This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Funeral Pyres for Hindu's or anyone should never be allowed in the UK.??

BBC NEWS | England | Tyne | High Court to hear pyre challenge

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

lol i suppose if they can keep the body until nov 5th they could get away with a sneaky one


the way things are going with our economy though we may find this way cheaper

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Well to me Roy its another case of when in Rome as far as I'm concerned, people know that when they come to better their lives in this country, they will have to make changes to that way of life, if they want to carry on with their customary funerals, then there are plenty of planes leave from Heathrow, Gatwick, and Manchester to take them back to their country of origin and carry on with their customs there:rolleyes:

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

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Errr when did religion run to the same boundaries as political nations. If it could be done in a reserved way with no disruption to others why not? Sometimes i find people are intolerant for no reasons other than because it doesn't fit in their pretty view of the world.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

wouldnt they be breaking some kind of pollution law:confused:im not bothered as long as they dont scrounge of the state to pay for it...:)

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

I can just see Joan of Ark turning in her Urn.:hehetable

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Bahahaha :D

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

No political or race or religous argument from me, I just think it is in very bad taste! And what if the body isnt burned completely? just let the widlife finish it off?

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

There could be a business opportunity here Derek. Supplying gas burners.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

honestly don't give a stuff about this one, if its in a designated secluded area as the guy wants, whats the beef wi that.?:confused:

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Kind of agree with you .... a funeral is a common enough rite de passage (I think Levi Strauss came up with that one when he wasn't designing jeans) ... the form it takes isn't really relevant ... It's hard to avoid some sort of ritual at the passing of a loved one; and I don't think it is ok to interfere with saying goodby to a life ... and this, it's just a form of cremation. I have avoided the whole deal by donating my remains to Queen's University School of Medicine (they will be particularly intrigued by my liver:eek:).

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

For me it is a legal thing. If the law says you can't do it then when they did they should have been prosecuted.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

If the court set a precident on this case.....what next? and where next?

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Everybody should be allowed to be buried or cremated in whatever way they want. What is wrong with a burial pyre - it's just the same as being wheeled into the furnace.

I realise it's against the law at the moment, but why should it be the law?

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

No problem with it myself, I just wonder if people would have objected so much if it had been any other religion, didn't the Vikings go in for something similar?

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

we can't even burn coal on our fires..... and I get into trouble for burning garden waste...... is this Britian or What.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Yep....on a boat pushed out to sea.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Is it not a Hindu custom as well? I always thought that the fire was to set free the spirit to freely move to the afterlife without anything in the way. Seems to me that in the oven the spirit cant bbe freed in the way people want it to. :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

I think this may well be an interesting thread to the owners of Clitheroe Auction Market who were fined several thousand pounds for burning cardboard boxes in a specially built furnace.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

I don't want to have to close my windows to avoid inhaling the smoke from human bodies...notice I said bodies, because in hindu practice they tended to chuck on the widows and concubines too to keep the blaze going well:rolleyes:

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Well now you have gone and made it a racial issue, they (the asian community), in the main, dont use gas engineers, they just break the law and do it themselves! :eek::rolleyes:

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Margaret you have hit the nail on the head.
How many white vans would be in line to dump rubish onto the pyre before it goes out.
Beats the hell out of Fly Tipping or dump tax.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Derek............I'ts not a racial issue I'ts a social issue. If they want to carry out traditions according to the religion they follow then return to the country where that tradition was introduced.
They did it anyway to test the water and the police said it was not in the public interest to prosecute....who came up with that gem?

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

I’m on the side of when in Rome.

If the Hindus or anyone else wants to follow their religion’s burial rights and they clash with the law of the land let me point them to the nearest airport.

Not in the public interest Royboy39 is a euphemism for we don’t want to be accused of being racist. Or should that be religionist?

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

OK, now I've stopped giggling at accyman's first comment (it's been a quiet day), I can stick in my two-penneth.

For now, the practice must be forbidden as it clearly breaks the law. However, personally, I think this is a practice that we can learn to be tolerant of, provided we see a degree of compromise due to the series of issues raised so far.

The people who wish for this ceremony to be performed should make a case to the authorities, detailing how they can make it a) safe, and b) environmentally friendly (for people and surroundings) and press it. This kind of thing is what our democratic system is set up for, afterall. If they make such a case and if it is feasible, I for one would support it.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

that to me is spot on shaker, won't let me give ya karma though.:)

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Your narrow mindedness and zero tolerance of other people's religions and beliefs never ceases to amaze me; would you go and stand otside a crematorium with bags of rubbish? No. Even you couldn't be so crass.
And before you get on your high horse Roy, the fly tipping in Spain is far ,far worse than anything we see here.
People should have right to choose how their remains are disposed of, as long as it's not affecting anyone else's health, what is the problem?
No one is suggesting it's gonna be in Margaret's garden or that we all have to go and watch; older generation eh? You are setting a great example of tolerance and respect, well done!:eek:

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Whilst its against the law its wrong to do it, however the law is not written in stone and is up for discusssion. IF they can provide a suitable place where their beliefs can be accomodated without inconvienience to others then I would support it.

Not in the Public interest to me suggests someone applied some common sense.

to me teh following quote is teh important one

In my eyes what he is applying for is to open an open air crematorium. no more no less, at the end of the day the smoke is piped up out of the chimney at Burnley road and dependant on the wind ends up blowing all over accy anyway, what difference does it make that its from an indoor oven as opposed to an outdoor one.

In fact, I would venture so far as to say I would prefer to be done on an outside one myself rather than some indignity of being just another cadavar to be burnt at some point well after my family have seen me disappear through the curtain to the words that they commit me onwards in what spiritual journey I end up on( if there is one at all for you non believers) when in reality its just to line me up with whoever else happens to be going through the same day.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Why do you think I will get on my high horse, as you put it?
It seems that you were more in the mood for a rant than me.:)

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Permission been refused:-

BBC NEWS | England | Tyne | Devout Hindu loses cremation bid

Common sense prevails.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Pity really, they could have gone a traditional step further back and thrown the surviving spouse onto it as well.
Sahagamana from the Chapter "Grhasthasrama", in Hindu Dharma : kamakoti.org:

No I don't really mean such a cruel thing should happen again, I'm trying to point out that it was one traditional part of a funeral pyre that changed, which means that the other part could surely be changed to using a crematorium without the 'soul' of the dead person being compromised.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

personally I feel sorry for him and whilst its not my religion i would happily support him in his choice of funeral. He stated that he would be happy for it to be in a place far from residential and urban development.


Tolerance costs nothing.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Not it doesn't entwisi, but every time we give way its just another nail in the coffin of our own British culture, why should we have to change our rules to accommodate other people who want to settle in this country, I'm sorry but its time we said enough is enough

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

it don't n it begins with tolerating the customs n laws of the country you choose to live in.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

I know a few British Hindu's, so how is religion linked to nationality exactly? The fact that we have some silly laws in this country based on religion shows that - e.g. catholics not allowed to become Monarch. Where and when did catholisism become so dangerous that we can't have one as King/Queen?

Why did Tony Blair feel he had to be CofE whilst PM but as soon as he was free of that shackle he became Catholic straight away?

This request nothing to do with "British" culture and all to do with Religious tolerance.

Cashy, laws are transient and subject to change hence this guys attempts to do so and in that attempt I happen to support him. Based on the fact that he is prepared to consider other peoples views and make it as invisible to those who don't want to know about it as he can he is being tolerant of those people why can't they be tolerant of him?

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

i disagree ian, i lived abroad n never considered asking the spanish to change their ways, though i strongly disagree wi some of em, simply put it was their country their rules n customs, i chose to live there.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

But you were "English" living in Spain, not "Spanish" as this guy is "British" living in "Britain" its a different ball game

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

OK this 'Brit' challenged the law as we are all entitled to do and lost.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

I don't get how this is changing your rules and culture to accommodate other people.

People go on about this sort of stuff all the time - how it's diminishing our culture or our religion. It's NOT! They're not asking you to have a burial pyre at your funeral, they're asking if they can. They're not asking you to change your religion, they're just asking if they can practise their own. They're not taking away from your culture, only you can do that.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

i disagree as i took residencia out, i doubt very much if that guy had/has applied to become a british citizen, what he seeks to do is abhorrent to many "British Citizens" n also illegal, strange i think fer once the powers that be have gone with what i perceive to be public opinion n you don't like it.:rolleyes:

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

He's been here since the 1970s according to the article......

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

yeh has he applied fer british citizenship?

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Never mind bonfires. Have you seen what they're complaining about now?

Queen’s Trinity Cross honour deemed unlawful by Privy Council - Times Online

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

No it isn't Ian sorry, people who came to live in this country and have a family, know what the rules are, irrespective of being born here. Hinduism ain't a native religion of Britain, we now have literally dozens and dozens of different nationalities living here, with many different religions, do we have to kowtow to everyone's religious wishes, its a matter of them adjusting to our laws not us changing ours to suite every body else's needs, and there's always the answer, we have airports all over the country within in easy access

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

You may have lived in Spain but did you live life exactly like a Spaniard. Did you eat Paella every night, did you go to Catholic Mass every week, did you speak Spanish day in day out?

I'm not saying you should have to do those things just because you were in Spain, btw. What I'm saying is that everyone is capable of holding on to their own identity and their own culture wherever they live in the world. Just because one person wishes to uphold his culture doesn't dilute anybody elses culture or beliefs.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Sorry Gayle you're wrong, burning bodies on an open fire is against the law of our land, so why should we change our laws to suit people who want to come and live here. If we keep changing our laws for every nationality with their own religion, who settle here, there will be nothing left of own culture, its already being eroded by the PC brigade who are prepared to recognise every religion except Christianity, and we see examples of this day in day out, unless we take a stand there will be nothing left of the Britain I grew up in, there is precious little as it is now

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

That 'nail in the coffin' garble sounds suspiciously - no, exactly - like BNP propaganda. I must've read it thousands of times among ignorant ramblings... really hope you're not one of them jaysay. :(

Sorry, back to topic. I sincerely hope Davender Ghai's petition has failed for reasons of failure to make the practice safe, rather than a lack of tolerance (or an abundance of fear) on the council's part.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

If the law was being changed so that everyone had to be put on a funeral pyre then yes, I'd object. But that's not the point. If 100 years ago people had wanted to have funeral pyres in England then the laws would have changed and we'd all have the option now - it's never come up before because we've done things the way that we do things for all these years.

The thing is that by allowing a religion to deal with their dead in one way doesn't mean that you have to change anything that you do personally.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Sounds very much like the thin end of the wedge to me.
Mark my words there is more to this than meets the pyre.(I mean eye).

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Where did that load of tosh come from?
Spaniards dont eat paella every night, Spain is a catholic country but 40% are not church goers apart from weddings and funerals and yes if you live in Spain you try to learn the language and use the language day in day out.
Spain is welcoming many people from many countries but if you do not toe the line and observe the laws of the country you are shown the departure gate.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Your first part I won't even dignify with an answer.
This is not about tolerance at all, I have no problem with people coming to live here, never have had never will, however, what I do have a problem with is we are being treated like second class citizens in our own country, we haven't to mention Christmas, its now Winter Festival, must upset other religions, Easter, well that was crossed of the Calendar a long time ago, kids can't have piggy banks, and as for golliwogs, God forbid.
Come here live your lives follow your religion, but within the laws of the land and without predigest to the indigenous population is not much to ask really

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

I was being facetious.

I was just trying to point out that you don't have to adopt the culture of a country completely and you can retain your own even if you live in another country.

When the British Empire was half the world we changed the way things happen in some countries - that was a takeover. This is not a request to change the laws so that they are Hindu, this is allowing Hindu's the opportunity to carry on their faith within our country.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

This is a challenge to the law of the land which was rejected.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

And I think it should have been allowed.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

What about this for a senario?

If the council of Muslims applied to erect a minaret in either Blackburn, Bolton or even Accrington with associated loud speakers for the Imams to call believers to prayer 6 times a day.............This is following a religion..........Would you accept or object?

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

On the one hand I do support everybody being able to follow their own religion if it doesn't affect anyone else. However, this could potentially affect other people so I can see why it would be refused.

Wasn't there a thing a while ago about someone having to silence bells on a church because of the noise (I think it was in some sleepy village), so if they have to silence church bells then I would have to say no, loud speakers shouldn't be allowed.

Good question.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Gotcha with that one Gayle didn't he:D:D:D

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

On a lighter note........I was in Malaya and The Imams started calling at 6.am.
There were 6 minarets on the same street all with loud speakers and competing for punters.........Being a sqadie at the time and partial to a drop or two suffering from what you might call a thumping skull after a good night out.
The sights and sounds of Malaya did not go down very well.
Would not, could not object, Muslim country.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

I'd hate to live in the country you live in, sounds terrible mate :rolleyes::D

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

I think you probably do but wont admit it.:rolleyes:;)

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

No, he hasn't! It's two different issues. And on the second issue I've said, I would probably agree.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

No intention to point score.....all comes under the banner of the thread title. :)

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

I just think we cannot go back in history and look how we British behaved then .. 'tis what it is in the present, and the law is the law in my opinion ... nowt to do with souls ascending to heaven. Would open the floodgates to all types of ceremonies.

I believe in re-cycling, so in my religion of green, I would like my body to be hung on the trees of Northumberland, so that our bird population can pick my juicy bits to keep the food chain going and my contribution to Mother Earth, so that I can be reborn in the Cycle of Life! ... I know, daft, but that is the way it could go.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

I think Lancashire birds would benefit from your tit bits Kate...Why Northumberland.?:D:D

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

'Cause that is where they were asking for the site for the pyres.

Was that a compliment ? .. LOL.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Owd on a bit..............I think probably yes. ;)

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

I am sure a few Lancashire blokes would benefit from nibbling Kates tit bits as well :rolleyes::D

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Heading up that way next week If you want a lift.:hehetable

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

unusual fer you to talk crap but ya have managed it this time.:rolleyes:

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Like you Katex I also believe in recycling and have always thought it would be better to let nature takes its course. Many many years ago I looked into this possibilty and was told in no uncertain terms that I could not have the type of funeral I would like. As I'm not religous, all I can have is the most environmentally friendly available funeral. Not a happy bunny.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

some of your post is total rubbish...tell me what law or regulation says we can't mention Christmas and have to call it "winter festival" ?...since when was Easter banned?... like Shakermaker I'm wondering what sort of fantasy land you live in!
As for people being allowed to have funeral pyres it is against the law of this land and unless the law is changed then courts have no other option but to enforce the law.... I would not have any problem with pyres if a siutable location could be found and designated for such funerals so long as that the maintainace and costs for the place was met by those who wish to use them.

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Just musing here .. would the Fire Brigade have to attend for Health and Safety like ? :D

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

That would never happen Mancie, a way would be found for the council tax payers to pay

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

Your only problem is you look at everything though either an alcoholic haze or a pair of red tinted glasses Mancie, whichever is your mood at the time. How many left wing council celibate very religious festival going except Christian, think you'll find a hell of a lot, which is quite often highlighted on the left wing BBC not The Daily Mail

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

ah yes your usual retort..is it me or is the last bit of that in latin?..can't understand a word of it!
as for alcohol, at least I can use that as a somewhat feeble excuse for the times I post rubbish...but what's your excuse? :D

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

I look at things through Blue tinted glasses:D

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

LOL, it wasn't my most coherent post ever, was it? Oh, well, at least I knew what I meant. :D

Re: This should never be allowed in the UK
 

The wonderfully Artistic world of Gayle Knight:D:D:D