One for cashy!
 

BBC NEWS | Magazine | In the red corner, Scargill. In the blue, Thatcher

Mmm, so Maggie wasn't so bad for teh mining industry after all.........................

:D

Re: One for cashy!
 

yeh right,read it all n majority of comments sum it up.:rolleyes:

Re: One for cashy!
 

so ignore facts and figures.. go with the comments made by tom dick and harry instead... typical..

Re: One for cashy!
 

I really don't see the point. The stats are irrelevant. All they show is the level of coal production. They say nothing about the confrontation between Thatcher and the miners. They don't address the questions surrounding police brutality; and in no way, shape or form do they turn Thatcher into a buddy of the working class, or Scargill into its enemy. Smoke and mirrors .... is all .....

Re: One for cashy!
 

Was a very dark period for many and 25 years down the line its easy to say that things wernt that bad. They can chuck all the facts and figures around but it makes no difference. Heres my take on that chart; could be based on the average per man and as there were fewer then yes it would look good. It would look higher as many were on the streets fighting for their livelyhoods against a brutal force determined to crush them.

Re: One for cashy!
 

those are the real facts, summat that fools choose to ignore.:rolleyes:

Re: One for cashy!
 

mm, so no Miners attacked Police cordons etc, You'll be telling me they were all angels next..........

IME fighting and accusations of brutality are rarely a one sided affair.

What about those who chose to work being intimidated by teh strikers? Did that not happen? or is your view of this piece of history so clouded that irrespective of evidenec you will never accept that it was a 2 way street.

Re: One for cashy!
 

As far as I remember, the violence was instigated by the police, and very likely with maggies orders, and imo was retaliation, as for working while on strike, isnt a union just that, all out at the same time? It is likely though that the ones who wanted to work, had realised that scargill had too much power, and that the writing was on the wall.

Re: One for cashy!
 

it wont be long before history re writes itself
and declares, that there never was a miners strike/confrontation in 84

Re: One for cashy!
 

no its not clouded at all, as someone who so quite a bit, due to personal involvement in helping families, summat someone like you would probably never entertain, i have what i consider n adequate picture of all that went on.:rolleyes:

Re: One for cashy!
 

why are you deciding what I would or wouldn't do? You simply don't know enough about me to say anything like that and I'm surprised at you for making such a remark.

was all violence started by the Police, of course not. the strike attracted and would always attract the thug minority just like the football crowds did in those days. It gave them an excuse to riot. We all watch things like Life on Mars and now 'laugh' at the seemingly non PC attitude but back then that attitude existed all over.

As for people who chose to work. faced with the choice of standing on a picket with my family starving, cold, etc or brewakinga strike that 'my' Union was making little effort to compromise would not be top of my list of things I give two hoots about.

It is common sense that in a dispute neither side will 'win' its just a matter of how much you need to sacrifice to get to a position of mutual acceptance. Scargil was out to make a name for himself on the pretence that he was doing it for his 'brothers'. Compromise was not in his vocabulary and ultimately it probably cost the mining industry more in lost employment, mines, output etc than a simple compromise up front would ever have done. Maybe the fact he came up against someone equally stubborn in Maggie was the reason this escalated so, we will never know as those times are past.

Re: One for cashy!
 

Sometimes riot ringleaders wear the same boots as the police - ponder that then:eek:

Re: One for cashy!
 

The miners strike of 1984 could have been settled long before it was. The miners and the coal board had come an agreement on settling the dispute on three separate occasions.

It was the then Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher who vetoed the deals.

Re: One for cashy!
 

Ponder it nope it is a tad to close to the truth methinks. As I was only a teen back then I wouldnt have picked up on that bit. Mind you if you could cross reference the number of arrests with the number charged then maybe just maybe there is something in that. Saying that though without names it would be hard and if the police were involved the info would be burried so deep it might never be found.

Re: One for cashy!
 

why would ya be suprised? i say as i see it right or wrong its that simple,n thats how i see it. Compromise to me, shows how little knowledge ya have about why the dispute happened, if it was about money, i could agree with you, but was nowt to do with money, it was about saving peoples lively hoods everyone is well aware scargill used the wrong tactics, what is beyond dispute is the guy was right, he even underestimated the job losses, what compromise can be in destroyed communities? please enlighten me.

Re: One for cashy!
 

Scargill chose to take on the Government of the day and lost.
Whole communities are being desimated now with job losses, without compensation. We hear of Members of this forum looking for and applying for jobs and falling at the first hurdle.
The miners strike has long gone, and yes I was round at the time.
I think our thoughts should on the current situation and the future whatever that may bring?

Re: One for cashy!
 

well sod off to another thread,n ya will find things like that, twas not me who started this thread, so why quote me? unless ya think its the boys together.:D

Re: One for cashy!
 

as that is a subject very close to my heart, as you are well aware since that conversation in the arden, why are you deciding what to try n wind me up with fer a laugh? as clive dunn says in "Dads Army".......... they dont like it up em!:D

Re: One for cashy!
 

I posted a link to independant stats that showed that contary to popular belief Maggies reign wasn't detrimental to coal output despite all the propaganda thats often spouted.

I know you are sensitive in this area but does that mean we should not discuss it? If that was the case AW would be an empty forum. It still doesn't give you teh right to decide and state openly what I would or wouldn't do, you were wrong to do that.

You know me, I don't 'wind people up' for fun. I do however feel that information and situations always have two sides to them and are up for debate. I'd also point out that a lot of AW members are too young to recall much if anything about this period in our History and by talking/debating their knowledge will be increased.

The age old saying is learn from your past.........

Re: One for cashy!
 

thats not a wind up? geez i must be losing it.:rolleyes: cant see any young members educating themselves on this yet.:rolleyes: plus there was also a thread on this very subject just lately. so if that aint a wind up or attempt at one, why not add yer comment to that. sorry do not buy it at all.

Re: One for cashy!
 

How miners' strike twice came close to being settled | Politics | The Guardian the compromise you speak of was there, not by hearsay, but released "Whitehall" papers n agreed upon, till the cow killed it stone dead.:(

Re: One for cashy!
 

Governments mess with history all the time. Even the Romans did it when they described us celts as barbarians.
It is all propaganda - best to believe those who witnessed it - and they can pass it on to the next generation.

Re: One for cashy!
 

perfectly true n the sensible thing IMHO, many choose not too though, some actually think they know more than those involved.:(

Re: One for cashy!
 

The miners went on strike in 1984 in protest against pit closures, which had been announced by the coal board. There were areas that weren't effected by the closures. But the communities that were effected were left devastated, and many have still not recovered.

The Tory Government of the time turned the dispute political, because they would not let the coal board find a settlement, that was acceptable to both the miners and the coal board.

The miners were essentially trying to protect jobs and also their communities. Thatcher wasn't interested, she wanted complete capitulation by the miners.

Re: One for cashy!
 

Thing is there is still lots of coal lying in many places which will at some time have to be sourced isn't there?