Originally Posted by Taggy (Post 704311)

Whilst posting on another thread, i started to ponder about Muslim Dress, more specifically Full Face Veils, Burka's and Hijab's. These forms of dress are now very common on the streets of Britain, however from my younger days, although i can quite clearly recall seeing many Asian women, i cannot ever recall seeing any in a Full Face Veil. Obviously there are more members of the Asian community living here now, so percentage wise one would expect to see more. But as i say, when younger i cannot recall anyone wearing them! Now, is that my memory and Brain cells hopelessly deteriorating? Can anyone recall when these garments started to be worn more widely on our streets, and assuming my memory is correct, why would it be that Asian women from earlier days, chose not to wear the Full Veil, have they suddenly become designer items, or is there a feeling that they want to make a bolder statement about their faith?

Best Regards - Taggy

Originally Posted by emzy (Post 704314)

Slight wander but do they make them take them off in places like banks, post offices, petrol stations etc like they do with people wearing motorbike helmets??

Originally Posted by mothernature (Post 704319)

No your memory is not playing tricks on you. I grew up in the 70's in a large Asian community and I cannot recall 1 Muslim woman wearing anything but a Sari sometimes with a scarf draped loosely over their heads. Whilst my children were growing up in the 80's & 90's we lived in the Audley area of Blackburn and even then I don't recall any female wearing the Hijab, etc. Thinking back I would have to say maybe they started wearing them in the late 90's around Audley.

Originally Posted by Royboy39 (Post 704334)

In Spain there are many Muslim women from all over the world.
I have never seen one wearing a veil.
Heads covered yes, but no veil.

Originally Posted by derekgas (Post 704377)

If your good lady sees that royboy, I am guessing a veil would be handy to hide the hand mark upside of your head! lol

Originally Posted by West Ender (Post 704444)

The practice seems to have become more widespread since 9/11. Personally, I would ban veiling in this country, it has nothing to do with Islam and is not advocated in the Koran. It's only a cultural thing and it doesn't fit in with the culture of this country.

Originally Posted by katex (Post 704501)

Well, most muslim women I have spoken to say that they have not been forced to dress this way, just 'want to'. Quite a few of husbands do not care one way or another.

Originally Posted by katex (Post 704501)

Well, most muslim women I have spoken to say that they have not been forced to dress this way, just 'want to'. Quite a few of husbands do not care one way or another.

Originally Posted by katex (Post 704501)

Well, most muslim women I have spoken to say that they have not been forced to dress this way, just 'want to'. Quite a few of husbands do not care one way or another.

Originally Posted by katex (Post 704511)

.... just feel that a lot of the muslim women are wearing them to make a point and stick their tongues out at us.

Originally Posted by katex (Post 704511)

No saying there may not be a few extremist cases as the ones you have enlighted us with, just feel that a lot of the muslim women are wearing them to make a point and stick their tongues out at us.

Daughter was doing a smear test the other month with lady in full gear, husband entered surgery and exclaimed 'What the (effin hell) you doing in all that lot' ! .. LOL.

Originally Posted by katex (Post 704511)

No saying there may not be a few extremist cases as the ones you have enlighted us with, just feel that a lot of the muslim women are wearing them to make a point and stick their tongues out at us..

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 704526)

thats just it! ya don't know ya can't see there bloody tongues.:D

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 704550)

It's a golbal fashion, in the sense that it isn't required. The Qur'an only makes mention of modesty in dress, but that applies equally to men, as well as to women.

Growing up in the seventies I didn't see any Muslim women wearing a burqas in this area, just women in brightly coloured saris, with their heads partly covered.

I recently listened to a radio programme which featured a female Egyptian professor. She said that until the early seventies Egypt, mainly the cities of Cairo and Alexandra, were pretty much like other cities on the other side of the Med. Women happily wore western clothes. Now 90% of women wear the hijab at least, and risk being attacked if not 'properly' attired in public.

Mind you I'm not feeling too kindly tonight to man's interpretation of the teaching of the world's holy men.

I've just sat through a two hour documentary about the 100,000 victims, that have come forward so far, of Catholic priests in the U.S.A.

The way this was covered up, often resulting in more children being raped and abused because the priests were just moved to other parishes, was sickening.

Ex-President Bush gave in to Vatican demands that the present Pope, who knew and did nothing positive about the asbuse, and granted him immunity from prosecution in the States. The Church in the U.S. has so far paid out 1 billion dollars to victims...after many a lengthy battle.

Much of the abuse was just ignored, especially if the victims raped were girls (even as young as nine months), because that was put down to 'natural curiosity'. They interviewed one of the priest, happily living freely back in Ireland, and being paid a pension by the church. His total lack of understanding of what he'd put these children and their families through made me sick.

Disillusioned with organised religion rant over now...back to the thread.

The Qur'an doesn't demand that women wear a burkha, but you could also say neither did Jesus make mention of Christian priests being celibate.

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE (Post 704529)

Just remembered I was taking my eldest grandaughter to Nursery and she is fourteen shortly and we passed a lady dressed in the full veil and my grandaughter asked me why "that lady was hiding"? So seems to me it is within the last ten years it has become the norm or why would a child of four comment?

Originally Posted by accyman (Post 704525)

it was ok to have her vagina seen but not her mush lol

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 704752)

This crossed my mind: I wonder what the sexually twisted freaks in the Taliban think when they see our women; free, equal, well educated, well armed, fighting along side our men, and often leading them, flying our military aircraft, serving on our warships (at least one of our ships, HMCS Halifax, is commanded by a woman, Cmdr. Josee Kurtz) ... it must really pee them right off.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 704550)

I've just sat through a two hour documentary about the 100,000 victims, that have come forward so far, of Catholic priests in the U.S.A.

Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 704821)

I also watched that docu... the worse thing is that the Vatican would not even recognise the victims of abuse... these people are just "people".. they are not directly in touch with any God..I may believe in God but I don't believe in the Catholic Church nor any Church ... the Ten Commandments seem fair enough..but many regulations that have been added by priests and so called gurus amount to making people bow to an agenda.. they are the regulations of human beings..not any divine instructions... and these so called instuctions from Popes or Ayatollahs to suit thier own ends mean nothing.

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 704843)

I'm a practising RC Mancie, and in someways you have a point, I'm not one of those people who thinks that everything that comes from the Vatican is right, especially in this day and age. I can't understand why the Vatican seem to condone abuse of this kind, its wrong in any language or culture. I also have a problem with the vatican's stance on contraception, I can see no point in bringing unwanted children into this world at the whim of people who make the rules but don't play the game. Maybe the answer to both these issues would be to allow married men to become priests, we are now in the 21st century, yet the catholic church remains in the dark ages, I think its time it moved with the times and the needs of a modern world

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 704876)

The film, or myself for that matter, wasn't having a go at Catholics, just the Catholic church as an organisation.

The victims and their families were Catholic after all, and many seemed doubly affected, for not only had their children been abused, but it was by someone they trusted, as God's representative on Earth.

In answer to Steelback, yes the victims were helped by lawyers. Nearly as many as the church had to block and hinder any justice that was being sought.

If you ever get to see the film watch it. It's called 'Deliver Us From Evil'.

Sorry for the thread wander, though there is a tenuous link.

Just as there's no mention in the Qur'an of the need to wear a burqa, that's man's later interpretation, there's no mention that priests need to be single and celibate.

Until the fourth century A.D. priests, even Popes could marry, and many were. It was only because the church wanted the estates of priests after their deaths, rather than any heirs, that the rules were changed.

If priests were allow to marry, perhaps it wouldn't be quite as easy for the priesthood to be a cover for serial child abusers.

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 704954)

If the Catholic Church won't allowed married priests there maybe no church left in a few years, very few people are now taking holy orders there have been very few ordained in the salford dioceses of late. Even so I can't condone the church for trying to cover up abuse for any reason let alone to save face, and I will keep a look out for the film Rindi.

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 704954)

I will keep a look out for the film Rindi.

Originally Posted by steeljack (Post 704562)

couple of points I want to make about this post ...

re. the Burqa, anyone who has done any travel to Saudi Arabia will tell you the same story , as soon as the seat belt sign goes out on planes leaving Jeddah and Riyhad there is a procession of 'burqas' into the toilets and 5 minutes later a procession of some of the most beautiful women you will ever see return to their seats, the opposite happens on flights into the Kingdom ....babes into the toilets, Burqas out .........one thing to note ..all these women have male companions , husbands /fathers/brothers etc. who seem to have no problem with the change.
All these folks subscribe to and live by the rules of Wahabi Islam when at home but it goes out of the window when they travel. Hypocrisy or not ... not for me to say. :rolleyes:

Re, the Catholic Church and "abuse" , the numbers being bandied about are just staggering/unrealistic , I'm just curious about a couple of points,
#1 , In cities like Boston , Philidelpia and NYC all cities with high Catholic populations and a high Catholic profile in Law enforcement (Irish cops and DAs) to know why nothing came out earlier since I'm sure lots of cops and DAs are ex alter boys .
Same applies to places like Dublin, sure most of the present day 'Garda' were alter boys at one time :confused:
# 2 (in the US at least) most of the lawyers who have been "Ambulance chasing" the Church for multi million dollar settlements all have names ending in 'stein' 'berg' and 'wietz'. not saying there is a conspricy but something smells :confused: :confused:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 705005)

You can watch a trailer for the film on the following link.

Deliver Us From Evil - Enter Site

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 704969)

wrong,i am thinking of taking me vows.:D

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 705215)

Spectacles, testicles, wallet and watch amen, arise Father Cashy:D

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 705350)

And we are to assume he has all these things, eh;):D

Originally Posted by den the menace (Post 704920)

a very good example of our open door policy is illustrated by a family of pakistani's in my street.................2 sons both sent "home" to pakistan and both return with a bride apiece. they have now produced son's, and will when they reach thier teens be sent back "home" again to bring 2 more brides to produce more kids, who no doubt will be sent back to bring another bride to produce more kids to send home etc etc etc.

you can see where this is leading to, but our political master's just dont get it/dont care, so when the time comes to vote you know who to vote for dont you?
dennis

Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 705479)

No..I don't know who to vote for..why don't you just tell us instead of posting riddles??

Originally Posted by accyman (Post 705482)

i think he was refering to teh BNP who although have an excellent imigration policy severly lack in other areas ie: common sense

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 705484)

may god strike me down fer saying this, but i would even vote TORY before voting fer thugs.

Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 705489)

there has been criticism of the Catholic church in some posts, including my own.. but I don't criticise Christianity itself...I reckon the big difference here is that I can question some aspects of Christian church without having the fear of God placed on me or being outcast by the community... not so in the Muslim faith... the pressure on induviduals to tow the line is massive..and in that respect I feel the Muslim faith is even more in the middle ages than Catholicism.

Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 705492)

same here..in the 70's ..to my shame I did attend a meeting of the then NF..it soon became clear that repatriation of "non British" was not the only option these people had in mind. "thugs" is a kind description Cashy.

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 705495)

i was actually once threatened fer refusing to go to one, big mistake.:D

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 705350)

And we are to assume he has all these things, eh;):D