The Right To Bear Arms
 

Do you think anyone in Britain should have the right to have a gun & ammunition in their home,even with a liscence?After the tragic event in Birmingham inwhich a young toddler was shot by his young sister,i think maybe it's time for zero tolerance as far as i'm concerned.

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well i think the police should be armed, seems to work in europe n the locals there seem to take more notice of em.

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I wouldn't mind a gun, though the incident you are talking about was an air rifle and they are classed differently aren't they(?). Depends what you are going to use it for. I think if you are a member of a shooting club or whatever then why not.

Only irresponsible people cause accidents, and only evil people intentionally cause incidents. Both aren't really preventable. If you want something like that and you know the right people, you'll get one regardless of any law.

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Many people I know have guns in their homes. To get a gun in Canada one needs and FAC (firearms aquisition certificate) from the local police ... they run a check on your background for any criminal offences ... you also have to take a gun safety course .... and there are strict rules for safe storage of firearms and ammunition. You have to show your FAC when purchasing a gun or ammunition. Hand guns are difficult to get (legally). Licences for hand guns are usually only issued to members of pistol shooting clubs; and the punishments handed out for illegal possession of handguns are very stiff indeed. Many people in Canada are hunters and own rifles and shotguns for the purpose of hunting, which is strictly controlled by Federal and Provincial Governments. As a rule, you find more homes with guns in them in the rural areas of our country.

Sorry about the ramble; but I support the legal possession of firearms if there is a good reason for having them .... and I argue that hunting is a good reason ... I do believe that there should be strict controls on ownership and storage of weapons. My guns are stored in locked cabinets; one, with a bolt action, has the bolt removed and stored seperately. Ammunition is stored in another locked cabinet. The keys to both cabinets are locked in my safe. It is tragic that such an accident happened; but the question begging for an answer is: "how the hell did a loaded weapon get into the hands of a child?"

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agree wi blaze on this, if people want a gun they can easily obtain one, also to get a license ya have to do it through the police (or ya had)? its the thin end of the wedge fer those that shoot fer n hobby. ok they should be under lock n key in the home, or imprisonment should result.

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. It is tragic that such an accident happened; but the question begging for an answer is: "how the hell did a loaded weapon get into the hands of a child?"[/quote]
The childs father turned his head for a moment....thats all it takes.

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The childs father turned his head for a moment....thats all it takes.[/quote]

Couldn't have been much happnin in the father's head if he leaves loaded weapons lying around ... sheesh:mad: There are several things that don't mix well with guns: drugs, booze, and kids come quickly to mind. I have guns in my home. I never have loaded guns in my home.

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From what I read the father was taking practice shots in the garden of his home when his mobile phone rang. He put the loaded gun/rifle down to answer the phone and the child got hold of it with these tragic consequences.

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so that makes him shooting in front of his children.:(

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This brings to mind Danny27 and his BBgun shooting/scaring cats in his back yard

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The right of people not to be shot far outways the right to own a gun.. I mean a real gun not an air rifle... the scum that shot those kids in Dublane had a licence to own guns..as did the nutcase that shot all those people in Hungerford, why should anyone apart from the Police, have the right to own something that has only one use..to kill

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You have an understandable viewpoint Eric, but Britain is vastly different to the USA or Canada. There are very few areas that are safe to "hunt" and even fewer species that can be "hunted."

If Britain allowed possession of firearms, they would almost certainly be used on burglars or the louts that intimidate normally law-abiding citizens from outside (or inside) of their own homes:o

We live in a culture that prohibits the use of force, even a walking stick:rolleyes: to protect our home and families. The police are unconcerned that you hear burglars downstairs, they make an appearance 36 hours later to record any missing items - - -

Most Brits would welcome the right to arm themselves but the courts would be clogged with criminals suing them.

"Honestly your 'onour, I were persuing my vocation in robbery an' this fella 'ad the audacity to pull out a gun and fire at me just when I got to raising me knife against 'is throat like:mad:"

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Think it was in last nights Telegraph and from what I read yes he was using the rifle in front of his kids:( Not just that but to leave it unattended is way out of order:mad:

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If I heard someone breaking into my home, I am well within my legal rights to confront him with a loaded firearm .... If he attacks me, I can legally shoot him. If, however, he doesn't relish the idea of looking down the barrel of a loaded shotgun, and he legs it, I cannot shoot at him. However, my four legged buddy Jake is quite capable of taking care of our home.

Canada is indeed vastly different; and hunting and fishing are popular pastimes and we have lots of wide open spaces to hunt in. But there is a difference between us and our neighbours to the south. We don't tend to shoot other people with our guns. The annual number of murders in Canada is around 500 ... much less than the city of Detroit for example. With strict laws governing the sale and safe storage of firearms. and rules for safe hunting, gun ownership doesn't cause many problems for us.

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Oh, and by the way, if I were attacked by an armed intruder in my own home, and if I had a loaded gun, I would not hesitate to shoot. However, I do not like the idea of people other than the coppers walking the streets of my city carrying concealed hand guns.

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There are no grizzly bears in the UK.

ANSWER = NO

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There's a difference between a regular gun and an air gun - or is there? An air gun can kill, just like any other gun.

When my son was a teenager we bought him an air gun because he had discovered, on fair ground shooting stalls (from which he was, subsequently, banned for being too good and winning too often), that he was a natural marksman. There is a gun club a couple of miles from where we live and we allowed him to join. He used to go on a Sunday morning and, for the rest of the week, that air gun was locked away. He knew how to behave responsibly with the gun and he knew it could be lethal - he knew it because his dad and I hammered the message home to him (OK, nagged) constantly.

This tragedy in Brum was avoidable. I know the father was distracted by his phone ringing but you don't leave any gun unattended, especially when there are children about. Any parent always has to be alert to any potential danger and a parent with a gun should be 100 times more cautious.

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Exactly .... there are no "accidents" with guns ... just stupidity and carelessness ... many schools in rural areas offer courses in gun safety and responsible gun ownership ... these kids grow up around guns ... most of them will become gun owners ... teaching them gun safety makes sense.

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In the UK....no guns...period.....I'm happy with that.

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I'm with Mancie on this one.

No-one needs to own a gun and I don't think owning a gun should be legal.

What kind of hobby is shooting? :confused:

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Ask the Royal Family. :rolleyes:

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the kind that wins ya medals in the olympics.;)

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An olympic medal versus people staying alive....it's keeping people alive for me.

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you really think that would make a differance lilly?:confused:

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The nut that shot the kids in Dumblane, although he had aa firearms license was not a member of any gun club, none of them would accept him as a member. When his permit came up for renewal the police were informed of this, and he couldn't show membership of a club, which is the only reason for his possession, yet his cerificate was renewedby the police.

As for Michal Ryan in Hungerford, he was only a probationary member of his local club, and the law at that time, prevented probationary members being granted a certificate, yet the police granted him one, even though he had once been caught in possesion of an illegal firearm.

I was a member of several rifle and pistol clubs for over 40 years, and being the secretary of two of them, you had to be conversant with the fire arms act.
One section, which covered any one who had commited a crime, with a fire arm, and was convicted, could never hold a legal firearm again for LIFE, the 7 year rule doesn't apply to the firearms act.

Why doesn't that apply to those who commit crimes with CARS, theres nothing like the threat of a life ban to keep you on your toes.

More people are killed by cars every day than by fireaarms, yet mention the word gun and every one gets paranoid, you've been brain washed by the media.

Retlaw

Re: The Right To Bear Arms
 

And lots of other land owners who keep our country and the land they look after and preserve for future generations.
Do you contribute?
I'm not trying to cause an arguement in this, but why ask the Royal Family?
They pay more tax than you ever will and still look after the land they own.

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I just don't think anyone needs to own a gun, that's all.

My opinion was re-inforced ( I wasn't brainwashed ;) ) when I read a book called Never Forget, written by Mick North, father of Sophie North who was one of the children murdered in Dunblane.

The gun ownership issue is debated at some length and I agree with the author in that guns are designed to kill and people should not be allowed to own them as they cannot be sufficiently controlled.

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A very demanding and exacting one if you take it seriously, self control is necessary to achieve perfection, and reach a high standard of marksmanship, if they ever showed the shoot off, for the Queens Prize at Bisley on television, you would see what the sport was all about, it is not a hobby, just like other games and sports are not a hobby.

Retlaw.

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No one needs to own a gun but many of us do and enjoy shooting at nothing but paper targets. What is wrong with that? If I wanted to kill you I could do it a 1001 ways without needing a gun. Do you want to ban everything that could be lethal?

The father is question is an idiot. As stated you do not leave a loaded gun unattended. Looking at the pictures I saw his garden was not suitable for shooting an air rifle in anyway.

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That is only partly true. Legitimate quarry in the UK is plentiful, even if it is a little smaller than in the US.

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Agreed, the father in that story is an idiot.

True, you could kill me any way you wanted to.....blimey, I shall watch out for you! :eek::D

But guns were designed specifically to kill and in a maniac's hands can have devastating consequences....I don't think we should be turning a blind eye to this so that someone can continue to shoot origami.

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i bumped into some kids a couple of months ago lilly 15/16 years old in daylight another lad was asking em - to lend him a shooter, i told a couple of members at the time n following that reported it. now noway was that gun legal. its nuts to think a ban would make a differance.

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And javelins are just spears so shall we ban them?

What about knives? Were they a weapon or a tool first?

A rounders bat looks like a club so we best ban them as well.

Best ban rat poison while we are at it just in case you decide to cash in on your hubbys life insurance as well.

Like with anything it just comes down to how air guns are used. Would the story have been so big if the boy was injured by a smashed bottle of beer his dad had left outside?

Come to think of it glass is dangerous so we best ban it, might be a bit cold in our houses though.

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"The gun issued was debate at some length". By whom were the N.R.A., or the B.S.S.C., allowed to take part in the debate.
Women can get very emotional if the right words are used, they even weep and get emotional over films and novels, the films are created just to do that, and the right music is supplied as well, They are only actors on celluliod its not REAL, just like those rubbishy soaps on television, its not REAL.

You cannot uninvent the gun, just as you can't uninvent the printed word, its the way people use them that matters.

Guns don't kill people - People kill people and with any thing they can get their hands on.

Retlaw.

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Excuse me but I offered no criticism in my statement, merely a reply to the question. It's a well-documented fact that shooting is just one of their hobbies.

Incidentally, of course they pay more tax than I ever will. The difference is that I worked to earn my (taxed) small pension, which is substantially less than any Royal's inherited income, and I look after the "land" I own (my 3-bed semi) with as much conscientiousness (finances permitting) as HMQ maintains her many estates.

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If anyone thinks weapons should be legalised then what about this bloke?

Man had a rocket launcher and four air rifles - WalesOnline

he's not gonna be shooting rabbits is he?

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doubt very much if anyone thinks guns should be legalised, i certainly don't, but neither do i think they should be banned. P.S. i have never owned a gun. apart from a diana air gun.

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I think the law should be changed back to allow the ownership of hand guns.

Since the ban gun crime as rocketed so it was obviously a pointless and very expensive exercise.

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Yes, I do tend to get a tad weepy whenever schoolchildren are massacred.

Unfortunately they weren't little actors. They were REAL children in a REAL town in a REAL school shot by a REAL maniac...and there was no music to sway my unstable feminine emotions as it was a factual book I was reading. :p

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I see what you're saying Cashy.

I just think we should make gun ownership as difficult as possible.

I think it's all too easy at the moment.

In a bit it'll be harder to get hold of a packet of fags. :rolleyes:

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Who is this funny guy....:rolleyes:

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unless things have changed lilly it aint that easy to get a gun legally, they refused cashy back in 68/69. so i never bothered.;)

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Anyone caught with a gun in thier possesion should get at least 30 years AND SHOULD SERVE THE SENTANCE no time off for good behaviour.I think thats where our system sucks :mad:

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But since then there has not been an incident were 16 children were massacred..has been said that if someone wants a gun they can get one.. but at least they are commiting an illegal act.

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And none of it would have happened, had the police done their job properly, when Hamilton's cerificate came up for renewal, the officer responcible took early retirement on ill health grounds shortly after.

Retlaw.

Re: The Right To Bear Arms
 

From your link

The air rifles in question were over the 12 ft/lb power limit so require to be on a certificate.

Without a firearms certificate air rifles have to be under 12 ft/lbs and pistols under 6 ft/lbs.

To try and give you an idea about how powerful that is, if you were using a 12 ft/lbs air rifle for shooting rabbits the maximum recommended range for a kill is about 30m. 30m is not very far at all, take 30 paces and look how short a distance you have travelled.

Most new air rifles are only about 10 or 11 ft/lbs and pistols about 3. This is down to a couple of factors, one being the 5 years jail time you can get for owning an over powered one since the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 was introduced last year.

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so it was you in that tunnel in france :eek:

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Not funny.

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So if any other officer had taken responsabilty it would not have happened?.. why take the risk? i'ts sickening.

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So was it legal to shoot them with a legal gun :confused:

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i beg to differ but at least you had the balls to sign you comment:)

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Of course not.. but it may not have happened if the scumbag had not had easy access to guns.. guns he owned legally.. he may have flipped.. to get an illegal gun takes time.. I don't think it's as easy as some people are making out.

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He may have flipped and decided to drive has car though the shopping centre seeing how many people he could run over or maybe got his chainsaw out or a kitchen knife or a length or 3x2.

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Two rusty poncakes seems to be the morm these days?

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The difference is that although all those things can kill they also serve other purposes. It's not practical to ban all things with the potential to kill.

Guns serve no other purpose but to kill..

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Yep..or he might have decided to get a machine gun from his bedroom.. to easy.

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sorry disagree completely with that, guns are Very easy to obtain illegally. as easy virtually as getting some "puff" to put in context.

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No..have to say that is not a fact, I'm not talking from experience but to obtian a loaded hand gun or rifle is not as easy as "puff" which you can buy in most pubs.. buying a handgun has certain concequences for the seller as well as the buyer..the weapon may have been used in other crimes.. no way you can get access to a gun as Tommy Cooper would say "just like that"

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believe it, if it makes ya happy.

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I know it!

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Target shooting is not killing the paper, nor is field target shooting when you shoot at knock down targets.

How many people were killed by the target shooters in the Olympics?

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gee wish i was that good.:rolleyes:

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No and thats all im saying

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Thats it, just a no. Why do you not want to explain a bit more?

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I do suspect people would have a different attitude if the nightmare of Dunblane happend here.

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there is no need for anybody to own a gun in this country, but the banning of hand guns was done for the wrong reasons. Nutters who want guns will always be able to obtain them. You can just imagine the criminal eliment down in the smoke when hand guns were banned. Ha that Tony Blair as just banned hand guns lads, thats torn it, the bank job we had planed for Thursday is of, can't blag the joint without shooters, when Regan and his mob have still got theirs. The only thing it did was to disband our olympic shooting teams, who had to go over to France if they wanted to carry on their sport

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i do think all police officers shoud be trained in fire arms and also carry a fire arm, i know not all criminals carry fire arms but i pretty sure you wouldnt get people attacking emergency services if they thought the police wouldnt be far behind and were armed,aslo a bullet in the leg would stop a fleeing suspect liek a burgular etc

the argument that if the police have guns then the criminals will have guns is rubbish because as it stands the criminals do have guns but all the police have is a batton

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not these arms then?

http://www.taylorstudio-taxidermy-ar...iles/bear1.jpg

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Lol, you're a Family Guy fan too then :D

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Hello to everyone, this is my first post, and i hope not my last. I've spent all of my life in the countryside except for university. Guns are a part of life, safety is no accident and to get a licence is difficult (Shotgun). The problem is people see Air rifles as less dangerous and there certainly not. Moderation is needed, the number of people i catch out in the field with airrifles shooting ducks and geese is beyond believe, at least 5 a week. We do need to ban guns, but not for everyone. A gun is a tool, not a toy. I think people should need to provide good reason to own even an air rifle.

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shaker - for sure :D

yeah i think we've made that law clear - yeah i mean come on what else could it mean/

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Hope you are super fast. The picture in my mind is of you running hell for leather to get everything back in working order before the perp gets the upper hand. Good luck with that!

Yep, the father in question was more than careless. One should keep firearms out of the reach of children until they are age appropriate and can be taught how to use and respect them in a proper manner.

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agree with barb on this one.:)