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blazey 22-12-2008 21:21

Politics.
 
I'm surprised that people see crossing over the party line as an extreme move considering that one side suggests change and the other suggests conserving what we already have, respectively in their most basic forms.

There are many famous quotes from highly intelligent individuals highlighting this basic nature of the left and right wings for us. Is it so difficult to believe that a person can easily change parties with such ease? Surely once radicals have achieved what they were aiming for then they can only become conservative, unless what they initially thought was a good idea has led to something they didn't quite predict? Same goes for a 'conservative'... how can they say they are conservative if they are trying to change things?

I'm not a political mastermind so I'm only wondering. It just seems slightly odd to me.

Eric 22-12-2008 21:48

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by blazey (Post 662339)
I'm surprised that people see crossing over the party line as an extreme move considering that one side suggests change and the other suggests conserving what we already have, respectively in their most basic forms.

There are many famous quotes from highly intelligent individuals highlighting this basic nature of the left and right wings for us. Is it so difficult to believe that a person can easily change parties with such ease? Surely once radicals have achieved what they were aiming for then they can only become conservative, unless what they initially thought was a good idea has led to something they didn't quite predict? Same goes for a 'conservative'... how can they say they are conservative if they are trying to change things?

I'm not a political mastermind so I'm only wondering. It just seems slightly odd to me.

Changing parties: mmm ... Churchill was good at that .... I don't think that "conservative" means maintaining the status quo ... I think it has more to do with how one views things like the economy, social services, commitment to the military etc. And "radical" ... seems to me that some parties that have termed themselves radical are, in fact, conservative ... I think that this confusion was common in the Third French Republic. (Maybe all kinds of confusion were common in the Third French Republic, particularly between the ears of Maurice Gamelin). "Revolutionary" would, I think, be a better term than "radical". But even revolutionary parties become conservative ... the Soviet Union comes immediately to mind.

I do believe though, that people who cross party lines, or cross the floor of the House (we have a House of Commons too:tongueout) are often acting on principle, rather than swallowing their principles in order to toe a party line that they no longer agree with. And I do think that addiction to ideology sometimes takes a back seat problems of running a country in a complex world.

Oh, and have yourself a Merry Christmas, eh:D and a happy and prosperous New Year ... Joyeux Noel et Bon Annee from the Great White North.

Royboy39 22-12-2008 22:06

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 662349)
Changing parties: mmm ... Churchill was good at that .... I don't think that "conservative" means maintaining the status quo ... I think it has more to do with how one views things like the economy, social services, commitment to the military etc. And "radical" ... seems to me that some parties that have termed themselves radical are, in fact, conservative ... I think that this confusion was common in the Third French Republic. (Maybe all kinds of confusion were common in the Third French Republic, particularly between the ears of Maurice Gamelin). "Revolutionary" would, I think, be a better term than "radical". But even revolutionary parties become conservative ... the Soviet Union comes immediately to mind.

I do believe though, that people who cross party lines, or cross the floor of the House (we have a House of Commons too:tongueout) are often acting on principle, rather than swallowing their principles in order to toe a party line that they no longer agree with. And I do think that addiction to ideology sometimes takes a back seat problems of running a country in a complex world.

Oh, and have yourself a Merry Christmas, eh:D and a happy and prosperous New Year ... Joyeux Noel et Bon Annee from the Great White North.

Eric thanks for the greeting and your thoughts on politics.
Politics at the age of 19 depends on which student bar you are invited to and who you fancy and what sort of a night you have had.
The world is in a mess and that is down to the dumbo's who head the governments.
I dont fully understand how politics work and I have been here a long time.
Let the young lass have her head and reflect in the coming years where she went wrong. :)

andrewb 22-12-2008 22:28

Re: Politics.
 
I think half the problem here is that Conservative and conservative are not necessarily the same thing.

lancsdave 22-12-2008 22:32

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 662359)
I think half the problem here is that Conservative and conservative are not necessarily the same thing.


Ii a survey of 100 mothers 99% agreed that Labour and labour are the same... painful :D

Gordie 22-12-2008 22:42

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 662349)
Changing parties: mmm ... Churchill was good at that .... I don't think that "conservative" means maintaining the status quo ... I think it has more to do with how one views things like the economy, social services, commitment to the military etc. And "radical" ... seems to me that some parties that have termed themselves radical are, in fact, conservative ... I think that this confusion was common in the Third French Republic. (Maybe all kinds of confusion were common in the Third French Republic, particularly between the ears of Maurice Gamelin). "Revolutionary" would, I think, be a better term than "radical". But even revolutionary parties become conservative ... the Soviet Union comes immediately to mind.

I do believe though, that people who cross party lines, or cross the floor of the House (we have a House of Commons too:tongueout) are often acting on principle, rather than swallowing their principles in order to toe a party line that they no longer agree with. And I do think that addiction to ideology sometimes takes a back seat problems of running a country in a complex world.

Oh, and have yourself a Merry Christmas, eh:D and a happy and prosperous New Year ... Joyeux Noel et Bon Annee from the Great White North.

Eric if you ever run for the leadership of what ever party sails your boat I
will vote for you.I reckon you could be up there with some of our past greats if given the chance. Enoch Powell and Churchill come stright to mind

steeljack 23-12-2008 01:42

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordie (Post 662367)
Eric if you ever run for the leadership of what ever party sails your boat I
will vote for you.I reckon you could be up there with some of our past greats if given the chance. Enoch Powell and Churchill come stright to mind

Churchill was nothing more than an opportunist who changed allegiances with the wind .
Funny how few of the biographies of the "great man" mention his role as Colonial Secretary and his allowing Bomber Harris and the RAF to use poison gas against the Iraqi Kurds during the 20s (Seem to remember another chap got hung a couple of years ago for doing the same).
If anyone is to blame for the debacle in modern day Iraq it can be layed fairly and squarely at Churchills feet , it was his decision to create an artifical country out of three distinct and separate Turkish villyats, divided by race and religon. It was his decision to place one of the foriegn Hassemite princes on the Iraqi throne ,which led to the creation of Baath party and ultimatly Saddam Hussien .

jaysay 23-12-2008 09:43

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordie (Post 662367)
Eric if you ever run for the leadership of what ever party sails your boat I
will vote for you.I reckon you could be up there with some of our past greats if given the chance. Enoch Powell and Churchill come stright to mind

Coming from you Gordie, would have expected Enoch Powell to be one of your heros:rolleyes:

Gayle 23-12-2008 09:56

Re: Politics.
 
Switching parties as a voter is quite common - the 'floating' vote is what most people count on to get elected. Traditionally women are 'floating' voters who vote for whoever they think is the right person at the right time regardless of party.

So, although I don't know what went on at the meet on Friday night, and reading between the lines a little, I'm guessing that Blazey was lambasted by some members from switching from Conservative to Labour.

If that's the case then i think that elected members in opposition have to remember that if they want to win then they need to win over anyone who is likely to switch allegiance. Blazey seems to me the ideal 'voter'.

However, if we're talking about elected members who switch party half way through their term then I'm sorry but i don't like that. If someone wishes to leave a party on principle then they shouldn't walk across the house. Many people vote based on the party itself and not the individual so you are doing the people who voted for you a diservice by switching. By all means switch party but resign from your elected post and have a bye-election first.

jaysay 23-12-2008 10:23

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle (Post 662403)
Switching parties as a voter is quite common - the 'floating' vote is what most people count on to get elected. Traditionally women are 'floating' voters who vote for whoever they think is the right person at the right time regardless of party.

So, although I don't know what went on at the meet on Friday night, and reading between the lines a little, I'm guessing that Blazey was lambasted by some members from switching from Conservative to Labour.

If that's the case then i think that elected members in opposition have to remember that if they want to win then they need to win over anyone who is likely to switch allegiance. Blazey seems to me the ideal 'voter'.

However, if we're talking about elected members who switch party half way through their term then I'm sorry but i don't like that. If someone wishes to leave a party on principle then they shouldn't walk across the house. Many people vote based on the party itself and not the individual so you are doing the people who voted for you a diservice by switching. By all means switch party but resign from your elected post and have a bye-election first.

That is what should happen in a perfect world Gayle, but unfortunately politics and politicians are by no means perfect and never will be:D

blazey 23-12-2008 11:44

Re: Politics.
 
If I was a politician sat in the House of Commons and I was already on the bring of defecting and my party said something to finally tip me over the edge, I think I would walk out, not attempt to walk across to the other party. What if nobody wants me :p

As for my politics, I've been Labour since October and nobody has really made a massive deal on it on here but since I started posting more regularly again it seems to be the topic of the conversation the moment a thread goes a bit quiet!

I was a Conservative voter all last year at University and anyone who knows Lancaster's college system will know I am in the socialist college and took a full year of abuse for being 'the tory'. In fact I still take that in the Labour Club :p there is also 'the lib dem' (though I'd like to add he is slightly worse because he left lib dems a few days before the lib dem club fell apart). I was independent of all political groups at university last year and drank in the bars with both sides of the line. It didn't particularly bother me.

Even now my views haven't particularly changed. None of the parties match my views perfectly so it doesn't particularly matter which I'm in really but if I am going to work for the uni and promote opportunities for all then my politics should ideally represent that as best as possible.

The Labour Club at uni is old Labour so I'm currently alienated by them along with two other members but I still drink in my bar as usual. It has always had written above the bar on the chalkboards that tories aren't welcome to sit at the bar and I always have done in the same seat!

I will do exactly as someone said though when it comes to the general election and vote for who is the best, maybe not just at that particular time, but most consistently. Sadly the Labour Club at University makes me reluctant to show any loyalty to the party but I think too much loyalty in politics is quite damaging anyway.

Eric 23-12-2008 14:51

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordie (Post 662367)
Eric if you ever run for the leadership of what ever party sails your boat I
will vote for you.I reckon you could be up there with some of our past greats if given the chance. Enoch Powell and Churchill come stright to mind

Nah, Harlold Wilson ... or my political hero Tommy Douglas:theband:

Taggy 23-12-2008 16:05

Re: Politics.
 
We usually vote to bring into power someone whose ideas we believe in, or to keep out someone whose ideas we dont. But lets face it whichever way we vote, if we are totally honest, in the long run dont we always end up dissapointed. I think most people enter politics with honourable ideas and motives. However once entrenched into the "system" they either become downtrodden and disheartend by red tape, or corrupted by power. Some of them of course are just completely incompetant. Now when you get the combination of the Corrupt leading the incompetant or visa versa we end up with a situation where no one can see the wood for the trees. The Greed of certain people is then allowed to flourish. We've seen this also in our once respected financial institutions. It used to be said that Estate Agents were our most hated profession, Perhaps they now come third behind Politicians and Bankers!

Best Regards - Taggy

Eric 23-12-2008 16:12

Re: Politics.
 
Going out on a limb here, I think that the only person ever to enter parliament with honest intentions was Guy Fawkes:theband:

Taggy 23-12-2008 16:21

Re: Politics.
 
...and then only because he'd been upset by the Hokey Cokey!! Lol!

Best Regards - Taggy

jaysay 23-12-2008 16:47

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 662488)
Going out on a limb here, I think that the only person ever to enter parliament with honest intentions was Guy Fawkes:theband:

And even he failed:rolleyes:

Eric 23-12-2008 18:08

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 662496)
And even he failed:rolleyes:

Only because technology had not caught up with his ideas .... much more difficult getting barrels of gunpowder into the basement, than smuggling in a few pounds of plastic ...... ;)

jaysay 24-12-2008 10:14

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 662521)
Only because technology had not caught up with his ideas .... much more difficult getting barrels of gunpowder into the basement, than smuggling in a few pounds of plastic ...... ;)

Ya Eric but they didn't have anti-terror police lurking all around to arrest Government decenters either:D

Gordie 26-12-2008 16:36

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by steeljack (Post 662378)
Churchill was nothing more than an opportunist who changed allegiances with the wind .
Funny how few of the biographies of the "great man" mention his role as Colonial Secretary and his allowing Bomber Harris and the RAF to use poison gas against the Iraqi Kurds during the 20s (Seem to remember another chap got hung a couple of years ago for doing the same).
If anyone is to blame for the debacle in modern day Iraq it can be layed fairly and squarely at Churchills feet , it was his decision to create an artifical country out of three distinct and separate Turkish villyats, divided by race and religon. It was his decision to place one of the foriegn Hassemite princes on the Iraqi throne ,which led to the creation of Baath party and ultimatly Saddam Hussien .

In your words nothing more than an opportunist.Funny how people like you
can find plenty of faults years after events.A man who never makes a mistake never does anything.A man who makes many mistakes does many things.If Winston would have never been born it would possibly be likely
that you and I would never have had the oppurtunity to even type these quotes.

Gordie 26-12-2008 16:45

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 662399)
Coming from you Gordie, would have expected Enoch Powell to be one of your heros:rolleyes:

In a poll taken shortly after the speech of Birmingham 74% of the British electorate supported Enoch so I guess he would be the hero to many people ;)

Taggy 26-12-2008 16:45

Re: Politics.
 
Hindsight is always one of the most treasured possesions of a Tap Room Genius!


Best Regards - Taggy

Eric 26-12-2008 17:20

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 662729)
Ya Eric but they didn't have anti-terror police lurking all around to arrest Government decenters either:D

Ok, but modern dissenters don't have to fear hanging, drawing, and quartering ... that's a deterrent that I'm surprised some of you guys haven't suggested to deal with society's scum ... fun stuff, that HDQ ... and don't forget boiling in oil and burning at the stake:alright::alright::alright:

yerself 26-12-2008 19:09

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle
If that's the case then i think that elected members in opposition have to remember that if they want to win then they need to win over anyone who is likely to switch allegiance.

In Labour's case a whole party switched allegiance to gain power. They adopted Conservative policies but still called themselves the Labour Party.:rolleyes:

cmonstanley 26-12-2008 21:03

Re: Politics.
 
ha ha ha ill be doin that tomorrow because its christmas;);):Dareested for doin the hokykoky ha ha

derekgas 26-12-2008 21:27

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Taggy (Post 662484)
We usually vote to bring into power someone whose ideas we believe in, or to keep out someone whose ideas we dont. But lets face it whichever way we vote, if we are totally honest, in the long run dont we always end up dissapointed. I think most people enter politics with honourable ideas and motives. However once entrenched into the "system" they either become downtrodden and disheartend by red tape, or corrupted by power. Some of them of course are just completely incompetant. Now when you get the combination of the Corrupt leading the incompetant or visa versa we end up with a situation where no one can see the wood for the trees. The Greed of certain people is then allowed to flourish. We've seen this also in our once respected financial institutions. It used to be said that Estate Agents were our most hated profession, Perhaps they now come third behind Politicians and Bankers!

Best Regards - Taggy

Agreed! :)

derekgas 26-12-2008 21:30

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 663136)
Ok, but modern dissenters don't have to fear hanging, drawing, and quartering ... that's a deterrent that I'm surprised some of you guys haven't suggested to deal with society's scum ... fun stuff, that HDQ ... and don't forget boiling in oil and burning at the stake:alright::alright::alright:

I have suggested most of these, and more, I think cashy probably has too! Will never get anwhere near effective deterrent in this country, unless we hang, draw and quarter the do gooders and human rights brigade first! :hidewall:

jaysay 27-12-2008 09:08

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordie (Post 663133)
In a poll taken shortly after the speech of Birmingham 74% of the British electorate supported Enoch so I guess he would be the hero to many people ;)

Were you even born then, don't think you were one of the 74%;)

Taggy 27-12-2008 10:52

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 663263)
Were you even born then, don't think you were one of the 74%;)


Would be very interesting to see what the percentage would be today!


Best Regards - Taggy

SPUGGIE J 27-12-2008 18:33

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by derekgas (Post 663230)
I have suggested most of these, and more, I think cashy probably has too! Will never get anwhere near effective deterrent in this country, unless we hang, draw and quarter the do gooders and human rights brigade first! :hidewall:

I will vote for that one DG. :D Do we really need told how we should raise our families by a bunch of arrogant rusty sherrif badges? It dosnt matter who you vote for most are as bad as each other but providing you use that right then you can have a clear concience.

The biggest problem in politics comes from those that think they know better but are not willing to put up and try and change what irks them. In this day and age it is the faceless minority that have the ear of polititions that are making are lives so unsure and I dont just mean bankers and financiers. Some day in the future we will realise that we have handed our lives to the faceless and the equivilent of Judge Dredd will run our lives. We will never have the utopia we want but while we have politics and a say we still have some control.

jaysay 28-12-2008 09:43

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Taggy (Post 663284)
Would be very interesting to see what the percentage would be today!


Best Regards - Taggy

That would be hard to quantify today Taggy, the context that Powell used at the time of the speech would have a far different meaning today and the arguments would take an whole new meaning in today's climate

Taggy 28-12-2008 10:13

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 663508)
That would be hard to quantify today Taggy, the context that Powell used at the time of the speech would have a far different meaning today and the arguments would take an whole new meaning in today's climate

.....which perhaps gives even more credence to the message he was trying to get across!!!

Best Regards - Taggy

Gordie 28-12-2008 13:11

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Taggy (Post 663284)
Would be very interesting to see what the percentage would be today!


Best Regards - Taggy

If the poll was taken for the indigenous population only I would guess it would be very similar or even a higher percentage but I agree it would be very interesting

Gordie 28-12-2008 13:27

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 663263)
Were you even born then, don't think you were one of the 74%;)

What has being one of the 74% or even being born then got to do with the quote you are replying to:confused:

I think you would even disagree with yourself for the sake of it.
You remind me of a relative of mine. If he ever would have entered a monastery or a abbey for over an hour you can bet the nuns and the monks would be in total disagreement with each other;)

garinda 28-12-2008 19:32

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordie (Post 663565)
If the poll was taken for the indigenous population only....

So you'd only be interested in the poll results of the Celts, and disregard the views of the Angles and the Saxons?:rolleyes:

blazey 28-12-2008 20:34

Re: Politics.
 
Life would be pretty boring if we all agreed, wouldn't it :p

Neil 28-12-2008 20:38

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 663136)
... and don't forget boiling in oil and burning at the stake

We need to think of carbon neutral methods of killing people these days.

SPUGGIE J 28-12-2008 21:18

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 663690)
We need to think of carbon neutral methods of killing people these days.

That and how to recycle the parts. I am sure if we got rid of all the dissidents there would be plenty of parts for transplant. :p

SPUGGIE J 28-12-2008 21:22

Re: Politics.
 
Well I was a bit confused over this politics lark and was made worse by this from Wiki;

Politics is the process by which groups of people make decisions. The term is generally applied to behavior within civil governments, but politics has been observed in all human group interactions, including corporate, academic, and religious institutions. It consists of "social relations involving authority or power"[1] and refers to the regulation of a political unit,[2] and to the methods and tactics used to formulate and apply policy.[3]

jaysay 29-12-2008 09:22

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordie (Post 663568)
What has being one of the 74% or even being born then got to do with the quote you are replying to:confused:

I think you would even disagree with yourself for the sake of it.
You remind me of a relative of mine. If he ever would have entered a monastery or a abbey for over an hour you can bet the nuns and the monks would be in total disagreement with each other;)

Don't flatter yourself Gordie I could be nothing like anybody related to you, I don't fall out with people, only bigots like you:thefinger

Gordie 29-12-2008 11:57

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 663826)
Don't flatter yourself Gordie I could be nothing like anybody related to you, I don't fall out with people, only bigots like you:thefinger

There is also a name for your type.Sympathiser.
In all your quotes that I have read where there is an issue conflicting with the interests of the British Goverment you defend.
Hopefully theres not to many of your type in the forces :behead:

SPUGGIE J 29-12-2008 12:35

Re: Politics.
 
The problems that Ireland both north and south have had are to some extent self perpetuating. The thing is staying in Scotland I see a form of it as well and I find it disgusting. Politics and religion should never mix as there has been more conflict because of this than any other reason. People I know who serve in the forces have hope for the future and in their opinion its re-education that is needed. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and belief but to be made to suffer for that is wrong. Can you put forward a conflict whether military are civillian that dosnt have religion egging it on in some way?

garinda 29-12-2008 15:27

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J (Post 663892)
The problems that Ireland both north and south have had are to some extent self perpetuating. The thing is staying in Scotland I see a form of it as well and I find it disgusting. Politics and religion should never mix as there has been more conflict because of this than any other reason. People I know who serve in the forces have hope for the future and in their opinion its re-education that is needed. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and belief but to be made to suffer for that is wrong. Can you put forward a conflict whether military are civillian that dosnt have religion egging it on in some way?

I agree.

I lived in Scotland for three years, and was shocked at how much religion is part of politics up there, all fuelled by the press.

I never expeienced any overt racism, in the cosmopolitan West End of Glasgow, and quickly silenced any attempt to find out which 'side' I was from, and my religious background, by saying I didn't support either of the Old Firm clubs, but Queen of the South.:D

Mind you, it was a bit like that in Liverpool, when I was at college there.

Perhaps you get people obsessed with religious divides anywhere there's a ferry terminal.:rolleyes:

jaysay 29-12-2008 16:24

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordie (Post 663883)
There is also a name for your type.Sympathiser.
In all your quotes that I have read where there is an issue conflicting with the interests of the British Goverment you defend.
Hopefully theres not to many of your type in the forces :behead:

And what forces are you a member of the IRA, and me defend the British Government, your having a laugh, now your get bloody stupid. Our forces are not fighting Muslims they are fighting religious fanatics, which is a very big difference, but what you want everybody to do is paint every one with the same brush, if its Muslim its a terrorist, its like saying everybody living in Ireland are dickheads like you:tongueout

Gordie 29-12-2008 22:15

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 663987)
And what forces are you a member of the IRA, and me defend the British Government, your having a laugh, now your get bloody stupid. Our forces are not fighting Muslims they are fighting religious fanatics, which is a very big difference, but what you want everybody to do is paint every one with the same brush, if its Muslim its a terrorist, its like saying everybody living in Ireland are dickheads like you:tongueout

Your off your rocker you horrible little man.I am not saying nothing like what you are suggesting.You could not be further from the truth with some of your assumptions.If our forces are not fighting Muslim fanatics and there supposedly none aggresive supporters who are they fighting then the Russians.Its stupid folk like you who are to blame for the state
in which Britain is today. :tongueout
You horrible horrible little man you :alright:Accrington Burnley Blackburn Bradford
have some of the lowest wages and house prices in the all of the UK and
your calling me a dickhead your having a laugh you sympathiser :dogrun:

garinda 29-12-2008 22:58

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordie (Post 664145)
You horrible horrible little man you :alright:Accrington Burnley Blackburn Bradford
have some of the lowest wages and house prices in the all of the UK and
your calling me a dickhead your having a laugh you sympathiser :dogrun:

I don't think that analogy holds much water.

Belgravia, Mayfair, and Kensington, is full of people from many Asian countries, yet has some of the most expensive real estate on the planet.

Cornwall has a very small immigrant population, and is suprisingly one of the poorest counties in England, with one of the lowest Gross Disposal Household Income per capita in the country, and that is reflected in the relatively low value of property there.

For the reason this area has a relatively low property value, if £100,000 for a typical terraced house can be considered low value, you'd have to look back to why so many houses were built for the immigrants who flooded in to the area seeking a better life for themselves and their families...in the nineteenth century.;)

jaysay 30-12-2008 03:58

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 664166)
I don't think that analogy holds much water.

Belgravia, Mayfair, and Kensington, is full of people from many Asian countries, yet has some of the most expensive real estate on the planet.

Cornwall has a very small immigrant population, and is suprisingly one of the poorest counties in England, with one of the lowest Gross Disposal Household Income per capita in the country, and that is reflected in the relatively low value of property there.

For the reason this area has a relatively low property value, if £100,000 for a typical terraced house can be considered low value, you'd have to look back to why so many houses were built for the immigrants who flooded in to the area seeking a better life for themselves and their families...in the nineteenth century.;)

And those immigrants came from mainly Ireland, but we've got our revenge we've sent um Gordie:D

steeljack 30-12-2008 04:21

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 664166)
Cornwall has a very small immigrant population, and is suprisingly one of the poorest counties in England, with one of the lowest Gross Disposal Household Income per capita in the country, and that is reflected in the relatively low value of property there.

.;)

I think that ( low property values) will be disputed by the local Cornishmen , I have friends who live there and there is a lot of resentment that when any property becomes available it is immediatly snapped up by out-siders willing to pay a premium price for a second 'holiday' home , leaving a shortage for the younger local population. Evidently these holiday homes also enjoy a substantial break on the Council tax since the house is un-occupied for the major part of the year ....don't know if this is a fact , but its what they tell me .

garinda 30-12-2008 09:10

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by steeljack (Post 664202)
I think that ( low property values) will be disputed by the local Cornishmen , I have friends who live there and there is a lot of resentment that when any property becomes available it is immediatly snapped up by out-siders willing to pay a premium price for a second 'holiday' home , leaving a shortage for the younger local population. Evidently these holiday homes also enjoy a substantial break on the Council tax since the house is un-occupied for the major part of the year ....don't know if this is a fact , but its what they tell me .

I did say relative. I should have said relative to other south coast counties, all of which are relatively more expensive.

Cornwall is one of only four areas in the country that qualifies for poverty related grants from the EU. Apart from tourism, that is of course is seasonal, there are very few other industries there, now the mines are closed.

garinda 30-12-2008 09:17

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by steeljack (Post 664202)
Evidently these holiday homes also enjoy a substantial break on the Council tax since the house is un-occupied for the major part of the year ....don't know if this is a fact , but its what they tell me .

There used to be a 50% discount on second (furnished) holiday homes. The government reduced this discount, so you pay 90% of the full Council Tax now.

garinda 30-12-2008 09:25

Re: Politics.
 
An interesting article from The Independent, about the hidden poverty in Cornwall.



Cornwall: A land of haves, and have nots - This Britain, UK - The Independent

http://www.tearfund.org/News/A+hidden+poverty.htm

jaysay 30-12-2008 09:28

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 664217)
There used to be a 50% discount on second (furnished) holiday homes. The government reduced this discount, so you pay 90% of the full Council Tax now.

Wonder if Gordon pays 90% on Chequers:D:rolleyes:

cashman 30-12-2008 09:38

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 664219)
Wonder if Gordon pays 90% on Chequers:D:rolleyes:

if thats the case Maggie only paid 50% in her day, Cheapskate.:D

jaysay 30-12-2008 10:59

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 664221)
if thats the case Maggie only paid 50% in her day, Cheapskate.:D

Ya but Gordons changed the rules cashy:rolleyes:

cashman 30-12-2008 11:21

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 664247)
Ya but Gordons changed the rules cashy:rolleyes:

good change in my book, pity its not 100%.;)

andrewb 30-12-2008 12:32

Re: Politics.
 
Charge them for services they don't use, sounds about right. Does this logic include somebody who rents their house out but currently have no occupant, although are keeping the house in top condition?

cashman 30-12-2008 13:42

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 664259)
Charge them for services they don't use, sounds about right. Does this logic include somebody who rents their house out but currently have no occupant, although are keeping the house in top condition?

of coarse they use em, i have to pay fer mine abroad n i do not object, if people are lucky enough to have the money to buy em, then they should pay, its that simple to me.

cashman 30-12-2008 14:17

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 664259)
Charge them for services they don't use, sounds about right. Does this logic include somebody who rents their house out but currently have no occupant, although are keeping the house in top condition?

thats one of the main things i despise about conservative mentality, (i got money, i want to keep it n pay sod all):rolleyes:

garinda 30-12-2008 15:01

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 664247)
Ya but Gordons changed the rules cashy:rolleyes:

Before Thatcher introduced the Poll Tax, the precursor to the Council Tax, local authorities could each decide what discount second/third home owners had to pay. The average paid, of the whole rateable value, was about 30-50%.

garinda 30-12-2008 15:04

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 664259)
Charge them for services they don't use, sounds about right. Does this logic include somebody who rents their house out but currently have no occupant, although are keeping the house in top condition?

Not totally sure, but I think in those circumstances you can have a six month 'holiday', and only pay 20%.

jaysay 30-12-2008 15:50

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 664276)
thats one of the main things i despise about conservative mentality, (i got money, i want to keep it n pay sod all):rolleyes:

Cashy my friend, Conservative is with a capital C if you please good sir:D

jaysay 30-12-2008 15:56

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 664289)
Before Thatcher introduced the Poll Tax, the precursor to the Council Tax, local authorities could each decide what discount second/third home owners had to pay. The average paid, of the whole rateable value, was about 30-50%.

I know when I moved back to Ossy in the 80's I still had a property on mortgage, in Hassy, if I remember rightly, in those days if the house was unoccupied there had to be no furniture in that property in order to pay zero rates.

cashman 30-12-2008 16:10

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 664320)
I know when I moved back to Ossy in the 80's I still had a property on mortgage, in Hassy, if I remember rightly, in those days if the house was unoccupied there had to be no furniture in that property in order to pay zero rates.

thats the way it was, don't know if its still the case.:) i know one that used to move the furniture upstairs, so the snoops wouldn't see it, he was a tory by the way.:D

jaysay 30-12-2008 16:33

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 664323)
thats the way it was, don't know if its still the case.:) i know one that used to move the furniture upstairs, so the snoops wouldn't see it, he was a tory by the way.:D

:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:Is Rindi writing your script cashy

Gordie 31-12-2008 14:37

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 664219)
Wonder if Gordon pays 90% on Chequers:D:rolleyes:

I

jaysay 31-12-2008 14:47

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordie (Post 664589)
I

:confused::confused::confused::confused: anybody else mystified, can't remember any one editing a one letter post before

SPUGGIE J 31-12-2008 14:59

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordie (Post 664589)
I

I thought it was invisible. :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused:

Gordie we are now more confused than Geordie Bush. What was the rest of the remark?????

garinda 31-12-2008 20:41

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 664591)
:confused::confused::confused::confused: anybody else mystified, can't remember any one editing a one letter post before

Perhaps he was going to post 'I have a dream....', in the manner of Martin Luther King, but then woke up.

Or start singing 'I believe for every drop of rain that falls...'

It's a

garinda 31-12-2008 20:42

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 664770)

It's a

Damn. Now I'm d

jaysay 01-01-2009 09:47

Re: Politics.
 
See that our Gordie has not been back to answer the question, maybe he was going to write Islam then got cold feet:D

SPUGGIE J 01-01-2009 10:41

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 664861)
See that our Gordie has not been back to answer the question, maybe he was going to write Islam then got cold feet:D

Or his head explode as he tried to find a few retorts. :s_boom:

:hesoff:

blazey 02-01-2009 00:37

Re: Politics.
 
I reckon he probably retaliated and then thought it was a bad idea so edited it.

jaysay 02-01-2009 09:03

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by blazey (Post 665092)
I reckon he probably retaliated and then thought it was a bad idea so edited it.

If that was the case he could just have deleted the post;)

Taggy 03-01-2009 09:31

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 665102)
If that was the case he could just have deleted the post;)

Ahh....but where would the mystery be then!!!;)

Best Regards - Taggy

jaysay 03-01-2009 09:40

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Taggy (Post 665488)
Ahh....but where would the mystery be then!!!;)

Best Regards - Taggy

Probably in Gordies mind Taggy:D

blazey 03-01-2009 13:16

Re: Politics.
 
You can't delete the post if somebody responds but you can edit... I think...

jaysay 03-01-2009 13:34

Re: Politics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by blazey (Post 665579)
You can't delete the post if somebody responds but you can edit... I think...

Ya your right blazey, on another site I use, think its 247, you can delete a post in edit mode, thought it was on here but I was wrong, sorrrreeeee;)


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