 'career ladder' and have developed skills that I could be using.

I doubt I am the only one. There are a alot of single parents that are in this trap where they cant work. If the Government or companies looked further into remote working etc, I think this would improve the situation no end. Set up costs are minimal and there are scores of skilled workers that would welcome the opportunity.

Strings like this just demonise those claiming benefits. Some of us have little choice

Re: Work for dole
 

thats a sample of society that the bitch with a state funeral created only me,not much ya do about it.:rolleyes:

Re: Work for dole
 

That’s my view too Eric.

The real problem is the minimum wage. Having a minimum wage doesn’t encourage some employers to pay the going rate for the job because they know that as long as they pay the minimum wage the law cannot touch them.

Re: Work for dole
 

Well said Less, probably more people fiddling taxes and EXPENSES in this country than those fiddling benefits. Some of those are the ones who make the decisions that say those on benefits have to work. :rolleyes:

Re: Work for dole
 

Still no list then Polly - You must be having a long hard think.Good for you.

Re: Work for dole
 

No, I just decided that a list would be wasted on someone who could not read the existing one and could not string enough words together for a couner argument.

Re: Work for dole
 

Strings like these make people wonder where there money is going. I don't think anyone is having a go at anyone genuinely unable to work because of family circumstances, certainly not me as I am only one step away from it myself
Tele working would be ideal for many, including the disabled (though there should not be an pressure to force those genuinely unwell back into the workforce) The amount it would cost would be negligible compared with benefits that might be paid over a number of years.
I think many, particularly small employers would go for the idea. I know virtual PA's are always popular

Re: Work for dole
 

Your spelling says it all.:hehetable

Re: Work for dole
 

That is a very poor answer to what Onlyme posted, she has worked up to being made redundant not long ago and is now struggling on very little money to support her and her child.
As for having to give up work due to family circumstances you have no idea until it happens!!!
So you are still in favour of people being made to work for dole money because it will be beneficial to small bussiness's?? Sorry that is out of order, if you are going to employ somebody pay them a proper wage!!!

Re: Work for dole
 

I agree wholeheartedly Bernie.
What is the point in saying to somebody work and you will get your dole when they could be working part or full time for a proper wage.

Re: Work for dole
 

The jobs just aren't there to be had!!! The problems stem from most of our major employers closing down, so the answer is to encourage business back into the area. People can't seriously be expected to work for sixty pounds a week!! Why not bring the workhouses back?? That is the way it is heading!!!

Re: Work for dole
 

Surely it's better to have people working full stop?
When i started the job i have now i was only on a small wage but gradually gained more hours the longer i was there and put in the overtime.
If people are getting 60 quid a week dole then yes they should be made to work for it if this ridiculous scheme gets the go ahead.

Re: Work for dole
 

they will probably get em piggybacking people from burnley to blackburn hospital,:rolleyes: that should keep the figures down.:rolleyes:

Re: Work for dole
 

Think you have answered your own question there , the only reason there are no manufacturing jobs is because people prefer to buy cheap Chinese made imports , Does anyone know what percentage of non-food goods ASDA/Walmart sells that are made in the UK ? maybe 5% .
How many times have there been complaints about Accrington becoming Pound shop central ( all imported tat) and the closing of high brand shops because folks don't patronize them .
How many parents spend hundreds of Pounds every Christmas on imported toys and how many would be prepared to pay a few pounds more if the Toys were British made . You cannot have it both ways , if you want decent wages you have to be prepared to pay a decent price for goods and services .

Re: Work for dole
 

Sorry but I disagree, the only reason there are no manufacturing jobs is because the manufacturers have gone for the cheapest supplier. Think most people would be prepared to pay that little bit more to get some jobs back locally. I for one most certainly would!!!

I don't know how long it is since you lived in these parts or if ever you did but in recent years a lot of local factories were making parts for cars. Rist Wires and TML were quite big employers and one has long gone and the other not far behind. Even Nori (trading under another name) is cutting back drastically, so no I do not accept that the consumers are at fault just the greedy manufacturers!!!

Re: Work for dole
 

Couple of arguments against this. Firstly housing benefit is means tested, so any wages I receive would go straight to housing benefit first, before hitting my pocket. Therefore, If I had a part time job at minimum wage, I would have to work approx 20 hours before I even touched the dole money, another 10 ish hours to repay the dole money. Out of that, I would also pay 70-80 for childcare to cover that (although working tax would pay 80%).

Bearing in mind, I have worked for the last few years with a knee condition with which I could go on disability for life (or until a series of operations that arent guarenteed to fix the problem), any extra money that I would get on disability gets knocked off housing benefit automatically so I would be no better off. Also, my disability would appear on my work record, which, although I appreciate there is meant to be no discrimination, I would prefer no to take the chance.

Also, the value of training that I have undergone over the years is huge. If I was a brain surgeon in the same circumstance, would you ask them to work in the community, or as a virtual pa for 60 quid a week? In a country where the Government complain there is a skills shortage etc, surely they should look to make it easier for those that desperately want to work in a job that they have strived for?

I find it embaressing telling people I am unemployed (And I dont mean to offend anyone here). The treatment you receive from the job centre etc is disgraceful, and is only the start of strangers who know nothing about your circumstances judging you and looking down on you. In fact, when I went for my interview with the 'Lone parent adviser' (what joy that was!), after about half an hour of her 'speaking' to me she asked for the necessary paperwork to complete the claim including my last pay slip. She looked at it, paused for a few seconds, and then apologised saying "I'm sorry, I;ve been talking to you like this, and you pay more tax than I earn a month". Its a shame people think they have the right to talk down to you whatever situation you are in, God forbid they find themselves down on their luck on day

Re: Work for dole
 

Your quite right Polly, Benipete should take the effort to read your list.

Well Beni consider your wrists slapped and in case you didn't understand the list I have placed it below:-

• Cleaning the Queen Victoria statue on Blackburn Boulevard.
• Re-building Whitebirk Drive, no, even you’ve rejected that one.
• Cleaning Hospitals.
• Window Cleaner for public buildings.

If that is a list polly I wouldn't send you to the shops with it you'd get lost.:)

By the way, why did you do such a dramatic U-turn?

I preferred the other polly.

Re: Work for dole
 

You have totally misread me. I would never advocate anyone who has genuine reasons for not working, being h assled into doing so.

The problem in this country is not people who find themselves with problems after working for x amount of years the problem is the hardcore unemployed, the wont work cant work brigade, these are the problem.

I would also suggest that you have no idea what is like to work 12 h ours a day 6 days a week and a few on Sunday to keep a famil when the other partner can not work and be constantly turned down for any help because you are working, but one gets on with it and works around family circumstances.

Re: Work for dole
 

No u turn as such. My first thought were that we have enough pulic jobs to employ people on and then I though of a number of people I know who are runing small business and can not make the jump to being larger businesses. They are usually held back by lack of staff. Since Nat Min Wage was introduced it has made employing someone a major leap and for the newer businesses it is a leap into the dark, so I can see that subsidised labour would be of great help. I also believe that in small businesses employees are offered a wider range of job experiences and therfor benefit more.

In a capitalised, computerised, mechanised society we are never going to see full employment we need to think out of the box and agree that it is imoral for the working population to keep able bodied citizens (this does not include those with home responsibilities)

Re: Work for dole
 

A complete U turn, no use adding as such, I now see you going from being a benevolent employer to one that wishes to take advantage of the unfortunate as well as the lazy, (the unfortunate will resent being grouped with the lazy and the lazy won't give a monkey's, they will find a way around it).

In the earlier thread you claimed to pay more because you got a better work force, created 'real' jobs and saved yourself the hassle of having to replace discontented staff.

Now you want to force people into working for struggling companies. Not all companies will be worth working for and will treat their staff accordingly.

I can also see some poor unfortunates working for bullies, being forced to work in perhaps unsafe conditions or take abuse, because if you don't do what I tell you to I will tell the dole your refusing to work and get them to stop your benefits.


:)

Re: Work for dole
 

Ok lets look at this logically. An average family of 2 adults and 2 children. They would require a 3 bedroomed house to live, rent approx 500 ( and thats cheap). On benefits, approx 125 a week, plus approx 25 council tax, 20 gas, 20 electric, 5 water so total of 195 without food, clothing etc. lets round it up to 200 to make it easier.

A worker or minimum wage of £5.52 would have to work approx 50 hours a week to get a net income to purely cover the outgoings detailed above. This is above the national directive of 48 hours maximum. Of course, this would mean the family would be naked and starved.

Of course, one person in this family could be classed as hard core unemployed, he/she is fit and able to work. The other is excusable as they are looking after the children.

Does it make sense them going back to work? No. And the Government still wonder why we have children being fed cheap processed food, families buying cheaper foreign imports, malnutrition, problems with learning, problems with crime and so on.

Doesnt really take a genuis to work it out

Re: Work for dole
 

disagree, Conceit,Arrogance, Ignorance, i can accept, but Shame no.;)

Re: Work for dole
 

Incidentally, missed out amounts from working tax etc. Looking at the entitled to website, there COULD be an additional 160 ish weekly with child benefit for 2, housing benefit etc. Sounds great until we carry on with outgoings:

Statistics show approx 115 a week shopping for a family of four, not including clothing. So that leaves 45 a week. Travelling to work and back, lets use a basic of 1.50 each way for buses, 15 on a 5 day week.

That leaves us 30 quid purely based on essentials. And those benefits are based on the MAXIMUM that could be granted.

Re: Work for dole
 

Ok if I misread some of your post I apologise but I certainly didn't misread that you think small business's would benefit from this scheme.

You woud be very wide of the mark to suggest I have never worked twelve hour days to keep my head above water whilst my husband was ill and unable to get any top up benefit to his incapacitiy benefit. The only difference to your situation being I was working for an employer who didn't pay minimum wages (before the laws were changed) so was working damned hard for a pittance and you are trying to keep your business going. Whilst I wish you every success please do not assume that I have not and am not struggling.

Re: Work for dole
 

Nat Min Wage

Sounds Chinese to me

Re: Work for dole
 

Sorry that quote was me not Vicky:confused::confused:

Re: Work for dole
 

You misunderstood me.
I wasn't referring to everybody on benefits just the dole dossers who have no intention of working.
I know exactly what its like at the job centre.
I had to stop work for a while a few years ago to care full time for my father.
When he was well enough for me to go back to work i went to the job centre and felt like i was being lumped in with all those who have no intention of getting a job.
Anybody without a genuine reason not to work should be made to work imo.

Re: Work for dole
 

Problem being that every job is covered by someone. You force those on the dole to do it for the 60 quid, why would employers then pay someone minimum wage to do it???

Even statur cleaning, windown cleaning, gutter clearing that people have mentioned have someone assigned to do this. Therefore just making someone else redundant and the problem worse

Re: Work for dole
 

Not every single job is taken!
I'm not suggesting getting rid of somebody just so a doley gets a job.
All i am saying is that if there is a vacancy somewhere fill it.

Re: Work for dole
 

Survey participants received an average of 30.7 applications per vacancy with the FMCG trade, at the top of the range, receiving an average of 112 applications for each job

Just one of a few stats

Re: Work for dole
 

At council level there are lots of places where we could have additional jobs, just the council cant afford them. I don't believe there is anything wrong with having people do some work for their money, if they're unemployed for a long period. We just have to be careful to not take jobs away from people that actually want them.

Re: Work for dole
 

Are you Irish?:confused:

Re: Work for dole
 

Oh God! Cyfr is getting involved, there goes the thread!

Never intends to do a proper days work in his life, managed to get a pass to a red brick University, (It's only a fancy college for goodness sake), and as usual talking from no experience, come back in 30 years when instead of all your theories on how to keep you on the gravy train have come to nothing, wake up now and realise everyone and every job is essential for the well being of each of us.

None of us want to clean the streets, but fortunately there are people that are willing to work for the Councils and clean our muck away, don't demean this merry band any further by forcing them to work alongside dollopers that would only disrupt their work pattern.

Re: Work for dole
 

Bear in mind that if you are on min wage you would be entitled to some housing/council tax benefit aswell.

Basically

couple as stated

one working 37 hrs per week min wage
partner - home looking after two kids

entitled to over £140 tax credits, £31.35 child benefit, approx £5 council tax benefit and you would be entitled to some housing benefit/local housing allowance dependant on whether you are in private or social housing rented property of approx £25 per week

Re: Work for dole
 

IN CANADA THE ONES WHO ARE NOT WORKING HAVE TO COLLECT ANY CANS AND GET THEM WEIGHED THEN THEY GET A FOOD VOUCHER ONLY IF THEY DO NOT GET ANY OTHER MEANS OF MONEY
THEY HAVE TO WORK OR GET NOTHING.
THAT DOES SEEM HARSH BUT THERE ARE PLENTY COULD BE DONE BY THE PEOPLE ON THE DOLE AS WAS SAID,PLENTY OF STREETS WITH WEEDS,GRAFITTI ON WALLS,PLAY AREAS COULD BE SMARTENED UP
WITH PAINT AND MENDED AS WELL,THERE LOTS COULD BE DONE BY THESE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN ON THE DOLE FAR TO LONG,SOME ARE GENUINE CASES OTHERS JUST WAIT FOR THEIR GIRO EVERY TWO WEEKS.WHAT ABOUT THE STREAMS AND RIVERS THAT FULL OF OLD JUNK GET THEM CLEANED UP.
:jimbo:

Re: Work for dole
 

what about helping build an integrated transport system cut the costs tenfold.after seven weeks the grafters get a permanent job.save importing foreign workers to do the job.....:rolleyes:

Re: Work for dole
 

You're right every job is essential. Where you get the rubbish of me never intending to do a proper days work I don't know. Lots of people said the same, not sure why you decided to have a personal attack on me.

Re: Work for dole
 

what do you do with those who have spent thousands furthering education who can't get a job? put them on the hod? also ya aint said about the non grafters.:confused:

Re: Work for dole
 

And what part of Canada would this be? Alabama? There is no national system of welfare in Canada; funding for welfare, in most cases, is a Provincial responsibility and the delivery of the services is the task of municipalities.

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they wont be here because the latest figures show most graduates are emigrating to australia;)non grafters keep them working on the railways;):rolleyes::D

Re: Work for dole
 

that depends what they graduated in, i know quite a few people fer who australia is not a good move, in fact london is the place fer their talents or paris.;)

Re: Work for dole
 

This all boils down to one fundamental question:
Is it right for people to claim from the state whilst offering nothing back, in other words for them to live off the rest of us?

Sickness and family problems are not intended to be included in the above

Re: Work for dole
 

In some cases yes. I have ploughed a shed load of money into the state, even without my family circumstances, I think I have more than earnt my right to have access to a decent welfare system.

The proposed changes will affect a few thousand, a drop in the ocean. If the Government wanted to seriously change things, they would look outside the box instead of hitting out at those that soceity looks down on anyway.

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I am glad you dont think the self employed should be penalised

Re: Work for dole
 

Why should the self employed be penalised?
You are working the doleys aren't,that is the issue.
Nobody should be penalised except the work shy.